Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 20 comments on the Feb 5, 2008, Dayton Daily News story titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Great Idea

United States

#28776 Nov 5, 2013
I've got it! Here's an idea everyone could get behind: remember the controversial push for a new charter school here in town not long ago? I'm second guessing myself now - I say let's do it -

- Petroni and Rigano can go over there to head up the Board! They can be Co-Presidents if they wish!
- Kohls can come back as Superintendent or Grand-Poobah or whatever she wants to rename the role!
- Wiedemann, since he obviously knows exactly how to do it, can serve in the combined role of Principal-Vice Principal-Counselor-Teacher-Se cretary-etc.!
- Bitner could obviously be comfortable as Head of Security!
- Vaughn, I don't know, he could handle PTO President?

Wiedeman probably has an airplane hanger where classes could meet, everyone would be assigned a gun upon entrance, and they could teach all the radical and fanatical topics that they want (creationism, elitism, right-wing nutjobbedness, how to host a tea party, etc.)! They could spend absolutely ZERO dollars on anything (that'd make them happy), and they could finally do away with sports or any other extracurricular activities that further teach real life-lessons! Anyone in town who wants their children to attend would be encouraged to go: the numbers must be upwards of a few dozen!

Yep, I'm convinced, a separate charter school here in town like the one I explained above would be a great idea!

However, FOR THE REST OF US IN SPRINGBORO, we'll take people from a more 'normal' conservative point of view to manage our already distinctly above-average children's education. An education in any school is what you put into it as a student - if we just don't have some of these drastically 'out-there' thinkers making our school nationally 'weird', our kids will be just fine, and able to become as successful as they decide to be!

I just voted MSA for Springboro School Board: those who value and understand 'normal' life should do the same!
The Next Day

Springboro, OH

#28777 Nov 5, 2013
My Experience wrote:
Mr. Wiedeman is right, under Malone and the Baker administration, PSEO classes where not encouraged, but rather discouraged. I know this for a fact because I tried to get information and enroll my children in the program when they were in high school and actually started the process while they were in junior high, but only got unreturned phone calls and emails, and unanswered questions in person. My children were considered "gifted" by the district, though I consider them "ignored" by Malone and the Baker administration. For those who may not be aware, PSEO stands for Postsecondary Education Option and allows students to take college classes while still in high school for both college and high school credit. It is a fantastic program for students who are ready for the challenge. But another bonus is that students do not have to pay for the classes or books so it not only gives them a jumpstart on college credits, but also saves them and their parents money. However, in Springboro this was not an encouraged option. I wondered why and finally had a very honest teacher tell me off the record that it was because some of the state per pupil money followed the student to the college and Springboro wanted to keep the money in the district. That is why they raved about AP classes instead, but in reality, it was because AP classes keep the high school teachers employed. But anyone who knows anything about AP classes knows that the amount of credit if any that a college awards a student for a years worth of AP work is based on a test that is taken at the end of the year and colleges vary on how much credit they will award. So again, we see that Malone was more concerned with the teachers well being and not the children. Seems like a very pro-union idea to me. I could go on, but in the end, I got my children PSEO by transferring to a school that encouraged college courses and my children completed two full years of college while still in high school making them graduate from college in half the time and saving lots of our money, money they were able to use for grad school.
So you could say I'm getting even by NOT voting for the MSA "ticket" which isn't really a "ticket". Fortunately the current BOE and Bitner/Vaughn understand the value of early college and support PSEO, one of the many reasons they will be getting the votes in my family.
Your story is incomplete. There is more to the story but I know it doesn't fit with your agenda. The more competitive colleges (i.e., harder to get into) often will not take PSEO credits because the rigor of the curriculum at the college they were taken at can vary widely. They do however, accept AP classes because they are based on a known national standard. I can't speak to the information you shared above but I do know you left out a strong reason for not taking PSEO if you child is a good student.
The Next Day

Springboro, OH

#28778 Nov 5, 2013
I am hearing that Bitner and Vaughn put marketing literature in people's mail boxes last night. Being politicians, they should know better. While it may sound trivial, that is against the law. Only the Postal Service can do that. I should know, I've been called on the carpet by the Postal Service for distributing information to my neighborhood about a group get-together.

