Pops

Newport, KY

#19337 Jul 12, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
For the wealthiest Americans, their effective tax rates are at historic lows:
"An "effective" tax rate is what a typical taxpayer actually pays after deductions, exemptions and the like. Itís always lower than the statutory tax rate, sometimes significantly lower."
"...A 2007 study by economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez calculated effective tax rates for various income groups.
For people whose income ranked between the top 1 percent and top 0.5 percent, the effective tax rate for individual, corporate, payroll and estate was 34.0 percent in 1960, 36.1 percent in 1970, 37.6 percent in 1980, 31.5 percent in 1990, 35.7 percent in 2000 and 31.3 percent in 2004.
For those earning between the top 0.1 percent and 0.5 percent of the income curve, the numbers were 41.4 percent in 1960, 44.6 percent in 1970, 43.0 percent in 1980, 33.0 percent in 1990, 38.4 percent in 2000 and 33.0 percent in 2004.
For those earning between 0.01 percent and 0.1 percent, the rates were 55.3 percent in 1960, 59.1 percent in 1970, 51.0 percent in 1980, 34.3 percent in 1990, 40.2 percent in 2000 and 34.1 percent in 2004.
Finally, for those in the top 0.01 percent of the income distribution, the effective tax rate was 71.4 percent in 1960, 74.6 percent in 1970, 59.3 percent in 1980, 35.4 percent in 1990, 40.8 percent in 2000 and 34.7 percent in 2004."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/state...
Understood & agreed to. That is why serious rewriting of tax laws is needed. The list of fair tax deductions would be very short. Such as Medical expenses, minimal business expenses such as would be related to start up or growth/expansion, education expenses, charitable/nonprofit donations & such things.
BUT, since in general,'our' representatives can be & have been bought, the chance of changes would be slim.
I once worked for a family owned HVAC company. The 'family' bought about 60 acres outside of town & built homes for many of them. Then deducted the heating & air cost of each of them under the pretext of company 'research' for the business that they are in. That could be true in some cases but in this case, the loose parameters of the law allowed them to save 10's & 10's of thousands of dollars EACH for their homes that they could afford.
IF someone has a boat or airplane that is used once or twice a year for true business but they seem to write the whole thing off....WRONG!
The examples go on & on.
There are countless like examples that if seriously addressed, would balance the tax load. I wish it was so. Good luck!
John Hancock

Circleville, OH

#19338 Jul 12, 2013
I vote for America

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19339 Jul 12, 2013
I vote for moving to Costa Rica.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19341 Jul 13, 2013
We need the fairtax system. And do completely away with witholding.
Pops

Newport, KY

#19342 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Our tax laws are three times thicker than the Holy Bible, and it gets thicker every year.

How much would the federal government save getting rid of the IRS and associated people? How much would Americans save on tax preparation? How much would businesses save on accounting and tax preparation? How about tax lawyers, judges, and workers associated with the tax court systems?
This reasonable suggestion would have to be phased in since the number of the newly unemployed that you mention would be north of six figures. It would be worth it tho.
MissionAccomplis hed

Canton, OH

#19343 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Our tax laws are three times thicker than the Holy Bible, and it gets thicker every year.
Do away with all federal taxes and just have a progressive consumption tax. That way the 47% of Americans who pay absolutely nothing in federal taxes will have their money in the pot too. When government needs more money, everybody's tax gets increased and we all pay. Then you will see how fast Democrats lose support for the wasteful social spending that goes on every single year.
How much would the federal government save getting rid of the IRS and associated people? How much would Americans save on tax preparation? How much would businesses save on accounting and tax preparation? How about tax lawyers, judges, and workers associated with the tax court systems?
Why not tax the churches? Go ahead and explain why churches shouldn't have to pay taxes. Then explain why huge corporations get away without paying a cent in taxes. Big boss man has trained you guys so well.
MissionAccomplis hed

Canton, OH

#19344 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
When you prove they are not, then criticize the source.
I'm so glad you brought that up. I encourage everyone to Google Heritage Foundation lies. You can sort through the over 3 million responses to that search and decide which lie told by the Heritage Foundation best suits your racist, corporate fetch boy views. The "you can't prove it" technique used by the GOP for decades has been shut down by the digital age of easily accessible information.
Halliburton4Prez

Canton, OH

#19349 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
For the same reason Democrats support unions, environmentalists and abortions: to buy votes and financial support.
Don't act like Republicans are the only people doing it.
What does Conservatism have to do with abortion...or gay marriage? Nothing. It is a purely rightwing Christian agenda. How long has that agenda had a monopoly on this free country? How many times does religious beliefs lead the charge when a Republican or Tea Bagger is running for office?

