Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31915 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27806 Oct 9, 2013
I note with a degree of irony the number of cars floating around Springboro with stickers promoting the fact that they support teachers and staff.

That is akin to saying I breath air, not hardly an exclusive group, who doesn't support their kid's teachers.

The bumper sticker I like better is the one that Mr. Vaughn and Mr. Bitner have been rolling with from the inception of their campaign

I Support Springboro Students!

Finally a couple of parents who are looking out for the children rather than the interests of the union.

Look for Mr. Malone and Mr. Stuckey to copy this one soon as they decide that just representing the union might leave them vulnerable.

Then again it is hard to teach veteran union dogs new tricks.
Remember in November

Akron, OH

#27807 Oct 10, 2013
Springboro families and taxpaying homeowners can only teach our veteran union school board candidates, Ron Malone,David Stuckey,Charles
Anderson, at the polls on November 5, 2012, that a deal is a deal, and Mr. Malone, it really is time for you to go...
Just Say NO to investing our hard earned school tax dollars, and our VOTES in the old outdated leadership philosophy of Malone's status quo.......

Springboro families and taxpaying homeowners must invest our votes and our school tax dollars in a Vision of Reform!
Only non-union school board candidates,
DAVID BITNER and KOLTON VAUGHN
are already on board with
our current board's winning agenda of
STUDENTS FIRST
RESPONSIBLE BUDGETING!

What's NOT to love about that "SANE AND FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE" leadership philosophy?
No debate means No choice

Dayton, OH

#27808 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
I note with a degree of irony the number of cars floating around Springboro with stickers promoting the fact that they support teachers and staff.
That is akin to saying I breath air, not hardly an exclusive group, who doesn't support their kid's teachers.
The bumper sticker I like better is the one that Mr. Vaughn and Mr. Bitner have been rolling with from the inception of their campaign
I Support Springboro Students!
Finally a couple of parents who are looking out for the children rather than the interests of the union.
Look for Mr. Malone and Mr. Stuckey to copy this one soon as they decide that just representing the union might leave them vulnerable.
Then again it is hard to teach veteran union dogs new tricks.
So saying you support the teachers is "akin to saying I breath air" but saying you support the student's isn't??? Why else would one support the teachers?

And by the looks of the signs Bitner and Vaughn are Parent's representing Parents. Shouldn't that be Parent's representing Children if they are truley children first? Confusing message.

And as for Lamb using the flag. There are no less than 3 pictures of the american flag on the home page of the Bitner Vaughn site (one of them at half mast) and one with the POW flag. No outrage about that? Of course not. Only people who are not liked around here are blasted for raising an American flag. So biast.

Finally I notice their signs state "Parent's of students". So I'm guessing they would be in opposition to current board members who are not "Parent's of students?"
Union Bashing

Dayton, OH

#27809 Oct 10, 2013
What's with the union bashing? It's getting real old.

Unions are and always will be a part of this country. They touch each of our lives from the streets we drive on (and the cars we drive on them), to the concert's we go to, etc..

I would agree that some unions are bad, but there are alot of good ones as well. They are just "an organized association of workers formed to protect and further their rights and interests"

I believe the NRA could be classified as "an organized association of <gun owners> formed to protect and further their rights and interests"

Yet I see noone bashing the NRA.

I guess eveyone here is also against these other OHIO unions and the 1,269,657 people that are in them (SEA isn't included, I guess they didn't make the list):

AFGE - American Federation Of Government Employees

AFM - American Federation of Musicians

AFSCME - American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees

AFT - American Federation of Teachers

AFTRA - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists

ANA - American Nurses Association

APWU - American Postal Workers Union

ATU - Amalgamated Transit Union

BAC - International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craft Workers

BBF - International Brotherhood of Boilermakers

BCTD - Building & Construction Trades Department

BCTGMI - The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union

BLE - Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers

BMWE - Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees

BRS - Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen

BSOIW - International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental, and Reinforcing Iron

