St. Cloud Fire Rescue's missing tower...
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Since: Jul 12

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#21 Aug 5, 2012
"Oh Boy" I "Really" didn't want to get into this, but your screen names brought me to the floor. Once again lets look at facts, just not what you think are facts.

St. Cloud FIre ISO Rating is a 2. Yes that is a good rating, most of the ISO points are from water supply, i.e hydrant pressures and locations. The Tower truck also gets you points, that is why it was originally purchased due to the 3 story buildings in the city limits, but when its not in service due to staffing, maybe ISO needs to come back to re-evaluate.

Pump hydraulics is a science. Fires require certain amounts of water to convert heat into steam, may seem like a simple concept, but if done wrong you can kill or steam the occupants and or the fireman inside. So here is a sample problem for the knob and switch flippers, remember if you can't get the correct amount of water to the end of the hose, PEOPLE CAN DIE> : Determine the total pressure loss due to friction for a hose layout in which one 500ft 3 inch hose with 3 inch couplings is supplying three attack lines attached to a water thief. The first attack line consists of 150 ft of 1 3/4 hose flowing 125 GPM (gallons per minute), The second attack line is 100 ft of 1 3/4 inch flowing 95 GPM. The third attack line is 150ft of 2 1/2 inch hose flowing 225 GPM. What pressure do you set each attack line? I will give you a hint, the formula for FL (fire flow) is FL=CQ(2)L. If you did not have the GPM already, there is another formula for that. Plus tell me how many more like hoselines you can supply me from your engine if your hydrant is flowing 1900 GPM at a compund of 20psi.

Sick time is counted toward OT. Yes you are correct, but there is the catch. A FF hourly rate is decreased to compensate for the scheduled OT. Compare two employs making the same yearly salary of 30,000/yr. 40 hour employee who works 2080 hours a year at a rate of $14.42/hr verses Fire fighter who works 3020hrs a year on a 24hour on 48 hour shift off, has an hourly rate of $9.93/hr,who also makes 30,000 a year. Paychecks are figured as follows. In 3 bi weekly pay cycles 1st paycheck is 106 hours straight time (9.93/hr) and 16 hours (scheduled OT Rate (14.89/hr). 2nd bi weekly pay check same as first. 3rd bi weekly paycheck is only 96hrs at 9.93/hr., then the cycle repeats itself. The fact is two employees making the same salary with the FF working more hours due to the decreased rate to reach the same hourly salary. When sick time is used only OT that is earned is the scheduled OT due to the decreased hourly rate to reach the same salary, this allows for no pay loss. So as "Oh Boy" says a normal employee would get 48 hours straight time at a rate of 14.42/hr but a Firefighter would get 9.93/hr without the figured in OT, see the loss? If not email me on here and I will gladly explain it better..

The SAFER grant funds only for 2 years. This funding was set by FEMA for fire departments that do not meet NFPA staffing standards to be able to budget for them in the near future, but if they cannot fund the positions after two years departments can keep applying for the grant to keep the fire firefighters if the municipality can demonstrate that they they do not have any money to fund the FF positions for the next two year cycle. That is where the problem exists with St. Cloud. The CAFRS audits have the money, the city chooses not to fund it or research alternative funding sources, such ass MSTU (Kissimmee Fire and Osceola Fire both have assessment fees).

Unions milk benefits. I agree some unions do, but when SC firefighter starting pay is extremely lower than the surrounding departments and they are overworked due to low staffing,placing undue stress on themselves and the citizens they serve. Low pay and overwork creates hostility. Yes, everyone should be happy to have jobs. Why do you blame the firefighters, they didn't create this mess. This then leaves one question, who did create the mess?