Feels like one more example of them and their PAC of believing that certain laws don't apply to them or others of their idealogical bent.
Vote Today

Dayton, OH

#28779 Nov 5, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
I am hearing that Bitner and Vaughn put marketing literature in people's mail boxes last night. Being politicians, they should know better. While it may sound trivial, that is against the law. Only the Postal Service can do that. I should know, I've been called on the carpet by the Postal Service for distributing information to my neighborhood about a group get-together.
Feels like one more example of them and their PAC of believing that certain laws don't apply to them or others of their idealogical bent.
You are correct and by law it is not legal but it is enforced as much as tearing the tags off your mattresses. With that said I doubt Bitner and Vaughn did this but some of their volunteers certainly could have. In the end it is trivial as you mentioned.

Did anyone notice Malone had a lawn chair with him. Got to get that nap in.
My Experience

Springboro, OH

#28780 Nov 5, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
<quoted text>
Your story is incomplete. There is more to the story but I know it doesn't fit with your agenda. The more competitive colleges (i.e., harder to get into) often will not take PSEO credits because the rigor of the curriculum at the college they were taken at can vary widely. They do however, accept AP classes because they are based on a known national standard. I can't speak to the information you shared above but I do know you left out a strong reason for not taking PSEO if you child is a good student.
Your comments are incorrect. A smart parent/student/advisor will first find out a students future plans then learn what that school accepts and work backwards in determining where to take PSEO courses. They may even utilize Transfer.org , a website colleges even use to see which classes will be accepted at various colleges and then make their choices. Also, its good to have a backup plan for alternative colleges since sometimes the first choice college doesn't work out. Again, the credit awarded for AP classes is based on one test and a whole year's worth of class. The student may have a bad day on test day or be smart but not a good test taker and this effects their score. Then the awarding of AP credit is so varied from college to college so no I didn't leave anything important out of my comment. AP classes keeps money in the district and secures jobs for teachers, neither of which was the goal of my own children's education. Why, because I was looking out for the children and not the job security of unionized teachers, which is exactly what Rigano, Petroni, Bitner, and Vaughn will do.
The Next Day

Springboro, OH

#28781 Nov 5, 2013
My Experience wrote:
<quoted text>
Your comments are incorrect. A smart parent/student/advisor will first find out a students future plans then learn what that school accepts and work backwards in determining where to take PSEO courses. They may even utilize Transfer.org , a website colleges even use to see which classes will be accepted at various colleges and then make their choices. Also, its good to have a backup plan for alternative colleges since sometimes the first choice college doesn't work out. Again, the credit awarded for AP classes is based on one test and a whole year's worth of class. The student may have a bad day on test day or be smart but not a good test taker and this effects their score. Then the awarding of AP credit is so varied from college to college so no I didn't leave anything important out of my comment. AP classes keeps money in the district and secures jobs for teachers, neither of which was the goal of my own children's education. Why, because I was looking out for the children and not the job security of unionized teachers, which is exactly what Rigano, Petroni, Bitner, and Vaughn will do.
I understand and agree with many of your comments but I think you missed my point. Based on direct conversations had with Admissions Counselors at several colleges, those colleges that are harder to get into are much more likely to accept AP credits than PSEO credits. For example, a PSEO credit from MUM or Sinclair may not be accepted by a top tier college because they don't have a good benchmark for the rigor and toughness of the class, whereas, with AP, they do know the level of rigor of the material. I agree that both PSEO and AP credits are important for our district to offer.

I am very concerned that our AP offering is below where it should be. I am not convinced the current BOE is going to take it to where it needs to go because it would require funds and they are working hard to minimize taxes (and they spend time on tangents like charter schools, Constitution classes, Creationism, etc.). I also think our community is going through a transition as an increasing number of our fellow citizens have gone to better colleges than was the norm in the past. Examples of the demographic profile we are moving towards are Oakwood and Centerville in our area and Dublin in the Columbus area or some of the suburban Cincinnati schools. Our curriculum should be more like theirs than perhaps the districts we have traditionally compared ourselves to. Not trying to sound elitist but rather trying to be realistic.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#28782 Nov 5, 2013
[QUOTE who="Great Idea"
I just voted MSA for Springboro School Board: those who value and understand 'normal' life should do the same![/QUOTE]

Please tell us what exactly which of Mr. Bitner and Mr Vaughn beliefs you disagree with today.

BELIEVE
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe in order to deliver the highest level of education we must raise the bar well past the state minimums and strive to challenge our children, parents, and staff to reach higher. We can and must do better, our children’s future depends on our actions today.

• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that allocating resources from areas of less demand to areas of greater demand is one common sense approach to resolving needs in our schools. Federal and state mandates may preclude some reallocation, but we are still left with a sizable amount to influence.

• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that in order to take advantage of the higher level classes at the high school, more children must be put on that track at earlier grade levels.

Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support Mr. Petrey’s move towards emphasis on more development in the earliest grade levels. While not all children will eventually end in a calculus class in high school, we can certainly better prepare them all for post graduate success. And that benefits everyone.

• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that the future belongs to technology. It is absolutely essential that we recognize technology not as a means to an end, but as a conduit through which knowledge flows. Much like the wires that flow to our houses bringing electricity, our technology investments are being made to ensure the future flow of knowledge to our children.

• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that leveraging school fees, services, personnel decisions, safety, or infrastructure maintenance to threaten families in order to influence regular or levy elections is wrong.
justice

Springboro, OH

#28783 Nov 5, 2013
In 12 hrs we will finally be on our way to bringing back Springboro with MSA. It is so embarrassing to watch what these other 2 candidates have done to our reputation. We want people on our board who represent honesty and who are really wanting to help this district. We are finally going to see justice and have the right people representing our schools. Bye bye Kohls. Rigano and Petroni will be next. Your opinion won't matter because you will be the minority. The people of Springboro are tired of your scare tactics and illegal actions. This district has spent too much money on legal fees. Money that should have been used for our children. This community doesn't want you.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#28784 Nov 5, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand and agree with many of your comments but I think you missed my point. Based on direct conversations had with Admissions Counselors at several colleges, those colleges that are harder to get into are much more likely to accept AP credits than PSEO credits. For example, a PSEO credit from MUM or Sinclair may not be accepted by a top tier college because they don't have a good benchmark for the rigor and toughness of the class, whereas, with AP, they do know the level of rigor of the material. I agree that both PSEO and AP credits are important for our district to offer.
I am very concerned that our AP offering is below where it should be. I am not convinced the current BOE is going to take it to where it needs to go because it would require funds and they are working hard to minimize taxes (and they spend time on tangents like charter schools, Constitution classes, Creationism, etc.). I also think our community is going through a transition as an increasing number of our fellow citizens have gone to better colleges than was the norm in the past. Examples of the demographic profile we are moving towards are Oakwood and Centerville in our area and Dublin in the Columbus area or some of the suburban Cincinnati schools. Our curriculum should be more like theirs than perhaps the districts we have traditionally compared ourselves to. Not trying to sound elitist but rather trying to be realistic.
Teaching your kids how to go to college while they are still at home with all its attendant opportunities, both good and bad, is plus for the children. Getting out of the cozy confines of SHS and learning to sit in a classroom of strangers, either do your homework or don't, either go to class or don't, learning that you are now the responsible party for your fate, are lessons that cannot be purchased in the hallways of SHS.

Making excuses for not doing so shows you are not serious about the children's future.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#28785 Nov 5, 2013
justice wrote:
In 12 hrs we will finally be on our way to bringing back Springboro with MSA. It is so embarrassing to watch what these other 2 candidates have done to our reputation. We want people on our board who represent honesty and who are really wanting to help this district. We are finally going to see justice and have the right people representing our schools. Bye bye Kohls. Rigano and Petroni will be next. Your opinion won't matter because you will be the minority. The people of Springboro are tired of your scare tactics and illegal actions. This district has spent too much money on legal fees. Money that should have been used for our children. This community doesn't want you.
Bringing back endless levies, lessening the strength of our curriculum, delaying or ignoring facility maintenance and upkeep, reducing opportunities for our children, rewarding the union for its support,
etc. etc etc.

Sorry, but that is a road to no where for our children.

Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support the progress made since the last school board election.

• Renewal levy that saves taxpayers $6.5 million, yet still produces a surplus.

• Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, as well as restored busing, and and long neglected building maintenance.

• Money and resources to the gifted and early intervention programs.

• Raising the academic bar for students and teachers. We are better than #97 in the state.

• Adding ACT/College Essentials class, emphasizing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options (PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.

• Balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.

• Technology plan with 1,100 new computers, wireless access for every building, and laptops to every teacher .

Which part of this agenda do you disagree with today and why?
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#28786 Nov 5, 2013
Truth is that in Mr. Malone failed to advance the strength of our high school curriculum.

These are not my words but those of the Warren County Educational Service Center, professional peers from the education world evaluating the program of studies of Mr. Malone's high school.

This was written in 2010 and again in 2012,(Mr Malone apparently did not heed their recommendation in 2010).

page 10

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HS ...

" Documents provided to the Technical Assistance Team (TAV) indicate that contrary to the High Schools That Works (HSTW) philosophy, SHS believes that offering low-level courses is in the best interest of students. This belief, however, WAS NOT SUBSTANTIATED by research or data."

Superintendent Baker asked in his goals for 2008 for an increase of 15% participation in A/P classes and honors classes.

