Police arrest anti-war protester, 80, at mall -- Crimes, Iraq W...

[Scott]

ALL ANTI WAR PEOPLE CLOSE TO THAT MALL SHOULD HAVE A BIG SIT IN THERE ON THEIR BUSIEST DAY!

[Scott]

Run262 wrote:

<quoted text>
Quit guessing. Mall management has been upheld in courts for dress codes and banning anti-abortion protesters in the past. This was a lawful arrest, but I wish it was handled better by everyone those involved-esp the 80 yr old.

Lawful does not make it RIGHT! It was at one time lawful for such a mall to not allow black people in it. What is the difference? There should be a MASS sit in at that mall... I wish I did not live on the other side of the country..I would organize it if I lived close. ANY MALL doing that in this area would have to accept a loss of shoppers... NO person against the war should shop there.

I would pick the day after Thanksgiving and hold a big sit in!
Maybe the next time someone has on a harmless T-Shirt management might think twice before "legally" removing them.

Some things are worth getting arrested for... FREE SPEECH... yes even on "private" property such as a PUBLIC mall is one of those things.

[TomIslander]

Lyric wrote:

Is Freedom so removed from our country that a Tee-shirt will result with an arrest? Does any FREEDOM loving person see something wrong with this ?? I do . This makes me very sad for the state of our nation. We spew freedom yet ... a tee shirt that shows how many people have died for { freedom } will result in arrest. Some thing is very wrong here folks. The mall has a right to ask a person to leave if they like, but on the other hand people do Not have to shop there. I would take my money else where.

You whacky libs. You cry "freedom of speech!" in this case but he's one of your own. But if someone says Obama's middle name, they're being racist, and freedom of speech is thrown to the wayside because it doesn't fit your agenda. Or when students stormed the stage when the head of of the Minutemen Project spoke at Columbia, you labeled them as "brave and bold," and again freedom of speech didn't come into play, because it didn't fit into your agenda. If I wasn't so concerned that your sending this country towards disaster, it would be comical.

[Libs Suck]

George Warmonger wrote:

I hope he sues them for false arrest and violating his constitutional rights.
REVOLUTION is the SOLUTION!!!

I hope that somebody stomps his liberal head in!

[hydratwo]

Libs Suck wrote:

<quoted text>
I hope that somebody stomps his liberal head in!

So much for free speech in America according to George the chickenhawk.

[Deet]

I wonder how many REAL crimes went unpunished and how many real criminals went uncaught because the police were exercising their authority hassling some 80 year old guy! Police must be scared to confront real criminals so they look for the old and infirmed to hassle and arrest!

[Run262]

The police were answering a 911 call from management. The mall staff as well as cops exhausted all attempts of negotiation. An arrest was the last recourse.

I still wish it was handled better, but it ain't the cops fault gramps was tough to deal with.

[Lyric]

TomIslander wrote:

<quoted text>
You whacky libs. You cry "freedom of speech!" in this case but he's one of your own. But if someone says Obama's middle name, they're being racist, and freedom of speech is thrown to the wayside because it doesn't fit your agenda. Or when students stormed the stage when the head of of the Minutemen Project spoke at Columbia, you labeled them as "brave and bold," and again freedom of speech didn't come into play, because it didn't fit into your agenda. If I wasn't so concerned that your sending this country towards disaster, it would be comical.

Wow, So I'm a wacky lib?? Why because I love FREEDOM??? Hum, I dont see in my post any mention of freedom of speech , or the Minutemen project, or any agenda I allegedly have. If people wish to discuss Obama's middle name why should I care?? Why would you say that makes someone a racist? What does his middle name have to do with anything?? What does his middle name have to do with the job at hand? Has this country ever held someone's middle name as such an issue? There are more important things to address dont you think? And in closing , just so you know, I did not agree with the students storming the stage as the head of the Minutemen Project spoke at Columbia. I like the Minutemen . And as per your notion that I am the one sending this country twards disaster, look in the mirror, I'm not a liberal, I'm an AMERICAN

[cat and friends]

Scott wrote:

<quoted text>
Lawful does not make it RIGHT! It was at one time lawful for such a mall to not allow black people in it. What is the difference? There should be a MASS sit in at that mall... I wish I did not live on the other side of the country..I would organize it if I lived close. ANY MALL doing that in this area would have to accept a loss of shoppers... NO person against the war should shop there.

