Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Dayton Daily News

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27,341 - 27,360 of 31,218 Comments Last updated 6 hrs ago
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27839 Oct 10, 2013
China wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, the Chinese are able to achieve their high standards on testing and such because they do not educate every child as we do in this country. They have a "free market" system alright - they only educate those that can score high on achievement tests. And you are correct - they don't lower the bar for anyone. They don't actually set a bar for certain segments of their population. And typically, as I have researched, the Chinese only report test scores from certain areas of the country where students tend to score higher on standardized tests, than other parts of the country where they don't....or don't really educate at all.
And while we should want and expect ALL students in our district to be high achievers, some simply are not. And not that we shouldn't strive to create an environment that allows ALL students to be high achievers, we absolutely should with every waking moment we have.....but some kids are proficient and that is the best they will be. And you know what - that is ok if that is who the individual child is. Sorry, but that is the reality. Not everyone is meant to go to college. Not everyone is meant to be CEO of a company. Just like some kids can run fast and some can't. Some kids can throw a baseball and some can't.
No they reward the best students with the best opportunities, to say they stop educating children is a falsehood. Like us they guarantee and education through nine years, what they accomplish in those nine years is more than what we accomplish through 10 years.

We know not all children are created equally, but all can excel past the point of where they are today. Resting comfortably in failure is not an option I wish on the majority of children in this district.

I refuse to believe that well over half of the children in Springboro are incapable of scoring more than 75% on a basic achievement test.

You do not need to go to college to do basic math, but it certainly helps in life.
go to rear of class

Girard, OH

#27840 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
What class in citizenship are you talking about (I was naturally born). From my research I have found:
"The flag was also appropriated for political gain. In 1896, the campaign manager for Republican presidential candidate William McKinley distributed millions of flags for use at McKinley's rallies. The McKinley campaign also distributed buttons bearing the likeness of a flag, as symbols of support for the candidate."
- http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
We also see that using the American Flag for political gain is used frequently.
"Use of American Flag in Banner Image of U.S. Representatives' Campaign Websites by Party
Party Yes No Total % Flag
Republican 73 82 155 47.1
Democrat 74 139 213 34.7
Total 147 221 368 39.9
Data compiled by Smart Politics. "
-http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/ smartpolitics/2010/04/how_do_m embers_of_congress_use.php
Now, flag etiquette states:
"The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard."
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml
I see that the flags are on TOP of the sign. The signs are not attached to the staff or halyard.
Bottom line is this:
"The Flag Code is a codification of customs and rules established for the use of certain civilians and civilian groups. No penalty or punishment is specified in the Flag Code for display of the flag of the United States in a manner other than as suggested. Cases which have construed the former 36 U.S.C.ß 17521 have concluded that the Flag Code does not proscribe conduct, but is merely declaratory and advisory.22"
-http://www.senate.gov/referen ce/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in a citizenship class.
China

Springboro, OH

#27841 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
No they reward the best students with the best opportunities, to say they stop educating children is a falsehood. Like us they guarantee and education through nine years, what they accomplish in those nine years is more than what we accomplish through 10 years.
We know not all children are created equally, but all can excel past the point of where they are today. Resting comfortably in failure is not an option I wish on the majority of children in this district.
I refuse to believe that well over half of the children in Springboro are incapable of scoring more than 75% on a basic achievement test.
You do not need to go to college to do basic math, but it certainly helps in life.
Excerpt from a University of Michigan report on the Chinese educational system....

"One negative aspect of the Chinese education system is that high stakes testing in order to pass into the next grade results in many students left with no other choice but to drop out of the school system all together."

So having kids drop out of the schools system, essentially not educating kids that can't pass the test, is "guaranteeing" education? No, this is "stopping" their education.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27842 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of class wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in a citizenship class.
I understand, I'm just not as easily offended as some. My point is A LOT of other politicians (dem and rep) do the same thing. I don't see your outrage for them.
China

Springboro, OH

#27843 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand, I'm just not as easily offended as some. My point is A LOT of other politicians (dem and rep) do the same thing. I don't see your outrage for them.
If it was one of his/her candidates....you wouldn't hear a peep.
Lerxst

