Blaming Israel for carnage

Blaming Israel for carnage

There are 121920 comments on the Fort Worth Star-Telegram story from Jul 22, 2006, titled Blaming Israel for carnage. In it, Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports that:

Most media outlets aren't providing news of Israel's barbaric air raids on Lebanon with fairness and integrity.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Uzi

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114101 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care who I sound like. You need to deal with it. I haven't spread any lies and if you are not Israeli then I would like to know what your state is in the matter. I became involved in the matter when studying the OT.What I blamed Israel for was intimidating people,killing people and destroying people's homes and property that didn't belong to them when they immigrated to Palestine.This was increased in the lead up to the declaration of Israel as a state where they made a concerted grab for as much land as they could get/take. They took this land without the consent of the inhabitants already there. You state that most left without ever seeing a soldier but that is not true as the people who survived will tell you.Israeli soldiers themselves have also stated this was not the case and actually boasted about their exploits. I would prefer to believe an eyewitness as to one that was not there at the time. So it seems that many people are liars. Eyewitnesses, Israeli soldiers, historians they are all wrong and Israel is always right
You post like it is always Israel who is the victim when the reality is that this is not the case. Most of the media is owned by Jews and they manipulate it to suit their own agenda which includes trying to debunk what actually happened. In Israel there is even a person who says who can and can't get married in Israel since when did that represent a democracy?
I have never denied the holocaust nor blamed the Jews for it happening. My German teacher was in one of those camps and had a number tattooed on her arm as proof she was there.
I used a statement by Goebbels which I felt was appropriate for Israel It in no way was a comparison between Germany and Israel..Although Israel did carry out many atrocities
Like I stated I will post on what I see fit and when. End of story
hitler jr the female type is vomiting her muslim nazi lies and complete bullshit here. Very few people believe what u post here except idiots of ur kind. End of ur story. End of Englandistan is coming too but it should make u happy. The bitch from Englandistan and the proud owner of English Gibraltar and English Falkland Islands cause we know that both "belong" to Englandistan and her queer Queen. Pathetic shit.
Uzi

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114102 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Danetoo I don't hate Israel with a passion because I have an opinion different from yours. I disagree with their actions in relation to obtaining a state and the way that they went about it. That doesn't mean I hate all Jews who are living in Israel or the rest of the world. Many Jews agree with my point of view and deny that Ertzl Israel is what is documented in the bible. If you chose to take my comments the way you do then so be it. I have defended Israel on many occasions that you now seem to forget.
Hello nazi shitstain, how u doing with Gibraltar and the Falkland Island among other places that U so conveniently ha ha "obtained"????? hahahaha hahahahha nazi shit.
Uzi

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114103 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
So above there is denial that the Jews are the ancient Jews.
Denial that there was a continuous albeit small Jewish community continuously in places such as Jerusalem, Hebron, Tzfat, Gaza for thousands of years.
the large majority of Orthodox Jews are the biggest Zionists of them all. You are confusing them with the hareidi community of which some of the sects are anti-Zionist based on Religion not on Justification or Legalities.
when I started speaking to you, you made claims of objectivity, claims of saying things which support Israel, and looking for the truth, also not a Jew hater. Since then you have blamed the Jews for everything in the region, have no interest in the truth if it comes from a Pro-Israel person, you believe in the Jewish control conspiracy theory even though the facts point to otherwise, deny Modern day Jews are Jews, and more often than not post from Neo-Nazi and Antisemitic websites.
Yep, in other words , she is full of shit.
Uzi

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114105 Jan 8, 2014
Woody wrote:
The largest Dutch pension fund company, PGGM, has reportedly chosen to withdraw all its investments from the five largest Israeli banks, whose branches are involved in financing construction in the settlements in the West Bank.
Over the past few months the Dutch pension giant has informed some of Israel's top banks, such as Bank Hapoalim, Bank Leumi, Bank Mizrahi-Tefahot, the First International Bank of Israel and Israel Discount Bank, that their ties with the settlements, and/or companies involved in construction there, were an obstacle from the standpoint of international law, a source told Haaretz.
So?? See if I care , we are flooded with Chinese American $$$$ investments among other countries. So?????