CJA - The United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America

CWA - Communication Workers of America

GCIU - Graphics Communication International Union

GMP - Glass, Molders, Pottery, Plastics, & Allied Workers International Union

IAFF - International Association of Fire Fighters

IAM - International Associations of Machinists and Aerospace Workers

IATSE - International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees

IBEW - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers

IBT - International Brotherhood of Teamsters

ILA - International Longshoremen's Association

IUEC - International Union of Elevator Constructors

IUOE - International Union of Operating Engineers

IUPAT - The International Union of Painters and Allied Trades Home

LIUNA - Laborers International Union of North America

MTTD - MARITIME TRADES DEPT AFL-CIO

NALC - National Association of Letter Carriers

NAPFE - National Alliance of Postal and Federal Employees

NATCA - National Air Traffic Controllers Association

NEA - National Education Association

NFFE - National Federation of Federal Employees

NIW - Industrial Workers of the World

NPMHU - National Postal Mail Handlers Union

NTEU - National Treasury Employees Union

OPCMIA - Operative Plasterers' and Cement Masons' International Association

OPEIU - Office and Professional Employees International Union

PPF/UA - Plumbers and Pipe Fitters Union

RLCA - National Rural Letters Carrier's Association

RWAW - United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers

SEIU - Service Employees International Union

SMW - Sheet Metal Workers International Association

SPFPA - International Union, Security, Police and Fire Professionals of America

TCU - Transportation Communications International Union

TWU - Transit Workers Union

UAW - United Auto Workers

UE - United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America

UFCW - United Food and Commercial Workers

UGSOA - United Government Security Officers of America

UMW - Union Miners Workers Of America

USW - United Steel Workers

UTU - United Transportation Union

(from http://www.unions.org )
Lerxst

Miamisburg, OH

#27810 Oct 10, 2013
You call that a debate wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I believe the moderator is the only person who is able to ask questions during a debate. I believe we all know what kind of questions the good old boys will be asked. Union supported people sitting down to have a "debate" with other union supported people, sounds like everything will be on the up and up, LOL!!!
If this is the case then we can expect the MAS to not hear one bit about all the numbers that Doug has been posting. Which begs the question, where does the mayor get his list of questions from?
No show

Toledo, OH

#27811 Oct 10, 2013
You call that a debate wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I believe the moderator is the only person who is able to ask questions during a debate. I believe we all know what kind of questions the good old boys will be asked. Union supported people sitting down to have a "debate" with other union supported people, sounds like everything will be on the up and up, LOL!!!
Thats a copout, have you not heard candidates formulate questions directed towards their opponents during a debate before? Why doesn't B/V call a debate and invite MSA? At least if MSA is a no show we call heard these two candidates speak.
No debate means No choice

Dayton, OH

#27812 Oct 10, 2013
You call that a debate wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I believe the moderator is the only person who is able to ask questions during a debate. I believe we all know what kind of questions the good old boys will be asked. Union supported people sitting down to have a "debate" with other union supported people, sounds like everything will be on the up and up, LOL!!!
Have you ever seen a debate? I have seen several candidates throw a question at their opponent. If a question is asked the candidate can answer the question, tie it to one he wants to answer and throw it by ending with "I'd like to know how my opponent feels about that". It's a key debating tactic.

I guess if you can't stand the heat...
blinded by the light

Cleveland, OH

#27813 Oct 10, 2013
Union Bashing wrote:
I believe the NRA could be classified as "an organized association of <gun owners> formed to protect and further their rights and interests"
Yet I see noone bashing the NRA.
No one bashes the NRA? You have got to be kidding they are among the favorite targets for bashing by the media and liberals day in and day out.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27814 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
So saying you support the teachers is "akin to saying I breath air" but saying you support the student's isn't??? Why else would one support the teachers?
And by the looks of the signs Bitner and Vaughn are Parent's representing Parents. Shouldn't that be Parent's representing Children if they are truley children first? Confusing message.
And as for Lamb using the flag. There are no less than 3 pictures of the american flag on the home page of the Bitner Vaughn site (one of them at half mast) and one with the POW flag. No outrage about that? Of course not. Only people who are not liked around here are blasted for raising an American flag. So biast.
Finally I notice their signs state "Parent's of students". So I'm guessing they would be in opposition to current board members who are not "Parent's of students?"


It would certainly be creepy if you are advocating elected leaders bypass parents and go directly to the children as their wards of state. That sounds like a Ron Malone platform plank I would strenuously disagree with in total.

Last I checked, parents are the legal guardians of their children, as such parents are in the best position to decide what is best and right for their child.

Giving a voice to parents with children in our district certainly cannot be a bad thing?

The current board contains three people with children in the district schools. Since all are retiring, who is left to represent actual parents with children in the district?

After all did the certain segments of the community not attempt to crush Mr. Petroni for not having his children in the district classrooms?

Is this just a case of union situational ethics?

I am all for flying the flag proudly. Free elections are America's backbone, I agree whole heartedly with you on that point.

And let us not forget those who gave all and did not come back, it is the least we can do.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27815 Oct 10, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
If this is the case then we can expect the MAS to not hear one bit about all the numbers that Doug has been posting. Which begs the question, where does the mayor get his list of questions from?
Have you noticed that as well?

