Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#27364 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what you want, a government that controls the private sector taking away competition and trusting them not to cheat the system for their own political advantage?
Competition controls prices, monopolies don't.
It's telling that you equate "raping the consumer" with competition.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#27365 Mar 30, 2014
takingthemiddle wrote:
Wish all the proponents of a one payer system would go to socialized countries to see "exactly" what it has done to the system. Why do you think many have come to the U.S. for operations? My best friend from Canada would have died had she waited for care there. You all need to get the real facts. These idiots who just took over your HC can't do anything efficiently. The tore down the house to fix the roof!
Every healthcare system has it's problems. There is no "perfect" system that I'm aware of.

Canada spends over one billion dollars every year to have their citizens treated in the US. Our northern hospitals are full of Canadian patients. I read an article a few years back where it said Canada was starting to open up private medical care facilities and even selling healthcare insurance just like we do.

If you talk to people from Canada (as I do) the younger and middle-aged citizens will swear by their healthcare system. Elderly Canadian citizens have told me "keep what you have in this country."

Socialized healthcare systems are great for back problems, sprained ankles, broken bones, eye and ear problems. But when it comes to the serious stuff, that's where they fail to meet expectations. Canada uses cancer treatments we quit using over 20 years ago because our medications are more advanced.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#27366 Mar 30, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet when you see 30,000 record high temperatures, you close your eyes. I bet when the scientists who accurately predicted the hottest decade in recorded history, you know. Back when you guys were saying climate change didn't exist at all, you went with what the Koch Brothers were telling you..
WE may have had 30,000 record HIGH temps 500 million years ago just as we must have had 30,000 LOW temps 10,000 years ago for the last Ice Age or there would NOT have been glaciers down to the Missouri & Ohio rivers while Humans & animal species could NOT have crossed the Bering Sea from 1 continent to another & was wiping out Mammoths.& others. Climate change has existed for BILLIONS of years.
The technology & humankind simply did NOT record it for that duration of time.
Don't get me wrong on my position of "climate change" as opposed to "climate warming" any more than "revenue enhancement" is to "tax increases",
MY position is that humankind does NOT need to accelerate or contribute to 'climate change'. Let 'nature' take it's course whatever course that may be.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27367 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>

So the reason our prescriptions cost what they do is because of the FDA, all the drugs not approved by the FDA, and the extensive testing and red tape that it takes to get a drug approved.
This is interesting because it is a testable idea. We can look at other countries that have equivalent agencies to the FDA, and see if their drug prices are also higher. If so, your idea might have merit.

In Canada, their version of the FDA is Health Canada. It has similar oversight of drugs. And yet, drugs are much cheaper there. Why do you think that is?

"The statistics reflect that prices of brand name drugs in the United States are significantly higher than in Canada, India, the UK and other countries, nearly all of which have price controls."

Why don't we have price controls, or even just allow Medicare to negotiate for the best prices?

"The pharmaceutical industry has thousands of lobbyists in Washington, D.C., that lobby Congress and protect their interests. The pharmaceutical industry spent $855 million, more than any other industry, on lobbying activities from 1998 to 2006, according to the non-partisan Center for Public Integrity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_dru...

Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27368 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
What really happened is that our country suffered a shortage of medical personnel. Our unions in this country made it unreasonable for anybody to go into the medical field unless it was a strong passion. So how do you attract people to this kind of work? You have to increase the wages for these professionals. Otherwise they will go to UPS, FedEx, Ford, the steel mills, or a number of other non-skilled employment.
This is such confused logic that I barely know where to start. Again, your premise is a testable one. You suggest that when unions are strong, salaries of those in medicine will have to rise to compete (and, when unions are weak, salaries of those in medicine will fall.) This is not what we've seen. When unions were at the peak of their strength in the 1950s, did doctors salaries rise dramatically? No. And now, when unions are in profound decline, are doctor's salaries falling? No.
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
You have to increase the wages for these professionals. Otherwise they will go to UPS, FedEx, Ford, the steel mills, or a number of other non-skilled employment.
You believe the only reason that anyone works is to make money? Really?

For those with a choice, there are many jobs that are interesting and challenging, and the pay is only one consideration out of many. Working in medicine is difficult, requires many years of training, but the non-financial rewards are great. You get to see the difference you make in people's lives every day.

Have you ever been in a steel mill? I have. The work is hot, the environment is nasty. Every day you work there takes a terrible toll on your body, and it ages you prematurely. Outside of the money, there's not much to recommend it.
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Otherwise they will go to UPS, FedEx, Ford, the steel mills, or a number of other non-skilled employment.
Why didn't you get one of those high paying, unskilled jobs?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#27369 Mar 31, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is interesting because it is a testable idea. We can look at other countries that have equivalent agencies to the FDA, and see if their drug prices are also higher. If so, your idea might have merit.
In Canada, their version of the FDA is Health Canada. It has similar oversight of drugs. And yet, drugs are much cheaper there. Why do you think that is?
"The statistics reflect that prices of brand name drugs in the United States are significantly higher than in Canada, India, the UK and other countries, nearly all of which have price controls."
Why don't we have price controls, or even just allow Medicare to negotiate for the best prices?
"The pharmaceutical industry has thousands of lobbyists in Washington, D.C., that lobby Congress and protect their interests. The pharmaceutical industry spent $855 million, more than any other industry, on lobbying activities from 1998 to 2006, according to the non-partisan Center for Public Integrity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_dru...
research is very expensive.

