Fourteen police officers receive recognition for OWI arrests

More than a dozen police officers are being honored for keeping the community safe, and getting drunk drivers off the streets. Full Story
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#1 Apr 26, 2008
How many innocent people were pulled over and had their 4th amendment rights trampled in the process? Our society continually invites greater levels of authoritarianism in exchange for a false sense of security. Now, no hasty retorts until you can tell me what the 4th amendment says, and how it is obviously related to traffic enforcement. I doubt that the bulk of you know more than a fragment of the Bill of Right. Speaking of which, I wish people were as excited about the important Rights, and not just the one that lets them own a 50 caliber machine gun for "squirrel hunting" You are safe from squirrels, but not from your government. I hope you all enjoy living in the police state you helped create.
Cop

Indianapolis, IN

#2 Apr 26, 2008
Guy Fawkes wrote:
How many innocent people were pulled over and had their 4th amendment rights trampled in the process? Our society continually invites greater levels of authoritarianism in exchange for a false sense of security. Now, no hasty retorts until you can tell me what the 4th amendment says, and how it is obviously related to traffic enforcement. I doubt that the bulk of you know more than a fragment of the Bill of Right. Speaking of which, I wish people were as excited about the important Rights, and not just the one that lets them own a 50 caliber machine gun for "squirrel hunting" You are safe from squirrels, but not from your government. I hope you all enjoy living in the police state you helped create.
So you would rather have everyone driving around intoxicated? What a brilliant mind! Thank you officers for putting your lives on the line to protect our citizens especially Guy Fawke.
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#3 Apr 26, 2008
Page 1 of 2

Cop broke the rule and didn't tell me what the 4th amendment says. This is because he doesn't care, and those to whom is accountable care even less. Let me help cop with his high school civics...

The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and was designed as a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant), which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution. Toward that end, the amendment specifies that judicially sanctioned search and arrest warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court [1}.

I will grant cop that the Supreme Court has consistently sided with him in his desire to detain citizens. They maintain that individuals in automobiles have a reduced expectation of privacy, because vehicles generally do not serve as residences or repositories of personal effects. Vehicles may not be randomly stopped and searched; there must be probable cause or reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. Obviously to cop, a "gut feeling" will do in the absence of probable cause.

Items in "plain view" may be seized; areas that could potentially hide weapons may also be searched. With probable cause, police officers may search any area in the vehicle. They may not, however, extend the search to the vehicle's passengers without probable cause to search those passengers or consent from the passenger(s) to search their persons or effects [2]. The final link after my list of citations is to an article about what happens to cops who don't learn the Bill of Rights before making a traffic stop.

Continued in next post....
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#4 Apr 26, 2008
Page 2 of 2

Ultimately, this highlights two fundamental shortcoming of the Bill of Rights as it currently stands. The 2nd amendment has radically outlived its usefulness. In colonial times, it was reasonable to assume that the right to bear arms would allow the citizens to overthrow a government who was not upholding the constitution. Thus a central, albeit tacit, tenant of the 2nd amendment is that government be accountable to its citizens and not vice versa. Now that the government has nuclear missiles and aircraft carriers, it is unreasonable to assume that a handgun, even a 50-cal bought for "hunting", is of any consequence to government control. Unfortunately, as can be seen in the motor vehicle exception to the 4th amendment, and broader rulings on search and seizure, it gives police broad authority to search vehicles and homes under the auspices of searching for weapons that might be used against law enforcement. Beyond being good news for all of the timid woodland creatures facing off against the awesome firepower of high caliber semiautomatic rifles, repealing the second amendment would radically curtail police search powers by eliminating reasonable suspicion that a citizen was in possession of a weapon.

Conversely, a sorely needed amendment to the constitution would codify a citizen's right to privacy. Nowhere is privacy explicitly guaranteed in the Bill of Rights or in the body of the Constitution. This was an honest mistake on the part of the Constitution's architects. During colonial times, there were no phones or internet to tap, no black helicopters with night vision optics, and no Google Earth. Privacy was not under serious attack as it is today. In a world where a shut door provided basic privacy, there was no need to codify a right to that which could not, by the means of the day, be denied. The Supreme Court has been reticent to codify any expectation of privacy, because the Bill of Rights as it stands now is designed to protect the intimate acts related to the pursuit of happiness. The founding fathers were upset about Writs of Assistance, so the only genuine need for privacy was to keep British Soldiers from freeloading in American homes. They codified this in the 3rd amendment, which the Supreme Court has invoked as the only Constitutional guarantee of privacy. The Opinion of the Court by Justice WIllian O. Douglas in Griswold v. Connecticut 381 U.S. 479, 484 (1965) cites the 3rd amendment as implying a belief that an individual's home should be free from the agents of the state. A favorable amendment to the constitution would codify strict limits on the powers of surveillance granted to agents of the state, and state strongly that privacy is fundamental to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Bottom line, cop; Guy does not want to be protected. In fact, he begs for a world free from your brand of "protection". He would gladly take his chances with a driver drunk on beer, than a cop drunk on power.

