No C and C 4 me

Piqua, OH

#22 Jan 2, 2013
Student 4 Concealed Carry wrote:
<quoted text>
http://concealedcampus.org/
COMMON ARGUMENT: Police officers typically spend four to five months in training; whereas, concealed handgun license holders usually spend one day or less.
__________
Police officers do not spend four to five months learning to carry concealed handguns for self-defense; they spend four to five months learning to be police officers. Concealed handgun license holders are not police officers; therefore, they have no need of most of the training received by police officers. Concealed handgun license holders don’t need to know how to drive police cars at high speeds or how to kick down doors or how to conduct traffic stops or how to make arrests or how to use handcuffs. And concealed handgun license holders definitely don’t need to spend weeks memorizing radio codes and traffic laws.
“Contrary to what some opponents of concealed carry might claim, concealed handgun license holders don’t need extensive tactical training because they are not charged with protecting the public—It’s not their job to act like amateur, one-man SWAT teams. All a concealed handgun license holder needs to know is how to use his or her concealed handgun to stop an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm, and that type of training CAN be accomplished in a few hours.”
NOTE: In some states, such as Texas, the shooting test for a concealed handgun license differs very little from the annual re-qualification test for police officers.
http://concealedcampus.org/
A question to Student 4 conceal and carry....
In the event that your teacher did have the few hours training required; and in the event that your teacher did have to protect students by using the firearm, what possibility is there of victims of "friendly fire?" Could that happen here?
And how many hours of training does a teacher have in learning how to deal with the fallout of such horrible possibilities?
big concern

Dayton, OH

#23 Jan 2, 2013
No C and C 4 me wrote:
<quoted text>
A question to Student 4 conceal and carry....
In the event that your teacher did have the few hours training required; and in the event that your teacher did have to protect students by using the firearm, what possibility is there of victims of "friendly fire?" Could that happen here?
And how many hours of training does a teacher have in learning how to deal with the fallout of such horrible possibilities?
and what about a pissed off teacher who didn't get their demands met with the school board? You going to trust a teacher with a gun...hmm..
Not A Chance

Piqua, OH

#24 Jan 2, 2013
BobbyLew wrote:
School board member Petroni has finally revealed what he does for a living, and you'll never believe it: Charter Schools!!! You know, those unregulated messes that pay pennies for teachers, following their own brand of renegade educational ideas. Back in the day, School Board members were voted in for the sacred charge of overseeing strong schools and supporting staff in their intellectual endeavors. Petroni's mission is obviously to make a buck by undermining the excellent rating of Springboro Schools, so that he can found some new fantastically visionary state-supported charter schools. Is this why he and his Tea Party School Board cohorts are contemplating cutting the school day and eliminating "non-essential" courses from the curriculum? Surely this obvious conflict of interest, which involves trading politics for financial gain, should serve as cause for impeachment.
Not a Chance in the Springboro School District of allowing our SEA members and school administrators to conceal and carry firearms into our classrooms and hallways. This Bobby Lew hostility is just one more example of the long standing projected hostility of our SEA and school administrators against school district citizens who do not bow in worship before the teachers union education gods.
The priority of our school superintendent should be to work with his District Parent Council members, his staff, and the SEA officials to change the "vote for revenge tone and tenor," and stop the promotion of "politics of resentment and grievance" holding our children's future hostage that the liberal union masters have launched against Springboro citizens who vote conservative values.
Student 4 Concealed Carry

Germantown, OH

#25 Jan 2, 2013
No C and C 4 me wrote:
<quoted text>
A question to Student 4 conceal and carry....
In the event that your teacher did have the few hours training required; and in the event that your teacher did have to protect students by using the firearm, what possibility is there of victims of "friendly fire?" Could that happen here?
And how many hours of training does a teacher have in learning how to deal with the fallout of such horrible possibilities?
Since Columbine almost every tragedy has been unique in some way or another. Yes, certain scenarios pose a heightened risk of injury or death due to defensive "friendly gunfire". Yes, that risk is often present. But that risk is there regardless of the title of the persons who respond.
The common denominator in every school shooting including Columbine has been a lack of defensive strategy. A concealed carry's focus is self-defense as well as the defense of others.