Patents protect integrity to reclaim expenditure of research. The USA pays 100% of the research cost, and subsidies the world with medicine.

Only USA customers pay back the companies that develop new medicine. All other countries medicine pricing does not include research cost.....we pay that.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27370 Mar 31, 2014
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
research is very expensive.
Patents protect integrity to reclaim expenditure of research. The USA pays 100% of the research cost, and subsidies the world with medicine.
Only USA customers pay back the companies that develop new medicine. All other countries medicine pricing does not include research cost.....we pay that.
We are not the only nation developing new drugs (though we do develop a disproportionate share): "Although the United States comprises only 5% of the world's population, it accounts for 36% of worldwide research and development of pharmaceutical drugs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_dru...

Why should we subsidize drugs for the rest of the world? Why shouldn't we use our buying power to negotiate for the best prices?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#27371 Mar 31, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not the only nation developing new drugs (though we do develop a disproportionate share): "Although the United States comprises only 5% of the world's population, it accounts for 36% of worldwide research and development of pharmaceutical drugs."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_dru...
Why should we subsidize drugs for the rest of the world? Why shouldn't we use our buying power to negotiate for the best prices?
The USA subsides the world with research and development.

Your number 36% is off by 60%.

Wikipedia is garbage in, garbage out.

you don't get it.....we are the money.....nobody else has any.

can I suggest you travel abroad.

I leave for Asia this Friday. Never been prior.
My passport has an addendum book because other is filled. I know differently.

PS: Next door neighbor is a Director at a drug manufacturer. Generic drugs don't pay for research. None.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27372 Mar 31, 2014
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
Your number 36% is off by 60%.
I cite my sources. Where does your number come from?
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
you don't get it.....we are the money.....nobody else has any.
Is this a joke?
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
can I suggest you travel abroad.
I have traveled extensively outside of the USA.
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
Next door neighbor is a Director at a drug manufacturer. Generic drugs don't pay for research. None.


So?
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
I leave for Asia this Friday. Never been prior.
Hope you have a good time.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27373 Mar 31, 2014
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
you don't get it.....we are the money.....nobody else has any.
Our GDP is 16,244,600 million dollars.
The GDP of the European Union is 16,721,383 million dollars.
The GDP of China is 8,358,363 million dollars.
The GDP of Japan is 5,959,718 million dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#27374 Mar 31, 2014
Reality Speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
The USA subsides the world with research and development.
Your number 36% is off by 60%.
Wikipedia is garbage in, garbage out.
you don't get it.....we are the money.....nobody else has any.
can I suggest you travel abroad.
I leave for Asia this Friday. Never been prior.
My passport has an addendum book because other is filled. I know differently.
PS: Next door neighbor is a Director at a drug manufacturer. Generic drugs don't pay for research. None.
Walter, going to Dragon Buffet for dinner is not going to Asia.
mutt

Van Wert, OH

#27375 Mar 31, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
Walter, going to Dragon Buffet for dinner is not going to Asia.
And banging your mom during home-school doesn't count as "scoring with the teacher". But hey, we're talking to a guy who also drives invisible race cars to go Marlin fishing in a parking lot...
Canton

Canton, OH

#27376 Mar 31, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> WE may have had 30,000 record HIGH temps 500 million years ago just as we must have had 30,000 LOW temps 10,000 years ago for the last Ice Age or there would NOT have been glaciers down to the Missouri & Ohio rivers while Humans & animal species could NOT have crossed the Bering Sea from 1 continent to another & was wiping out Mammoths.& others. Climate change has existed for BILLIONS of years.
The technology & humankind simply did NOT record it for that duration of time.
Don't get me wrong on my position of "climate change" as opposed to "climate warming" any more than "revenue enhancement" is to "tax increases",
MY position is that humankind does NOT need to accelerate or contribute to 'climate change'. Let 'nature' take it's course whatever course that may be.
You a climate scientist? Let's hear what the experts have to say on the matter...Go ahead and pick your own kookie denial claim. I think they address each one of them, as oddly enough, I have heard most of them on here. It's almost as if you are all getting your energy lobby propaganda from the same source .