[1] W. Cuddihy, The Fourth Amendment: Origins and Original Meaning (1990)(Ph.D. Dissertation at Claremont Graduate School)

[2} Hendrie, E.(August 2005). The Motor Vehicle Exception. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, 74, Retrieved August 14, 2006, from http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2005/augu...

[3] Barendt, Eric, Is there a United Kingdom Constitution, 1997, Oxford Journal of Legal Studies (vol. 137)

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2008/04/0...
Cop

Indianapolis, IN

#5 Apr 27, 2008
You are the type of person that blasts people or services until you need them.

Most police officers are not power hungry. Their main goal is to protect the MAJORITY of citizens that want us around.

You drink, you drive, you lose Guy.
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#6 Apr 27, 2008
I think cop needs to know a little more about Guy;

1) Guy does not drink and drive. Ever. Guy does not any way condone drinking and driving. How can cop possibly think that someone as intelligent as Guy would advocate something so socially destructive? Guy has been driving for 18 years. With no tickets no accidents. Nothing. Guy even wears his seatbelt. If cop spent more than 15% of his time prosecuting victimless crime, Guy would be more understanding. Guy would blast firefighters if their stand on constitutional rights was ever in question.

Cop, did you notice all of the scholarly citations in my previous two posts? You are going to have to say something radically more intelligent to win this argument. "You drink you drive you lose." sounds like something a 2nd grader would say.

You can end this discussion by saying that you think constitutional rights are the most important part of upholding public safety. Anything else you say just serves to expose your true feelings about the public.
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#7 Apr 27, 2008
Guy was so angry when he wrote the first paragraph that he didn't proofread it carefully. Please accept the following correction to the second sentence.

"Guy does not drink and drive. Ever. Guy does not in any way condone drinking and driving."
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#8 Apr 27, 2008
In fact, I was so angry, I never got around to making my point. Cop just started my day by threatening me. "You drink you drive you loose" says cop in an ominous tone. Now, I'm am about to drive to Indianapolis; I'll pass two of the billboards that say, "Pay attention, or pay the consequences" that show a grizzly scene of a cop car getting crushed between two semis. Now we are up three threats. On average I will pass through at least one "speed trap" on the trip to Indianapolis, with the police cars sitting in the median. Double all the for the return trip. Thus, guy has been threatened by the police 5 times today, not counting TV and radio ads, and not counting newspaper articles like the one that sent me into this rage. Guy utterly demands that if cop absolutely must "protect" him, that he find a way to do it without making public threats. Guy doesn't like being threatened anymore than cop does, and he's quite frankly tired of it.
guy shows more about men

United States

#9 Apr 27, 2008
Dear Guy,
I did not even take what cop said as a threat. You are getting pretty defensive though. Have you done something and gotten into trouble for it and felt it was unjust? All that defense you have going on seems that way. Oh nevermind, you must be that guy that lives alone and has no one to love you.
Get a life NERD!!!
Guy Fawkes

Thorntown, IN

#10 Apr 27, 2008
By your logic, anyone who knows something about the constitution is a nerd? Anyone who questions authority is a criminal? The notion that someone who questions authority is a "nerd" or worse a "criminal" is the first step down a wide and well paved road towards fascism. Fascism is a big-boy word, so let me help you out. Fascism describes authoritarian nationalist political ideologies or mass movements that are concerned with notions of cultural decline or decadence and seek to achieve a millenarian national rebirth by placing the interests of the individual as subordinate to that of the nation.

I thought that the foundation of democracy was lively public discussion about our government.

By the way, the zeal with which cop defend himself suggests to me that he is probably one of the guys who got into law enforcement for all of the right reasons. Best of all, he actually cares enough about public opinion to read and respond to comment. Hats off to him for defending his position in the debate, even if I don't agree with 100% of what he says. That's what debate means GSMAM!

Bottom line, GSMAM, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, stay out and be quiet.