Regarding your second question, in severe crisis situations teachers already find themselves being thrown into situations where they must transform themselves into impromptu counselors. Police officers do the same thing every hour of every day. So do parents, ministers, priests, rabbis, and good people from virtually every walk of life.

http://concealedcampus.org/
go fish

Germantown, OH

#26 Jan 2, 2013
Not A Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Chance in the Springboro School District of allowing our SEA members and school administrators to conceal and carry firearms into our classrooms and hallways. This Bobby Lew hostility is just one more example of the long standing projected hostility of our SEA and school administrators against school district citizens who do not bow in worship before the teachers union education gods.
The priority of our school superintendent should be to work with his District Parent Council members, his staff, and the SEA officials to change the "vote for revenge tone and tenor," and stop the promotion of "politics of resentment and grievance" holding our children's future hostage that the liberal union masters have launched against Springboro citizens who vote conservative values.
Not a Chance - the jury hereby finds you GUILTY of convoluting an argument with a Red Herring! Obviously you weren't interested in... or failed to make your high school's debate team. No doubt you slept through that LOG101 class in college! Oh well! But you know what they say! It's never too late to begin learning! For your convenience, I've posted a little bit of "Logic for Dummies"!

__________

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1) Topic A is under discussion.
2) Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
3) Topic A is abandoned.
Down Home in Boro

Piqua, OH

#27 Jan 2, 2013
go fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Chance - the jury hereby finds you GUILTY of convoluting an argument with a Red Herring! Obviously you weren't interested in... or failed to make your high school's debate team. No doubt you slept through that LOG101 class in college! Oh well! But you know what they say! It's never too late to begin learning! For your convenience, I've posted a little bit of "Logic for Dummies"!
__________
A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
1) Topic A is under discussion.
2) Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
3) Topic A is abandoned.
Something stinks here.. could it be that concealed "stinc" in your no excellent babble of your "superior" distinction?
Or is it that old red herring of Columbine which is an irrelevant argument for concealed firearms in today's Springboro schools.
Uno Vote

Piqua, OH

#28 Jan 3, 2013
go fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a Chance - the jury hereby finds you GUILTY of convoluting an argument with a Red Herring! Obviously you weren't interested in... or failed to make your high school's debate team. No doubt you slept through that LOG101 class in college! Oh well! But you know what they say! It's never too late to begin learning! For your convenience, I've posted a little bit of "Logic for Dummies"!
__________
A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
1) Topic A is under discussion.
2) Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
3) Topic A is abandoned.
Go fish has just proven the point made by blogger "No C and C 4 Me" that the "school community" priority should be working together on gaining the trust of the "community as a whole."
During the past year, we have seen demonstrations of our "school community of about 200 voters" protesting against the "will of the people" as reflected in the November 2011 election of new school board members.
Here's one vote against the "school community" having dangerous firearms in our classrooms. The "eliteness" projected by go fish judges the value of average citizens opinions to be less than the "educated ones."
No citizen is required to be "educated" excellently with distinction award in order to be of equal value and to exercise our God-given "gifts" working to further our basic value systems while giving due respect to all.
Go fish projects disrespect to the opinion of "average citizen"
No C and C 4 Me, by playing the "education card."
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#29 Jan 3, 2013
No C and C 4 me wrote:
Springborians need to slow down on the whipped-up frenzy of exploiting the horrible tragedy in Newtown, describing all kinds of horrors in fear that it could happen here. Of course anything can happen here,(or anywhere in our society of personal freedoms that we embrace as routine living and working in America) but we do have to apply common sense in considering probabilities of these horrors happening, in addition to possibilities. Instead of instilling a mindset of fear that it could happen here, we do need to focus on the facts that Springboro schools have good security measures in place; we do know that our school superintendent and board members have publicly, in recent meetings, mentioned school employees being licensed to carry firearms. This comforts us in knowing that our leadership is aware of all things that could happen; and that the safety of our school employees and students and community members going in and out of the schools is of highest priority.
It is a concern that these efforts of our school district have failed to create a sense of safety for our students in our hallways and classrooms; and now we are hearing on this blog from fearful students wanting their teachers to carry and conceal firearms. Next, are we going to hear that our school bus drivers be armed? What about our janitors and food service workers? What about the safety of school volunteers and community workers such as delivery truck drivers bringing goods into the school? Should these persons be licensed to carry and conceal firearms to protect themselves from possible attacks in the event that a crazed gunman is on the loose inside the school building? Hopefully, community and school district discussion on the C&C issues will include possibilities of focusing on keeping crazed attackers OUTSIDE our school grounds.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
A fact largely unknown to the majority of Boroians is that there already are a few Springboro faculty who are licensed conceal / carry. So is at least one of our board members. I’ll be willing to bet that since Sandy Hook, at least a few more Springboro teachers have made plans to get a CC license, or are at least seriously thinking about it.