Saint Cloud, FL

#22 Aug 5, 2012
"Oh Boy", you are clearly just as dumb and ignorant as "Really". You have both proven nothing more than you can run your mouth with no facts to back it up. You both talk negative of unions. Obviously you have no idea that the current typical 40 hour work week with lunch and breaks during the day were all benefits that were initially fought for and won by unions. Why are you guys so angry at firefighters for just asking questions about why the taxpayers of St. cloud aren't getting the same benefits as everyone else in Central Florida. You think they should have part time employees or volunteers? Maybe its that both you and "Really" couldn't make the cut to be firefighters and now your a little bitter, or maybe your hoping by either cross training or volunteering you can finally have your shot at it. By the way, thanks for pointing out the obvious when saying the gauges are installed by the factory, you'll go a long way with knowledge like that. I bet it even came with tires and an engine too. Also just in case you don't know, gauges monitor pressures, switches turn on lights, and the only knobs that can be turned are to drain lines, so once again thank you for proving you know NOTHING about the operation of the pump panel or about the job itself. I bet you go outside with your garden hose and play firefighter when you get home from work don't you? By the way I can read English just fine, it's pure ignorance and stupidity that I have a hard time with and that's all we've heard from you and "Really". Yes, after 2 years the city would have to pick up the cost of the employees, unless of course they just re-applied for the grant for more assistance. Like I said, you get on here running your mouth with nothing to back it up. Have fun playing with your garden hose.

United States

#23 Aug 6, 2012
I probably mis-guessed who officer really is but it does not matter as he is grossly misinformed. Ron I'm glad you retired because we do not need antiquated thinking as you have. This is not am argument about the union. The issue is that the fire department can not do the job that the city says it can. The media will eventually report on this. The city's insurance rating is a 2. That is a good rating if it is not based on mis representation of facts & fraud. The former chief moved equipment from station to station ahead of the evaluator. The ISO rating will not hold up to scrutiny, if they came to evaluate the FD's readiness today, tomorrow the residents would be paying higher taxes. Those taxes would sky rocket with volunteer ff or cross training, not to mention the toll it would take on law enforcement. I am smart enough to admit I don't know how to be a cop. Only someone who lacks insight to firefighting would diminish the job to turning knobs & watching gushed. That would be like saying all that cops do is taze people. A person can speak like this in anonymity but it really boils down to cowardice. The bottom line is that the FD can not do the job the city says it can. You can sugar coat, divert the argument but if the city does not provide the firefighters with the tools they need they can not do the job. It is only a matter of time before someone, either a firefighter or a taxpayer dies. The ones who will be accountable are the managers of the city because the fire department does not meet the STANDARD level of servic that every other fire department in central Florida does. I guess the old saying is true, the only thing that cops & firemen have in common is that they all want to be firemen. I thought it was just a joke, apparently not! I always wondered what happened to people who couldn't make it through the fire academy, they make idiotic, mis-informed posts bashing firefighters on obscure blogs. Sir, I know many good police officers, you two are not among them.

United States

#24 Aug 6, 2012
Cross train the police to do simple stuff like set up hoses and "watch" gauges? Really really? What happens when something on a gauge goes wrong? Unless you have an understanding of pump operations and basic fireground tactics you wouldn't be able to troubleshoot any problems. In order to be able to do these tasks each police officer would have to go to the fire academy and then pump ops class. Now let's do some standards is about $6,000 per person right now and takes about 4 months to complete at 40 hours a week, the starting pay for a SCPD officer is about $17/hour. So it would cost about 16,000 per police officer to send them through the fire academy (which is the most basic level of firefighting training available). If we send the majority of the officers on the force it would be around 60-80 cops. All of this quickly builds up and ends up costing the city in the neighborhood of a million dollars and we haven't even sent them to "gauge watcher" school yet you fucking retard!

By the way do you really think that the men and women of SCPD are going to do all of this work and take on duties outside their normal job description without getting a pay increase? Keep drinking that Kool-aide...

It would be much cheaper to just hire a few more firefighters at 30,000 year.

Tampa, FL

#25 Aug 6, 2012
The fire rating is NOT accurate it truthful!
Jill Bohnson

United States

#26 Aug 6, 2012
No the fire rating is NOT accurate. In fact I remember moving equipment from in service trucks onto a truck that was given to the parks and recreation department. Also ISO was informed that St. Cloud fire rescue has 4 man engine companies, a complete falsehood. That ISO rating is 100% fabrication brought to you by people who know how to cheat the system and lie very well.

United States

#27 Aug 6, 2012
"Oh boy" and "really" hate firefighters period. WHO HATES firefighters? Seriously, the only people who have this much of a chip on shoulder about firefighters are cops. Not good cops but either old fat retired cops or failed cops. "Oh boy" and "really" (yes we know its the same person) you should stop wasting your time and ours. If you truly think we are dumb then let's call an inquiry into the goings on at the fire department. Start with the bogus ISO rating!!! Also, stop being hostile and derogatory towards us (the moron comments). Grow up and use your big boy/girl words.

