Further endoctrination for the power and goodness of the federal govt.

Posted in the Stroudsburg Forum

Since: Sep 09

Effort

#1 Dec 27, 2012
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/27/why...

Interesting read, the federal govt selling itself to the school children of our country. A course I would really like to see would be titled 'How to seperate the BS coming out of politicians mouths when they talk and the truth'...
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#2 Dec 27, 2012
Unfortunately teachers are the most malleable segment of the professional class. They like things neat and no matter how militant they profess to be they prefer to see things as between the lines and the population lined up in alphabetical order.
Santa

Hunlock Creek, PA

#3 Dec 27, 2012
loose stool wrote:
Unfortunately teachers are the most malleable segment of the professional class. They like things neat and no matter how militant they profess to be they prefer to see things as between the lines and the population lined up in alphabetical order.
Yours is a pretty broad statement that I'm not sure I agree with nor do I see how your statement has anything to do with what fistv posted. I'm also not clear on your meaning. Are you saying that teachers will eagerly accept the new core standards as a good idea or not?

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#4 Dec 27, 2012
It's worth noting that school children are regularly subjected to the 'global warming' lie on a daily basis...still.

Just like my grade school days, except then it was 'global cooling' that was being pushed.

It's not hard to explain the direction of our country (bigger government, distrust of business, disdain for wealth) when one looks at what is being taught.

Hitler and his youth were spot on. Get 'em when young, and they will follow you anywhere.
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#6 Dec 27, 2012
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
It's worth noting that school children are regularly subjected to the 'global warming' lie on a daily basis...still.
Just like my grade school days, except then it was 'global cooling' that was being pushed.
It's not hard to explain the direction of our country (bigger government, distrust of business, disdain for wealth) when one looks at what is being taught.
Hitler and his youth were spot on. Get 'em when young, and they will follow you anywhere.
Be that as it may, one still needs to differentiate between state and federal mandated curriculum and the staff that is mandated to teach it.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#7 Dec 27, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
Be that as it may, one still needs to differentiate between state and federal mandated curriculum and the staff that is mandated to teach it.
True. However, the enthusiasm shown by (dare I say most) educators to follow the liberal party line of the moment is telling.

Reminds me of what my late dad said when I came home regurgitating the tales of the coming ice age:

"You know, you don't have to believe everything they tell you in school."
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#8 Dec 27, 2012
loose stool wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Santa it's time to make up your mind. Don't be wishy washy! What I'm saying is the nature of "teaching" is that of physical and mental order especially in the early grades. It's not so much "what" they teach, it's simply to teach them how to learn in order that they fulfill their societal obligation. Another brick in the wall, if you will. This new curriculum dovetails nicely because it sounds like it offers finite conclusions. No open-ended or provocative black holes that would lead to dangerous thoughts outside of the zero tolerance mandate. Would teachers be eager? Not necessarily eager, but they would be drawn to it because it would be predictable.
Due to the weather, Santa is stuck in Kentucky. He has asked me to reply:)

Evidence based outcomes are not specific to teaching so here again I'm not sure what point you're making. Yes, the nature of the suggested material affords testing based on finite conclusions. That's not to say teachers would choose the suggested readings for their lesson plans or hold the type of learning they measure above developing critical thinking skills. The latter is difficult to objectively measure thus prove. It's measurable criteria that the public and our public education departments demand as proof of accountability.

AQs for "in order that they fulfill their societal obligation", by they, do you mean teachers or students?
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#9 Dec 27, 2012
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
<quoted text>
True. However, the enthusiasm shown by (dare I say most) educators to follow the liberal party line of the moment is telling.
Reminds me of what my late dad said when I came home regurgitating the tales of the coming ice age:
"You know, you don't have to believe everything they tell you in school."
It would be interesting to know what our friend of the purloined letter would say about that.

I'm not and have never been a school teacher though I know many, including close family members. There is a lot I don't like about public education but I can't say you can group all teachers together as liberals. Also, any paid employee needs to follow the rules of the employer whether or not in agreement in order to stay employed. I don't see how you can fault teachers for following work rules necessary to maintain school funding.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#10 Dec 27, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be interesting to know what our friend of the purloined letter would say about that.
I'm not and have never been a school teacher though I know many, including close family members. There is a lot I don't like about public education but I can't say you can group all teachers together as liberals. Also, any paid employee needs to follow the rules of the employer whether or not in agreement in order to stay employed. I don't see how you can fault teachers for following work rules necessary to maintain school funding.
I had a business course teacher back in high school who was the only overt Republican teacher I ever knew (my school choices notwithstanding...lol). While certainly not all educators should be afforded the misfortune of being labelled a liberal, it seems true more often than not.
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#12 Dec 27, 2012
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a business course teacher back in high school who was the only overt Republican teacher I ever knew (my school choices notwithstanding...lol). While certainly not all educators should be afforded the misfortune of being labelled a liberal, it seems true more often than not.
I can't agree. I know many conservative teachers and at least one fundamentalist christian teacher that has difficulty teaching evolution but does so anyway. That particular teacher has never had a problem with a church not accepting a tithe derived from teaching against church doctrine. People do what they need to do to keep a job. You need to eat before you can go to heaven:)

