Who do you support for U.S. Senate in...
Called Out

Dallas, GA

#2431 Jan 21, 2013
Lived there wrote:
Call it by any other name, the "fair tax" is still a consumption tax.
Working well in some states.
Oh really

Young Harris, GA

#2432 Jan 21, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>Tax rates are the same for all.
Technically correct. In practice? Not so much. In my business I can, and do, legally write off things (@ 100%) as a cost of doing business that would get you hauled in for an audit by the IRS or jail if you tried to claim them. Could you do the same? Yes, technically, but you're not in my business, therefore I wouldn't suggest you try.
Want an example? Bribes! In drugs, cash or prostitutes, it's tax deductible so long as I give the/a SS number and name, if known (it doesn't have to be verified), of the person receiving it and there are no questions ever asked. Don't try that at home. BTW, I can also write off liquor, which is really nice, and the travel expenses of a "secretary," never mind if she can type.

How about an actual example; a consortium in the EU, with the parent company in the US, shelters $13 mill in EU profits by buying - get this - a copyright. The seller doesn't have to pay tax (a special exemption) on that but he is required to invest $10 mill in the project once it gets to the states, net, net $3 mill to the seller, which is about right.

The parent company in the US accelerates the depreciation, completes the project, at a loss,(ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?) turns around and sells it to their friends, who skim off the top, then turns around and sells it back to the original purchasers at a loss from time to time, to start the cycle all over again. It's all legal, but my guess is you (and I) don't play in that sand pile.

The point is, while the tax law is technically the same for everyone, the exceptions make it unequal in favor of the wealthy.
.
ME II

Dahlonega, GA

#2433 Jan 21, 2013
Oh really wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically correct. In practice? Not so much. In my business I can, and do, legally write off things (@ 100%) as a cost of doing business that would get you hauled in for an audit by the IRS or jail if you tried to claim them. Could you do the same? Yes, technically, but you're not in my business, therefore I wouldn't suggest you try.
Want an example? Bribes! In drugs, cash or prostitutes, it's tax deductible so long as I give the/a SS number and name, if known (it doesn't have to be verified), of the person receiving it and there are no questions ever asked. Don't try that at home. BTW, I can also write off liquor, which is really nice, and the travel expenses of a "secretary," never mind if she can type.
How about an actual example; a consortium in the EU, with the parent company in the US, shelters $13 mill in EU profits by buying - get this - a copyright. The seller doesn't have to pay tax (a special exemption) on that but he is required to invest $10 mill in the project once it gets to the states, net, net $3 mill to the seller, which is about right.
The parent company in the US accelerates the depreciation, completes the project, at a loss,(ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?) turns around and sells it to their friends, who skim off the top, then turns around and sells it back to the original purchasers at a loss from time to time, to start the cycle all over again. It's all legal, but my guess is you (and I) don't play in that sand pile.
The point is, while the tax law is technically the same for everyone, the exceptions make it unequal in favor of the wealthy.
.
You are absolutely correct on all this. I worked for years for companies and you should have seen the tax deductions they would take. Like you said, most of us would be in jail as individuals if we tried the stuff that some businesses do.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2434 Jan 21, 2013
ME II wrote:
<quoted text>
You are absolutely correct on all this. I worked for years for companies and you should have seen the tax deductions they would take. Like you said, most of us would be in jail as individuals if we tried the stuff that some businesses do.
If you're not audited, it doesn't matter what deductions you take.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2435 Jan 21, 2013
Oh really wrote:
<quoted text>
Technically correct. In practice? Not so much. In my business I can, and do, legally write off things (@ 100%) as a cost of doing business that would get you hauled in for an audit by the IRS or jail if you tried to claim them. Could you do the same? Yes, technically, but you're not in my business, therefore I wouldn't suggest you try.
Want an example? Bribes! In drugs, cash or prostitutes, it's tax deductible so long as I give the/a SS number and name, if known (it doesn't have to be verified), of the person receiving it and there are no questions ever asked. Don't try that at home. BTW, I can also write off liquor, which is really nice, and the travel expenses of a "secretary," never mind if she can type.
How about an actual example; a consortium in the EU, with the parent company in the US, shelters $13 mill in EU profits by buying - get this - a copyright. The seller doesn't have to pay tax (a special exemption) on that but he is required to invest $10 mill in the project once it gets to the states, net, net $3 mill to the seller, which is about right.
The parent company in the US accelerates the depreciation, completes the project, at a loss,(ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?) turns around and sells it to their friends, who skim off the top, then turns around and sells it back to the original purchasers at a loss from time to time, to start the cycle all over again. It's all legal, but my guess is you (and I) don't play in that sand pile.
The point is, while the tax law is technically the same for everyone, the exceptions make it unequal in favor of the wealthy.
.
Actually, unless the rules have changed in the short time period since I retired I don't think they have), you have to issue a form 1099 for payments totaling over $600 made to a non-corporation, non-employee, unless the payment is for a tangible item (like a computer).