Ohio state law forbids anyone from carrying a weapon onto school grounds unless that person has been granted specific permission from that district’s board of education. We all know that currently, our board has not voted to grant such permission. Because of this, the very small percentage of Springboro faculty currently with concealed carry permits has legally absolutely zero accessability to a defensive weapon while on school grounds. Although this faculty is fully trained and prepared in the event of an attack, they are completely helpless to defend their own lives, not to mention lives of fellow faculty and of course our children. Does this make sense? Of course it doesn’t. Our board is dominated by clear-thinking common sense thinkers. I’m confident that after doing needed research, they’ll vote to allow specific persons the privilege of conceal / carry.

We are here to discuss and debate options concerning how to improve security in Springboro schools.
If what you’re looking for is “comfort”, I suggest that you get a massage.

Ask parents of deceased students of Littleton Colorado. Ask parents of Virginia Tech victims. Ask parents of deceased students at Newtown. I frickin’ guarantee you that if these parents could somehow turn back time they would have gladly sacrificed a lot of “comfort” in order to take necessary pro-active defensive steps so that possibly someone or some persons could have been THERE inside their schools, inside their campus, to help defend the lives of their children!!
OK why so many Q marks

Germantown, OH

#30 Jan 4, 2013
Uno Vote wrote:
<quoted text>
Go fish has just proven the point made by blogger "No C and C 4 Me" that the "school community" priority should be working together on gaining the trust of the "community as a whole."
During the past year, we have seen demonstrations of our "school community of about 200 voters" protesting against the "will of the people" as reflected in the November 2011 election of new school board members.
Here's one vote against the "school community" having dangerous firearms in our classrooms. The "eliteness" projected by go fish judges the value of average citizens opinions to be less than the "educated ones."
No citizen is required to be "educated" excellently with distinction award in order to be of equal value and to exercise our God-given "gifts" working to further our basic value systems while giving due respect to all.
Go fish projects disrespect to the opinion of "average citizen"
No C and C 4 Me, by playing the "education card."
I disagree completely.
Not a Chance purposefully blended two very unrelated arguments together in an obvious attempt to achieve a desired outcome.
go fish called him out by using a common rule of parliamentary debate.
There is nothing elitist about anyone who is capable of seeking out bias or logical flaws in an argument.
Not a Chance

Piqua, OH

#31 Jan 4, 2013
OK why so many Q marks wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree completely.
Not a Chance purposefully blended two very unrelated arguments together in an obvious attempt to achieve a desired outcome.
go fish called him out by using a common rule of parliamentary debate.
There is nothing elitist about anyone who is capable of seeking out bias or logical flaws in an argument.
Not a chance that any "outcome" of the board's decision for our school district will achieve what everyone wants done. No one is perfect - no not one - but each one has opportunity to simply agree or disagree without being judged by go fish as "uneducated in the common rule of parliamentary debate."
This blog is an opinion page.
Excuse Me

Piqua, OH

#32 Jan 4, 2013
I would love it wrote:
I would love a Charter School in Springboro. The past state had great charter schools. In fact it took a lottery type event to get in.
Have you seen the big scary email sent out to community members by Lisa Babb, drumming up support for another big protest on January 10 against our BOE majority's vote to pursue the study of charter schools?
Seems to Lisa Babb (and board member Don Miller) that using school resources putting our students best interest FIRST will "weaken the Springboro Community Assistance program."
Greater Achievements

Piqua, OH

#33 Jan 5, 2013
Now is the time for all common sense conservatives to come to the aid of our conservative values; and step up in support of investing our school tax dollars to greater achievements in our children's future education.

