Battle between disaffected diocese and TEC begins

Jan 5, 2013 Full story: Post and Courier 26

In an effort to retain control of church property that local officials say is worth more than $500 million, the breakaway Diocese of South Carolina, joined by 16 parishes, filed a lawsuit Friday against The Episcopal Church, asserting its historical sovereignty and newly established independence ...

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1 Jan 6, 2013
from Post and Courier:

"At the heart of the dispute is the definition of the word 'diocese' and the diocese’s legal claim to the physical property located in the region. People loyal to The Episcopal Church say a diocese is an administrative and geographical entity that’s part of a larger institution, and it cannot 'leave' the church. Only people can leave the church.

"But Lawrence, Lewis and other officials argue that a diocese is merely a collection of parishes under a bishop.

"'We seek to protect more than $500 million in real property, including churches, rectories and other buildings that South Carolinians built, paid for, maintained and expanded — and in some cases died to protect — without any support from The Episcopal Church,' Lewis said in a statement.'Many of our parishes are among the oldest operating churches in the nation. They and this diocese predate the establishment of The Episcopal Church ...'"

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#2 Jan 7, 2013
Thou shalt not steal@!!!
George

Jacksonville, FL

#3 Jan 7, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
Thou shalt not steal@!!!
So why is TEC trying to steal SC's churches?

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#4 Jan 7, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
So why is TEC trying to steal SC's churches?
George, if you had anything to do with TEC, then you would know that the DIOCESE holds the deeds to the property....the COURT has decided in several states that the DIOCESE owns it and no one else.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#5 Jan 7, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>George, if you had anything to do with TEC, then you would know that the DIOCESE holds the deeds to the property ...
How does the Episcopal diocese hold the deed to what was Anglican church property?
Is there a bill of sale?

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#6 Jan 7, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
How does the Episcopal diocese hold the deed to what was Anglican church property?
Is there a bill of sale?
Why don't you ask Christ Church in Savannah Georgia how that works....the property belongs to TEC. The End!
Think Again

Farmville, NC

#7 Jan 7, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you ask Christ Church in Savannah Georgia how that works....the property belongs to TEC. The End!
Everything belongs to God and since TEC no longer represents God here on earth, they no longer own the property.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#8 Jan 7, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
How does the Episcopal diocese hold the deed to what was Anglican church property?
Is there a bill of sale?
Yeah.

It is called the Declaration of Independence.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#9 Jan 7, 2013
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything belongs to God and since TEC no longer represents God here on earth, they no longer own the property.
Novel! But, not a surprise, coming from the likes of the one who needs to "Think Again."

If everything belongs to God, as you say, then WHY are the absconding seccessionists led by Rev. Lawrence laying claim?

Obviously, they think that the best defense is a good offense.

"A Mighty Fortress is our God!" This they will have to reckon with, before they are left where Jesus will have flang them.

Rev. Ken
Jeremy

United States

#10 Jan 7, 2013
Nightshift posing as Think Again, shut the hell up, you fraud.
Jeremy

United States

#11 Jan 7, 2013
How's it going Rev Ken? Glad to see you over here.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#12 Jan 7, 2013
Jeremy wrote:
How's it going Rev Ken? Glad to see you over here.
Jeremy!

Last time we talked, if I recall, you were frustrated with the upset going on in your Diocese.

I hope you personally are finding an acceptable level of comfort within yourself and are determined to keep a level head and heart through this slow-motion mess.

Guarantee you that is what Christ Jesus is doing. Mimicry on multiple levels is the best form of flattery. That is called "discipleship" and it is appreciated and rewarded by the Master.

Pick your route with intelligent care and consideration for others. And when you rest for a bit, remember to keep your foot on a solid rock and to lap water from the spring with your spear in one hand and your shield up in the other and an eye and an ear out, yet trusting in the Lord.

