Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#20933 Oct 6, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The way our Constitution was originally written, the only people that had religious restrictions was Congress, nobody else. That's why you've never seen the clause "Separation of Church and State" anywhere in the Constitution. It doesn't exist. In fact, when the Constitution was ratified, several states had an adopted religion already.
But since the Constitution was bastardized to somehow mean Congress meant teachers and schools too...
Yeah, that was after some public schools started to have mandatory prayers, so that (regardless of your personal beliefs) students were forced to "mouth words." Some felt that this was offensive. In two landmark decisions, Engel v. Vitale (1962) and Abington School District v. Schempp (1963), the US Supreme Court found that forcing students to pray violated the First Amendmentís Establishment Clause. Nothing in it kept students from praying. But it did prohibit school or state sponsored prayer.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#20934 Oct 6, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, that was after some public schools started to have mandatory prayers, so that (regardless of your personal beliefs) students were forced to "mouth words." Some felt that this was offensive. In two landmark decisions, Engel v. Vitale (1962) and Abington School District v. Schempp (1963), the US Supreme Court found that forcing students to pray violated the First Amendmentís Establishment Clause. Nothing in it kept students from praying. But it did prohibit school or state sponsored prayer.
The problem here is that it was not Congress that prohibited or endorsed such prayer. Congress is a federal entity while schools were a local entity. Congress has nothing to do with states or local municipalities or how those local governments run their schools.

The restrictions or permissions of local schools have nothing to do with the federal government sponsoring a religion. Again, the intent of the founders was that the federal government not sponsor or write federal laws with religion in mind.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#20935 Oct 6, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is that it was not Congress that prohibited or endorsed such prayer. Congress is a federal entity while schools were a local entity. Congress has nothing to do with states or local municipalities or how those local governments run their schools.
The restrictions or permissions of local schools have nothing to do with the federal government sponsoring a religion. Again, the intent of the founders was that the federal government not sponsor or write federal laws with religion in mind.
A majority of the Supreme Court disagreed with you, and that's the opinion that counts. The Supreme Court considered the question of how the Establishment Clause applied to the states in 1947, in Everson v. Board of Education, when the court determined that the first amendment applied to the states as well as Congress.

Writing for the majority, Justice Hugo Black stated:
"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everson_v._Board...
Pops

Newport, KY

#20937 Oct 7, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is that it was not Congress that prohibited or endorsed such prayer. Congress is a federal entity while schools were a local entity. Congress has nothing to do with states or local municipalities or how those local governments run their schools.
The restrictions or permissions of local schools have nothing to do with the federal government sponsoring a religion. Again, the intent of the founders was that the federal government not sponsor or write federal laws with religion in mind.
Sry, Not quite true. Briefly asked, why is there a Dept of Education in D.C. if they have nothing to do with local schools? I also can't see how reduced & free meals could not at least influence any school that recieves them.
That would seem a good reason for school vouchers...freedom away from the Feds!
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20938 Oct 7, 2013
Canton4President wrote:
<quoted text>
More "predictions" from our local Nostrodumbass. What's your batting average right now, Bunny Foo Foo? I forget...
Meanwhile, back in the REAL reality, gas prices are almost a dollar less than when GW Bush was in and it was $4.00 a gallon. Refresh my memory, little McVeigh. How long ago was that?
you lie as always.

you have no memory.

I predict the government is shut down today.

It is a scream to pick Obama's lowest price in 5 years against the highest under Bush.

Since you wait 5 years to post Obama's price, why did you forget gas under $2 under Bush?
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#20939 Oct 7, 2013
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Sry, Not quite true. Briefly asked, why is there a Dept of Education in D.C. if they have nothing to do with local schools? I also can't see how reduced & free meals could not at least influence any school that recieves them.
That would seem a good reason for school vouchers...freedom away from the Feds!
Yeah, look at Whitehat right here in Ohio, boils down to more corporate welfare. One of Kasich's biggest donor's, for profit charter schools, paid for with taxpayers money.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20940 Oct 7, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, look at Whitehat right here in Ohio, boils down to more corporate welfare. One of Kasich's biggest donor's, for profit charter schools, paid for with taxpayers money.
what does it matter?
D Snyder

Columbus, OH

#20941 Oct 7, 2013
I would vote for Ted Strickland If he was running for Gov. again!
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#20942 Oct 7, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
what does it matter?
There's Your Sign, now we all know who doesn't live with reality. That was too easy.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20943 Oct 7, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>There's Your Sign, now we all know who doesn't live with reality. That was too easy.
I was just quoting Hillary Clintoon.