United States

#28 Aug 6, 2012
needanuchief wrote:
The fire rating is NOT accurate it truthful!
should have said "or" truthful.
Oh boy

Saint Cloud, FL

#29 Aug 6, 2012
Question for you boys and girls. What is the first thing FF do on scene to fight a fire and put it out? Answer, hook up the hose to suppress it with water.

Now here we go with the FF "need more full time help, can't cross train BS. You see Mr if you stop chumpinhuevos you would see in your failed attempt to "look Smart" you showed your ignorance. According to "State Standards of Certification' the pump ops class you spoke of is only 40 hours of training- the course includes bringing a calculator. Now assuming you taught the entire 40 class to an officer (at the 17 rate you quoted) that would be a cost of about $680. Now genius get this.. just to keep things simple for you..this class can be taught in any amount of time increments. So if the city wanted to it could utilized the already incorporated training days of Officers and teach them over several months. Now next you would be telling me you would need to have the full academy to learn how to roll out and connect the hoses together right? The standards also allow for extended training time for "volunteer FF" which means "on the job" working as you go training- way to leave out the Volunteers. The Academy could also adjust its training cycles-like it did for paramedics to be SWAT assistance; but you don't bitch about that cause its extra money in your pockets. BTW this would also mean the extra money and hour would be a stipend or better yet a part time job and if the city wanted to approve they could tuition assist with the training.

As for those claiming hating going on; the only thing being hated is the fact that YOU as FF state YOU need more help but then are too busy bitching to look for REAL solutions. EVEN IF you got two more FF; lets face it when the shit hits the fans all help is needed. Part time, Reserve/Volunteer/Cross training are all viable options. If you would get "NADS" out of your mouth and head and lose your egos and activate your brains outside of the box you would find it works.

As for all you big hard core SC FF saying you know this and that- hiding your post locations shows your true motives. We all know its the local boys running down the Chief. FYI fellas it didn't work for the PD years ago.

As for the ISO ratings, it is truthful and accurate. This FD responds well, efficient and quick. All you posting name one fire there hasn't been adequate coverage? You can't. You just want to drive the new big shiny red truck instead of the old one. Period.
Reel it in

Clermont, FL

#30 Aug 7, 2012
This forum is so far off topic at this point. This is not about firefighters verses cops. It's about hiring more firefighters to operate a 750,000 truck that is out of service more than in service due to low staffing levels. If you live in the city you should get what you pay for. Period.

United States

#31 Aug 7, 2012
Why would we want more help? We have a great job with a great chief and .........oh.......damn I just woke up!! I'm late!!!

