Concealed carry in Boro's schools - not a matter of IF but WHEN

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1st responders R us

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Jul 24, 2013
 

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Monday July 22, 2013
EDGEWOOD SCHOOLS PASSES CONCEALED CARRY POLICY

Edgewood City Schools has become the first Southwest Ohio school district, and at least the second in the state, to pass a concealed carry law, allowing administrators to carry firearms in school buildings and on school grounds.

School board members voted, 4-0, Monday to approve the policy that will allow on a voluntary basis principals, assistant principals, deans of students and certain central office personnel to carry loaded firearms in the district’s five school buildings. Teachers are not eligible under the new policy because that would require negotiation with the union on a separate contract, Superintendent Doug Lantz said.

And while armed principals could soon be walking Edgewood’s hallways, Lantz said that likely won’t be the case when classes start this fall. To be eligible to carry a handgun, district administrators must first pass a specific set of training classes, even if he or she already has a concealed carry license.
No current administrators in the district would be eligible yet under those terms, Lantz said.

“As far as the coming school year, nobody’s in any type of training program and no one is deputized, so quite frankly it’s kind of a moot point, as far as concealed carry,” he said.
Arming teachers as a way to improve student safety became a topic of debate in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shootings in December in Newtown, Conn. Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones made headlines when he pushed for armed personnel in schools, and threatened to pull his support from local school levy campaigns if no districts put that proposal in action.

Jones applauded Edgewood’s new policy and said he expects more districts to follow suit.

“I support it 100 percent. They should have done it a long time ago. I wonder what took them so long,” said Jones, who increased sheriff deputy patrols around county schools last year.“They’re the first one in this region to do it. But what I’m hearing is there’s more coming.”

Board member Jim Miller said that numerous school shooting incidents, including the one at Sandy Hook tragedy, prompted the board to take action.“After a number of incidents with schools and kids being the target of violence, we thought an extra precaution should be taken to protect our kids,” Miller said.
Miller, who is also the board’s liaison to Butler Tech, said other districts took interest in Edgewood’s policy, particularly Lakota Local Schools.

Miller would not say which school employees might be taking the training because “one of the benefits to having (the policy) is for people to not know who has had it. I think that, in itself, is a deterrent. But I will tell you that we have had interest from a number of administrators.”

(CONTINUED.)
1st responders R us

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Jul 24, 2013
 

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Monday, July 22, 2013
EDGEWOOD SCHOOLS PASSES CONCEALED CARRY POLICY

(part 2)

Officials across Ohio’s 614 school districts have been focused on boosting school security over the past six months. But not until earlier this month, when Newcomerstown Schools in Tuscarawas County approved a similar policy, had a school district gone so far as to adopt a concealed carry policy.

According to Edgewood’s policy, the administrator who wants the training must first be authorized by the school board. They then must obtain a concealed carry license from the state. If they already have that license, they must also have basic peace officer certification from the Ohio Officer Training Academy, or 20 years of experience as a law enforcement officer.

The cost for the training must be paid for by the administrator with his or her own funds, Lantz said.

Those administrators approved to carry a firearm must notify the board immediately if their concealed carry license is suspended, revoked or surrendered. Proof of renewal must be submitted to the board, according to the policy.

If an administrator is approved to carry a firearm, they are not allowed to have said firearm at school events hosted by other districts unless the other district’s board grants written permission. Administrators possessing a valid concealed carry license are permitted to maintain a firearm within their vehicle on school premises.
its a different world

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Jul 24, 2013
 

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Sorry to break this news to you Mrs. Curry, but the children of the 21st century aren't going to school with Ricky Nelson and "Beaver" Cleaver.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/butler-co...
We Deplore Kelly

Springboro, OH

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Jul 24, 2013
 

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We can just ship them Kohls and Rigano in November, those gun slingers won't be needed here anymore!
first responders R us

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Jul 25, 2013
 

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We Deplore Kelly wrote:
We can just ship them Kohls and Rigano in November, those gun slingers won't be needed here anymore!
Our childrens safety is as stake and you immediately bastardize the debate toward your political hard-on? Are you one of "those" who lacks the foresight to seriously address preventive safety measures to pro-actively protect kids in our schools? I suppose it's your "hope" that a Columbine or a Sandyhook would never occurs here. No! Of course something as terrible as that could NEVER happen here in Springboro. You can bet the ranch the fine folks of Newtown CT felt much this same way before Adam Lanzo blasted his way through Sandyhook's front window glass. Oh yeah, that's right, Lanzo didn't bother utilizing Sandyhook's front door security buzzer system.

