St. Cloud Fire Rescue's missing tower...

St. Cloud Fire Rescue's missing tower truck?

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Ocoee, FL

#1 Jul 30, 2012
If you remember St. Cloud Fire bought a brand new tower truck last year for somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4 million dollars (this amount doesnt include the equipment on the truck or the dollars spent putting it into service either). As a concerned citizen I have noticed that the firefighters on Minnesota avenue often leave that expensive truck in the garage and ride the old engine truck to fires. I have discovered by asking around that this is due to low staffing levels at St. Cloud fire rescue. Apparently a piece of life saving equipment that complex cannot be operated by less than 3 firefighters, I have also been informed that st cloud fire often operates fire engines with only two people on them. This concerns me because I have noticed that Osceola county and Kissimmee fire departemnts always have 3-4 firefighters on a truck minimum. My question is this; why doesn't St. Cloud fire rescue hire enough firefighters to enable the tax payers to be protected by their expensive new truck? Not to mention; Why don't I get as many firefighters on my town's fire truck as a Kissimmee or county resident gets?

Since: Jul 12

Saint Cloud, FL

#2 Jul 30, 2012
I have a question. If we pay for a fire truck that seats 4 why do I always see only 2 guys in the trucks?
Tyrone Shoelaces

Columbiana, OH

#3 Jul 30, 2012
needanuchief wrote:
I have a question. If we pay for a fire truck that seats 4 why do I always see only 2 guys in the trucks?
Because Barkenhofer and his dad still haven't been able to pick up any trannies or gays along 192, plus Barkenboy said it makes a lousy low-rider and Ricans spit on them.

Ocoee, FL

#4 Jul 31, 2012
I am a local firefighter from St. Cloud and this post pisses me off. I am pissed off that the chief is running The FD that protects my wife and kids like it's still 1985. I am pissed off that my tax money just bought a million dollar tower truck that is frequently out of service. I am pissed off that I see just two fire fighters in an engine rolling down 192. Wake up Bill! This isn't safe and you'll have blood on your hands when either a citizen or firefighter gets hurt or dies because of these practices. It's just a matter of time...

Parrish, FL

#5 Jul 31, 2012
I am a local firefighter as well. I can honestly say that I am worried about my saftey as a resident when I'm off duty and for the safety of my family when I'm not home due to the careless staffing of the St. Cloud fire rescue department. Not only are they ill equipped (manning-wise) to fight fire, but honestly how safe and effective are they on ems calls? That department needs a new chief bad.

Saint Cloud, FL

#6 Jul 31, 2012
I see the ST. Cloud Fire boys are trying to use social media to stirr things up. Hmm lets see. St. Cloud has multiple fir stations which can and do respond to incidents. Using the older working truck makes sense to save mileage and equipment wear and tear as much as can be until the City budget can allow for more hiring. Course advertise all the extra benefits your brilliant Union has gotten you and everyone will see the increased cost of a fireman- start with counting your sick time towards overtime. Additionally, Everytime the firetruck rolls to a scene so does and ambulance which has at least two people on it. Considering the ambulance personnell are also fire certified you have at least a three man crew to get things started until the other stations arrive. Assuming you rocket science employees are smart enough to hang the paramedic back to monitor truck/patience.

Now if you add that all scenes have police support, and you would cross train them to assist with some of the lesser duties such as monitoring gauges running and hooking hoses (not rocket science work) you'd have adequate staffing. Cross training is done nation wide and works fine. Oh but wait this idea has been presented before and you holy Union boys shot it down because it would slow down positions for you guys and thereby potentially slow promotions.

What a joke and shame bitchin about your department here as FF you should have more respect.
really- a dbag

United States

#7 Jul 31, 2012
Obviously you have no idea how fire and ems work....I bet firemen could train on paving roads and firemen could work for the street dept in their down time. And ff in st cloud are the lowest paid in central Florida.....and the only ones who run two people on a you didn't know that you have to have four people on scene to go into a house the other stations says the dumbass well there are times all three rescues are at the hospital....too bad its not your house they respond to with only two people when it catches fire then maybe you wouldn't be bitchin when they say they need more people.....and ff work 2912 hours a many do u work? 2000? Yeah ff are and ff have cushy benefits....they work 56 hour week average and they shouldn't get their normal pay when they call out you lose money or any job for that matter when you call out sick.....moron

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#8 Jul 31, 2012
Regardless if you are a union supporter, firefighter supporter, ax the tax supporter, or politician there is something wrong here. After reading the posts above (assuming benefit of the doubt) all posts have some sort factual information, it is obvious there was obvious poor planning on the fire administration's part or the city manager is not keeping a close enough eye on fire administration.
750,000 dollar tower truck is out of service more than it is in service due to staffing.(poor planning by fire administration, are they not educated or experienced enough to place a plan into place prior to the acceptance of the tower truck).

St. Cloud Minimum staffing has two firefighters on an engine and two on a ambulance per station (Medical calls make up more of the call volume than fires, so if the ambulance is at the hospital this leaves only two firefighters on the engine to respond.)