Since: Aug 12

Clermont, FL

#32 Aug 7, 2012
To Oh Boy, I don’t appreciate being referenced in your post, thank you for those that called me. Interesting debate, which makes no sense by all parties because all you guys are doing is bashing each other, very unproductive. So to validate I am the real Brian N., I have not been at work for over 6 weeks due to an on the job injury and my return date back to work is August 12th. As for Oh Boy, funny how you hide behind this blog, but point fingers at everyone else while you are doing the same. First of all, your assumptions are false. It is unfortunate that our fine fire department has come down to bash blogging on a website. After reading all the posts on this topic I will give you my opinion as Brian N. in St. Cloud. The first talk of a tower truck came over 6 years ago when our previous fire chief Charlie brought one to the station for us to look at. Chief Charlie stated the truck was needed for future ISO points. As usual the truck was purchased by yearly budget installments over 3 or 4 years (unsure of the length). During this time there was a transition of Fire Chiefs from Chief Charlie to our current fire Chief in the summer of 2010. The fire department took ownership of the Tower Truck the latter part of 2011 and began manning it as our current staffing dictates. In 2010 NFPA 1710 standard came out with a revised updated version that states Tower Fire Trucks had to have a certain amount of staffing. This was brought to fire administration by the union leadership. Not shortly after, the tower was taken out of service if staffing fell where only two FF where left on it. Due to terminations, injuries, standard sick call outs, and turnover the Tower has been out of service more than it has been in service. I commend the union for bringing the unsafe staffing to light and the administration for keeping it out of service with unsafe manning. Now as far as cops vs FF. Your comment about the medics, my fellow employees, that went to be SWAT medics is also false. These paramedics take vacation time to train and are not compensated as of my knowledge.There are real solutions being sought, in fact the FD just applied for the SAFER act.I just found this on the city websites agenda researching a term paper (my degree program is Fire Service Administration) August 9th meeting. Resolution 2012-24R “This resolution authorizes the Fire Rescue Department to apply for nine additional firefighter positions to be funded under the Department of Homeland Securitys 2012 SAFER hiring program for the purpose of improving public safety response and meeting NFPA standards for minimum assembly at an incident. For 2011 the Citys population was estimated to be 36,980 which would require 7.5 additional firefighters to meet the Citys established Level of Service standard of .5 firefighters per 1,000 population per shift. In order to meet NFPA standards for each of our three primary engines would require 1 additional FF per engine, per shift, for a total of 9 new firefighters.”I will post the whole resolution on my next post, so you can see “Oh Boy” there are positive solutions being sought. The admin/union leadership agree staffing is needed. As many who know me I am not afraid to state my opinion and state my opinion with my real name attached. After reading your posts I believe I know who you are, but I will not state your name. If I am right you are retired PD and always addressed me as “NADS” when I spoke to you (it was also my high school nickname).You used “Oh BOY” as an adjective a lot when I was around you.You taught or currently teaching at the police academy.You also had an on the job injury that tore a famous tendon on the heel of your foot.Please do not refer to me unless you are willing to use your name as I did. Your perceptions are false including the person(s)feeding you information. I really hope I am wrong about your identity because I heard you may run for political office and most voters want transparency.

Since: Aug 12

Clermont, FL

#33 Aug 7, 2012
As promised from St. CLoud Agenda..

WHEREAS, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security/FEMA’s Assistance to Firefighters Grant Program received appropriations from Congress for the 2012 SAFER Grant and subsequently released a grant opportunity to eligible fire departments on July 16, 2012 for the purpose of hiring additional firefighters to improve response time and appropriate number of trained personnel assembly at incident scenes; and

WHEREAS, FEMA is committed to supporting military veterans and encourages departments applying for 2012 SAFER hiring grants to recruit and hire military veterans and will provide full funding for three years for each position filled by a military veteran new to the fire service who meets requirements of the grant and the VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011; and

WHEREAS, the 2012 SAFER grant also provides funding for new non-military veteran firefighter positions for the first two years of the 3-year grant performance period and requires the retention of these grant-funded firefighter positions for 12 months following the two-year grant-funded period at Grantee’s full expense; and

WHEREAS, the City of St. Cloud Fire Rescue Department has determined that it is in the best interest of the citizens that the Department increase its staffing by nine officer positions in order to maintain the Level of Service standard established by Resolution 2002-292R and to improve officer safety and public safety response; and

WHEREAS, the Department is a local fire department eligible to submit a SAFER grant application, and if awarded, intends to implement policies and recruitment efforts in support of the SAFER Veterans Hiring Program to fill as many of the nine new firefighter positions with qualified military veterans for a 3-year grant funding period; and

WHEREAS, if the Department is unable to fill any or all of the new firefighter positions with qualified veterans, the Department will accept two years of SAFER funding for each non-military veteran firefighter hired and commit to full funding to retain those positions in the third year at City’s expense;
NOW, BE IT RESOLVED by the City Council of the City of St. Cloud of Osceola County, Florida that:

The 2012 SAFER grant application by the City of St. Cloud Fire Rescue Department for the purpose of increasing the Department’s staffing by nine firefighter positions is hereby authorized.
The Department is prepared to meet the grant’s retention requirement during the 3rd year grant period for any non-veteran positions funded and will retain the increased staffing level with local funds for a minimum of 12 months following expiration of the grant funding period.

The Grants Administrator is authorized to submit the SAFER grant application on behalf of the St. Cloud Fire Rescue Department and is authorized to sign the application on behalf of the Mayor.
PASSED AND ADOPTED by the City Council of the City of St. Cloud, Florida, on this 9th day of August, 2012.
__________ City Clerk, Linda Jaworski
__________ City Attorney, Daniel F. Mantzaris
By __________ Mayor, Rebecca Bord

Ocoee, FL

#34 Aug 7, 2012
Oh boy your post only makes one thing abundantly clear, you lack the most basic understanding of fire fighting. Which one of St. Cloud's bravest banged your old lady?