Make no mistake about it - the most effective way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Springboro school district has six (6) instructional facilities. Springboro school district has one (1) resource officer.
If a Klebold or a Lanzo situation were ever to occur here, what is the chance of 1 resource officer being lucky enough to be in the right school at the right time to hopefully thwart or disarm an attack?

Rounded up to the next digit the answer is 17%
I know I don't like that number very much.
DO YOU??

No school district can be made to be 100% secure, but Springboro's 17% factor can be made to be a lot better. Concealed carry for select administrators and staff makes sense as a first line of defense against attackers as well as a very logical supplement to existing first responder procedures already set into place by law enforcement and EMS.
Real Solutions

Springboro, OH

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Jul 25, 2013
 

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first responders R us wrote:
<quoted text>
Our childrens safety is as stake and you immediately bastardize the debate toward your political hard-on? Are you one of "those" who lacks the foresight to seriously address preventive safety measures to pro-actively protect kids in our schools? I suppose it's your "hope" that a Columbine or a Sandyhook would never occurs here. No! Of course something as terrible as that could NEVER happen here in Springboro. You can bet the ranch the fine folks of Newtown CT felt much this same way before Adam Lanzo blasted his way through Sandyhook's front window glass. Oh yeah, that's right, Lanzo didn't bother utilizing Sandyhook's front door security buzzer system.
Make no mistake about it - the most effective way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Springboro school district has six (6) instructional facilities. Springboro school district has one (1) resource officer.
If a Klebold or a Lanzo situation were ever to occur here, what is the chance of 1 resource officer being lucky enough to be in the right school at the right time to hopefully thwart or disarm an attack?
Rounded up to the next digit the answer is 17%
I know I don't like that number very much.
DO YOU??
No school district can be made to be 100% secure, but Springboro's 17% factor can be made to be a lot better. Concealed carry for select administrators and staff makes sense as a first line of defense against attackers as well as a very logical supplement to existing first responder procedures already set into place by law enforcement and EMS.
The real solution is to have a police officer in each school building. It only makes sense to have someone who has the training and experience to properly handle a weapon AND deter, detect, and detain a would be assailant. Haphazardly giving 25 year old elementary school teachers a firearm is going to do nothing to curb the problem, it will only introduce a new hazard that didn't previously exist in the school. It's not just having firearms in school, it's having the right people with firearms in school if you want to make a true difference in this type of attack.
1st responders R us

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Jul 25, 2013
 

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Real Solutions wrote:
<quoted text>
The real solution is to have a police officer in each school building. It only makes sense to have someone who has the training and experience to properly handle a weapon AND deter, detect, and detain a would be assailant. Haphazardly giving 25 year old elementary school teachers a firearm is going to do nothing to curb the problem, it will only introduce a new hazard that didn't previously exist in the school. It's not just having firearms in school, it's having the right people with firearms in school if you want to make a true difference in this type of attack.
Wait!! Did I miss something?!? What school district's board has voted to "haphazardly give 25 old elementary teachers a firearm"?
Before you jump to such rash conclusions please check with the boards of education at Edgewood schools in Butler county or Montpelier schools in Williams County. Obviously you're about illustrating false pictures of reality.

Something you fail to take into consideration is that theres a significant portion of the civilian population thats highly adept, highly confident, and very responsible with the use of their personal firearms. Add to that equation rigorous state-certified concealed carry courses and what do you get? You get VOLUNTEER school administrators, janitors, counselors (etc) who can serve as the children's and staff's defenders DURING THE PAINFULLY LONG FIRST SECONDS of a school intruder gun attack.