Cops and firefighters could not be crossed trained, it would be too expensive.( Unlike other states that have dual certified public safety workers Florida requires Police Officers to be certified, Firefighters to be certified, and Paramedics to be licensed. These certifications and licenses require a large amount of recertification hours and training, which costs even more money.)

St. Cloud Firefighters appear unhappy.( You are correct "really" there is a respect issue with the firefighters. I would bet there is an underlying reason for this and the only way to find out would be to poll the firefighters themselves.)

You have to admit that if all Central Florida Fire Departments respond with 3 person fire engine crews or more regardless if they are crossed trained paramedics that transport to the hospital, why is St. Cloud not doing this? Liability usually falls to the entity that does not follow the "standard". I am sure there is some standard with OSHA or other national organizations these other departments are following.

Saint Cloud, FL

#9 Aug 1, 2012
Being a central Florida firefighter, the thought and possibility of having ONLY 2 PEOPLE show up on a call is absolutely crazy! But "really" some people have no idea what they are talking about. The idea that police and fire should be crossed trained is not safe or effective because when these cross trained firefighters are dealing with a drunk person or a domestic disturbance who is going to be able to run on your fat ass when you have a heart attack. The guide lines are clear in the NFPA, and it seems that the administration is incompetent at their job if they cannot justify getting more personnel. Why can every other department in Florida and the area justify manning and they cannot? The city of St. Cloud has been dropping the ball on a lot of things lately on a whole, and everyone will get what they disserve in the end.
really_needs_a_h ug

Saint Cloud, FL

#10 Aug 2, 2012
"Really", I have a few questions for you. The first would be why do you hate the firefighters? Secondly, do you honestly think it makes sense for the tax payers to pay nearly a million dollars for a truck that is rarely staffed? You obviously know very little about public safety to have made the suggestion to "cross train" cops to put out fires and respond to medical calls. That idea looks great on paper to people who have never done this type of work. In reality it fails to provide an acceptable, safe, and effective service to the people that pay for it. You seem very angry at firefighters. Did somebody not make the cut? Hey "really" why don't you go by one of the stations and see if the guys will let you try on some gear and spray water. Then you can feel all better about not being right.

Saint Cloud, FL

#11 Aug 2, 2012
Tyrone Shoelaces wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Barkenhofer and his dad still haven't been able to pick up any trannies or gays along 192, plus Barkenboy said it makes a lousy low-rider and Ricans spit on them.
Dude, that was a disturbing and racist reply? No one understands who you are talking about.

Saint Cloud, FL

#12 Aug 3, 2012
Oh come on noe FFF? People across this nation are Volunteer FF?s What is the significant difference than having Police trained for certain levels. Example Einstein? at every fire scene you will see personnel manning the pump lines, aiding in switching out tanks. And BTW holding a fire hose running a fire house is not that hard of a concept. You geniuses started this topic thread bitching cause of staffing issues and claiming time on scene as a life threatening event-Since we are talking specifically about St. Cloud Florida. Every fire call the Police are there first. If deploying lines and "water" are important.. then the Police would be a huge help. As for gearing up and going in..well they could be trained for that as well. But remember in St. Cloud both stations can be on scene of a fire inside of 5 minutes. This includes chiefs etc.. so no reason to bitch about staffing. FF is an easy job. Its the actual EMT Paramedics whose jobs are hard.

United States

#13 Aug 3, 2012
Yep "Really" is a cop! Walked right into that one smart guy! I'll bet by the anti-union rhetoric we can all guess "who" this is as well. Switching phasers to ignore. "Really" you are really done!

United States

#14 Aug 3, 2012
Btw everone of us is either an EMT or paramedic. Perhaps an education would be in order before we grow an opinion.

Alachua, FL

#15 Aug 3, 2012
REALLY was a cop who wanted to be a fireman but couldn't make the grade @ either profession. He named his daughter after his girlfriend and his wife was oblivious. Really get your personal life strait & then maybe you will have a chance @ being a professional. As for the cross training the National Institute for Public Safety Research has multiple studies that show that cross training actually decreases the level of police & fire protection. We have facts & statistics that show the current manning tables @ SCFR are dangerous for firefighters and the public. Just because you are hurt because the cross training proposal you presented lacked intelligence, research, & common sense & was ultimately rejected by all chief officers in PD, FD, & city hall does not mean you have hate on the firefighters that do the job you could not. Rose must be about 10 or 11 now. Be nice. Forgive, it is liberating.

North Port, FL

#16 Aug 3, 2012
It's "really" too bad because I truly enjoyed that tv show from the 1960's callef the Munster's. That Eddie kid was a riot! Benherealongtime knows what mean.

Saint Cloud, FL

#17 Aug 3, 2012
It would do "really" well to know that there are three fire stations in saint cloud instead of only two....just saying. Bottom line is I want my husband to be safe on shift and that everyone goes home. The NFPA standards say that you need 18- 21 people for a single story residential structure. How can a chief of a fire department know what the standards are and purposefully ignore them knowing full well that he is putting the lives of his men and the citizen's lives and property at risk? unacceptable.