On January 10 at public school board meeting, Don Miller, Lisa Babb, Tina Schrof, David Bowman (among others) are all set to start 2013 with the same status quo agenda of "politics of undermining" and protesting against our "students best interest FIRST" leadership agenda of our BOE majority.

You will remember that throughout 2012 our school district residents were bombarded with one "Save Our SEA" rally after another... through our hallways and classrooms, into our homes, churches and city parks .... came the cry of protest against using our school tax dollars to budget for our childrens classroom needs FIRST,(instead of putting the "Save Our SEA" financial greedy self-interest of increased salaries and benefits for the teachers union FIRST in our school budget).

You will remember the rallying opposition to our school board's Budget and Finance Committee reviewing our students "pay to play" fees and getting it right, which resulted in a significant savings to parents; and you will remember that Booster Board officer Tiffany Carlisle was among those who publicly critized the school board members who voted to reduce the fees for parents.
You will remember another Booster parent who objected to our sports coaches being held accountable to existing school board by-laws and policies by stating in public meeting that he had no problem with transparency but believed that the individual coaches should spend our kids money the way coaches see fit.

Now we have a group of protesters rallying against investing a few thousand dollars in our children's future that would bring returns of Greater Achievements in educating our students in the 21st century. Since our school district can well afford this greater achievement in our children's future education, WHY are parents like David Bowman, Lisa Babb, and Springboro teacher Tina Schrof actively undermining the school boards efforts toward greater achievements in education for our students?

It does appear, based on what is read in the news and emails that are being sent to community members by Lisa Babb and Tina Schrof,
that supporters of "Save Our SEA" are spreading lies and instilling fear in parents that this investment of conversion schools for greater achievements in our children's future will
take MONEY away from the Springboro Education Association members and for that reason our school district leadership should stick to status quo, resting on our laurels that we ARE a school district who HAS BEEN excellent with distinction...

Now it appears on January 10 that our "Save Our SEA" protesters against Greater Achievements for our children's future will be "making the case" to the public once more to "rest on our laurels" with the same old tired status quo mantra of those fearful union-minded ones: "Why trouble ourselves with great challenges; our teachers are the greatest, they can do all things to meet all unmet needs of each unique and creative child in the classroom; why not just huddle together and have a nice day while our students graduate excellently with distinction .... and head off to remedial classes on the college campus of their choice?"

And the common sense answer?
Now is the time to over-rule this fear of the SEA that union masters are going to miss out on a dollar IF our school tax dollars are invested in the best interest of our children's best opportunity for greater "individual" achievement.
You betcha

Girard, OH

#34 Jan 5, 2013
Here is what is going to happen. They are going to get this charter school built. They will resign and take positions at this school making upwards of $ 100,000. You can rufute this all you want, but it is to the school boards personal advantage to do this. The people of Springboro MUST band together to stop this waste of taxpayer money. Please read about charter schools and how they are run. This is NOT for our kids, this is to line the pockets of the 3 current board members pushing this!! Let us NOT be morons!!
Wishful Thinking

Piqua, OH

#35 Jan 5, 2013
You betcha wrote:
Here is what is going to happen. They are going to get this charter school built. They will resign and take positions at this school making upwards of $ 100,000. You can rufute this all you want, but it is to the school boards personal advantage to do this. The people of Springboro MUST band together to stop this waste of taxpayer money. Please read about charter schools and how they are run. This is NOT for our kids, this is to line the pockets of the 3 current board members pushing this!! Let us NOT be morons!!
Oops! you betcha, it's too late for your hope NOT to be a MORON!
Your silly opinion is proof that you are!