Miamisburg, OH

#27844 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you noticed that as well?
The board bashers go to great lengths to manufacture conflict that does not exist, oppose everything the board proposes, stonewall answers, and provide less than full information when requested.
The one thing the board bashers never seem to do is analyze our district test results.
The state provides over a decades worth of historical data on this subject, yet they never seem to touch it or provide any alternative interpretation as to why PROFICIENT is FAILURE.
Absolutely no one has come forth to defend the granting of the title PROFICIENT to a child who has scored a 34% on an Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
What could they possibly be afraid of in this area?
The question then becomes how to get our esteemed mayor to look at the data and ask the candidates about it. I won't hold my breath.
Lerxst

Miamisburg, OH

#27845 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is simply that if all children in the country score 34% then maybe it's the test that is the problem.
After China, what's your excuse for the 16 other countries that scored higher than the US?
What about Canada where education is "for the most part provided publicly, funded and overseen by federal, provincial, and local governments."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Can...
What say you?
If 34% of our kids find that 2+2=5 that is most certainly not a problem with the test. And grading on a curve will never make 2+2=5. Smoke and mirrors to make everyone seem like they are smarter than they are does no one any favors. Time for this sham to be exposed and get answers as to why failure is deemed proficient.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27846 Oct 10, 2013
Not so fast....

2 + 2 = 5


Actually, there's a site for it:

http://www.2plus2equal5.com/

and a song by Radiohead.

Also if unlimited parallel universe's are possible then in ONE of those 2+2 would equal 5.

And for good measure here is a proof that 1=2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Math is a wonderful thing! lol
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27847 Oct 10, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
If 34% of our kids find that 2+2=5 that is most certainly not a problem with the test. And grading on a curve will never make 2+2=5. Smoke and mirrors to make everyone seem like they are smarter than they are does no one any favors. Time for this sham to be exposed and get answers as to why failure is deemed proficient.
And actauly what you are saying is that if I ask 100 kids if 2+2=5, over one third of them will tell me correct? What ages? Since I'm assuming this is about Doug and his critic of Malone then I should be asking HS kids. You could that at the game Friday. How much you want to bet more than 90% get it right? Your example of 2+2=5 serves my point. If they are asked "A wagon train that is one mile long advances one mile at a constant rate. During the same time period, the wagon master rides his horse at a constant rate from the front of the wagon train to the rear, and then back to the front. How far did that wagon master ride? " then probably not as many would be able to know that the answer is 2.41421 miles.- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
November Truth

Girard, OH

#27848 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
The only one's with a "different philosophy" are MSA. They have differing ideas from the current BOE majority.
Oh yeah? Go ahead and print MSA's "different philosophy" here on this thread. A good laugh sure never hurt anyone.
The Next Day

Amelia, OH

#27849 Oct 10, 2013
Spread the Great News wrote:
School distrct voters need only ask ourselves one question to clearly understand that we should stay the course of Students First/Responsible Budgeting
at the polls on November 5, 2013.
WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?
Look at the Past...
Failure of five levy attempts in two years, each asking for $30-$40 million dollars of new money.
Fees raised, busing cut, staff reduced, and maintenance deferred.
"D" grade on gifted intervention and "C" grade on the lowest 20% in achievement from state.
Standard of mediocrity - from contracting out our preschoolservices to acceting "Proficient" as an acceptable test score.
Weakened curriculum in high school program, fewer students taking advantage of Advanced Placement and other early college credit opportunities.
Ignored new state testing mandate for technology. Neglected instructional technology.
WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?
Look At Today and the Future ...
Renewal levy saves taxpayers $6.5 million over the five year life of the levy, while continuing to generate surplus.
Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, busing restored, staff cuts reversed, long neglected building and ground maintenance funded.
Efficiency plans reallocate resources from uder utilized programs to gifted and early intervention. Putting money where it is neded!
Disrict run preschool instead of outsourcing, saving$132,000 each year. Analyzing data to expose "Proficient" as failing. Raising the bar for students and teachers.
Adding ACT/College Essentials class, balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.
Emphasing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options
(PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.
Coordinated technology plan with wireless access for every building, laptops to every teacher, and more than 1100 new computers.
I take issue with a couple of this points:
- The "D" rating happened on this BOE's watch. Where's the accountability?
- The cut in the levy amount is because of the pipeline tax revenue which the BOE had nothing to do with.
You call that a debate