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114107 Jan 8, 2014
The state of Israel discriminates against me negatively, it deprives and neglects me, consigns me to the economic, social and political margins.... The state doesn’t show an interest in what I think or feel, or in what I am willing or able to contribute.... To my great regret, the Israeli Jews still have not internalized the significance of the far-reaching consequences of the brutal fact that the Palestinian Arabs within the borders of the state, and beyond, are the indigenous inhabitants of this land, and as such, their rights in this place are not subject to denial or appeal. The indigenous Palestinians of this land were not engaged as the temporary custodians of the land for hundreds of years until the Jews would return to it and push them aside.
(Zeidani, 2005:89–90)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114108 Jan 8, 2014
The Zionist movement was a colonial venture that began in Europe in the late 1800s with the goal of establishing a Jewish state in Pal¬estine. It was based on the premise that Palestine was a territory that belonged exclusively to the Jewish people due to their presence on the land during biblical times. The Zionist colonial project portrayed Palestine as a “land without a people, for a people without a land”(see Masalha, 1997).

Early Zionists viewed the Palestinian Arabs as a non-European, inferior “other”(Masalha, 1997). For these Zionists, the overwhelming number of Palestinian Arabs in the future Jewish state represented a significant obstacle to their quest to establish a sovereign state of their own.

A promi¬nent Zionist leader at the time, Israel Zangwill, wrote in 1920:
If Lord Shaftesbury was literally inexact in describing Pal¬estine as a country without a people, he was essentially correct, for there is no Arab people living in intimate fusion with the country, utilizing its resources and stamp¬ing it with characteristic impress; there is at best an Arab encampment.(quoted in Masalha, 1997:62)

Such pronouncements by leading Zionists promoted the notion of an empty territory—empty, as Masalha explains, not in the sense of actual absence of inhabitants, but rather of a “civilizational barren¬ness.” This notion of empty territory was then used to justify Zionist colonization and the delegitimization of the native population as a people belonging to that particular place (Masalha, 1997; Prior, 1999).

Making this fictional depiction of the country a reality required considerable effort from Zionist leaders, as at the time of the First Zionist Congress in 1897, the Palestinian Arabs, who constituted 95% of the population, owned and cultivated most of the country’s ara¬ble land. In contrast, Jews made up only 5% of the population and owned 1% of the land (Prior, 1999:190). In 1930, Britain’s High Com¬missioner for Palestine, John Chancellor, recommended the total sus¬pension of Jewish immigration and land purchases to protect Arab agriculture, as all the arable land—then in possession of the indig¬enous Palestinians—could not be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators (Masalha, 1992; Quigley, 1990:19). This was also true of the Naqab Desert in southern Palestine, which was inhabited and extensively cultivated by Bedouin Arabs, despite the popular Zionist imagery of the Jewish immigrants “making the desert bloom.” By the mid-1940s, the Naqab’s Bedouin Arab population was estimated at 65,000 to 95,000, organized into 95 semi-nomadic tribes (Falah, 1989; Marx, 1967; Yiftachel, 2003), while the Jewish popula¬tion in the Naqab consisted of 475 persons, living in four settlements (Prior, 1999).

To be continued

http://www.geog.bgu.ac.il/members/yiftachel/n...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114109 Jan 8, 2014
Given extensive Arab presence in Palestine and the need to maintain
European and international support for the Zionist project, the
leaders of the Zionist movement publicly claimed that the rights
of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine would be protected and
upheld. At the same time, they strove to achieve a Jewish majority by
promoting Jewish immigration to Palestine and sought to bring about
the removal or transfer of Palestinian Arabs from the territory of the
future Zionist state.

This Zionist ideology of transforming the people, the land, and the
character of Palestine into a Jewish state has played, and continues to
play, a defining role in shaping Israeli policies and institutions. One
of the last remaining frontiers to be settled, according to the Zionist
ideology, is the Naqab Desert in southern Israel, which makes up 60%
of the total land area of Israel but contains only 8% of its population
(Yiftachel, 2006). The Bedouins continue to represent an anathema to
the Zionist colonization project.

To be continued tomorrow
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114110 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
In relation to part of your quoted text:..
You state that Israel is one of the most democratic countries in the world that you know of so can you explain why they enforced a law in 1977 which prohibits proselytizing Jews.
...
The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate.....
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2012/nea/2...
2012 Report on International Religious Freedom: Israel and The Occupied Territories

"Proselytizing is legal for all religious groups. A 1977 law prohibits offering a material benefit as an inducement to conversion. It is also illegal to convert a person under 18 years of age unless one parent is an adherent of the religious group seeking to convert the minor. Despite the legality of proselytism, the government generally discourages proselytizing and encourages the popular perception that it is illegal."