Judges 6-8

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

#13 Jan 8, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>George, if you had anything to do with TEC, then you would know that the DIOCESE holds the deeds to the property....the COURT has decided in several states that the DIOCESE owns it and no one else.
You are wrong on so many counts: First, the parishes have title to all the properties. Generally, the deed reads, "The Wardens and Vestry of....." Second, more than a year ago, the diocese executed quit claim deeds to all of the parishes disclaiming any interest in the parish properties. Third, go read the Pawley Island decision of the South Carolina Supreme Court. They said very clearly that applying neutral principle of law is the means by which property disputes among feduing denominations is to be resolved. Under SC law, you cannot declare yourself the beneficary of a trust unless the owner agrees (perhaps on writing?) So in this instance, the faux diocese and 815 are the "thieves", laying claim to that wihch is owned by others.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#14 Jan 8, 2013
Sorry George...you just can't have a few decide to take off with the goods...(See secede in the Funk and Wagnalls) You just can't take your marbles and go home...childish....or your perceived marbles.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#15 Jan 8, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
Sorry George...you just can't have a few decide to take off with the goods...(See secede in the Funk and Wagnalls) You just can't take your marbles and go home...childish....or your perceived marbles.
Childish? What a laugh! I address facts and legal authority - you deal in rank speculation, ad hominem and fancy. In South Carolina, at least, TEO is going to get its butt whipped -- and deservedly so for its arrogance, violation of its own canons and its rank apostasy. Schoria law just won't fly there.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#16 Jan 8, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you ask Christ Church in Savannah Georgia ...
Because this case is under the legal jurisdiction of S. Carolina, not Georgia.
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah.
It is called the Declaration of Independence.
In other words, C of E property was taken by rebels through force of arms during the Revolutionary War, but isn't armed robbery synonymous with stealing?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#17 Jan 8, 2013
Ex-Bishop claims $500 million in Episcopal Church assets and property belongs to him & his PECDSC Inc.

Only half of the parishes and missions & one-third of the clergy of the Diocese have formally signed on with Lawrence and his corporation.

"The best thing about the lawsuit is that it has finally made one thing clear: It's all about money and property, and always has been."

"Over the years, Lawrence has repeatedly castigated those who would use the legal system in resolving matters of faith. You can read his ten-page spiritual and Biblical justification -- with a major serving of crow -- on why he now thinks the Courts should give him the $14 million, and his followers the $486 million in Church assets and property they want here"

http://scepiscopalians.com/

The Rev. Mr. Dalcho makes no mention of any "diocese" existing prior to the creation of the Episcopal Church, nor did the parishes in post-colonial South Carolina think of themselves as such. There was thinking that the parishes should also be quasi-governmental entities like they were under the British, and hence they met in official government buildings.

"Collectively, these congregations were called the “Protestant Episcopal Churches in the State of South Carolina," not the "Diocese of South Carolina", and the principal reason they would gather was to work toward membership in a unified national Protestant Episcopal Church."

http://scepiscopalians.com/2013_Lawsuit.html

Straight from the horses mouth, AGAIN.....

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#18 Jan 8, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong on so many counts: First, the parishes have title to all the properties. Generally, the deed reads, "The Wardens and Vestry of....." Second, more than a year ago, the diocese executed quit claim deeds to all of the parishes disclaiming any interest in the parish properties. Third, go read the Pawley Island decision of the South Carolina Supreme Court. They said very clearly that applying neutral principle of law is the means by which property disputes among feduing denominations is to be resolved. Under SC law, you cannot declare yourself the beneficary of a trust unless the owner agrees (perhaps on writing?) So in this instance, the faux diocese and 815 are the "thieves", laying claim to that wihch is owned by others.
An interesting defense for outright theft. Wouldn't the Court see the issuance of QCDs as an act of preparation to create the actual heist?

If the Court does not see this, especially in light of the Dennis Canon, then one has to consider that the Court is controlled by Anglican and Missouri Synod Lutheran and Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist and Muslim judges!

LMFAO!!!.....(The F stands for Friar)

Someday, someone who is actually deciding where theae properties are going to belong is going to have to wrestle with the choices made by the members of these Church parishes and their Diocesan leaders along about the year 1776.

That was when they disavowed the ownership of their parish and Diocesan property under the King of England and his Church.

I guess one could say that some of these people and their successors are still trying to justify that behavior. Not the principles for which the behavior was chosen; just the behavior itself.

The Ghosts of the Battle for Fort Sumter are still alive.

Rev. Ken

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#19 Jan 8, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Because this case is under the legal jurisdiction of S. Carolina, not Georgia.
<quoted text>
In other words, C of E property was taken by rebels through force of arms during the Revolutionary War, but isn't armed robbery synonymous with stealing?
Stealing is stealing even if you do it in South Carolina!!!!
George

Jacksonville, FL

#20 Jan 8, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFAO!!!.....(The F stands for Friar)Rev. Ken
I think the F stands for fool. No - I am sure it does.

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