Shores fire dept pay structure
MATHMATICALLY CHALLENGED

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#225 Sep 25, 2010
Private Sector wrote:
<quoted text>
Go find a private sector business spending over 90% of its revenues on wages and benefits and I will show you a bankrupt business.
In the public sector they call them government workers and teachers.
Don't be so quick to call others uneducated and criticize their business sense when yours is severely lacking.
guess what they are not a for profit business it is a completely different standard. And you need to look at the accounting errors in the FD budget. they work more ours than the average 40 hour person. roughly 220 a month without OT. most people work 160.
what

Pickerington, OH

#226 Sep 25, 2010
MATHMATICALLY CHALLENGED wrote:
<quoted text>guess what they are not a for profit business it is a completely different standard. And you need to look at the accounting errors in the FD budget. they work more ours than the average 40 hour person. roughly 220 a month without OT. most people work 160.
http://www.garynull.com/home/20-signs-that-th...
MATHMATICALLY CHALLENGED

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#227 Sep 25, 2010
what wrote:
So lets cut jobs , is that your point !!! Thats all the more reason to have good public services.
Not a boater

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#228 Sep 25, 2010
What's the magical formula for "good public services"? Can someone please tell me that? Why is it 101/50 or 90/50? Do they have to all be top notch employees or can some be phoning it in or incompetent but as long as they're receiving pay checks we're receiving "good public services"?

If one or two people are cut, will that make "bad public services"?
Tired Of Idiots

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#229 Sep 25, 2010
look for car washing wrote:
I will be looking this weekend for employees detailing their vehicles on the clock & using city supplies that are paid for by the tax payers to be used on THE FIRE TRUCKS not personal vehicle's & at close to $900.00 a day in wages i dont want to see that anymore. i will say this weekend i did drive by Both Saturday & Sunday at different times and found NO car washing last week. I have seen on to many other mostly Sundays of fire fighter pulling the red astro van out and their vehicles in and YES THEY ARE BREAKING A SWEAT WASHING AND WAXING THEIR PERSONAL VEHICLES ! Lets hope after the recent Post that theres a stop all together on this etitlement. Just so people know the soap & wax the city buys is very expensive & good thats why the fire fighter use it but thats stealing no matte how you look at it & really should cost someone their Job its not like at 100 grans a year they cant spread a little bit around to the middle class so they can keep their jobs. But I'll be watching and will record and put on Youtube the next time I see this happen! you know your house catches fire in the shores and 2 people go out on the engine while the others finish sham wowing their vehicles because "THEY DONT GET PAID FOR THAT TYPE OF WORK" OR "NOT IN MY PAY GRADE TO GO TO A FIRE" MAKES IT HARD TO SEE THEIR SIDE OF THE COIN!!! I'M VOTING NO, lets hope people who care for this city get out and vote no on BOTH millages and for them to have 2 shows how sneaking and conning they really are!! VOTE NO!!
Again should they make fires and heart attacks!!!
Tired Of Idiots

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#230 Sep 25, 2010
Not a boater wrote:
What's the magical formula for "good public services"? Can someone please tell me that? Why is it 101/50 or 90/50? Do they have to all be top notch employees or can some be phoning it in or incompetent but as long as they're receiving pay checks we're receiving "good public services"?
If one or two people are cut, will that make "bad public services"?
Closing Engine 1 will severely impact response time. SCS has had 3 engines since the 1920's. Before ambulance service.Council speaks around the issue by stating they're not closing a station. In effect they would be, by removing engine 1 from service. we have 13 people on duty. royal oak has 22 or did they now have 18 and no ems. They are the same size. It's time to cut elsewhere. Cut out the precious TIFA, cut back on street repair. Just wait till they come up with the money to teardown shorecrest. If they do that and cut police and fire i'll make sure that they all get recalled and we start from scratch.
Ya ok

Grosse Pointe, MI

#231 Sep 25, 2010
Tired Of Idiots wrote:
<quoted text>Closing Engine 1 will severely impact response time. SCS has had 3 engines since the 1920's. Before ambulance service.Council speaks around the issue by stating they're not closing a station. In effect they would be, by removing engine 1 from service. we have 13 people on duty. royal oak has 22 or did they now have 18 and no ems. They are the same size. It's time to cut elsewhere. Cut out the precious TIFA, cut back on street repair. Just wait till they come up with the money to teardown shorecrest. If they do that and cut police and fire i'll make sure that they all get recalled and we start from scratch.
listen the ambulance problem will be the mot easy to resove & it can be done at almost no cost . Have an outside ambulance company respond to the runs, this will save money by reducing staff reducing ambulance purchase, reducing overtime, reducing retirement reducing health care. If the city truly cares for the taxpayers then lets get some compition in here, right now as it stands ST CLAIR SHORES DOES NOT ALLOW THAT FOR ONLY ONE REASON "MONEY" "MONEY" "MONEY" i say bring them in if this city per the fire chief is 80 oercent rescue/ambulnce runs then lets get some help from the outside. i'm voting No there just seems to be to many ways around a millage increase that this city can do thats only one ideal that would save MILLIONS OF TAX DOLLARS! vote NO make them live within there means!!!!!! VOTE NO
Keep Our EMS Transport