Bucyrus, OH

#27850 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
The only one's with a "different philosophy" are MSA. They have differing ideas from the current BOE majority.
As for debates, what about the League of Women Voters? Don't you understand that ANY debate would be an SEA pep rally because those most interested would be the teachers & staff and they would show up to ANY debate? I would think that if B & V did have ANY backbone they would realize the importance of ANY chance to debate during an election. The press alone that they "refused to show up" will be enough to ensure their defeat. Fair or not, like it or not this is the game that is our political system.
You see it your way and I see it mine. Whatever the outcome is, I can assure you it has nothing to do with your game of gotcha.
Lerxst

Girard, OH

#27851 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
And actauly what you are saying is that if I ask 100 kids if 2+2=5, over one third of them will tell me correct? What ages? Since I'm assuming this is about Doug and his critic of Malone then I should be asking HS kids. You could that at the game Friday. How much you want to bet more than 90% get it right? Your example of 2+2=5 serves my point. If they are asked "A wagon train that is one mile long advances one mile at a constant rate. During the same time period, the wagon master rides his horse at a constant rate from the front of the wagon train to the rear, and then back to the front. How far did that wagon master ride? " then probably not as many would be able to know that the answer is 2.41421 miles.- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
No, that's not what I'm saying nor does my example serve your point. Here's my point. Math has either a correct or incorrect answer. No in between. If only 34% get my (or even your) math question right that is most certainly NOT proficient. Yet, Springboro schools would tell you they are. See?
No debate means No choice

Maineville, OH

#27852 Oct 10, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's not what I'm saying nor does my example serve your point. Here's my point. Math has either a correct or incorrect answer. No in between. If only 34% get my (or even your) math question right that is most certainly NOT proficient. Yet, Springboro schools would tell you they are. See?
Your point is incorrect. Math isn't always correct or incorrect, that would make it an exact science. The following shows it is not (always) exact.

"Probably a teacher learns as much from his students as the student learns from his teacher. Some years ago when I was attempting to introduce the concept of negative and fractional exponents to a class in college algebra I had a student bring the text which he had studied in high school. He pointed out the statement: "The student will see that it is impossible for an exponent to be anything but a positive integer." I could find no qualifying statement. The student asked, "In the face of this contradiction how do you justify your statement that mathematics is an exact science?"

-http://www.mathteacherctk.com /blog/2010/12/is-mathematics-a n-exact-science/

Also you can look up "The effort to axiomatize geometry and other branches of mathematics only shows that mathematics is not a perfect science. Axiomatization is done not only to organize mathematics, but also to avoid contradiction. In fact, Kurt Godel proved that you cannot create an axiomatic system that is free from contradiction. The theorem is called Godelís Incompleteness Theorem."
-http://mathandmultimedia.com/ 2010/10/11/is-mathematics-an-e xact-science/

And of course there is pseudomathematics, theorms as well as statistics which are both not exact. We still haven't reached the end of pi.

The more you know....
Straight to the Point

Akron, OH

#27853 Oct 10, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
<quoted text>
I take issue with a couple of this points:
- The "D" rating happened on this BOE's watch. Where's the accountability?
- The cut in the levy amount is because of the pipeline tax revenue which the BOE had nothing to do with.
I strongly disagree with your "couple of this points."

Truth is: Mr. Malone, who has been a high school principal for 13 years, is to be held accountable for what happened, or didn't happen, on "his watch."

Truth is: The cut in the levy is because this board recognized that taxpayers have generously supported our great schools for decades; and there was enough money to support a quality classroom education for STUDENTS FIRST; and a pay increase for every school employee; and enough money to give Springboro taxpayers a slight reduction in levy costs!

Truth is: It's a win-win situation for all!

Truth is: Not all our union school employees are celebrating a
win-win situation for all; Some of our union school employees think the union should have had it all.

Wonder why that is?
No debate means No choice

Maineville, OH

#27854 Oct 10, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's not what I'm saying nor does my example serve your point. Here's my point. Math has either a correct or incorrect answer. No in between. If only 34% get my (or even your) math question right that is most certainly NOT proficient. Yet, Springboro schools would tell you they are. See?
'

Also if you would look at Doug's post, it states "January 2013 notes "only 43% of the Springboro High School students have completed the High Schools That Work recommended curriculum (Ohio Core), a 34% DECREASE from 2008."

It was a 34% decrease. That means that in 2008 and before we had 77%. It has fallen 34% in the past 5 years, under the current BOE.