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sev...
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#27377 Mar 31, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is such confused logic that I barely know where to start. Again, your premise is a testable one. You suggest that when unions are strong, salaries of those in medicine will have to rise to compete (and, when unions are weak, salaries of those in medicine will fall.) This is not what we've seen. When unions were at the peak of their strength in the 1950s, did doctors salaries rise dramatically? No. And now, when unions are in profound decline, are doctor's salaries falling? No.
<quoted text>
You believe the only reason that anyone works is to make money? Really?
For those with a choice, there are many jobs that are interesting and challenging, and the pay is only one consideration out of many. Working in medicine is difficult, requires many years of training, but the non-financial rewards are great. You get to see the difference you make in people's lives every day.
Have you ever been in a steel mill? I have. The work is hot, the environment is nasty. Every day you work there takes a terrible toll on your body, and it ages you prematurely. Outside of the money, there's not much to recommend it.
<quoted text>
Why didn't you get one of those high paying, unskilled jobs?
I was never much of a lover for big companies. I believe small business is more American and personal when it comes to working. Back in the days when I was working in medical, we were a branch of a large company. You are just a number and nobody really appreciates good work.

However money is the main motivator for most workers. And as I stated, unless you have a passion about that particular kind of work, you will opt to work in another field of work for the same or even more money.

Unions were the driver of non-skilled labor that created a domino effect across the country. That's why most of our goods are made in China today. But it's not just unions that were responsible for our medical personnel shortage, it was other fields of work that required an advanced education. You would be better off being educated as an engineer, an architect, an IT person or other related technology field than medical. Granted, nobody would get training for a job they hate because it paid more money, but they will get training for a job that's acceptable to them.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#27378 Mar 31, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is interesting because it is a testable idea. We can look at other countries that have equivalent agencies to the FDA, and see if their drug prices are also higher. If so, your idea might have merit.
In Canada, their version of the FDA is Health Canada. It has similar oversight of drugs. And yet, drugs are much cheaper there. Why do you think that is?
"The statistics reflect that prices of brand name drugs in the United States are significantly higher than in Canada, India, the UK and other countries, nearly all of which have price controls."
Why don't we have price controls, or even just allow Medicare to negotiate for the best prices?
"The pharmaceutical industry has thousands of lobbyists in Washington, D.C., that lobby Congress and protect their interests. The pharmaceutical industry spent $855 million, more than any other industry, on lobbying activities from 1998 to 2006, according to the non-partisan Center for Public Integrity."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_dru...
Actually, Hillary Clinton managed to get price controls on our flu vaccine in this country. This was the results:

"In 1993 Hillary Clinton championed the Vaccines for Children program, under which the government uses its purchasing power to negotiate discounts for vaccines and distributes them to physicians and various health agencies for free or at a reduced price, essentially creating a children's vaccine entitlement. As a result, more than half the supply of childhood vaccines is purchased by government at deep discounts. Many firms have simply chosen to leave the market, given the low profit margins. Less than two percent of drug company revenue is derived from vaccines."

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba493

The bottom line is that it created a shortage of vaccines in this country. It doesn't work.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#27379 Mar 31, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
You a climate scientist? Let's hear what the experts have to say on the matter...Go ahead and pick your own kookie denial claim. I think they address each one of them, as oddly enough, I have heard most of them on here. It's almost as if you are all getting your energy lobby propaganda from the same source .
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sev...
Come on Canton. Where in my post did I deny climate change? It does not serve to make incorrect claims.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#27380 Mar 31, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
You a climate scientist? Let's hear what the experts have to say on the matter...Go ahead and pick your own kookie denial claim. I think they address each one of them, as oddly enough, I have heard most of them on here. It's almost as if you are all getting your energy lobby propaganda from the same source .
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sev...
And nobody hates propaganda more than Canton:

National Science Foundation funded climate change musical to tune of $700,000
By Perry ChiaramontePublished March 31, 2014FoxNews.com

Call it Climate Change: The Musical!

The National Science Foundation has spent nearly $700,000 on a climate change-themed theatrical production, leaving some in Congress questioning if the organization's grant funds could be put to better use.

Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, questioned White House science czar John Holdren in a hearing last Thursday about the way the NSF is using taxpayer money -- including on the grants for the play, a New York production called "The Great Immensity."

“I support basic research, which can lead to discoveries that change our world, expand our horizons and save lives,” Smith, chairman of the House Science Committee, told FoxNews.com .“But NSF has funded too many questionable research grants. Spending taxpayer dollars to fund a climate change musical called ‘The Great Immensity’ sounds more like a waste of taxpayer dollars -- money that could have funded higher priority research.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/31/cl...

We report----you decide.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#27381 Mar 31, 2014
Canton just don't get no R S P E C T.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#27382 Mar 31, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why didn't you get one of those high paying, unskilled jobs?
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I was never much of a lover for big companies. I believe small business is more American and personal when it comes to working. Back in the days when I was working in medical, we were a branch of a large company. You are just a number and nobody really appreciates good work.
So, after making the argument that the people are primarily driven by money in their job search, and maintaining that they would rather work in a steel mill rather than be a pharmacist because the money is better...now you are telling me that YOU were willing to work for less money because you prefer the working environment of a smaller company?
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#27383 Apr 1, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Our GDP is 16,244,600 million dollars.
The GDP of the European Union is 16,721,383 million dollars.
The GDP of China is 8,358,363 million dollars.
The GDP of Japan is 5,959,718 million dollars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...
Pfizer by themselves spent more than 16 million on research in 2013.

you are full of yourself, and full of crap too.

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