P.S. You are a NERD too =P

Robert O. Paxton, The Anatomy of Fascism, page 218. Knopf, 2004
Roger Griffin, Nature of Fascism, New York: St. Martinís Press, 1991, p. xi
Kevin Passmore, Fascism: A Very Short Introduction, page 31. Oxford University Press, 2002
guy shows more about men

United States

#11 Apr 27, 2008
"Bottom line, GSMAM, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, stay out and be quiet.

P.S. You are a NERD too =P"

So your use of big boy words means it is ok for drunks to get out there and drive, right??? What about our loved ones we could lose? What about your intellegent ass walking across the street and one of these people run you over? Oh wait, thats justified because you used big boy words and it cant happen to you. WHATEVER!!! Its pretty cool that we have the internet for you to use to look up such big boy words because I seriously dont think you knew a single one before computers became a way of life.

oh and definition of word NERD:

A person with limited social, but advanced technological skills and interests.

Tell me where the shoe fits!!!
mclaren1975

West Lafayette, IN

#12 Apr 28, 2008
Congratulations. It takes a lot of skill to sit in your squad car outside a bar and pull over every driver that looks younger than 40.
violated

Franklin, IN

#13 Mar 25, 2014
Cops at Purdue suck! They randomly arrest people just standing on the sidewalk for PI, especially if you are an attractive female, so that four huge fat ass cops can hold you down and strip you completely naked once you get to the jail. Total abuse of authority and I still wish I would have filed a civil law suit when this happened to me as a student in 2008. The cops up there are just jealous of all the smart students who are actually going to leave the town and become successful when they graduate!
BtFU

Frankfort, IN

#14 Apr 23, 2014
It will only get worse if Laura Zeman gets elected. Power hungry lunatic!!
Ordinary Person

Lafayette, IN

#15 Jul 22, 2014
Guy Fawkes wrote:
In fact, I was so angry, I never got around to making my point. Cop just started my day by threatening me. "You drink you drive you loose" says cop in an ominous tone. Now, I'm am about to drive to Indianapolis; I'll pass two of the billboards that say, "Pay attention, or pay the consequences" that show a grizzly scene of a cop car getting crushed between two semis. Now we are up three threats. On average I will pass through at least one "speed trap" on the trip to Indianapolis, with the police cars sitting in the median. Double all the for the return trip. Thus, guy has been threatened by the police 5 times today, not counting TV and radio ads, and not counting newspaper articles like the one that sent me into this rage. Guy utterly demands that if cop absolutely must "protect" him, that he find a way to do it without making public threats. Guy doesn't like being threatened anymore than cop does, and he's quite frankly tired of it.
Driving a vehicle on the road is a privilege not a right. I know you probably took some courses in college that makes you an expert. I know you don't drink and drive, you probably light up a one hitter instead. I bet you don't or never have served your country have you. You are probably the type that will stand back in the shadows while other brave men and women risk their lives at helping others. Tell us something heroic you have done? No saving a hamster from you cat doesn't count.
Ordinary Person

Lafayette, IN

#16 Jul 22, 2014
Guy your right, you have a ton of rights you don't get to use. Try using this one, as I'm sure they won't stop you from doing so.

Move the hell out of the United States and see how your rights hold up in other country's.
Ordinary Person

Lafayette, IN

#17 Jul 22, 2014
violated wrote:
Cops at Purdue suck! They randomly arrest people just standing on the sidewalk for PI, especially if you are an attractive female, so that four huge fat ass cops can hold you down and strip you completely naked once you get to the jail. Total abuse of authority and I still wish I would have filed a civil law suit when this happened to me as a student in 2008. The cops up there are just jealous of all the smart students who are actually going to leave the town and become successful when they graduate!
Really, if you are so Smart you wouldn't go stand on the sidewalk DRUNK. Do us all a favor, never every call the police if you need help. They are there to help protect the public from idiots who think they can do what ever they want. Now go tell Mommy someone was being mean to you.
Ordinary Person

Lafayette, IN

#18 Jul 22, 2014
mclaren1975 wrote:
Congratulations. It takes a lot of skill to sit in your squad car outside a bar and pull over every driver that looks younger than 40.
Let me guess. You have gotten pulled over and arrested for drinking and driving. Grow up, I want to see you go up to someone that has had a child, parent, brother or sister killed by a drunk driver and tell them you views.

You have a choice when you get behind the wheel. The other person driving towards you, has no idea you made the wrong one, and because of your stupid decision they have now became a victim.

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