Saint Cloud, FL

#35 Aug 8, 2012
First I want to give props to Brian for standing up and what I say next is not to put down what you said just to allow everyone reading to have a little more info. With that being said this grant would be great but there is just one thing about it that is going to hold it up just like every other time SCFR has applied for it. The bottom line is that the city and the administration is going to have to admit that the department does not meet NFPA 1710. Which the person that is writing the grant has already said he can't do that. So we shall see what happens. On another note none of this would be coming about right now without increased pressure from the union. It is well known that the current chief has had no plans in place and has been content to keep things the way they are. Moving on to this "oh boy" character, I think Brian hit the nail on the head when it comes to you, and I'm just going to add that you coming on here and repeating yourself over and over again just shows that you don't know shit and you should keep your mouth shut, and just so you know the last few elections the person that the union backs is usually the person that gets elected. Back to business, The "because this is the way it has always been done" mentality needs to end at SCFR, and just because it has always been done that way does not mean its right. The NFPA states "companies shall be staffed with a minimum of four on-duty personnel." So with that being said even with the grant we will not meet the standard 100% of the time only when no one is sick or on vacation. The NFPA also states "Personnel assigned to the initial arriving company shall have the capability to implement an initial rapid intervention
crew (IRIC)." Which you cannot do with only three people on a unit. Now I know what some of you are thinking the rescues are coming to the fire too, but that is not always the case. The department ran over 5,000 calls last year and is set to run more this year. The majority of these calls are medical meaning that the rescues are spending more and more time out of service at the hospital. It is time that this department starts being proactive about its manning. The lack of man power puts citizens and the firefighters in more danger than they need to be in and it is only a matter of time before someone is hurt or killed. I hope that this information is not taken the wrong way, I do not care if the chief is fired or keeps his job I just want him to do his job by keeping everyone safe with the proper amount of personnel and proper training and planning.
Onewhosnamewedon otspeakof

Apopka, FL

#36 Aug 12, 2012
This is really, no pun intended, sad! This is a perfect example of the travesty going on at the SCFR department as a whole. The administration is crooked, period! There is documentation of this should one want to venture. There are battles with so many issues, this truck should be the least of worries. When a department trades apples for get apples! The current Chief Johnston was in administration for 16 years with former Chief Lewis and states he had no idea how bad it was! Takes zero responsibility for any and all misappropriations that were done but rather cowards behind his Bible and states he was praying for things to change. Next thing he states it will either be him or Lewis and if Lewis did not leave he was retiring. Then Chief Lewis was his best friend and we should remember all the great things he did for us. Why is it that someone applies for a position that is technically superior in education is not making interviews for said positions with a panel of chiefs from the same church? Why is the church involved in governmental procedures? Why is Christian based photos with Bible verses in stations? Because, administration will do what they want when they want, right or wrong. They don't care and the more chaos they create, the more the men turn on each other. Everyone has an opinion on everything and maybe 10% is based on facts. The ignorance is deep in the fire department, not to mention other departments. When wrongdoing is found, nothing is done. It is truly sad to see the police involved in this when it doesn't concern them. Or wait, does it? Why would it? Least of all the city mayor nor it's council will take responsibility because their answers will be the same as well, we had no idea, because if they did and they are allowing this, shame on them! What about the substandard gear that was worn? I am all for the cops going in first, since it is so easy, let them go in and tell us the best way to attach oh but give them the old gear we had and let them. I'm sure their union will defend them, oops that's right they do not have a union to ensure safety and rights therein! So heck yeah, let's let them do it! We will sit back and direct the traffic. The entire department is a mess. Someone needs to come in and clean up the mess, get morale where it should be and make the department the potential it has. There are many great men and women that are part of this department that do not need nor want the politics it requires to work. This chaos creates a hostile work environment and a lack of integrity needed for the workforce of doing the job that one person at SCFR does equivelant to five men elsewhere. The men and women of the fire department need to be heard without the fear of what may or may not happen to them should one decide to do so. They deal with enough nonsense on a daily basis with poor leadership, bad morale and distant with administration. All of which create fear and concern on the foregrounds, where it is not needed. These men and women deserve to be praised and not put down for the jobs they do with what they are given. Every Medic deserves a medal for the intolerable conditions that are put upon them, ask one, he or she will tell you. Ask about computers? Ask about exposures and lack of being informed until months later? Ask about changing documents and signatures? Ask about three, four, seven years later signing for narcotics because there wasn't a signature? Ask about being forced to make a signature and being given and order to do so, then it is signed and a medic is being investigated, then the original document is found afterwards? The list goes on and on! To the blue shirts of the SCFR department, who aren't part of "the click" hold your heads high you are great people and for the most of ya retirement is coming soon!
Tyrone Shoelases