Also, the SS # or FEIN # are supposed to be verified, you're supposed to get a form W-9 from vendors.

In order for you to deduct something as a valid business expense paid to an individual, it must be "picked up" as income by that person.

All that being said, it's irrelevant to what I said about tax rates being the same for all. The above discussions about deductions are about items used in determining what TAXABLE income is and have no impact whatsoever as to what the tax rate is. Apples and oranges.

The tax rate for your C corp is the same as the tax rate for my (former C corp), Home Depot, GE, etc.
Oh really

Young Harris, GA

#2436 Jan 21, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're not audited, it doesn't matter what deductions you take.
If you stay within the law, as I do, no problems.
Bored

Dawsonville, GA

#2437 Jan 21, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
All that anger.
Relax, nothing is going to change as long as we keep voting for the same people owned by the same corporations.
This doesn't have to be complicated.
Pick a tax rate, any tax rate, and make everyone pay the same tax rate on all income from all sources:
wages, short-term capital gains, long-term capital gains, bonuses, options, grants, hedge fund gains, inheritances, gifts, barter. Everything.
No deductions, for anything, anytime, for anyone.
How hard is that ?
How can that be "unfair"
Let's call it the "RFT" - the Really Fair Tax.
Boring
Oh really

Young Harris, GA

#2438 Jan 21, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>

The tax rate for your C corp is the same as the tax rate for my (former C corp), Home Depot, GE, etc.
Yeah, but what I can deduct and what you can, or could when you were working, is different.

The big difference is in the accounting and legal counsel, and tax breaks. You're under the mistaken impression that "the law" applies equally to everyone. It does - until the special (accounting) conditions, the details and tax breaks, kick in.

Remember, bean-counters rule the world!

Aside: GE doesn't pay corporate tax, HD does, a little.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/ec...
ME II

Dahlonega, GA

#2439 Jan 21, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, unless the rules have changed in the short time period since I retired I don't think they have), you have to issue a form 1099 for payments totaling over $600 made to a non-corporation, non-employee, unless the payment is for a tangible item (like a computer).
Also, the SS # or FEIN # are supposed to be verified, you're supposed to get a form W-9 from vendors.
In order for you to deduct something as a valid business expense paid to an individual, it must be "picked up" as income by that person.
All that being said, it's irrelevant to what I said about tax rates being the same for all. The above discussions about deductions are about items used in determining what TAXABLE income is and have no impact whatsoever as to what the tax rate is. Apples and oranges.
The tax rate for your C corp is the same as the tax rate for my (former C corp), Home Depot, GE, etc.
OK, enough with the double talk... Basically, the rich and big companies find a lot more ways to reduce their TAXABLE income than most of the regular Joes out there.

