Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 20 comments on the Feb 5, 2008, Dayton Daily News story titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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thanks mr obvious

Girard, OH

#27824 Oct 10, 2013
partisan wrote:
interesting that wherever I see those black signs of Malone's, the property owners are big union fans...very interesting...what was that about the kids ? Unless one has been on the planet Mars, it's a given if the union people take control of the school board, we will immediately see a levy put on the ballot !
Wow!!
Really ?!?
Ya think ?!?
o-;
go to rear of class

Girard, OH

#27825 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
And exactly how is the flag being "misused".
Also, you spelled apostrophes wrong!
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in citizenship class.

Thank you for the spelling correction. I see it took you an extra three minutes to fish out that one. Today's modern spell-check programs are quite nifty and handy, aren't they?
flags

Springboro, OH

#27826 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
And exactly how is the flag being "misused".
Also, you spelled apostrophes wrong!
The flag is not being used on their candidates' signs...so therefore, the flag is being "mis-used".

The federal law that governs the use and display of the US flag is advisory in nature and there is no penalty for displaying or using the flag contrary to the law's guidance. The US Supreme Court has ruled on this many times.
China

Springboro, OH

#27827 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
The people of Springboro have absolutely zero control over what goes on in any district besides our own. The Springboro School District is positively the only district over which we can maintain any semblance of control over our destiny.
How other districts wish to handle these issues is totally and entirely up to them, the state of Ohio minimum standards, and the federal government's minimum standards.
The Chinese utilize a system of competitive education to garner the results they have achieved. More or less a free market competition that rewards those who perform best. A race to the top with winners and losers, but of one thing you may rest assured, they do not lower the bar to make everyone a "winner".
The people of Springboro know the value of education and where it can and cannot take a child.
The level of expectations in this district is much higher than the state mandated "PROFICIENT".
I dare say, most parents around Springboro are not doing cartwheels in the front yard when little Jimmy or Susie brings home a test with only 34%- 56% correct.
We can and must do better for the sake of our children.
As they say, the longest journey begins with the first step. In Springboro it is acknowledging that we have been led in the pursuit of a false standard of excellence.
We can ill afford to year after year cede precious time and knowledge to others around the world.
For the sake of our children's future we must reject the course of study that demands so little of all of us and strive for true achievement across the board for all children in Springboro.
Actually, the Chinese are able to achieve their high standards on testing and such because they do not educate every child as we do in this country. They have a "free market" system alright - they only educate those that can score high on achievement tests. And you are correct - they don't lower the bar for anyone. They don't actually set a bar for certain segments of their population. And typically, as I have researched, the Chinese only report test scores from certain areas of the country where students tend to score higher on standardized tests, than other parts of the country where they don't....or don't really educate at all.

And while we should want and expect ALL students in our district to be high achievers, some simply are not. And not that we shouldn't strive to create an environment that allows ALL students to be high achievers, we absolutely should with every waking moment we have.....but some kids are proficient and that is the best they will be. And you know what - that is ok if that is who the individual child is. Sorry, but that is the reality. Not everyone is meant to go to college. Not everyone is meant to be CEO of a company. Just like some kids can run fast and some can't. Some kids can throw a baseball and some can't.
You call that a debate

Dayton, OH

#27828 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever seen a debate? I have seen several candidates throw a question at their opponent. If a question is asked the candidate can answer the question, tie it to one he wants to answer and throw it by ending with "I'd like to know how my opponent feels about that". It's a key debating tactic.
I guess if you can't stand the heat...
I am simply expressing my viewpoint. I totally respect Bitner and Vaughn for putting themselves in this race to represent a different philosophy. You are probably right about me though, I couldn't stand the heat so I didn't throw my hat in the ring, which makes me respect these two guys even more. As far as me watching other debates, I can assure you I am very involved in the politics of our nation and I have seen many debates which is exactly why I support Bitner and Vaughn's choice to not attend the SEA pep rally. You see, as I watch politics on a global scale, I get upset every time the candidate I am pulling for agrees to "debate" the opposition strictly on the terms of the opposition. I personally just don't see the reason for it. Bitner and Vaughn seem to have a backbone and I think that shows that they will fight for all the kids in the district.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27829 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of class wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in citizenship class.
Thank you for the spelling correction. I see it took you an extra three minutes to fish out that one. Today's modern spell-check programs are quite nifty and handy, aren't they?
So when I see all the tea party websites with all the flags on them, what does that mean? What about a picture of a flag on a political website in the same shot as the candidate?