I also know many teachers who are gun owners and vigorous defenders of the second amendment. From what I know of your positions, anti-gunowners are also grouped into your "known liberals" category. That is neither here nor there in re: mandated curriculum, but hopefully points out the fallacies in generalizing.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#13 Dec 27, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't agree. I know many conservative teachers and at least one fundamentalist christian teacher that has difficulty teaching evolution but does so anyway. That particular teacher has never had a problem with a church not accepting a tithe derived from teaching against church doctrine. People do what they need to do to keep a job. You need to eat before you can go to heaven:)
I also know many teachers who are gun owners and vigorous defenders of the second amendment. From what I know of your positions, anti-gunowners are also grouped into your "known liberals" category. That is neither here nor there in re: mandated curriculum, but hopefully points out the fallacies in generalizing.
Point taken, but generalizing/stereotyping/prof iling does have legitimate uses.

http://animal.discovery.com/mammals/skunk/pic...
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#15 Dec 27, 2012
loose stool wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike the rest of you I'm busy for a few hours so I don't have time to entertain all you Obama phone Takers for a while.
No problem, loose. Don't work too hard. As for the phone takers you mention, I know you can't mean me. And Santa couldn't vote because he couldn't register as he had nothing to prove citizenship. Apparently no license is needed to fly a sleigh.

TTYL
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#16 Dec 27, 2012
loose stool wrote:
<quoted text>
How this discussion has gone from mandated curriculum to arguing about semantics is beyond me but what the hell. Any "generalization" is nothing more than a tool to expedite a discussion. If you don't agree with a generalization that's fine but you seem to be arguing against using any generalization at all. Yet you counter with personal knowledge of exceptions to the generalization as if it weighed equally. Are you saying that teachers are not liberal "in general" because you know some that aren't or because you know some that aren't liberal no generalization to the contrary can be made. This borders dangerously on slushism, a narcissistic bottom feeding veneer thin philosophical affectation. No?
loose- if you remember this started with my observation that what fistv posted had nothing to do with your initial response re teachers. If you want, we can go back there. How does your response correlate to the original topic?
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Dec 27, 2012
The article is about a curriculum that could be devoid of the likes of “1984,”“Animal Farm” and “Brave New World.”

"No need for kids to be reading those books, anyway. They’ll be living them."
(last line in the story).

I concluded, based on my personal opinion the following:
loose stool wrote:
Unfortunately teachers are the most malleable segment of the professional class. They like things neat and no matter how militant they profess to be they prefer to see things as between the lines and the population lined up in alphabetical order.
You asked
Santa wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that teachers will eagerly accept the new core standards as a good idea or not?
Well yes?
Granted my response is not narrowly on topic but tangential.I simply chose to enlarge the discussion to something I'm more interested in. How this new curriculum will fit neatly into an already highly controlled and intellectually smothering environment. I don't understand how you fail to see the correlation other then your refusal to accept any generalizations.
lotta

Hunlock Creek, PA

#18 Dec 27, 2012
loose stool wrote:
The article is about a curriculum that could be devoid of the likes of “1984,”“Animal Farm” and “Brave New World.”
"No need for kids to be reading those books, anyway. They’ll be living them."
(last line in the story).
I concluded, based on my personal opinion the following:
<quoted text>
You asked
<quoted text>
Well yes?
Granted my response is not narrowly on topic but tangential.I simply chose to enlarge the discussion to something I'm more interested in. How this new curriculum will fit neatly into an already highly controlled and intellectually smothering environment. I don't understand how you fail to see the correlation other then your refusal to accept any generalizations.
Well, I have to give you points for being honest and bonus points for going back and actually reading the article. I wasn't sure you had before commenting.

I still think you've failed to make your case. After all educators and "literacy" experts (which I'll go out on a limb and assume are also teachers) are cited in the article as in disagreement with the "literary genius of Washington bureaucrats".

I've been unable to locate any federal core standards online or any that mention the exemplars noted in this opinion piece. That doesn't say anything more than I couldn't find them. I did find exemplars from this organization http://www.corestandards.org/ And each state seems to have their own adaptations.

If you're really interested in suggested curriculum standards, look at the exemplars they list in appendix C in the language arts section.

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/Appendix_... .

You might come away feeling a little less discouraged:) I hope so because you seem unusually down my friend. I understand how hard work can do that:)

In closing, I'm going to give you heck for yelling at jeff and me for going off on a tangent in your absence while you were working hard. s Since when do you get to the final say on which tangent is worth discussing here LOL? Or justify getting uppity because you have to work when others don't? Slushian? Narcissitic? Really??? As Jeff might say, HA!
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#19 Dec 28, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text> HA!
agreed Pilgrim

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#20 Dec 28, 2012
ambler

Stroudsburg, PA

#21 Dec 28, 2012
states with state-wide curriculum like FLA, TX and LArank dead last in educational quality, while states like Vermont and NH, which as virtually no state mandates, rank among the highest.

The conclusion is crystal clear to me: the further away from local control of education you get, the worse the product.

Small neighborhood schools will out-perform their larger cousins most of the time.

And they are actually cheaper----fewer admin needed and far less disciplinary trouble.

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