A mall that didn't allow black people in it? Doubt that. Perhaps in the '60's you had restaurants and bathroom and hotels-they couldn't vote either...but fast forward...A MALL?
I would pick the day after Thanksgiving and hold a big sit in!
Maybe the next time someone has on a harmless T-Shirt management might think twice before "legally" removing them.
Some things are worth getting arrested for... FREE SPEECH... yes even on "private" property such as a PUBLIC mall is one of those things.

A mall that didn't allow black people in it? Doubt that. Perhaps in the '60's you had restaurants and bathroom and hotels-they couldn't vote either...but fast forward...A MALL?
I've said it before. don't protest at a Mall with teenyboppers and mall rat mama's...go to a college campus-we have enough of them on Long Island.

[cat and friends]

Libs Suck wrote:

<quoted text>
I hope that somebody stomps his liberal head in!

Angry and Ignorant !

[hydratwo]

So what ever happened to this so called threat to society? Has he been released? Is there a court date?

[George W Bush]

hydratwo wrote:

So what ever happened to this so called threat to society? Has he been released? Is there a court date?

My friends,

It has been determined that this man was a threat to National Security. Therefore, he has been sent off to Gitmo in an attempt to extract whatever it is he knows through the use of any means at our disposal.

You should know that if you wear a t-shirt, or any shirt, similar to the one he was wearing, you, as well, will be considered a threat and will be treated the same.

[mike]

charged with criminal trespassing and resisting arrest.Thats BS!Everyone on both sides of the war issue should have gone into a full blown riot over his arrest.Who wants to side with a police state?

[Charles Rosaly]

You see? Now what if that guy would have pulled out a gun and defended himself? Not just too shoot and cold blood murder the Mall guards or the police. But, if he did. They would have provoked their own demise.
And, for what?
A disturbing tee-shirt?
I wish no one harm. But I understand what motivates some violence in this country. Our constitution is almost gone! What follow is going to be ugly. We are all used to our freedoms and will most likely fight for them back when it becomes obvious to more people as time passes.

[lefty lucy righty tighty]

Mike Thomas wrote:

<quoted text>
Yet another HE-MAN who went to another lied about war and is now a tough guy and also an authority on politics
When will you bone heads get it You are not protecting my rights and freedoms in some far off land like Iraq We were tricked into this conflict one of many that has been going on my whole life and I am tired of hearing this same mantra over and over again
What did Vietnam promise?? Stop the spread of communism DID THAT HAPPEN??? NO WE NOW BUY ALL OUR PRODUCTS FROM WALMART MADE IN CHINA!!!!! and the Chinese finance our current war
How sad this world has become

Anybody wishing to respond to Mike's pablum stained rants may want to give him a call:

six three one-three nine five-zero four five zero

Thomas, Michael
181 Park Dr
Mastic Beach, NY 11951

[Arnold]

Peter Straw wrote:

Lets hear it for the most democratic country in the world, scared to death of an 80 year old church deacon.
Way to go Georgie Porgie.

ha ha! note to UK, NZ, and 51st state Canada posters -- no one cares what you think! you are mere satellites or de facto states of the US. you have no influence in the world and no foreign policy that anyone knows about, so your posts require no replies.

[hydratwo]

"ha ha! note to UK, NZ, and 51st state Canada posters -- no one cares what you think! you are mere satellites or de facto states of the US. you have no influence in the world and no foreign policy that anyone knows about, so your posts require no replies."

And yet you seem to feel the need to reply! Seems like some in those countries you name have more concern for freedom of speech that the lost cause GOP types in the USA.