As for the spell-check, not handy enough for you to use.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27830 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
The people of Springboro have absolutely zero control over what goes on in any district besides our own. The Springboro School District is positively the only district over which we can maintain any semblance of control over our destiny.
How other districts wish to handle these issues is totally and entirely up to them, the state of Ohio minimum standards, and the federal government's minimum standards.
The Chinese utilize a system of competitive education to garner the results they have achieved. More or less a free market competition that rewards those who perform best. A race to the top with winners and losers, but of one thing you may rest assured, they do not lower the bar to make everyone a "winner".
The people of Springboro know the value of education and where it can and cannot take a child.
The level of expectations in this district is much higher than the state mandated "PROFICIENT".
I dare say, most parents around Springboro are not doing cartwheels in the front yard when little Jimmy or Susie brings home a test with only 34%- 56% correct.
We can and must do better for the sake of our children.
As they say, the longest journey begins with the first step. In Springboro it is acknowledging that we have been led in the pursuit of a false standard of excellence.
We can ill afford to year after year cede precious time and knowledge to others around the world.
For the sake of our children's future we must reject the course of study that demands so little of all of us and strive for true achievement across the board for all children in Springboro.
My point is simply that if all children in the country score 34% then maybe it's the test that is the problem.

After China, what's your excuse for the 16 other countries that scored higher than the US?

What about Canada where education is "for the most part provided publicly, funded and overseen by federal, provincial, and local governments."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Can...

What say you?
Spread the Great News

Akron, OH

#27831 Oct 10, 2013
School distrct voters need only ask ourselves one question to clearly understand that we should stay the course of Students First/Responsible Budgeting
at the polls on November 5, 2013.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look at the Past...

Failure of five levy attempts in two years, each asking for $30-$40 million dollars of new money.

Fees raised, busing cut, staff reduced, and maintenance deferred.

"D" grade on gifted intervention and "C" grade on the lowest 20% in achievement from state.

Standard of mediocrity - from contracting out our preschoolservices to acceting "Proficient" as an acceptable test score.

Weakened curriculum in high school program, fewer students taking advantage of Advanced Placement and other early college credit opportunities.

Ignored new state testing mandate for technology. Neglected instructional technology.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look At Today and the Future ...

Renewal levy saves taxpayers $6.5 million over the five year life of the levy, while continuing to generate surplus.

Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, busing restored, staff cuts reversed, long neglected building and ground maintenance funded.

Efficiency plans reallocate resources from uder utilized programs to gifted and early intervention. Putting money where it is neded!

Disrict run preschool instead of outsourcing, saving$132,000 each year. Analyzing data to expose "Proficient" as failing. Raising the bar for students and teachers.

Adding ACT/College Essentials class, balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.
Emphasing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options
(PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.

Coordinated technology plan with wireless access for every building, laptops to every teacher, and more than 1100 new computers.
Did You Know

Akron, OH

#27832 Oct 10, 2013
partisan wrote:
interesting that wherever I see those black signs of Malone's, the property owners are big union fans...very interesting...what was that about the kids ? Unless one has been on the planet Mars, it's a given if the union people take control of the school board, we will immediately see a levy put on the ballot !
Fresh ideas have allowed our district to sustain itself in an uncertain economy with NO new money required!

If you agree with putting Children First:

Visit http://educatespringboro.org

Share this information with others!
partisan

Dayton, OH

#27833 Oct 10, 2013
thanks mr obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow!!
Really ?!?
Ya think ?!?
o-;
your sarcasm is duly noted.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27834 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of class wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in citizenship class.
Thank you for the spelling correction. I see it took you an extra three minutes to fish out that one. Today's modern spell-check programs are quite nifty and handy, aren't they?
What class in citizenship are you talking about (I was naturally born). From my research I have found:

"The flag was also appropriated for political gain. In 1896, the campaign manager for Republican presidential candidate William McKinley distributed millions of flags for use at McKinley's rallies. The McKinley campaign also distributed buttons bearing the likeness of a flag, as symbols of support for the candidate."

- http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

We also see that using the American Flag for political gain is used frequently.