Reagan...Bush...GW...Perry...B achmann...Palin...Romney...

At least the Dems don't whore out Jesus to get votes and only an idiot would think Obama got elected because he gave out free phones. It's no wonder your camp is viewed as a bunch of inbred, out of touch, Bible thumping racists.

But that still doesn't answer my question...Why shouldn't churches have to pay taxes? Good luck.
Halliburton4Prez

Canton, OH

#19350 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
For the same reason Democrats support unions, environmentalists and abortions: to buy votes and financial support.
Don't act like Republicans are the only people doing it.
Wonder how much money the environmentalists collectively make in a year compared to how much Exxon makes in a day?

The only people who really care about abortion want to force a Christian America on all it's people. Nobody really cares or thinks about abortion except the all white, 1950's Mayberry for Jesus crew and voting Americans said to hell with that.
Halliburton4Prez

Canton, OH

#19351 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem as I see it is we allow people to vote the money out of other peoples pockets.
The federal government is going to give all Americans a new dishwasher, and it costs you nothing. Then where is the federal government going to get the money to buy those dishwashers? From people that are six figures and above.
It's like I said before, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. It goes on in federal, state and even city elections.
For instance, several years ago, the city put up a levy for a vote to build new schools. I don't have any kids in school, why would I vote for new schools? But the people who did have children in schools voted it in. Now it costs me an extra $400.00 a year to pay for those schools. People voted money out of my pocket that made their lot in life better at my expense. Mind you some of those people don't even pay property tax. They are on HUD and the federal government pays, so why not vote in new schools at my expense?
Now lets say that only the people who had children in school had to pay for those new buildings. Do you think it would have passed? Hell no, not if they have to pay for it. They may have to pay an extra $100.00 per year because of their small house and property, but why should I pay four times that amount every year and not get anything out of it?
Rob Peter to pay Paul? But Peter has all his money hidden in offshore accounts. See Peter, with all his greed, has been a bloated leech on the neck of society for decades and decades. Then Peter blames the poor and powerless for all the nation's woes. I blame the people who had their hands on the wheel when the truck hit a wall. Let's see. Who was it that was in office when America starting spiraling into a recession?
X Rex

Anaheim, CA

#19352 Jul 13, 2013
turn to pass....oh never mind! Those "Bible Thumpers" are the biggest pervets around!
Halliburton4Prez

Canton, OH

#19353 Jul 13, 2013
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#19354 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Do away with all federal taxes and just have a progressive consumption tax.
Of course, a consumption tax is regressive not progressive, and falls disproportionately on the poor and middle classes.
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
That way the 47% of Americans who pay absolutely nothing in federal taxes will have their money in the pot too.
You are wrong about that. The 47% number refers to income tax only. If you look at total tax burden, the lowest 20% pay 19% of their income in taxes. The top 1% pays 33% of their income in taxes.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2013/04/who_pays_ta...

The consumption tax may seem appealing because it is easy to understand, and no one likes preparing their income taxes. But, consider the effect on old folks like myself:

"...if you just say scrap the income tax and replace it with a sales tax or a value added tax, then it would be a huge tax increase on old people, old people who are paying tax on their income as they're earning it, thinking that when they got to retirement they could spend money and they'd be paying a dollar for everything they bought.

If you replace, Bill actually did some estimates that if you replaced all of our taxes with the sales tax, the sales tax rate would be something like 60 percent, so you could just imagine getting into retirement and finding out the price of all the goods you're buying is now 60 percent higher than it was the day before. That would be like a 60 percent tax on all of the money that you had saved up over the course of your life."