Where was the BOE during this time? Were they not aware of this? Do they not hold ANY responsibilty?

The students who took the test in 2012 would have just been entering high school in 2008, why are we not posting any blame on the Junior High Principal?
No debate means No choice

Maineville, OH

#27855 Oct 10, 2013
Straight to the Point wrote:
<quoted text>
I strongly disagree with your "couple of this points."
Truth is: Mr. Malone, who has been a high school principal for 13 years, is to be held accountable for what happened, or didn't happen, on "his watch."
Truth is: The cut in the levy is because this board recognized that taxpayers have generously supported our great schools for decades; and there was enough money to support a quality classroom education for STUDENTS FIRST; and a pay increase for every school employee; and enough money to give Springboro taxpayers a slight reduction in levy costs!
Truth is: It's a win-win situation for all!
Truth is: Not all our union school employees are celebrating a
win-win situation for all; Some of our union school employees think the union should have had it all.
Wonder why that is?
So all the stuff that has happened and the BOE is taking credit for (lowering budgets, etc.) actually should be accounted to Mr. Malone since it happened during "his watch". Who would have thought?
Lerxst

Girard, OH

#27856 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
Your point is incorrect. Math isn't always correct or incorrect, that would make it an exact science. The following shows it is not (always) exact.
"Probably a teacher learns as much from his students as the student learns from his teacher. Some years ago when I was attempting to introduce the concept of negative and fractional exponents to a class in college algebra I had a student bring the text which he had studied in high school. He pointed out the statement: "The student will see that it is impossible for an exponent to be anything but a positive integer." I could find no qualifying statement. The student asked, "In the face of this contradiction how do you justify your statement that mathematics is an exact science?"
-http://www.mathteacherctk.com /blog/2010/12/is-mathematics-a n-exact-science/
Also you can look up "The effort to axiomatize geometry and other branches of mathematics only shows that mathematics is not a perfect science. Axiomatization is done not only to organize mathematics, but also to avoid contradiction. In fact, Kurt Godel proved that you cannot create an axiomatic system that is free from contradiction. The theorem is called Godelís Incompleteness Theorem."
-http://mathandmultimedia.com/ 2010/10/11/is-mathematics-an-e xact-science/
And of course there is pseudomathematics, theorms as well as statistics which are both not exact. We still haven't reached the end of pi.
The more you know....
That's perfectly reasonable. What's not reasonable is thinking that a paltry 34% by our students on math is proficient. We are talking elementary, jr high and high school students learning the basics of math here. Not wholly axiomatic systems full of contradictions. Sorry, 34% is not proficient. It's failure.
Voter

Girard, OH

#27857 Oct 11, 2013
Hey Bitner Vaughn supporters. There are three open school board seats. Which of the other three remaining candidates would you be most likely to vote for on election day?
Spread the Great News

Akron, OH

#27858 Oct 11, 2013
School distrct voters need only ask ourselves one question to clearly understand that we should stay the course of Students First/Responsible Budgeting
at the polls on November 5, 2013.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look at the Past...

Failure of five levy attempts in two years, each asking for $30-$40 million dollars of new money.

Fees raised, busing cut, staff reduced, and maintenance deferred.

"D" grade on gifted intervention and "C" grade on the lowest 20% in achievement from state.

Standard of mediocrity - from contracting out our preschoolservices to acceting "Proficient" as an acceptable test score.

Weakened curriculum in high school program, fewer students taking advantage of Advanced Placement and other early college credit opportunities.

Ignored new state testing mandate for technology. Neglected instructional technology.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look At Today and the Future ...

Renewal levy saves taxpayers $6.5 million over the five year life of the levy, while continuing to generate surplus.

Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, busing restored, staff cuts reversed, long neglected building and ground maintenance funded.

Efficiency plans reallocate resources from uder utilized programs to gifted and early intervention. Putting money where it is neded!

Disrict run preschool instead of outsourcing, saving$132,000 each year. Analyzing data to expose "Proficient" as failing. Raising the bar for students and teachers.

Adding ACT/College Essentials class, balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.
Emphasing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options
(PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.

Coordinated technology plan with wireless access for every building, laptops to every teacher, and more than 1100 new computers.

LET'S STAY ON THIS COURSE AND MOVE IN THE DIRECTION OF LEADERSHIP FOR OUR CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND COMMUNITY!

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