The Warren County Education Service Center audit of our program of studies for 2010 noted that Mr. Malone delivered not an increase but a DECREASE of 43% on his goal from 2 years earlier.

"Although SHS offers numerous AP courses and PSEO options, only 20 percent students report they attempted to earn college credit during high school. This is a DECREASE of 43 percent from 2008, and 60 percent below the HSTW goal. See Table 8. "

Argue against that truth if you can, those are not my words, but those of professional educators.

Vote for the three that were not involved in the dumbing down of our curriculum.

Vote Bitner, Vaughn, and Anderson
Tired of all of you

United States

#28787 Nov 5, 2013
Mr. Wiedeman, I BELIEVE you're an idiot.
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us what exactly which of Mr. Bitner and Mr Vaughn beliefs you disagree with today.
BELIEVE
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe in order to deliver the highest level of education we must raise the bar well past the state minimums and strive to challenge our children, parents, and staff to reach higher. We can and must do better, our children’s future depends on our actions today.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that allocating resources from areas of less demand to areas of greater demand is one common sense approach to resolving needs in our schools. Federal and state mandates may preclude some reallocation, but we are still left with a sizable amount to influence.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that in order to take advantage of the higher level classes at the high school, more children must be put on that track at earlier grade levels.
Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support Mr. Petrey’s move towards emphasis on more development in the earliest grade levels. While not all children will eventually end in a calculus class in high school, we can certainly better prepare them all for post graduate success. And that benefits everyone.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that the future belongs to technology. It is absolutely essential that we recognize technology not as a means to an end, but as a conduit through which knowledge flows. Much like the wires that flow to our houses bringing electricity, our technology investments are being made to ensure the future flow of knowledge to our children.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that leveraging school fees, services, personnel decisions, safety, or infrastructure maintenance to threaten families in order to influence regular or levy elections is wrong.
poundsand

Dayton, OH

#28788 Nov 5, 2013
justice wrote:
In 12 hrs we will finally be on our way to bringing back Springboro with MSA. It is so embarrassing to watch what these other 2 candidates have done to our reputation. We want people on our board who represent honesty and who are really wanting to help this district. We are finally going to see justice and have the right people representing our schools. Bye bye Kohls. Rigano and Petroni will be next. Your opinion won't matter because you will be the minority. The people of Springboro are tired of your scare tactics and illegal actions. This district has spent too much money on legal fees. Money that should have been used for our children. This community doesn't want you.
Yes, let's regress back to the Baker era when our school district was so much more reputable and honest.

Here's a refresher on how 'justice' and the right people representing our schools handled things:

* Capped high school class sizes in the 20s, while other grades who most need teacher attention, had larger class sizes (often up to 30).

* Taught the majority to meet the proficient standard (proficient is a OAA test score in 8th grade >40), while our district receives a “D” in gifted education and a “C” for our more challenged, lowest 20%.

* Ignored the changing curriculum and testing standards for students.

* Charged higher pay-to-play and school fees than were necessary.

* Failed to plan for technology in our classrooms and then spending resources on wireless technology that was inadequate and required replacement.

* Ignored recommendations to improve the rigor of our high school academic programs by failing to promote college credit options for our students.

* Reacted to circumstances and spent more than budgeted instead of planning to invest and keeping up our buildings, grounds and bus fleet.

* Assumed the only solution was higher taxes and proposed yearly levies to pass.

Yes, let's return to the good old days bringing back Springboro with MSA!!
Blah blah blah

Dayton, OH

#28789 Nov 5, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us what exactly which of Mr. Bitner and Mr Vaughn beliefs you disagree with today.
BELIEVE
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe in order to deliver the highest level of education we must raise the bar well past the state minimums and strive to challenge our children, parents, and staff to reach higher. We can and must do better, our children’s future depends on our actions today.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that allocating resources from areas of less demand to areas of greater demand is one common sense approach to resolving needs in our schools. Federal and state mandates may preclude some reallocation, but we are still left with a sizable amount to influence.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that in order to take advantage of the higher level classes at the high school, more children must be put on that track at earlier grade levels.
Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support Mr. Petrey’s move towards emphasis on more development in the earliest grade levels. While not all children will eventually end in a calculus class in high school, we can certainly better prepare them all for post graduate success. And that benefits everyone.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that the future belongs to technology. It is absolutely essential that we recognize technology not as a means to an end, but as a conduit through which knowledge flows. Much like the wires that flow to our houses bringing electricity, our technology investments are being made to ensure the future flow of knowledge to our children.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that leveraging school fees, services, personnel decisions, safety, or infrastructure maintenance to threaten families in order to influence regular or levy elections is wrong.
Mr. Wiedeman, I BELIEVE you're an idiot.
Blah blah blah