Glendale Heights, IL

#232 Sep 25, 2010
Ya ok wrote:
<quoted text>
listen the ambulance problem will be the mot easy to resove & it can be done at almost no cost . Have an outside ambulance company respond to the runs, this will save money by reducing staff reducing ambulance purchase, reducing overtime, reducing retirement reducing health care. If the city truly cares for the taxpayers then lets get some compition in here, right now as it stands ST CLAIR SHORES DOES NOT ALLOW THAT FOR ONLY ONE REASON "MONEY" "MONEY" "MONEY" i say bring them in if this city per the fire chief is 80 oercent rescue/ambulnce runs then lets get some help from the outside. i'm voting No there just seems to be to many ways around a millage increase that this city can do thats only one ideal that would save MILLIONS OF TAX DOLLARS! vote NO make them live within there means!!!!!! VOTE NO
Yeah Right! Let hire a private ambulance company that does not have units dedicated to the city of St. Clair Shores. You dont know when the private ambulance whould show up. You talk about saving money on purchasing apparatus. The city would be putting more wear and tear on its Fire Engines that would have to show up for every medical run to make sure the patient is OK till Universal or Medstar shows up. Who's gonna be staffing these private ambulances? Folks that just got their paramedic license that did not go through the competitive testing to become a SCS Firefighter / Paramedic. You get what you pay for! I'm not willing to take that risk.
what

Grosse Pointe, MI

#233 Sep 25, 2010
Keep Our EMS Transport wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah Right! Let hire a private ambulance company that does not have units dedicated to the city of St. Clair Shores. You dont know when the private ambulance whould show up. You talk about saving money on purchasing apparatus. The city would be putting more wear and tear on its Fire Engines that would have to show up for every medical run to make sure the patient is OK till Universal or Medstar shows up. Who's gonna be staffing these private ambulances? Folks that just got their paramedic license that did not go through the competitive testing to become a SCS Firefighter / Paramedic. You get what you pay for! I'm not willing to take that risk.
well you make no sense for 1 their other companies at present time dont have a dedicated service here BECAUSE THE CITY WONT ALLOW IT 2.the money we will be saving will leave the city in great shape to maintane the fire trucks 3 who going to be staffing the ambulance's from med star etc MAYBE OUR OLD FIRE FIGHTERS WILL ! i mean if their let go and really care for this city as they all say and all state its for us the tax payers then why would they not apply at the paramedic company that we be assigned to the Shores? and last i checked para-medics are not doctors so they will prep the patient for the ride to the hospital & also i'm sure all are state certified that work on any ambulance SO I GUESS WE WILL BE FINE!! VOTE NO!! SAVE THE CITY FROM GOING UNDER!
KEEP OUR EMS TRANSPORT

Glendale Heights, IL

#234 Sep 25, 2010
what wrote:
<quoted text>
well you make no sense for 1 their other companies at present time dont have a dedicated service here BECAUSE THE CITY WONT ALLOW IT 2.the money we will be saving will leave the city in great shape to maintane the fire trucks 3 who going to be staffing the ambulance's from med star etc MAYBE OUR OLD FIRE FIGHTERS WILL ! i mean if their let go and really care for this city as they all say and all state its for us the tax payers then why would they not apply at the paramedic company that we be assigned to the Shores? and last i checked para-medics are not doctors so they will prep the patient for the ride to the hospital & also i'm sure all are state certified that work on any ambulance SO I GUESS WE WILL BE FINE!! VOTE NO!! SAVE THE CITY FROM GOING UNDER!
Communities who have private ems transport like Ann Arbor, Clinton Twp, and Macomb Twp don't have their private ambulances sitting at multiple locations. Most of the time they are pulled from going in between hospital runs. Paramedics have to act like doctors sometimes under the hospitals authority in the field when it comes to administering drugs and performing intibations. I think if the firefighters get laid off a lot of them would train to become RN's before going to Medstar and making $12 an hour. If they lay off firefigters that staff the ambulance we will be paying more in homeowners insurance beacuse our ISO (Insurance Services Rating) would get worse.
Also