Saint Cloud, FL

#18 Aug 4, 2012
"Really" you have made it abundantly clear that you are without a doubt an idiot. There are several things you talk about in your posts such as respect, cross training police, bashing the union and calling firefighters both rocket scientists and Einstein in a derogatory way. Lets address some of these...You talk about having respect, you are on here bashing the fire department saying that the job is easy when you obviously have no idea what is required. No one has came back bashing the police department on here because the firefighters aren't so ignorant to believe that there is not more to being a cop than what's seen on the surface. Trust me people have their opinions of police officers too, but unless you have facts you shouldn't run your mouth. Have you ever heard the saying "It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think that you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"?? This applies to YOU. You talk about cross training police to do things, such as, monitoring gauge's and even go so far as to say you should have gear to go into a fire. Judging by your illiterate writing style I don't think you could pass a 5th grade English test, much less grasp the mathematical concepts that go into maintaining proper pressures on multiple hose lines and maintaining an adequate water supply. I know you think it's as easy as putting a hose from a hydrant to the truck, and then a hose from the truck to the fire, but there is much more to it. As far as training you to the point of going into fires and basically being a full blown firefighter how much sense does that really make over just hiring someone who is already qualified for the position. You say they should just wait until the city budget can allow for more hiring. You must be a brainwashed puppet if you don't think that this is possible now, and that's not even the best part...there is a federal grant that would PAY for the HIRING AND ALL associated cost's of those firefighters for 2 years but for some reason the fire administration cannot quite figure out how to make this a reality. By the way "SAFER" stands for "Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response". You should Google that and check it out. You can call firefighter's rocket scientists or Einstein's if you want but once again you show your ignorance without having any evidence to back up your claims. You bash the union because they have gotten the firefighters some benefits. They'll just take your bashing as a compliment. You want to talk about sick time counting towards overtime, let me ask you something, when a 40 hour employee calls in sick does it affect their paycheck? The answer is no. Now, firefighters are running medical calls on sick pt's everyday but when a firefighter gets sick and has to call out you think it's ok for them to loose money. Don't forget the fact that overtime for firefighters does not start after 40 hours of work in a week, it only begins after working 106 hours in a 2 week pay period. Now back to the reason someone started this forum, because there is a new truck that the taxpayers paid for that is out of service more than it is in service due to low staffing levels. The point is the taxpayers, residents, and business owners in the city of St. Cloud deserve to have the same level of response that every other fire department in Central Florida has, and currently it is not happening. There is only one ranking administrative position of which the employee lives within the city limits of St. Cloud, all others chiefs live outside of the City limits. Therefore, if they were to call 911 from home they would get a minimum of 3 personnel on an engine and 2 on a rescue. The only thing being addressed is that St. Cloud Fire Department be brought up to the level of service that all other agencies have in the area.
A union Person

Clermont, FL

#19 Aug 5, 2012
When you bash the Union is shows how little you know. To know what it would be like without unions you will need to do a little research and stop listening to the political hacks. A good many of the people who bash unions have very little first hand knowledge of what unions do. As a union representative I have first hand knowledge of what and how unions work. Do not blame the union because of the failings of your political people.
Oh boy

Saint Cloud, FL

#20 Aug 5, 2012
FF are at it again. Complaining that they do not have enough people. Bull Crap. SC has a great fire rating-explain that away.

As for cross training, well, it is apparently smart idea to have extra help with the hoses etc..little simple tasks that can be taught quickly. The guy who says you have to know great math is obviously full of it. The gauges are installed by the factory- all you do is turn knobs and flip switches..not that hard there buddy. "Really" merely stated having Officers trained to help with those tasks-not be full fledged FF..but I guess you guys cannot read English even when its typed.
As for your pay- you have sick benefits. Difference between you and other workers the sick time you use counts as time worked toward OT; no matter how your pay is derived. To understand this if lets keep up. If a FF was working 40 weeks and called in sick one 8 hours shift, then worked an extra 8 hour shift his total would be 48 hours for the week. The 8 hours over would be paid at time and a half. A normal worker would just get 48 hours straight time. Even a rocket scientist can see this means a FF would make more money.
As for Mr. Beenherelongtime- sure hope you were right on who you think the person is..either way it sounds like you were possibly friends so it would suck that you put personal trash out here over a stupid debate.
As for the statistic major- remember this the studies you quote about multidisciplinary training involves employees doing both disciplines full time- which is not the concept "Really' was referring to.
As for the grant master- the grant is only for 2 years so who pays the salaries after that? The city does so if it is not in the budget why get the grant moron?
Fact is the City FD can easily add extra support by cross training or even instituting a "reserve/part time" style position like the police have. They could even have a volunteer program like other areas of the country do.
As for Mr. union, all the union does in Florida is milk benefits, and keep bad employees.

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