Dayton, OH

#28790 Nov 5, 2013
NOT A CHANCE!!!!!
VOTE BITNER VAUGHN wrote:
TODAY... the People's Voice Will Be Heard...and
that's a Priceless Thing! God Bless America!
VOTE BITNER/VAUGHN!
VOTE RENEWAL LEVY!
IT'S FOR OUR STUDENTS FIRST, OUR SCHOOL EMPLOYEES, AND OUR COMMUNITY OF TAXPAYERS!
DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO VOTE FOR THREE!
IT JUST TAKES TWO FOR VICTORY OVER UNION
SOLIDARITY!
VOTE FOR BOTH
**DAVID BITNER and KOLTON VAUGHN**
Your only TWO Conservative Candidates WHO
can bring VICTORY To Our Students FIRST
over Unionism Indoctrination in the Classroom!
VOTE BITNER/VAUGHN!
VOTE RENEWAL LEVY!
GOD BLESS AMERICA and MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND
YOUR FAMILY!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#28791 Nov 5, 2013
what are your credentials to make such a "pol" statement please provide the facts
Blah blah blah wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Wiedeman, I BELIEVE you're an idiot.
Heart Burn

United States

#28792 Nov 5, 2013
Blah blah blah wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Wiedeman, I BELIEVE you're an idiot.
Another MSA supporter showing her depth of wit and insight. lol
justice

Springboro, OH

#28793 Nov 5, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Bringing back endless levies, lessening the strength of our curriculum, delaying or ignoring facility maintenance and upkeep, reducing opportunities for our children, rewarding the union for its support,
etc. etc etc.
Sorry, but that is a road to no where for our children.
Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support the progress made since the last school board election.
• Renewal levy that saves taxpayers $6.5 million, yet still produces a surplus.
• Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, as well as restored busing, and and long neglected building maintenance.
• Money and resources to the gifted and early intervention programs.
• Raising the academic bar for students and teachers. We are better than #97 in the state.
• Adding ACT/College Essentials class, emphasizing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options (PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.
• Balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.
• Technology plan with 1,100 new computers, wireless access for every building, and laptops to every teacher .
Which part of this agenda do you disagree with today and why?
Boy Doug you have all the answers don't you. Do you hold a job? The amount of time you spend on this site is crazy. You should run for the board! Oh wait, too many skeletons in the closet.
Great Idea

Dayton, OH

#28794 Nov 5, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us what exactly which of Mr. Bitner and Mr Vaughn beliefs you disagree with today.
BELIEVE
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe in order to deliver the highest level of education we must raise the bar well past the state minimums and strive to challenge our children, parents, and staff to reach higher. We can and must do better, our children’s future depends on our actions today.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that allocating resources from areas of less demand to areas of greater demand is one common sense approach to resolving needs in our schools. Federal and state mandates may preclude some reallocation, but we are still left with a sizable amount to influence.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that in order to take advantage of the higher level classes at the high school, more children must be put on that track at earlier grade levels.
Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn support Mr. Petrey’s move towards emphasis on more development in the earliest grade levels. While not all children will eventually end in a calculus class in high school, we can certainly better prepare them all for post graduate success. And that benefits everyone.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that the future belongs to technology. It is absolutely essential that we recognize technology not as a means to an end, but as a conduit through which knowledge flows. Much like the wires that flow to our houses bringing electricity, our technology investments are being made to ensure the future flow of knowledge to our children.
• Mr. Bitner and Mr. Vaughn believe that leveraging school fees, services, personnel decisions, safety, or infrastructure maintenance to threaten families in order to influence regular or levy elections is wrong.
Do BITNER and VAUGHN know that they believe all this? You better fill them in and coach them up!
Because so far, when asked for their beliefs and how exactly they are so 'CHILDREN FIRST'- their answers have sounded something like "whatever WIEDEMAN, PETRONI, and RIGANO want us to believe - and are willing to pay for!"
We tirelessly know what you believe, DOUG - we just don't know what BITNER and VAUGHN believe! WIEDEMAN, why don 't you just run for school board? Oh yeah, sorry, never mind.........
VOTED BITNER-VAUGHN

Springboro, OH

#28795 Nov 5, 2013
Blah blah blah wrote:
NOT A CHANCE!!!!!
<quoted text>
Wanna Bet on that? You lose! Already Voted Bitner-Vaughn!
... and that's a sure thing.

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