When I worked for a big company, I, as an individual worker, didn't have many ways to claim tax deductions. Now that I have my own business, I find that I can write off most anything. Business lunches?? Oh yeah, I can deduct that. But those every day Joes can't.
Oh really

Young Harris, GA

#2440 Jan 21, 2013
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
you have to issue a form 1099 for payments totaling over $600 made to a non-corporation, non-employee, unless the payment is for a tangible item (like a computer).
Also, the SS # or FEIN # are supposed to be verified, you're supposed to get a form W-9 from vendors.
In order for you to deduct something as a valid business expense paid to an individual, it must be "picked up" as income by that person.
Those are the rules you may (or may not) go by, but they're not mine, according to the IRS.
Oh really

Young Harris, GA

#2441 Jan 21, 2013
ME II wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, enough with the double talk... Basically, the rich and big companies find a lot more ways to reduce their TAXABLE income than most of the regular Joes out there.
When I worked for a big company, I, as an individual worker, didn't have many ways to claim tax deductions. Now that I have my own business, I find that I can write off most anything. Business lunches?? Oh yeah, I can deduct that. But those every day Joes can't.
Tell me about it. I know of one contract that called for escrow accounts be funded for the person's children and grand children (a Ricky Fund)- and at the time of signing, he and his wife had neither, but it helped turn a net loss (NOT a misprint), which was needed (which became another deduction, a capital loss). It was all legal too.

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#2442 Jan 21, 2013
ME II wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, enough with the double talk... Basically, the rich and big companies find a lot more ways to reduce their TAXABLE income than most of the regular Joes out there.
When I worked for a big company, I, as an individual worker, didn't have many ways to claim tax deductions. Now that I have my own business, I find that I can write off most anything. Business lunches?? Oh yeah, I can deduct that. But those every day Joes can't.
So! Are you taking those deductions?
ME II

Dahlonega, GA

#2443 Jan 21, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
So! Are you taking those deductions?
Sure I am. But we all know it really, really isn't fair to take such deductions when the working man can't.
jeb stuart

Jesup, GA

#2444 Jan 21, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
So! Are you taking those deductions?
good point,syn.some of these posts seem to me to suggest that no one is breaking the law unless they get caught doing so.
martini olive

Sylacauga, AL

#2445 Jan 21, 2013
Well then, you're just as low as imprisoned inmates filing millions in false tax returns. And you boast about it? How disgusting?
ME II

Dahlonega, GA

#2446 Jan 21, 2013
martini olive wrote:
Well then, you're just as low as imprisoned inmates filing millions in false tax returns. And you boast about it? How disgusting?
You talking to me? All I said is that I take any LEGAL deduction I can, like business lunches, etc. But as I say, it isn't really fair to the normal, everyday working man, is it?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2447 Jan 21, 2013
Oh really wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, but what I can deduct and what you can, or could when you were working, is different.
The big difference is in the accounting and legal counsel, and tax breaks. You're under the mistaken impression that "the law" applies equally to everyone. It does - until the special (accounting) conditions, the details and tax breaks, kick in.
Remember, bean-counters rule the world!
Aside: GE doesn't pay corporate tax, HD does, a little.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/ec...
Yep. I am (or was) one of those bean counters, CFO for several companies. I've signed more tax returns than the number of days the POTUSA has been in office...

The GE tax situation has been addressed ad nauseum in here.

To say GE doesn't pay corporate tax (based upon one year, 2010 I believe) is misinformed about how the tax system works (NOLs, investment credits, etc.).
martini olive

Sylacauga, AL

#2448 Jan 21, 2013
Sure you do. You cry every night for the "every day working" family, dont you?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2449 Jan 21, 2013
ME II wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, enough with the double talk... Basically, the rich and big companies find a lot more ways to reduce their TAXABLE income than most of the regular Joes out there.
When I worked for a big company, I, as an individual worker, didn't have many ways to claim tax deductions. Now that I have my own business, I find that I can write off most anything. Business lunches?? Oh yeah, I can deduct that. But those every day Joes can't.
Business meals are not 100% deductible, but I'm sure you were aware of that...

Oh yeah, you're still spending the money for those expenses, unless it's a 100% write off (or credit), the expenses outweigh the tax benefits. But I bet you knew that, too...

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2450 Jan 21, 2013
Bill said: "The tax rate for your C corp is the same as the tax rate for my (former C corp), Home Depot, GE, etc."
Oh really wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah,...
'nuff said.

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