The board bashers go to great lengths to manufacture conflict that does not exist, oppose everything the board proposes, stonewall answers, and provide less than full information when requested.

The one thing the board bashers never seem to do is analyze our district test results.

The state provides over a decades worth of historical data on this subject, yet they never seem to touch it or provide any alternative interpretation as to why PROFICIENT is FAILURE.

Absolutely no one has come forth to defend the granting of the title PROFICIENT to a child who has scored a 34% on an Ohio Achievement Assessment test.

What could they possibly be afraid of in this area?
Union Bashing

Dayton, OH

#27816 Oct 10, 2013
blinded by the light wrote:
<quoted text>
No one bashes the NRA? You have got to be kidding they are among the favorite targets for bashing by the media and liberals day in and day out.
I was reffering to those here bashing the SEA not bashing the NRA.
go to rear of the class

Cleveland, OH

#27817 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
So saying you support the teachers is "akin to saying I breath air" but saying you support the student's isn't??? Why else would one support the teachers?
And by the looks of the signs Bitner and Vaughn are Parent's representing Parents. Shouldn't that be Parent's representing Children if they are truley children first? Confusing message.
And as for Lamb using the flag. There are no less than 3 pictures of the american flag on the home page of the Bitner Vaughn site (one of them at half mast) and one with the POW flag. No outrage about that? Of course not. Only people who are not liked around here are blasted for raising an American flag. So biast.
Finally I notice their signs state "Parent's of students". So I'm guessing they would be in opposition to current board members who are not "Parent's of students?"
1) The reason communities support teachers is because teachers teach CHILDREN who of course collectively represent this nation's future.

2) Quite obviously you're all about placing a unique slant on matters such as this. The Bitner / Vaughn campaign has implemented multiple slogans including "Students First", "Parents Representing Parents" and "Responsible Budgeting".

3) Attn: Dale Lamb
The use of PICTURES of American flags is one thing. The misuse of ACTUAL American flags is another thing altogether.

4) "Biased" is the word you were in search of, not "biast".

5) The last point you attempt to make is senseless. However, I can tell you this: Unlike you, they have a strong grasp of the correct use in English punctuation in that the Bitner / Vaughn website doesn't misuse apostropes in the words... "Student's" and "Parent's".
No debate means No choice

Dayton, OH

#27818 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you noticed that as well?
The board bashers go to great lengths to manufacture conflict that does not exist, oppose everything the board proposes, stonewall answers, and provide less than full information when requested.
The one thing the board bashers never seem to do is analyze our district test results.
The state provides over a decades worth of historical data on this subject, yet they never seem to touch it or provide any alternative interpretation as to why PROFICIENT is FAILURE.
Absolutely no one has come forth to defend the granting of the title PROFICIENT to a child who has scored a 34% on an Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
What could they possibly be afraid of in this area?
Once again with the "P" word. What do other districts do by comparison? Is the test graded on a curve? What were the numbers like a decade ago? I would attest that compared to Japan our children are not "PROFICIENT".

According to the PISA the USA ranks as follows:

Maths: 30 out of 65
Sciences: 23 out of 65
Reading: 17 out of 65.

Guess who is 1st in all 3 China (a communist country, I believe).

Granted, their one child policy helps them in this so are you suggesting that in order to become "proficient" we bring in the one child policy and adopt communism?

http://www.english-online.at/news-articles/ed...
No debate means No choice

Dayton, OH

#27819 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of the class wrote:
<quoted text>
1) The reason communities support teachers is because teachers teach CHILDREN who of course collectively represent this nation's future.
2) Quite obviously you're all about placing a unique slant on matters such as this. The Bitner / Vaughn campaign has implemented multiple slogans including "Students First", "Parents Representing Parents" and "Responsible Budgeting".
3) Attn: Dale Lamb
The use of PICTURES of American flags is one thing. The misuse of ACTUAL American flags is another thing altogether.
4) "Biased" is the word you were in search of, not "biast".
5) The last point you attempt to make is senseless. However, I can tell you this: Unlike you, they have a strong grasp of the correct use in English punctuation in that the Bitner / Vaughn website doesn't misuse apostropes in the words... "Student's" and "Parent's".
I guess I'm just proof of how "PROFICIENT" the US education system is. Again with the English lessons, are you a teacher? Oh wait, you'd have to join a union...sorry.