Have a police officer staged in each school building of each district? Great! Tremendous idea! Lots of luck with securing the necessary capital! Taxpayers in general aren't going to go for that tab. And no, before you respond, neither the state of Ohio nor Vice Pres "anti-gun" Biden are going to fork out the grants for 1 resource officer per each school building for every district in the nation. Obviously this Fed administration is all about taking guns away from people which of course would make us and our schoolchildren even more susceptible to potential suicidal school gun attacks. Certainly I'm for funding more and better mental health support and at earlier ages, but even after a period of time such programs are successful, there's still the unknown factor of how many truly disturbed individuals exist in any given community at any time and how they move from area to area.

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Jul 26, 2013
 

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Real Solutions wrote:
<quoted text>
The real solution is to have a police officer in each school building. It only makes sense to have someone who has the training and experience to properly handle a weapon AND deter, detect, and detain a would be assailant. Haphazardly giving 25 year old elementary school teachers a firearm is going to do nothing to curb the problem, it will only introduce a new hazard that didn't previously exist in the school. It's not just having firearms in school, it's having the right people with firearms in school if you want to make a true difference in this type of attack.
What's this 'haphazardly' nonsense? No one suggested just giving a gun to a teacher and saying 'have at it.' Any reasonable solutions that I have seen have all require making sure teachers are properly trained. Comments like yours do nothing but stir up unnecessary fear.

By the way, Columbine had two armed guards with the training and experience to properly handle a weapon AND deter, detect, and detain. In spite of all that training how did that one turn out? Maybe an armed teacher could have helped. We'll never know.
Really

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Jul 26, 2013
 

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1st responders R us wrote:
<quoted text>
You get VOLUNTEER school administrators, janitors, counselors (etc) who can serve as the children's and staff's defenders DURING THE PAINFULLY LONG FIRST SECONDS of a school intruder gun attack.
So we can't afford what we really need, which is a uniformed police presence in each school, but we can afford so many other non-instructional positions such as athletics, administration, support, curriculum, etc??

I'm not sure giving a gun to the janitor seems like a bright idea...keep in mind the best he was able to do for himself in life is a job scrubbing urinals for minimum wage. And we want him to be our children's line of defense??
1st responders R us

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#10
Jul 26, 2013
 
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure giving a gun to the janitor seems like a bright idea...keep in mind the best he was able to do for himself in life is a job scrubbing urinals for minimum wage. And we want him to be our children's line of defense??
If Webster's had a definition for "elitist heartless bastard", a picture of you would be directly beside it.

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Jul 26, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So we can't afford what we really need, which is a uniformed police presence in each school, but we can afford so many other non-instructional positions such as athletics, administration, support, curriculum, etc??
I'm not sure giving a gun to the janitor seems like a bright idea...keep in mind the best he was able to do for himself in life is a job scrubbing urinals for minimum wage. And we want him to be our children's line of defense??
If the janitor that can do no better in life than janitorial work is not qualified then he/she won't be given the right nor responsibility to carry in a school. It's not like a school would just throw a gun at someone and let them carry. And it's not like they aren't required to take classes and pass a competency test. My guess is there are some janitors out there that are really really good shots. And if they are competent and all that stands between me and the bullet from some bad dude I could care less if they are a janitor, a pilot, a congressman or a professional sniper.
1st responders R us

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Jul 27, 2013
 

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Lerxst- wrote:
<quoted text>
If the janitor that can do no better in life than janitorial work is not qualified then he/she won't be given the right nor responsibility to carry in a school. It's not like a school would just throw a gun at someone and let them carry. And it's not like they aren't required to take classes and pass a competency test. My guess is there are some janitors out there that are really really good shots. And if they are competent and all that stands between me and the bullet from some bad dude I could care less if they are a janitor, a pilot, a congressman or a professional sniper.
Of course each school district has distinctly different personnel. We all know school districts vary greatly in number of students. One district may have a half dozen administrators who possess strong gun skills. In another district the skilled gun handlers may be determined to be a select small group of teachers, a janitor, a coach, and a counselor. Because of this inherent difference in personel, boards of education must customize their defensive concealed carry policies.

Getting back to janitors. The school board of Montpelier Exempted Villige Schools apparently has full trust in their district's janitors.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Education/2013/01/...