Ovadia Yosef was considered and extremist not a moderate, no? trying to portray extremists as moderates, interesting.
Your article makes a number of mistakes

I have seen Christians preaching a number of times, I believe Jews for Jesus have a harder time here.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114111 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>..
A: No of course not we are talking about 60 years ago and the Zionists knew exactly what they were doing. Some are still alive today and should be made accountable for their actions. It is impossible to bring to justice what people did who are already dead
The same with Germans because of Hitler or Venezulans because of hiding Nazis and working for chavez.
A: They are being brought to justice as we post
..... Germans have paid billions to apologize to Jews,....
A: Shows how smart we are in Australia and yet the politicians are still condemned by the likes of Zioni because some are against Israel.....
But you don't claim the same for Arab terrorists. You probably support the mass murderers being released in Israel.

Europe has given back a small fraction of what the Jews owned before the war.

Which Australian Politicians did I condemn? Was it the ones who falsly called Gaza a concentration camp???
Again putting words in my mouth. You can be against Israel but to spread lies and incitement is another matter. You seem unable to deferentiate between rational critism and antisemitism (double standard when it comes to Israel).

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114112 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2012/nea/2...
2012 Report on International Religious Freedom: Israel and The Occupied Territories
"Proselytizing is legal for all religious groups. A 1977 law prohibits offering a material benefit as an inducement to conversion. It is also illegal to convert a person under 18 years of age unless one parent is an adherent of the religious group seeking to convert the minor. Despite the legality of proselytism, the government generally discourages proselytizing and encourages the popular perception that it is illegal."
Ovadia Yosef was considered and extremist not a moderate, no? trying to portray extremists as moderates, interesting.
Your article makes a number of mistakes
I have seen Christians preaching a number of times, I believe Jews for Jesus have a harder time here.
I have already posted what you are saying so why are you repeating it? An inducement can include the offering of a bible so I don't see your point. The law still exists and is a prime example of ethnocracy as opposed to a democracy. You always have an excuse it is either a self hating Jew, a minority sect Jew and now a you are claiming an extremistJew. The fact is they are all Jews so yes it is interesting.
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114113 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
It fascinates you that people want justice for others regardless of their connection with Israel? That they are wasting their time in voicing their opinion?Because Israel knows it all?? How arrogant you truly are to think that Israel is not in the middle of and not part of the reason that the middle east is in the situation it is in. I suppose it is easier to bury one's head in the sand, blame the Arabs for everything, use Christians as partners when the reality is that you don't even allow proselytizing in your democratic Israel re Christianity and where you don't listen to the concerns of the everyday lay person.
You don't want justice. If you did you would call for the imprisonment of the majority of the Palestinian leaders for incitment, violence, terrorism, etc.

You clearly have a problem with Jews (who you deny are even Jewish) so don't try to play the justice card.

How stupid you truly are to believe Jews control the media, governments. Yes Israel is probably part of the reason that the middle east is in the situation it is in, but who said it would be any different without Israel, You on the other hand blame everything on Israel.

Another example of someone who should read their own posts. don't blame the Arabs for everything but you blame the Jews for everything.

proselytizing is not illegal as is quoted in the US report on Religious Freedom 2012 I posted above. A prime example of how you would buy into anything which attacks Israel without verifying it.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114114 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
But you don't claim the same for Arab terrorists. You probably support the mass murderers being released in Israel.
Europe has given back a small fraction of what the Jews owned before the war.
Which Australian Politicians did I condemn? Was it the ones who falsly called Gaza a concentration camp???
Again putting words in my mouth. You can be against Israel but to spread lies and incitement is another matter. You seem unable to deferentiate between rational critism and antisemitism (double standard when it comes to Israel).
No in fact I don't. The fact that Israel released them shows how desperate she is to try and provide an example of good will. She has failed in that respect and is stupid to have let out the mass murderers.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114115 Jan 8, 2014
BTW you and nutjobs are using the same handbook. You have quoted verbatim what he has said with no reference to where your statements came from
In post 114055 you state you are not an Israeli. "Firstly I am not Israeli so have no say in policies, secondly I have never claimed that Israel is perfect"
You are a Jew and live in Israel so as a citizen you have the right to vote by applying for citizenship
In Post 114055. You state you were born a Jew and your internet provider shows you are posting from Israel and you yourself have stated you live among the conflict
Interesting to say the least