Columbiana, OH

#37 Sep 24, 2012
needanuchief wrote:
I have a question. If we pay for a fire truck that seats 4 why do I always see only 2 guys in the trucks?
Because theyn have BUCKET seats?

Jacksonville, FL

#38 Dec 6, 2012
OH BOY..... You are obivously out in left field. "just turn some knobs", "No math needed"?????? Ok buddy.... try it! You are 1000 feet from your hydrant, using 6inch LDH.... You need to provide approximately 150 psi to a fog nozzle for your attack crew. no exposure lines yet. You currently have 300 feet of 3inch, hooked up to a gated wye which is currently only running one 1 3/4 inch line at a length of 100 feet. What would be your overall friction loss and the input pressure needed to maintain water for your attack crew?
EXACTLY!!!!!! learn what youre talking about buddy. "No math needed", rofl.... And thats an easy one. That isnt even a scenario with multiple lines and devices. Next time... You should just keep your mouth shut. And by the way..... This is why Police do what they do, and Firefighters do what they do.EMS is one thing, but firefighting is a whole different world. This is why people are properly trained for certain jobs. Crosstraining does not work for these public services. And it greatly henders proper services to the community.

United States

#39 Dec 9, 2012
needanuchief wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, that was a disturbing and racist reply? No one understands who you are talking about.
Since when did *gay* become a race! Now Mayor Rebecca Borders called her husband now Lake Sheriff a lot worse than just that before a lot of witnesses around 1996. At the time these witnesses thought the big blow up was regarding her possible catching her pedophile husband fooling around with her son. No one ever substanciated that. But by the looks of her son his demeanor shows that of a sexually abused child. Just wondering if perhaps Rebecca Borders is a lessie too? Lake County people seem to think the sheriff's two marriages were never more than cover up for his *gay* lifestyle.

The Mayor is one of the X-wifes refered too in the below blog from a Lake County site. This X-couple leaves a lot of unanswered questions. His budget as Lake Sheriff is known to have mucho-missing funds disclosed by his former finance director who he paid off to leave town. Maybe her's does as well. Maybe this is why the firefighters and police and others have funds shortages. When Rebecca and Gary was married she claimed to have two sons, Jason ahd Heremy who was eight years younger than Jason- now on her Mayor page she only mentions one son Jason. This would not be an issue if not for all the pedophilia and other lies and deceit uncovered by these Xes. Anyone seriously interested in St Cloud who do well to get Rebecca Borders personnel files from the Osceola and Lake County Sheriff's Offices. They will try to stop you but if you succeed you will get some interesting finds.

Borders come out of the closet! says:

When will it end. Homo borders has been lying to the county since the day Chris Daniels died. He has been serving as the counties top cop for around 6 whole years now. But Borders still won’t come out of the closet.

The reasons are anybodies guess. But judging from the fact that Borders is a two-time divorcee (closeted homo marriage), bald, middle aged, flacid and single walking corpse, point to depression as the likely culprit. Do we really want someone like this running Lakes largest law enforcement agency??

A full run down on Borders involvement with the Green isle Boys the Osceola County Boys Clubs going all the way back to 1980 can be found on this link. isle&count=
for contact

United States

#40 Dec 9, 2012
If any of you guys happen to run into any old victims of this pedophile sheriff from his days at the Osceola County Boys Clubs while working at the Osceola County Jail please refer them to this lawyer. There is no statute of limitations on child sex abuse and since he was known by his bosses for what he was doing at the time there is some deep pockets to collect some lawsuit settlement from. The below link specializes in this.

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