Blaming Israel for carnage

Most media outlets aren't providing news of Israel's barbaric air raids on Lebanon with fairness and integrity. Read more

Since: Jun 12

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#114118 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't want justice. If you did you would call for the imprisonment of the majority of the Palestinian leaders for incitment, violence, terrorism, etc.

.
What about your seventh prime minister Shamir? Not only was he a terrorist but a coward

What about Begin? The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. Just two examples showing that there was terrorism of both sides what is disputed is the reason for it. These are just two examples So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.

Since: Jun 12

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#114119 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
You claimed it was illegal when its not, no?
Ovadiah Yosef was considered an extremist by governments, media, orgs. Suddenly when it suits the Pro-Palestinian this person becomes a moderate so that his words can be used to imply that its normal in Israel.
???? He was an extremist Jew. many of the people who you follow are self hating Jews.
As for the minority sect Jew you are in denial. I am part of the Jewish nation and have spent much of my life amongst them. It can be easily verified that the majority of Orthodox Jews are Zionist and it is sects such as Neturei Karta (tiny group of Jews who stand with Judaisms enemies), and Satmer.
You deny the facts without even checking, but the fact is it is the Ultra-Orthodox Jews who are sometimes anti-Zionist on different levels. I grew up amongst the Orthodox you speak of and they are most Zionist of them all.
Then why as a democratic country did Israel find it necessary in 1977 to bring in an anti-proselytizing law. I'll tell you why because it is not a Democracy but an Ethnocracy end of story.

At the end of the day it wouldn't matter who I suggested. your hasbarat handbook book would give you an excuse to find something wrong with them

Since: Jun 12

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#114120 Jan 8, 2014
Footnote:

1.The Knesset passed Israel's anti-missionary law in 1977 on Christmas day so it would be perfectly clear against whom it was directed.

2. Anti-missionary law 5738-1977. Strictly speaking, "proselytizing" under this law involves a gift, no matter how small (such as a tract) given to a Jew by a Christian. Under Israeli law it is a crime to "give or promise money, the equivalent of money or any other material benefit in order to entice a person to change his religion." Yet, realistically, the word "proselytizing" is much more loosely interpreted. As a case in point, evangelical Christians showed a film about the second coming of Christ in Jerusalem's largest hotel, the Shalom. This outraged Israel's chief rabbi, Yitzhak Kolitz, who forbade them to further "proselytize." However, the manager reassured the Christians that "they are welcome if they do not violate the law." (Jesus Film Stirs Hotel Row, "Jerusalem Post, International Edition, Oct. 16-22, 1983, p.5)

Such ambiguity keeps Christians in Israel on edge, vulnerable to accusations that they "violate the law." Speaking in defense of evangelicals, Charles Kopp, chairman of the "United Christian Council in Israel," says such Christians "do not engage in proselytizing." ..."We do not give out leaflets in the streets or witness at our jobs." ("Friendly Strangers in our Midst," Jerusalem Post, International Edition, May 25, 1991, p.2)

The government remains suspicious - and anti-Christian. Daniel Rossing, head of the Department of Christian Churches for the Israel Ministry of Religious Affairs, summarized his government's position:

"The government, by all available means, discourages missionary activity." (Christian Missionary Activity in Israel Under Fire," L. A. Times, Part I, March 8, 1984, p.8)

http://www.truthtellers.org/hate%20crimes/pro...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114121 Jan 8, 2014
Christians Discriminated Against by Israel

By Donald Neff

Former Israel Bureau Chief for Time Magazine
Excerpted from Fifty Years of Israel

On Dec. 29, 1977, Christians in Israel and the occupied territories protested a new law passed by the Israeli parliament making it illegal for missionaries to proselytize Jews. Protestant churches charged that the law had been “hastily pushed through parliament during the Christmas period when Christians were busily engaged in preparing for and celebrating their major festival.” The law made missionaries liable to five years’ imprisonment for attempting to persuade people to change their religion, and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. The United Christian Council complained that the law could be “misused in restricting religious freedom in Israel.”

Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. He is the author of five excellent books on the Middle East.

Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering of “material inducement” for a person to change his religion. A material inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible.

Although the Likud government of Menachem Begin assured the Christian community that the law applied equally to all religions and did not specifically mention Christians, the United Christian Council of Israel charged that it was biased and aimed specifically at Christians since only Christians openly proselytized. Council representatives also cited anti-Christian speeches made in the parliament during debate on the law. Parliament member Binyamin Halevy had called missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation.”

The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate, issued a religious ruling that copies of the New Testament should be torn out of any edition of a Bible owned by a Jew. Israeli scholar Yehoshafat Harkabi wrote that he was disturbed by “these manifestations of hostility-the designation of Christians as idolaters, the demand to invoke the ‘resident alien’ ordinances, and the burning of the New Testament.” Observed Harkabi:“Outside of the Land of Israel Jews never dared behave in this fashion. Has independence made the Jews take leave of their senses?”

Read more at:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/rel-ch...