Here's really what's happening! Our Badd for Boro Babble Bullies will continue huffing and puffing hostile opposition to doing what's right for our school children and community, until they blow their own union house down.
No C and C 4 me

Piqua, OH

#36 Jan 8, 2013
Student 4 Concealed Carry wrote:
<quoted text>
Since Columbine almost every tragedy has been unique in some way or another. Yes, certain scenarios pose a heightened risk of injury or death due to defensive "friendly gunfire". Yes, that risk is often present. But that risk is there regardless of the title of the persons who respond.
The common denominator in every school shooting including Columbine has been a lack of defensive strategy. A concealed carry's focus is self-defense as well as the defense of others.
Regarding your second question, in severe crisis situations teachers already find themselves being thrown into situations where they must transform themselves into impromptu counselors. Police officers do the same thing every hour of every day. So do parents, ministers, priests, rabbis, and good people from virtually every walk of life.
http://concealedcampus.org/
......The common denominator in every school shooting including Columbine has been a lack of defensive strategy.....

more questions for Student 4 Concealed Carry:

Is it true that there was no "defense" strategy" at Columbine that prevented these students from entering their school with these weapons of "mass destruction?"

Does Springboro Schools have any kind of outside the building "defense strategy" to prevent students from entering their school building with dangerous firearms?
Student 4 Concealed Carry

Germantown, OH

#37 Jan 8, 2013
No C and C 4 me wrote:
<quoted text>
......The common denominator in every school shooting including Columbine has been a lack of defensive strategy.....
more questions for Student 4 Concealed Carry:
Is it true that there was no "defense" strategy" at Columbine that prevented these students from entering their school with these weapons of "mass destruction?"
Does Springboro Schools have any kind of outside the building "defense strategy" to prevent students from entering their school building with dangerous firearms?
Leading up to the attack on April 20 1999, Columbine's defense strategy consisted of one permanently assigned police officer accompanied by a rotation of unarmed (useless) security guards.
When the shooting began both of these men were eating lunch while monitoring an outside student smoking area.

Springboro schools front desk employees operate with a system of audio and visual ID verification. Once a person is identified, the door is opened electronically. Once school begins, this system relies almost exclusively on "familiarity" of desk employees with everyday faces, as well as screening unfamiliar visitors.

Your second question is fundimentally flawed. Of course a shooter could potentially be a person of any age, not necessarily a student.

The Newtown shooter was a 20 year old adult. Before he attacked, he didn't bother to introduce himself thru Sandy Hook's relatively new audio/video screening system. No! Instead, he unceremoniously blasted through the door and window glass, and walked through it into the school. Now put yourself into this situation. You are a teacher in a classroom and you suddenly hear very sharp and quick series of ... "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop"... coming your general direction from the front of the school. Your instinct of course is to do whatever is humanly possible to protect yourself and your students. Some of your students have called 911. Even closer now, yet another series of ..."pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop"... Each and every second feels like an absolute eternity as you and your students wait huddled in the far corner of the classroom, praying for first responders to arrive, before..........
__________

You know as well as I how this scenario would have most likely played out a lot differently, had you as well as another teacher, a counselor, or a principal had training and had immediate access to a defensive weapon.
ur ina pinch

Germantown, OH

#38 Jan 8, 2013
You betcha wrote:
Here is what is going to happen. They are going to get this charter school built. They will resign and take positions at this school making upwards of $ 100,000. You can rufute this all you want, but it is to the school boards personal advantage to do this. The people of Springboro MUST band together to stop this waste of taxpayer money. Please read about charter schools and how they are run. This is NOT for our kids, this is to line the pockets of the 3 current board members pushing this!! Let us NOT be morons!!
Expand your insufficient point. Tell us about poorly run charter schools. Tell us about successful charter schools. In either instance please provide evidence to back your statements.
Do Your Homework