"Use of American Flag in Banner Image of U.S. Representatives' Campaign Websites by Party

Party Yes No Total % Flag
Republican 73 82 155 47.1
Democrat 74 139 213 34.7
Total 147 221 368 39.9

Data compiled by Smart Politics. "

-http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/ smartpolitics/2010/04/how_do_m embers_of_congress_use.php

Now, flag etiquette states:

"The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard."

http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml

I see that the flags are on TOP of the sign. The signs are not attached to the staff or halyard.

Bottom line is this:

"The Flag Code is a codification of customs and rules established for the use of certain civilians and civilian groups. No penalty or punishment is specified in the Flag Code for display of the flag of the United States in a manner other than as suggested. Cases which have construed the former 36 U.S.C. 17521 have concluded that the Flag Code does not proscribe conduct, but is merely declaratory and advisory.22"

-http://www.senate.gov/referen ce/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
Did You Know

Akron, OH

#27836 Oct 10, 2013
partisan wrote:
interesting that wherever I see those black signs of Malone's, the property owners are big union fans...very interesting...what was that about the kids ? Unless one has been on the planet Mars, it's a given if the union people take control of the school board, we will immediately see a levy put on the ballot !
Fresh ideas have allowed our district to sustain itself in an uncertain economy with NO new money required.

If you agree with putting Children First

Visit http://educatespringboro.org

Share this information with others
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27837 Oct 10, 2013
You call that a debate wrote:
<quoted text>
I am simply expressing my viewpoint. I totally respect Bitner and Vaughn for putting themselves in this race to represent a different philosophy. You are probably right about me though, I couldn't stand the heat so I didn't throw my hat in the ring, which makes me respect these two guys even more. As far as me watching other debates, I can assure you I am very involved in the politics of our nation and I have seen many debates which is exactly why I support Bitner and Vaughn's choice to not attend the SEA pep rally. You see, as I watch politics on a global scale, I get upset every time the candidate I am pulling for agrees to "debate" the opposition strictly on the terms of the opposition. I personally just don't see the reason for it. Bitner and Vaughn seem to have a backbone and I think that shows that they will fight for all the kids in the district.
The only one's with a "different philosophy" are MSA. They have differing ideas from the current BOE majority.

As for debates, what about the League of Women Voters? Don't you understand that ANY debate would be an SEA pep rally because those most interested would be the teachers & staff and they would show up to ANY debate? I would think that if B & V did have ANY backbone they would realize the importance of ANY chance to debate during an election. The press alone that they "refused to show up" will be enough to ensure their defeat. Fair or not, like it or not this is the game that is our political system.
Spread the Great News

Akron, OH

#27838 Oct 10, 2013
School distrct voters need only ask ourselves one question to clearly understand that we should stay the course of Students First/Responsible Budgeting
at the polls on November 5, 2013.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look at the Past...

Failure of five levy attempts in two years, each asking for $30-$40 million dollars of new money.

Fees raised, busing cut, staff reduced, and maintenance deferred.

"D" grade on gifted intervention and "C" grade on the lowest 20% in achievement from state.

Standard of mediocrity - from contracting out our preschoolservices to acceting "Proficient" as an acceptable test score.

Weakened curriculum in high school program, fewer students taking advantage of Advanced Placement and other early college credit opportunities.

Ignored new state testing mandate for technology. Neglected instructional technology.

WHY WOULD OUR COMMUNITY WISH TO GO BACK?

Look At Today and the Future ...

Renewal levy saves taxpayers $6.5 million over the five year life of the levy, while continuing to generate surplus.

Reduced school fees, lower pay to participate fees, busing restored, staff cuts reversed, long neglected building and ground maintenance funded.

Efficiency plans reallocate resources from uder utilized programs to gifted and early intervention. Putting money where it is neded!

Disrict run preschool instead of outsourcing, saving$132,000 each year. Analyzing data to expose "Proficient" as failing. Raising the bar for students and teachers.

Adding ACT/College Essentials class, balancing class sizes, and strengthening our curriculum.
Emphasing early college credit programs through the high school, Post Secondary Enrollment Options
(PSEO), Advanced Placement, and Dual Credit courses.