MONTPELIER, Ohio - The Montpelier Exempted Village Schools Board of Education has approved the carrying of handguns by its custodial staff.

The 5-0 vote of the board Wednesday night to allow handgun training for four custodians to be able to tote weapons at the K-12 campus at the Williams County school came after last month's deadly shooting rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.

School officials say that having armed personnel - believed to be the first for any school system in Ohio - is designed to thwart incidents of violence and prevent what happened in Newtown, Conn., from occurring here.

"Sitting back and doing nothing and hoping it doesn't happen to you is just not good policy anymore. There is a need for schools to beef up their security measures," Supertendent Jamie Grime told The Blade today. "Having guns in the hands of the right people are not a hindrance. They are a means to protect."

School board President Larry Martin said that while the school distict began looking into arming employees about six months ago, the board didn't announce the concept publicly until Wednesday's monthly meeting.

He said the Dec. 14 massacre of 20 children and six staff at Sandy Hook heightened the decision to put the resolution on the board agenda.

"Our main goal is to offer safety for our students while they are in the classrooms and in the buiding," Mr. Martin said. "We have to do something and this seems like the most logical, reasonable course to go with."

Before voting on the resolution, which was approved 5-0, village Police Chief Jeffrey Lehman met with the board and superintendent in executive session to provide advice, suggestions, and his professional opinion, said Mr. Martin, a school board member for 20 years.

School officials also reviewed the resolution with the district's Cincinnati-based law firm, Ennis, Roberts, and Fischer, LPA, to determine whether gun possession by janitors in the classroom is legal under the state's concealed-carry license law.

Mr. Grime said their legal counsel advised that Ohio's gun law allows for school boards to authorize employees to possess weapons on school grounds if they pass the requirements of the concealed-carry law.

The school district will pay for the employees to undergo a two-day training class in mid March, when instructors with the Tactical Defense Institute of West Union, Ohio, will give them a defense class on handgun use in Montpelier.
the bankrupt kohls

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Jul 28, 2013
 

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first responders R us wrote:
<quoted text>
Our childrens safety is as stake and you immediately bastardize the debate toward your political hard-on? Are you one of "those" who lacks the foresight to seriously address preventive safety measures to pro-actively protect kids in our schools? I suppose it's your "hope" that a Columbine or a Sandyhook would never occurs here. No! Of course something as terrible as that could NEVER happen here in Springboro. You can bet the ranch the fine folks of Newtown CT felt much this same way before Adam Lanzo blasted his way through Sandyhook's front window glass. Oh yeah, that's right, Lanzo didn't bother utilizing Sandyhook's front door security buzzer system.
Make no mistake about it - the most effective way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Springboro school district has six (6) instructional facilities. Springboro school district has one (1) resource officer.
If a Klebold or a Lanzo situation were ever to occur here, what is the chance of 1 resource officer being lucky enough to be in the right school at the right time to hopefully thwart or disarm an attack?
Rounded up to the next digit the answer is 17%
I know I don't like that number very much.
DO YOU??
No school district can be made to be 100% secure, but Springboro's 17% factor can be made to be a lot better. Concealed carry for select administrators and staff makes sense as a first line of defense against attackers as well as a very logical supplement to existing first responder procedures already set into place by law enforcement and EMS.
you bring up sandy hook....were these union teachers? I thought you deplore anyone indoctrinated by union greed. aren't union employees full of selfishness? don't teachers refuse to put children first and instead only look out for themselves? shame on you...I would trust a union teacher to protect the life of my child over the school board who appear to care more about promoting themselves. would petroni, kohls or rigano step between a shooter and your child or would they demand the school staff get right on that - after all they are in charge and no one is supposed to challenge them, right? the sandy hook staff was selfless....take a look around. does this board resemble selfless a all????
sheep

Springboro, OH

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Jul 29, 2013
 

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the bankrupt kohls wrote:
<quoted text>
you bring up sandy hook....were these union teachers? I thought you deplore anyone indoctrinated by union greed. aren't union employees full of selfishness? don't teachers refuse to put children first and instead only look out for themselves? shame on you...I would trust a union teacher to protect the life of my child over the school board who appear to care more about promoting themselves. would petroni, kohls or rigano step between a shooter and your child or would they demand the school staff get right on that - after all they are in charge and no one is supposed to challenge them, right? the sandy hook staff was selfless....take a look around. does this board resemble selfless a all????
Great point. Most people on here think that teachers cannot even teach (which is what they are trained and educated to do), but have no problem whatsoever putting a gun in their hands. Totally crazy and backwards.