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interviews/...
Halliburton4Prez

Canton, OH

#19355 Jul 13, 2013
"20 percent of Republicans said they believed Obama is the Antichrist"

That's the kind of batshit crazy we need running our country...right?
Pops

Newport, KY

#19356 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem as I see it is we allow people to vote the money out of other peoples pockets.
The federal government is going to give all Americans a new dishwasher, and it costs you nothing. Then where is the federal government going to get the money to buy those dishwashers? From people that are six figures and above.
It's like I said before, if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. It goes on in federal, state and even city elections.
For instance, several years ago, the city put up a levy for a vote to build new schools. I don't have any kids in school, why would I vote for new schools? But the people who did have children in schools voted it in. Now it costs me an extra $400.00 a year to pay for those schools. People voted money out of my pocket that made their lot in life better at my expense. Mind you some of those people don't even pay property tax. They are on HUD and the federal government pays, so why not vote in new schools at my expense?
Now lets say that only the people who had children in school had to pay for those new buildings. Do you think it would have passed? Hell no, not if they have to pay for it. They may have to pay an extra $100.00 per year because of their small house and property, but why should I pay four times that amount every year and not get anything out of it?
I understand what you are saying about school taxes as I have no kids in school either BUT I would vote for school taxes IF I felt that the funds were properly applied. Why you may ask. Because it is to EVERYONE'S benefit to have & to provide an education. NO one loses. The uneducated/undereducated are certainly the majority of criminals, addicts, welfare recipients & all around cancers of society later in their lives, generation after generation after generation.
X Rex

Anaheim, CA

#19357 Jul 13, 2013
mit believed in spaciemen and the "golden salamander"!
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#19358 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
For instance, several years ago, the city put up a levy for a vote to build new schools. I don't have any kids in school, why would I vote for new schools?
Because better schools benefit everyone. We need to educate the next generation, so they are able to eventually find employment and pay taxes. Or you can look forward to more people on welfare or in prisons (and you won't like paying for that, either!)

If these arguments don't persuade you, consider that a main determinant of property values are the quality of the school systems in that area. Would you like to make sure that your home holds its value?
John Hancock

Grove City, OH

#19362 Jul 13, 2013
So, I believe the election of 2010 is over. Amirite
LorenEberly

Centerburg, OH

#19364 Jul 13, 2013
Every American Citizen Responsibility:

Itís every American Citizens responsibility to demand Supreme Court and/or Congress impeach President, and recall Vice President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.

That defies USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every farmer, Business Owner and their Stockholders, corporation, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.

This enables the elderly, and every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay for food and fiber. Fund USA with same percentage of income derived from wages, pension, investment and independent business profit; and pay for every product and service they use for life.

And holds Farmers, Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americaís grandchildrenís children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Markets paying Farmers $6.36 for a bushel of corn 2150.42 cubic inches,$15.67 for a bushel 2150.42 cubic inches, of beans,$6.28 for a bushel of wheat 2150.42 cubic inches,$16.50 for a bushel of oats 2150.42 cubic inches,$76.50 per cwt. For a 220-250 pound hog,$100 -$107 cwt. for a choice Holstein steer,$375 -$450 per ton 20 short cwt. 2000 pounds for alfalfa hay,$200-$210 per ton 20 short cwt. 2000 pounds for wheat straw.

Pay income tax, social security tax, and road tax Amish evade paying 10% of their income derived from wages, Ponzi credit certificates, and independent business profit to nonprofit, tax exempt, Amish Church.

Pay property tax on state appraised value of their American Dream to fund schools. Pay interest on lottery winners winnings Legislators invest in school bonds.

Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on food and fiber consumed in restaurants and the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. Vendors collect without compensation. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

And fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in tax abated enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid; Makes food and fiber UNAFFORDABLE.
Pops

Newport, KY

#19365 Jul 13, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Statistics also show that single-parent families have the most troubled offspring. Maybe we can get the federal government to pay parents to stay together.
That could possibly raise the murder rate! lol
I do have 3 grown sons & I was the legal custodian for better than 8 yrs. No thanks staying with someone that may have given me STD's,(luckily not)no matter what gov $$ I may have received to stay together.
In part, because of you school tax support & others, One son is a fine auto & truck mechanic, 1 has been in the navy 10 yrs this month with 4 yrs to go on this hitch & 1 is in his 4th yr of college.
I had paid school taxes for more than a decade B4 the 1st son was even born & will be paying likely for the rest of my life just like you & others. We should THANK each other for the resulting assets of education.

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