Coordinated technology plan with wireless access for every building, laptops to every teacher, and more than 1100 new computers.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27839 Oct 10, 2013
China wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, the Chinese are able to achieve their high standards on testing and such because they do not educate every child as we do in this country. They have a "free market" system alright - they only educate those that can score high on achievement tests. And you are correct - they don't lower the bar for anyone. They don't actually set a bar for certain segments of their population. And typically, as I have researched, the Chinese only report test scores from certain areas of the country where students tend to score higher on standardized tests, than other parts of the country where they don't....or don't really educate at all.
And while we should want and expect ALL students in our district to be high achievers, some simply are not. And not that we shouldn't strive to create an environment that allows ALL students to be high achievers, we absolutely should with every waking moment we have.....but some kids are proficient and that is the best they will be. And you know what - that is ok if that is who the individual child is. Sorry, but that is the reality. Not everyone is meant to go to college. Not everyone is meant to be CEO of a company. Just like some kids can run fast and some can't. Some kids can throw a baseball and some can't.
No they reward the best students with the best opportunities, to say they stop educating children is a falsehood. Like us they guarantee and education through nine years, what they accomplish in those nine years is more than what we accomplish through 10 years.

We know not all children are created equally, but all can excel past the point of where they are today. Resting comfortably in failure is not an option I wish on the majority of children in this district.

I refuse to believe that well over half of the children in Springboro are incapable of scoring more than 75% on a basic achievement test.

You do not need to go to college to do basic math, but it certainly helps in life.
go to rear of class

Girard, OH

#27840 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
What class in citizenship are you talking about (I was naturally born). From my research I have found:
"The flag was also appropriated for political gain. In 1896, the campaign manager for Republican presidential candidate William McKinley distributed millions of flags for use at McKinley's rallies. The McKinley campaign also distributed buttons bearing the likeness of a flag, as symbols of support for the candidate."
- http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
We also see that using the American Flag for political gain is used frequently.
"Use of American Flag in Banner Image of U.S. Representatives' Campaign Websites by Party
Party Yes No Total % Flag
Republican 73 82 155 47.1
Democrat 74 139 213 34.7
Total 147 221 368 39.9
Data compiled by Smart Politics. "
-http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/ smartpolitics/2010/04/how_do_m embers_of_congress_use.php
Now, flag etiquette states:
"The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard."
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml
I see that the flags are on TOP of the sign. The signs are not attached to the staff or halyard.
Bottom line is this:
"The Flag Code is a codification of customs and rules established for the use of certain civilians and civilian groups. No penalty or punishment is specified in the Flag Code for display of the flag of the United States in a manner other than as suggested. Cases which have construed the former 36 U.S.C. 17521 have concluded that the Flag Code does not proscribe conduct, but is merely declaratory and advisory.22"
-http://www.senate.gov/referen ce/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in a citizenship class.
China

Springboro, OH

#27841 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
No they reward the best students with the best opportunities, to say they stop educating children is a falsehood. Like us they guarantee and education through nine years, what they accomplish in those nine years is more than what we accomplish through 10 years.
We know not all children are created equally, but all can excel past the point of where they are today. Resting comfortably in failure is not an option I wish on the majority of children in this district.
I refuse to believe that well over half of the children in Springboro are incapable of scoring more than 75% on a basic achievement test.
You do not need to go to college to do basic math, but it certainly helps in life.
Excerpt from a University of Michigan report on the Chinese educational system....

"One negative aspect of the Chinese education system is that high stakes testing in order to pass into the next grade results in many students left with no other choice but to drop out of the school system all together."

So having kids drop out of the schools system, essentially not educating kids that can't pass the test, is "guaranteeing" education? No, this is "stopping" their education.
No debate means No choice

Xenia, OH

#27842 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of class wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in a citizenship class.
I understand, I'm just not as easily offended as some. My point is A LOT of other politicians (dem and rep) do the same thing. I don't see your outrage for them.
China

Springboro, OH

#27843 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand, I'm just not as easily offended as some. My point is A LOT of other politicians (dem and rep) do the same thing. I don't see your outrage for them.
If it was one of his/her candidates....you wouldn't hear a peep.
Lerxst

Miamisburg, OH

#27844 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you noticed that as well?
The board bashers go to great lengths to manufacture conflict that does not exist, oppose everything the board proposes, stonewall answers, and provide less than full information when requested.
The one thing the board bashers never seem to do is analyze our district test results.
The state provides over a decades worth of historical data on this subject, yet they never seem to touch it or provide any alternative interpretation as to why PROFICIENT is FAILURE.
Absolutely no one has come forth to defend the granting of the title PROFICIENT to a child who has scored a 34% on an Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
What could they possibly be afraid of in this area?
The question then becomes how to get our esteemed mayor to look at the data and ask the candidates about it. I won't hold my breath.

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