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114116 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't want justice. If you did you would call for the imprisonment of the majority of the Palestinian leaders for incitment, violence, terrorism, etc.
A: and yet who is it who is letting them out of prison if not Israel?
You clearly have a problem with Jews (who you deny are even Jewish) so don't try to play the justice card.
A: No I have a problem with Zionists and how they dispossessed the rightful indigenous people from their land
How stupid you truly are to believe Jews control the media, governments. Yes Israel is probably part of the reason that the middle east is in the situation it is in, but who said it would be any different without Israel, You on the other hand blame everything on Israel.
Another example of someone who should read their own posts. don't blame the Arabs for everything but you blame the Jews for everything
A: How stupid you are if you think they don't
.
proselytizing is not illegal as is quoted in the US report on Religious Freedom 2012 I posted above. A prime example of how you would buy into anything which attacks Israel without verifying it
A:..and yet that is not what Israel itself states so why try and use America when you claim they do not support Israel
.
You don't want justice. If you did you would call for the imprisonment of the majority of the Palestinian leaders for incitment, violence, terrorism, etc.
A: and yet who is it who is letting them out of prison if not Israel? What about the Israeli prime ministers who also headed teams of murderers for the sake of establishing a Jewish Ethnocracy and yet it has the hide to call itself a democracy.
You clearly have a problem with Jews (who you deny are even Jewish) so don't try to play the justice card.
A: No I have a problem with Zionists and how they dispossessed the rightful indigenous people from their land
How stupid you truly are to believe Jews control the media, governments. Yes Israel is probably part of the reason that the middle east is in the situation it is in, but who said it would be any different without Israel, You on the other hand blame everything on Israel.
Another example of someone who should read their own posts. don't blame the Arabs for everything but you blame the Jews for everything
A: How stupid you are if you think they don't
.
proselytizing is not illegal as is quoted in the US report on Religious Freedom 2012 I posted above. A prime example of how you would buy into anything which attacks Israel without verifying it
A:..and yet that is not what Israel itself states so why try and use America when you claim they do not even support Israel. You amuse me somewhat with your acrobatic contortions
Zioni

Kfar Saba, Israel

#114117 Jan 8, 2014
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already posted what you are saying so why are you repeating it? An inducement can include the offering of a bible so I don't see your point. The law still exists and is a prime example of ethnocracy as opposed to a democracy. You always have an excuse it is either a self hating Jew, a minority sect Jew and now a you are claiming an extremistJew. The fact is they are all Jews so yes it is interesting.
You claimed it was illegal when its not, no?

Ovadiah Yosef was considered an extremist by governments, media, orgs. Suddenly when it suits the Pro-Palestinian this person becomes a moderate so that his words can be used to imply that its normal in Israel.

???? He was an extremist Jew. many of the people who you follow are self hating Jews.
As for the minority sect Jew you are in denial. I am part of the Jewish nation and have spent much of my life amongst them. It can be easily verified that the majority of Orthodox Jews are Zionist and it is sects such as Neturei Karta (tiny group of Jews who stand with Judaisms enemies), and Satmer.

You deny the facts without even checking, but the fact is it is the Ultra-Orthodox Jews who are sometimes anti-Zionist on different levels. I grew up amongst the Orthodox you speak of and they are most Zionist of them all.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114118 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't want justice. If you did you would call for the imprisonment of the majority of the Palestinian leaders for incitment, violence, terrorism, etc.