And I would wonder what the school's insurance company would think about adopting a policy whereby teachers can carry?

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Jul 29, 2013
 

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sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Great point.
I wasn't aware that the sandy hook board of education was there defending the children as the bullets were flying.
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people on here think that teachers cannot even teach (which is what they are trained and educated to do), but have no problem whatsoever putting a gun in their hands. Totally crazy and backwards.
A completely baseless assumption and comparison.
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would wonder what the school's insurance company would think about adopting a policy whereby teachers can carry?
Ask them. Shouldn't be too hard to find out.
1st responders R us

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Jul 30, 2013
 

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sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would wonder what the school's insurance company would think about adopting a policy whereby teachers can carry?
Lerxst's reply is spot on.
The insurance carrier for Edgewood schools in nearby Butler county certainly must be on board with Edgewood's custom concealed carry policy. The insurance carrier for Montpelier schools in Williams county must be on board with Montpelier's custom concealed carry policy for select janitors in their district. Call them.
don

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#18
Jul 31, 2013
 
We Deplore Kelly wrote:
We can just ship them Kohls and Rigano in November, those gun slingers won't be needed here anymore!
fyi, rigano's board seat isnt up for election until 2015

“Civic Innovation Designer”

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Jul 31, 2013
 

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This it's a ridiculous conversation to be having in the context of our public schools. While it's true that there are responsible gun carrying members of the community, as wise educator once said, it's not your job to prepare children for the harshness of reality but to teach them a better way.

The strategic plan I proposed for Springboro to build a 21st century school system focus on safety as a key tenet in educating the whole child. You can read more about here in the vision statement:

http://christopherritter.github.io/sccs-strat...

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Open Springboro wrote:
This it's a ridiculous conversation to be having in the context of our public schools. While it's true that there are responsible gun carrying members of the community, as wise educator once said, it's not your job to prepare children for the harshness of reality but to teach them a better way.
The strategic plan I proposed for Springboro to build a 21st century school system focus on safety as a key tenet in educating the whole child. You can read more about here in the vision statement:
http://christopherritter.github.io/sccs-strat...
I appreciate and respect your comments on this , but with all due respect why is this a ridiculous conversation to be having? The reality of today is that there are shooters entering schools. Blinding kids to that reality borders on teacher/school system malpractice. Sure, teach a better way (whatever that is), but I wonder if Plato ever has someone come in to his classroom intent on killing every last person in that room.

The concept of your plan is reasonable. Everyone wants a safe environment for their child. What I did not see on your site (maybe I missed it) was HOW they are to be kept safe. Note that many school shootings, knifings, etc. that we are witness to these days are happening in schools where there were multiple guards on duty, metal detectors, locked doors, etc. Safety is a nice concept, but what is the last line of defense when all else fails? And it has failed.
1st responders R us

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Aug 1, 2013
 

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Open Springboro wrote:
This it's a ridiculous conversation to be having in the context of our public schools. While it's true that there are responsible gun carrying members of the community, as wise educator once said, it's not your job to prepare children for the harshness of reality but to teach them a better way.
The "wise educator" from the past you make reference to obviously had zero grasp of Columbine, Va Tech or Sandy Hook.

Open Springboro, how exactly do you define "better way"?
hmm, let me guess...ah!...gun control!

I'd be 100% for gun control if taking guns away meant criminals couldn't have access to them either. However, this is impossible. If law abiding people turned in their guns, the only people left with guns in this nation would be criminals, terrorists, law enforcement and the military. Forcing arms out of the hands of civilians is a recipe for disaster. Just like today's illegal drugs and prohibition era alcohol, if someone wanted an illegal gun they wouldn't have to look too hard nor spend too much to find one. The law of supply and demand rules supreme in this land, whether the economic activity is legitimate or underground.

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