[James Glanz]

NYT reporter James Glanz is a fantastic reporter. In today's paper, p. A10, he reports on the fighting Wednesday in eastern Baghdad "across the Shiite enclave of Sadr City" killing Iraqi and US personnel, locally. While, meanwhile, in Washington DC on Capitol Hill at an Armed Services committee hearing Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was insisting, civilian security has improved. Senator Edward Kennedy sought clarification. Secretary of Defense Gates repeated his view. But the reporting by Mr. Glanz described what was really the situation in Iraq and the experience of the people: fighting, bomb attacks and volleys of rockets into the Green zone American and Iraqi government complexes. "In his testimony on Tuesday, General Petraeus said American forces had gained control of many of the places in Baghdad where he said Iranian-made 107-millimeter rockets were being fired. Associated Press reported that an Iraqi judicial committee had ordered the release of one of the association's photographers, Bilal Hussein. He has been held since the United States military detained him nearly two years ago and accused him of activities related to terrorism. Since then, the military has repeatedly said that Mr. Hussein, who shared a Pulitzer Prize in 2005, was involved in such activities." Mr. Glanz' article ends this way: "The United States military said Wednesday that five more American soldiers had died but that two of the deaths were not related to combat. The military's statement on the losses said that three soldiers had been killed by "improvised explosive device" attacks, generally meaning roadside bombs. One of the deaths occurred in northeastern Baghdad, one east of the capital and one in Salahuddin Province." The ICRC report on the humanitarian situation in Iraq 3/17/08 asks that cluster munitions be redressed by treaty. Not mentioned by Mr. Gates this week. Nor also were charges investigated by the FBI into misadministration of military coordinated responsibilities under the oversight of the SIGIR Mr. Stuart Bowen. Which is the point of the hearing, to learn what is the basis and the knowledge of the leadership, that of Secretary Gates, to inform with Admiral Mullens, the committee.

[hydratwo]

This third article also gives the dates of the court date. Seems like a logical response should be some support for those activists that live near there and also to shop elsewhere unless you like anal security guards.

Update on Smith Haven Mall action: Letter from woman arrested
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Click here for info on how to send financial support to the two demonstrators facing charges.

The Wilderside editors were proud to be at the Smith Haven Mall “4,000 Soldiers/One million Iraqis” peace demonstration. We were on the “sidewalk team” and did not go into the mall. Though, we support our colleagues who are facing legal problems for wearing a t-shirt at the shopping center which proclaimed simple truths about war and peace on it. The two people arrested were Don Zirkel and Susan McKeon-Steinmann.

We will keep our wilderside readers posted on ways to help. We were excited to receive the message below as a comment from Susan McKeon-Steinmann:

Dear Wilderside and Friends,

I was the other person arrested and I have a few comments on this wonderful action. Sometimes we get caught in the here and now by physical and temporal boundaries without realizing the interconnectedness of what we do.

Because of this action of over 250 people outside the mall, and dozens inside protesting there is now an international debate about free speech in “private spaces” not only in this country, but also in England. I googled protesters arrested at Smith Haven Mall and found ten pages of blogs on which there are thousands of comments discussing what we did.

The t shirt which says 4000 troops dead,1 million Iraqis, and Enough on the other side has been seen by practically everyone who watches the news on Long Island.

Nancy Dwyer,a Pax Christi member and one of our wonderful peace movement activists was on Channel 12.

People are questioning the New York State law which is different from California or New Jersey which has determined malls to be public places.

The war and protest against it is being discussed by thousands of people who were not doing so before.

For over half an hour, twenty or so of us, young and old read the names of the dead publically and got some support from shoppers, but we stood our ground and withstood several arrest warnings. We moved outside our comfort zone in the name of peace and justice. Saving lives was presented as a higher issue than commerce.

This was a classic civil disobedience action. Like the lunchcounter struggle in the sixties it moved far beyond what any of us expected because it took on a life of its own.

Don and I go to court on May 22nd. My hearing for criminal trespass is at 8:30 and Don’s for criminal trespass and resisting arrest is at 2 pm. I hope the peace movement will spend the day trying the war itself and come to the court to support us. We will meet outside in the parking lot before hand as we did for John Phillips hearing.

We are a package deal. Come to support us both since what has been proven is that an issue whose time has come is stronger than fear or money.

To all the wonderful people who bravely stood outside and in, and to the readers of names of the dead, thank you for giving me the strength to be arrested. Without you, I could not have done it.

Much love,
Susan McKeon-Steinmann

[Wake up NOW]

Thank You Suzan