Even through my misuse of "proper" English you still were able to get my point. "LOL"
No debate means No choice

Dayton, OH

#27820 Oct 10, 2013
go to rear of the class wrote:
<quoted text>
1) The reason communities support teachers is because teachers teach CHILDREN who of course collectively represent this nation's future.
2) Quite obviously you're all about placing a unique slant on matters such as this. The Bitner / Vaughn campaign has implemented multiple slogans including "Students First", "Parents Representing Parents" and "Responsible Budgeting".
3) Attn: Dale Lamb
The use of PICTURES of American flags is one thing. The misuse of ACTUAL American flags is another thing altogether.
4) "Biased" is the word you were in search of, not "biast".
5) The last point you attempt to make is senseless. However, I can tell you this: Unlike you, they have a strong grasp of the correct use in English punctuation in that the Bitner / Vaughn website doesn't misuse apostropes in the words... "Student's" and "Parent's".
And exactly how is the flag being "misused".

Also, you spelled apostrophes wrong!
partisan

Xenia, OH

#27821 Oct 10, 2013
interesting that wherever I see those black signs of Malone's, the property owners are big union fans...very interesting...what was that about the kids ? Unless one has been on the planet Mars, it's a given if the union people take control of the school board, we will immediately see a levy put on the ballot !
truth to power

Cleveland, OH

#27822 Oct 10, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>

The one thing the board bashers never seem to do is analyze our district test results.

Absolutely no one has come forth to defend the granting of the title PROFICIENT to a child who has scored a 34% on an Ohio Achievement Assessment test.

What could they possibly be afraid of in this area?
Planet of the Apes. 1968. The final scene...
Charlton Heston & Linda Harrison are making an escape on horseback, striking out alone on a sandy, desolate beach. Heston glaces up from the beach to notice something odd above the shoreline over to his left. In a mere split second, Heston realizes his own, as well as all of humanity's destiny.

On a global scale, STUBBORNNESS AND GREED are indirectly responsible for the scourges of war, and the poverty, pestilence and disease outbreaks that often go with them.

For the past two to three generations, American educators have been riding in tandem along the beach. In solidarity, they refuse to move their eyes from the tail end of the horse directly in front of them.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27823 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again with the "P" word. What do other districts do by comparison? Is the test graded on a curve? What were the numbers like a decade ago? I would attest that compared to Japan our children are not "PROFICIENT".
According to the PISA the USA ranks as follows:
Maths: 30 out of 65
Sciences: 23 out of 65
Reading: 17 out of 65.
Guess who is 1st in all 3 China (a communist country, I believe).
Granted, their one child policy helps them in this so are you suggesting that in order to become "proficient" we bring in the one child policy and adopt communism?
http://www.english-online.at/news-articles/ed...
The people of Springboro have absolutely zero control over what goes on in any district besides our own. The Springboro School District is positively the only district over which we can maintain any semblance of control over our destiny.

How other districts wish to handle these issues is totally and entirely up to them, the state of Ohio minimum standards, and the federal government's minimum standards.

The Chinese utilize a system of competitive education to garner the results they have achieved. More or less a free market competition that rewards those who perform best. A race to the top with winners and losers, but of one thing you may rest assured, they do not lower the bar to make everyone a "winner".

The people of Springboro know the value of education and where it can and cannot take a child.

The level of expectations in this district is much higher than the state mandated "PROFICIENT".

I dare say, most parents around Springboro are not doing cartwheels in the front yard when little Jimmy or Susie brings home a test with only 34%- 56% correct.

We can and must do better for the sake of our children.

As they say, the longest journey begins with the first step. In Springboro it is acknowledging that we have been led in the pursuit of a false standard of excellence.

We can ill afford to year after year cede precious time and knowledge to others around the world.

For the sake of our children's future we must reject the course of study that demands so little of all of us and strive for true achievement across the board for all children in Springboro.
thanks mr obvious

Cleveland, OH

#27824 Oct 10, 2013
partisan wrote:
interesting that wherever I see those black signs of Malone's, the property owners are big union fans...very interesting...what was that about the kids ? Unless one has been on the planet Mars, it's a given if the union people take control of the school board, we will immediately see a levy put on the ballot !
Wow!!
Really ?!?
Ya think ?!?
o-;
go to rear of class

Cleveland, OH

#27825 Oct 10, 2013
No debate means No choice wrote:
<quoted text>
And exactly how is the flag being "misused".
Also, you spelled apostrophes wrong!
If you don't understand the concept of ethical missuse of an American flag for purpose of personal political gain, you should seriously consider enrolling in citizenship class.

Thank you for the spelling correction. I see it took you an extra three minutes to fish out that one. Today's modern spell-check programs are quite nifty and handy, aren't they?

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