How does it feel to be baited?

Democrats shun reality, and it was fun to see your agreement.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20944 Oct 7, 2013
D Snyder wrote:
I would vote for Ted Strickland If he was running for Gov. again!
I would vote for George Washington for president if he was alive. Thomas Jefferson too.
UVoted4BushTwice

Canton, OH

#20945 Oct 7, 2013
Slim Fensterbrecher wrote:
<quoted text>
It's because this president is the only president to continually shove down the throat of uneducated Americans that it's still Bush fault. You weak feeble minded low income liberals can't see past the truth. You wouldn't dare say anything contradictory against your party. Wake up and quit being robots people. Both parties suck. If you re-elect an incumbent you are an idiot. Both parties are acting like spoiled 12 year-old girls. The liberal media is feeding you crap and the conservative media is not telling all the facts because the Liberals won't talk to them.
Blah blah blah...I'm not even a Liberal. What you call the "Liberal" media, we call the majority of America's view. Much like how you call the smartest people in our nation, professors and scientists, commies. Go invest in a water walking Jewish zombie. The rest of us statistically proven higher IQ folks have already put your whole belief system out to pasture.
UVoted4BushTwice

Canton, OH

#20946 Oct 7, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
I would vote for George Washington for president if he was alive. Thomas Jefferson too.
Yah but you would vote for Timothy McVeigh if he was still alive.
UVoted4BushTwice

Canton, OH

#20947 Oct 7, 2013
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
you lie as always.
you have no memory.
I predict the government is shut down today.
It is a scream to pick Obama's lowest price in 5 years against the highest under Bush.
Since you wait 5 years to post Obama's price, why did you forget gas under $2 under Bush?
So gas wasn't $4 a gallon under Bush? No wonder you continue to be an ignorant leech of your parent's bank account.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20948 Oct 7, 2013
UVoted4BushTwice wrote:
<quoted text>
Yah but you would vote for Timothy McVeigh if he was still alive.
did you notice the 20% decline in the stock market this past couple weeks?

you still holding on?

only 4000 points to go, and it won't take long.

If the debt celling does not do it, the Fed will when they stop printing play money prolonging fantasy.
Fact

Carroll, OH

#20949 Oct 7, 2013
Gas in the summer of 2008 was 4.11 a gallon,who was in office?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#20950 Oct 7, 2013
UVoted4BushTwice wrote:
<quoted text>
So gas wasn't $4 a gallon under Bush? No wonder you continue to be an ignorant leech of your parent's bank account.
what a tool you are.

under Obama gas exceeded $6 a gallon in California. It has been $3.50 for years here. And as we devalue the dollar, expect it to do nothing but go up.

Obama said he was going to escalate all fuel costs as his green intuitive.

Put as much green in Obama's pockets, along with those that elected him as possible in 8 years.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#20951 Oct 7, 2013
UVoted4BushTwice wrote:
<quoted text>
So gas wasn't $4 a gallon under Bush? No wonder you continue to be an ignorant leech of your parent's bank account.
$4.00 per gallon was the highest price for gasoline we paid under two terms of Bush and the economy was doing very well. Gasoline prices are proportional with world economic conditions. Bush responded to those prices by opening up more government land for drilling and exploration. DumBama responded by closing down the Keystone pipe line.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#20952 Oct 7, 2013
UVoted4BushTwice wrote:
<quoted text>
Yah but you would vote for Timothy McVeigh if he was still alive.
And you would vote for another Communist if he were running.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#20953 Oct 7, 2013
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Sry, Not quite true. Briefly asked, why is there a Dept of Education in D.C. if they have nothing to do with local schools? I also can't see how reduced & free meals could not at least influence any school that recieves them.
That would seem a good reason for school vouchers...freedom away from the Feds!
There is a certain target the federal government has for federal aid be it school lunches or anything else. Once a school hits that target, the federal government gets to insert some of their curriculum.

In any case, I was talking about the federal government being involved with local religious issues from a Constitutional point of view.

If it were up to me, I would close down all bureaucracies including the department of education. We don't need half of these bureaucracies and they are a waste of our tax dollars. The only reason they are there is to make the federal government larger.

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