Piqua, OH

#39 Jan 9, 2013
Student 4 Concealed Carry wrote:
<quoted text>
Leading up to the attack on April 20 1999, Columbine's defense strategy consisted of one permanently assigned police officer accompanied by a rotation of unarmed (useless) security guards.
When the shooting began both of these men were eating lunch while monitoring an outside student smoking area.
Springboro schools front desk employees operate with a system of audio and visual ID verification. Once a person is identified, the door is opened electronically. Once school begins, this system relies almost exclusively on "familiarity" of desk employees with everyday faces, as well as screening unfamiliar visitors.
Your second question is fundimentally flawed. Of course a shooter could potentially be a person of any age, not necessarily a student.
The Newtown shooter was a 20 year old adult. Before he attacked, he didn't bother to introduce himself thru Sandy Hook's relatively new audio/video screening system. No! Instead, he unceremoniously blasted through the door and window glass, and walked through it into the school. Now put yourself into this situation. You are a teacher in a classroom and you suddenly hear very sharp and quick series of ... "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop"... coming your general direction from the front of the school. Your instinct of course is to do whatever is humanly possible to protect yourself and your students. Some of your students have called 911. Even closer now, yet another series of ..."pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop"... Each and every second feels like an absolute eternity as you and your students wait huddled in the far corner of the classroom, praying for first responders to arrive, before..........
__________
You know as well as I how this scenario would have most likely played out a lot differently, had you as well as another teacher, a counselor, or a principal had training and had immediate access to a defensive weapon.
Hey student for concealed and carry, shouldn't you be doing something more productive... perhaps doing your homework or studying for exams?
Facing Problems

Piqua, OH

#40 Jan 23, 2013
tiny tim wrote:
<quoted text>
You couldn't be more wrong. I highly recommend that you watch the tape of the last 2012 board meeting. Charter schools were outlined in very good detail by a guest from NE Ohio. A conversion charter school can provide educational opportunities beyond what Springboro schools current cirriculum can provide. All over the country, charter schools have shown to benefit students of all age groups. Currently Springboro has an abundance of gifted students in almost every grade level. If Springboro were to open a charter school, many current as well as future gifted students are likely not to be so restricted in their overall development due to lack of specialized gifted teaching materials. That's only the beginning. Charter schools can work in much the same way for students that are learning disabled.
The more that taxpayers see of the no-class opposition at public board meetings attacking the character of board members (who are also parents); instead of addressing the issue of meeting each one of our student's academic needs; the more convinced we become that our school district does not need new money; but our school district self-serving proud ones need a new attitude.

The biggest problem facing school superintendent, Mr. Petrey, right now is educating his newly formed District Parent Council that the mission of Springboro schools is to produce good citizens; not to produce Proud Parents of Boro Grads.

Building A Passion for Lifelong Learning
The Mission Of The Springboro Community City Schools,
A Pioneer In World Class Education With Small Town Pride,
Is To Motivate And Empower All Students To Become
Life Long Learners, Productive Citizens And Future Leaders.
Badd Babb Bitter Half

Piqua, OH

#41 Jan 23, 2013
BobbyLew wrote:
School board member Petroni has finally revealed what he does for a living, and you'll never believe it: Charter Schools!!! You know, those unregulated messes that pay pennies for teachers, following their own brand of renegade educational ideas. Back in the day, School Board members were voted in for the sacred charge of overseeing strong schools and supporting staff in their intellectual endeavors. Petroni's mission is obviously to make a buck by undermining the excellent rating of Springboro Schools, so that he can found some new fantastically visionary state-supported charter schools. Is this why he and his Tea Party School Board cohorts are contemplating cutting the school day and eliminating "non-essential" courses from the curriculum? Surely this obvious conflict of interest, which involves trading politics for financial gain, should serve as cause for impeachment.
David Bowman expounded more of his badd babb for boro politics of personal destruction aimed at targeted board members (with whom his Badd Babb for Boro politics disagree) at last night's Springboro Board of Education meeting.
Mr. Bowman brought nothing new to the board "table"... just more of his opinions denying facts...just a re-run of his website opinions of ignorance ...
Subject: Playing Dominos with Springboro Schools – OPINION | Dayton Most Metro
http://mostmetro.com/life/schoolseducation/sp...

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