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#235 Sep 25, 2010
KEEP OUR EMS TRANSPORT wrote:
<quoted text>
Communities who have private ems transport like Ann Arbor, Clinton Twp, and Macomb Twp don't have their private ambulances sitting at multiple locations. Most of the time they are pulled from going in between hospital runs. Paramedics have to act like doctors sometimes under the hospitals authority in the field when it comes to administering drugs and performing intibations. I think if the firefighters get laid off a lot of them would train to become RN's before going to Medstar and making $12 an hour. If they lay off firefigters that staff the ambulance we will be paying more in homeowners insurance beacuse our ISO (Insurance Services Rating) would get worse.
What is our ISO rating now?
When do they compute it?
When was the last time it was computed?
What is it based on and how are those factors weighted?
ISO

Glendale Heights, IL

#236 Sep 25, 2010
On a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being the best 10 being the worst. SCS I believe is a 3. Rating criteria is as follows http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/2000/ppc2007...
Also

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#237 Sep 25, 2010
When do they compute the ISO for a community? When was the last time it was computed for SCS.

A lot of the criteria are based on equipment and water supply. The # of firefighters would not effect this.

Criteria is also based on dispatch. I think we would score higher with this now with central dispatch given that they will be using newer, better equipment bought with that grant.

The criteria seems based on fire response and suppression things and not EMS.
Private Sector

United States

#238 Sep 25, 2010
MATHMATICALLY CHALLENGED wrote:
<quoted text>guess what they are not a for profit business it is a completely different standard. And you need to look at the accounting errors in the FD budget. they work more ours than the average 40 hour person. roughly 220 a month without OT. most people work 160.
Nice deflection!

They are also getting 100% funded pension and gold plated health care benefits. You are not going find anyone shedding a tear for them who is spending over $500 a month on health care, has exhausted their retirement fund that they funded. Especially when you are again asking them to continue to pay your way.

You want more, you take the pay cut. The residents don't have anything left to give.
ISO

Glendale Heights, IL

#239 Sep 25, 2010
Also wrote:
When do they compute the ISO for a community? When was the last time it was computed for SCS.
A lot of the criteria are based on equipment and water supply. The # of firefighters would not effect this.
Criteria is also based on dispatch. I think we would score higher with this now with central dispatch given that they will be using newer, better equipment bought with that grant.
The criteria seems based on fire response and suppression things and not EMS.
You dont seem to realize EMS personnel is counted as Fire Personnel. Personnel is 15% of the rating. Dispatching is only 10% of the rating.
Also

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#240 Sep 25, 2010
"The Fire Suppression Rating Schedule (FSRS) measures the major elements of a community's fire-suppression system and develops a numerical grading called a Public Protection Classification (PPCTM)."

This is only about FIRE SUPPRESSION. Not EMS. Why the heck would an insurance company concerned with property damage be concerned with EMS personnel?

The fire insurance rating has nothing to do with EMS.

ISO only recognizes fire training and not EMS.
Combine the departments

Lake Orion, MI

#242 Sep 25, 2010
Hello
Yes on 2

Glendale Heights, IL

#243 Sep 25, 2010
Also wrote:
"The Fire Suppression Rating Schedule (FSRS) measures the major elements of a community's fire-suppression system and develops a numerical grading called a Public Protection Classification (PPCTM)."
This is only about FIRE SUPPRESSION. Not EMS. Why the heck would an insurance company concerned with property damage be concerned with EMS personnel?
The fire insurance rating has nothing to do with EMS.
ISO only recognizes fire training and not EMS.
Firefighter / Paramedic personnel are sometimes used for fighting fires when they are assigned to an ambulance. That's why they are included in the total personnel of the fire department. All firefighters are included in the training process recognized by ISO. Get it through your head SCSFD personnel on the ambulance also fight fires!
Lil

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#244 Sep 25, 2010
Yes on 2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Firefighter / Paramedic personnel are sometimes used for fighting fires when they are assigned to an ambulance. That's why they are included in the total personnel of the fire department. All firefighters are included in the training process recognized by ISO. Get it through your head SCSFD personnel on the ambulance also fight fires!
But it has nothing to do with ISO.
Combine the departments

Lake Orion, MI

#245 Sep 25, 2010
Yes on 2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Firefighter / Paramedic personnel are sometimes used for fighting fires when they are assigned to an ambulance. That's why they are included in the total personnel of the fire department. All firefighters are included in the training process recognized by ISO. Get it through your head SCSFD personnel on the ambulance also fight fires!
And the Police Department will need to train because Im voting NO

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