Since: Jun 12

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#114122 Jan 8, 2014
Looks like Zioni has disappeared to do some more research as she doesn't have the answers in her hasbarat book

Since: Jun 12

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#114123 Jan 8, 2014
Yep it seems that Rabbi Ovadia Yoseph was such an extremist that nearly a million people attended his funeral !!!!!

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef buried in largest funeral in Israeli history
800,000 attend last procession for revered leader of Sephardi Jewry; 300 require medical treatment — but no serious injuries… and one birth; worried police chief had feared disaster as crowds swelled; public figures send condolences, recall a giant of Jewish thought

By Gavriel Fiske October 7, 2013, 5:15 pm Updated: October 7, 2013, 9:21 pm

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-closes...
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114124 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
What about your seventh prime minister Shamir? Not only was he a terrorist but a coward
What about Begin? The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. Just two examples showing that there was terrorism of both sides what is disputed is the reason for it. These are just two examples So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.
We are talking about today and the current Palestinian leadership who call for the extermination of Israelis, end of Israel, supply arms funds and training for terrorism against Israeli civilians.

You refuse to condemn the current Palestinian leadership, and refuse to accept that these people are not interested in peace and admit to being terrorists.

The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist, supported numerous Arab massacres against Jews on the land during the Mandate.
The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist are paying the salaries of mass murderers being released by Israel on good will, they also pay for the hatred in Palestinian schools, and fund numerous organizations who advocate the destruction of Israel. So not the best example.

So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.

I have never denied that Zionists carried out terrorist attacks, they even carried out attacks against their own. You are the one who denies it was the Arabs who began the attrocities on the land against the indigneous Jews.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114125 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
We are talking about today and the current Palestinian leadership who call for the extermination of Israelis, end of Israel, supply arms funds and training for terrorism against Israeli civilians.
You refuse to condemn the current Palestinian leadership, and refuse to accept that these people are not interested in peace and admit to being terrorists.
The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist, supported numerous Arab massacres against Jews on the land during the Mandate.
The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist are paying the salaries of mass murderers being released by Israel on good will, they also pay for the hatred in Palestinian schools, and fund numerous organizations who advocate the destruction of Israel. So not the best example.
So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.
I have never denied that Zionists carried out terrorist attacks, they even carried out attacks against their own. You are the one who denies it was the Arabs who began the attrocities on the land against the indigneous Jews.
Don' tell me what I have and haven't done Zioni. The fact that you haven't read any of my posts were I condemn them is your problem not mine. I came on this forum to discuss why I think Israel is at the heart of the current problem. If I wanted to discuss what the Palestinians have done I would do that on a different forum
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114126 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why as a democratic country did Israel find it necessary in 1977 to bring in an anti-proselytizing law. I'll tell you why because it is not a Democracy but an Ethnocracy end of story.
At the end of the day it wouldn't matter who I suggested. your hasbarat handbook book would give you an excuse to find something wrong with them
So one distorted example for you is enough to state "end of story"?

More assumptions. Not sure how anyone can call Ovadia Yosef moderate by any means but another example of your ignorant arrogance.

For someone who continuously posts from anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish websites and writers it is you using a anti-Jewish handbook from Grey and CO, Stormfront, VeteransToday, and so on.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114127 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
Looks like Zioni has disappeared to do some more research as she doesn't have the answers in her hasbarat book
I am working so have other things to do but I generally try to research as much as I can unlike you who seems to have no problem continuously posting Opinion pieces.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114128 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
We are talking about today and the current Palestinian leadership who call for the extermination of Israelis, end of Israel, supply arms funds and training for terrorism against Israeli civilians.
You refuse to condemn the current Palestinian leadership, and refuse to accept that these people are not interested in peace and admit to being terrorists.
The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist, supported numerous Arab massacres against Jews on the land during the Mandate.
The same British who labeled Begin a terrorist are paying the salaries of mass murderers being released by Israel on good will, they also pay for the hatred in Palestinian schools, and fund numerous organizations who advocate the destruction of Israel. So not the best example.
So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.
I have never denied that Zionists carried out terrorist attacks, they even carried out attacks against their own. You are the one who denies it was the Arabs who began the attrocities on the land against the indigneous Jews.
..and yet it was those terrible British who allowed the Jews to make a homeland in Palestine. The Jews were the ones who created the hostilities by taking land that was not their to take. The British could see the effect that the Jews were having on the indigenous population and that is why the curtailed further immigration by the Jews. This pissed the Jews off who retaliated by attacking the British.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114129 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
Yep it seems that Rabbi Ovadia Yoseph was such an extremist that nearly a million people attended his funeral !!!!!
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef buried in largest funeral in Israeli history
800,000 attend last procession for revered leader of Sephardi Jewry; 300 require medical treatment — but no serious injuries… and one birth; worried police chief had feared disaster as crowds swelled; public figures send condolences, recall a giant of Jewish thought
By Gavriel Fiske October 7, 2013, 5:15 pm Updated: October 7, 2013, 9:21 pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-closes...
I never denied that people attended his funeral or considered him a religious master. I know many people who were at the funeral.
Doesn't deny the fact that he is an extremist. I am actually agreeing with many Jew haters who would agree with me on this.