.
What about your seventh prime minister Shamir? Not only was he a terrorist but a coward

What about Begin? The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. Just two examples showing that there was terrorism of both sides what is disputed is the reason for it. These are just two examples So don't be the one to throw the first stone or it will come right back at you.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114119 Jan 8, 2014
Zioni wrote:
<quoted text>
You claimed it was illegal when its not, no?
Ovadiah Yosef was considered an extremist by governments, media, orgs. Suddenly when it suits the Pro-Palestinian this person becomes a moderate so that his words can be used to imply that its normal in Israel.
???? He was an extremist Jew. many of the people who you follow are self hating Jews.
As for the minority sect Jew you are in denial. I am part of the Jewish nation and have spent much of my life amongst them. It can be easily verified that the majority of Orthodox Jews are Zionist and it is sects such as Neturei Karta (tiny group of Jews who stand with Judaisms enemies), and Satmer.
You deny the facts without even checking, but the fact is it is the Ultra-Orthodox Jews who are sometimes anti-Zionist on different levels. I grew up amongst the Orthodox you speak of and they are most Zionist of them all.
Then why as a democratic country did Israel find it necessary in 1977 to bring in an anti-proselytizing law. I'll tell you why because it is not a Democracy but an Ethnocracy end of story.

At the end of the day it wouldn't matter who I suggested. your hasbarat handbook book would give you an excuse to find something wrong with them

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114120 Jan 8, 2014
Footnote:

1.The Knesset passed Israel's anti-missionary law in 1977 on Christmas day so it would be perfectly clear against whom it was directed.

2. Anti-missionary law 5738-1977. Strictly speaking, "proselytizing" under this law involves a gift, no matter how small (such as a tract) given to a Jew by a Christian. Under Israeli law it is a crime to "give or promise money, the equivalent of money or any other material benefit in order to entice a person to change his religion." Yet, realistically, the word "proselytizing" is much more loosely interpreted. As a case in point, evangelical Christians showed a film about the second coming of Christ in Jerusalem's largest hotel, the Shalom. This outraged Israel's chief rabbi, Yitzhak Kolitz, who forbade them to further "proselytize." However, the manager reassured the Christians that "they are welcome if they do not violate the law." (Jesus Film Stirs Hotel Row, "Jerusalem Post, International Edition, Oct. 16-22, 1983, p.5)

Such ambiguity keeps Christians in Israel on edge, vulnerable to accusations that they "violate the law." Speaking in defense of evangelicals, Charles Kopp, chairman of the "United Christian Council in Israel," says such Christians "do not engage in proselytizing." ..."We do not give out leaflets in the streets or witness at our jobs." ("Friendly Strangers in our Midst," Jerusalem Post, International Edition, May 25, 1991, p.2)

The government remains suspicious - and anti-Christian. Daniel Rossing, head of the Department of Christian Churches for the Israel Ministry of Religious Affairs, summarized his government's position:

"The government, by all available means, discourages missionary activity." (Christian Missionary Activity in Israel Under Fire," L. A. Times, Part I, March 8, 1984, p.8)

http://www.truthtellers.org/hate%20crimes/pro...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114121 Jan 8, 2014
Christians Discriminated Against by Israel

By Donald Neff

Former Israel Bureau Chief for Time Magazine
Excerpted from Fifty Years of Israel

On Dec. 29, 1977, Christians in Israel and the occupied territories protested a new law passed by the Israeli parliament making it illegal for missionaries to proselytize Jews. Protestant churches charged that the law had been “hastily pushed through parliament during the Christmas period when Christians were busily engaged in preparing for and celebrating their major festival.” The law made missionaries liable to five years’ imprisonment for attempting to persuade people to change their religion, and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. The United Christian Council complained that the law could be “misused in restricting religious freedom in Israel.”

Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. He is the author of five excellent books on the Middle East.

Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering of “material inducement” for a person to change his religion. A material inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible.

Although the Likud government of Menachem Begin assured the Christian community that the law applied equally to all religions and did not specifically mention Christians, the United Christian Council of Israel charged that it was biased and aimed specifically at Christians since only Christians openly proselytized. Council representatives also cited anti-Christian speeches made in the parliament during debate on the law. Parliament member Binyamin Halevy had called missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation.”

The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate, issued a religious ruling that copies of the New Testament should be torn out of any edition of a Bible owned by a Jew. Israeli scholar Yehoshafat Harkabi wrote that he was disturbed by “these manifestations of hostility-the designation of Christians as idolaters, the demand to invoke the ‘resident alien’ ordinances, and the burning of the New Testament.” Observed Harkabi:“Outside of the Land of Israel Jews never dared behave in this fashion. Has independence made the Jews take leave of their senses?”

Read more at:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/rel-ch...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#114122 Jan 8, 2014
Looks like Zioni has disappeared to do some more research as she doesn't have the answers in her hasbarat book

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