I tell you what, why don't you look up a few quotes of his and then tell me he is a moderate.

Maybe earlier in his life he was moderate but in my adult life all I heard from him was extreme comments.

THis shows that I am willing to accept reality even when it goes against the "Zionist/Jewish Agenda".

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114130 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
So one distorted example for you is enough to state "end of story"?
More assumptions. Not sure how anyone can call Ovadia Yosef moderate by any means but another example of your ignorant arrogance.
For someone who continuously posts from anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish websites and writers it is you using a anti-Jewish handbook from Grey and CO, Stormfront, VeteransToday, and so on.
So you can't answer the question as to why a "democracy" would have this kind of law? I didn't think so

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114131 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
I never denied that people attended his funeral or considered him a religious master. I know many people who were at the funeral.
Doesn't deny the fact that he is an extremist. I am actually agreeing with many Jew haters who would agree with me on this.
I tell you what, why don't you look up a few quotes of his and then tell me he is a moderate.
Maybe earlier in his life he was moderate but in my adult life all I heard from him was extreme comments.
THis shows that I am willing to accept reality even when it goes against the "Zionist/Jewish Agenda".

You missed my point which was that nearly 1/5th of the Israeli population attended his funeral plus or minus a few visitors. I don't call that an extremist person in the eyes of the Israeli people. From my point of view the fact that he harassed Christians in the way that he did makes him no hero of mine
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114132 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Don' tell me what I have and haven't done Zioni. The fact that you haven't read any of my posts were I condemn them is your problem not mine. I came on this forum to discuss why I think Israel is at the heart of the current problem. If I wanted to discuss what the Palestinians have done I would do that on a different forum
As usual you change the subject instead of condeming Abbas and Co who are terrorist leaders responsible for hundreds of murders of Jewish civilians for just being Jewish.

The same leadership who said:
If they had nukes they would use them on Israel.
No Jews allowed in Palestinian State.
Refugees will not be given Palestinian citizenship as they will be used to finish off Israel (Read PLO Phased Plan).
Abbas funded the Munich massacre amongst others and incites violence and hatred towards Jews and Israel on a regular basis.

So are you refusing to condemn them here???
Hypocrite.

So you consider Israel at the heart of the problem when the fact is its about Jews. If Palestine was Muslim there would be no issue.

You don't want to discuss but want to tell.

You never commented on the fact that the Palestinian lie on a regular basis about attrocities. Why do you ignore the Jenin "massacre" where your Jewish Global Media, so called Human Rights orgs called a small battle a massacre by Israel? It never happened but you don't like to admit that the Palestinians get caught making things up on a regular basis to incite hatred towards Israel; this is perpetuated by people such as yourself, HRorgs, Media governments and so on.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114133 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
I am working so have other things to do but I generally try to research as much as I can unlike you who seems to have no problem continuously posting Opinion pieces.

...and yet I post and you are instantly here.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114134 Jan 8, 2014
I must away as I need to do some grocery shopping before we move on on Friday
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114135 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
..and yet it was those terrible British who allowed the Jews to make a homeland in Palestine. The Jews were the ones who created the hostilities by taking land that was not their to take. The British could see the effect that the Jews were having on the indigenous population and that is why the curtailed further immigration by the Jews. This pissed the Jews off who retaliated by attacking the British.
Back to basics.

The British did everything they could to stop Jews from having a viable homeland in W.Palestine.
First they created Jordan on the majority of Palestine.
They gave land meant for Jews to Arab immigrants.
They restricted Jewish immigration from 1921, and refused entry for Jews escaping from the Holocaust.
They did nothing to stop numerous Arab massacres against Jews on the land, even supporting them in some cases.
They went against the Mandate according to League of Nations officials at the end of the 1920's.

Can you name anything the British did to allow the Jews a homeland in W.Palestine (not including Balfour)? Since you claim they did so much, shouldn't be hard to prove.

If according to you the Jews retaliated when the Brits curtailed Jewish immigration why did it take a decade for this retaliation??

You really like to create your own reality. I have already proven that it was the Arabs who started the violence before all of the above.

Since I have been here you have never shown any evidence of Jewish theft of Arab land which led to the Arabs starting hostilities.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114136 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
You missed my point which was that nearly 1/5th of the Israeli population attended his funeral plus or minus a few visitors. I don't call that an extremist person in the eyes of the Israeli people. From my point of view the fact that he harassed Christians in the way that he did makes him no hero of mine
When it comes to religion I find many in Israel extreme, even the non-practicing.

Many Israeli ridicule his words but when it comes to the Sephardi religious community in Israel he was their leader.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114137 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
...and yet I post and you are instantly here.
I only usually have the time during the night so if you check I only comment at a certain time of day. I also disappear for days here and there. I also only comment on the Israel forum so not as much to look at.

I wouldn't have the time if I continued this for a few months.

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