Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,520

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Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27397 Sep 14, 2013
The question we should be asking is where does Mr. Malone fall on the issue of spending a year studying such a poorly written book?

What does Dave Stuckey have to say about the quality of the text being presented and how much effort is to be expended studying the tome?

Mr. Anderson may wish to explain to us the benefits of the anti-capitalistic tenor of many anecdotes within its chapters. After all, did not Mr. Anderson benefit from the same system the Mr. Zinn is trashing? Why would Mr. Anderson wish to deny our children the same opportunities he has enjoyed?
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27398 Sep 15, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is saying anything like that and you would be well versed in this subject if you had read Mr. Zinn's pop anthology of American history presented through his left wing marxist eye.
While you are free to reject or not entertain this book because it is poorly written, provides no historical or cultural context for its anecdotes, or is too simplistic in its assessments, a student is obliged to waste valuable time and energy pouring through this mess.
No one is making the claim that America is perfect, but it seems to me that an awful lot of people in this world have risked life and limb to reach our shores in the past and continue to do so yet today.
Do all of these people know something our children do not?
If you want a view of utopia, try the worker's paradise that is North Korea.
If you wish to speak of atrocities, try imagine yourself being captured by the Mayans during one of their wars of conquest. After they took your land by force, they took all of your possessions, then they granted you the honor of being a human sacrifice to their god.
They were not alone in their, by today's standards, barbarity. The Incas and the Aztecs were apparently not that much fun to be subjugated by either.
If you want to get into choices, ask a Polish Jew in 1942 whether they would like to go to an internment camp in Utah or Auschwitz? What happened to the Japanese was wrong by anyone in America's standards today, but was it on the same level as what occurred in occupied Europe under the Nazis?
How about the protests by the kulaks in the Ukraine in the 1930's to forced collectivization? The Soviet response was a systematic starvation that cost the lives of 7,000,000 or so Ukrainian farmers and families. Needless to say those who survived the government induced famine, deportations, or executions, soon knuckled under
Putting world and local events in some kind of historical context makes most of our issues seem petty by comparison. Perhaps not to the individual suffering the indignity, but as a percentage of the whole.
America may not be perfect, but she is far from the wreck Mr. Zinn purports to declaim.
Forcing our brightest children in an A/P class to waste time studying 700 endless pages of anti-Americanism for a year is asking too much.
No one is saying anything like that? Do you ready ANYTHING on this post execpt views you can argue with?
Homework posted "I would bet that 100% of these kids have no slavery in their background but, more likely have persecution in their heritage but are left to feel guilty for slavery because their skin is white." and "I'll tell you the KKK has nothing on the American public education system.". You are so partison and one sided in your attacks that you won't go after them will you?

For you to say that no one is saying that shows how much you read and pay attention here.

I appreciate all the armed (and unarmed) forces do in this country. I have worked as a civilian in support of our forces (and continue to support them). My family has several members that have served. I'm guessing you think Schweikart's books are completely factual. Once again the far left (Zinn) is just as wrong as the far right (Schweikart). Kind of like evolution vs creation. Now why is only one of those "controversial issues" acceptable?
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27399 Sep 15, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
The question we should be asking is where does Mr. Malone fall on the issue of spending a year studying such a poorly written book?
What does Dave Stuckey have to say about the quality of the text being presented and how much effort is to be expended studying the tome?
Mr. Anderson may wish to explain to us the benefits of the anti-capitalistic tenor of many anecdotes within its chapters. After all, did not Mr. Anderson benefit from the same system the Mr. Zinn is trashing? Why would Mr. Anderson wish to deny our children the same opportunities he has enjoyed?
Why isn't any one asking Mr. Rubio why he is trashing the same system he benefited from? Actually most politions used goverment student loans to get through college and are now bashing the "big government programs" that helped them get where they are. Looks like MSA is just following in the footsteps of most Republicans.

Again it would behove many if people would start talking about who TO vote for instead of who NOT to vote for. Unless talking about the negative has more substance than anthing that can be said positively about the alternatives. Makes it sound like MSA are the only 3 running.(which is why they will win)
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27400 Sep 15, 2013
(politicians,not politions) Still on my first cup of coffee :)
Lerxst

Girard, OH

#27401 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Again it would behove many if people would start talking about who TO vote for instead of who NOT to vote for. Unless talking about the negative has more substance than anthing that can be said positively about the alternatives. Makes it sound like MSA are the only 3 running.(which is why they will win)
Tell that to Malone, Stuckey, Anderson supporters here. I have yet to hear them articulate their positions on any issue. No one hear that I can recall has articulated it. Their web site has nothing related to their stances on the issues. Thus far, about the only reason I am asked to vote for them is more popularity contest than anything. They want my vote? Tell me why I should vote for them. Simply saying "we are for the children" is not good enough. Perhaps you can articulate it.

What I have seen in this forum are plenty of reasons to vote for the current board and keep moving on with the successes they have brought us.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27402 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is saying anything like that? Do you ready ANYTHING on this post execpt views you can argue with?
Homework posted "I would bet that 100% of these kids have no slavery in their background but, more likely have persecution in their heritage but are left to feel guilty for slavery because their skin is white." and "I'll tell you the KKK has nothing on the American public education system.". You are so partison and one sided in your attacks that you won't go after them will you?
For you to say that no one is saying that shows how much you read and pay attention here.
I appreciate all the armed (and unarmed) forces do in this country. I have worked as a civilian in support of our forces (and continue to support them). My family has several members that have served. I'm guessing you think Schweikart's books are completely factual. Once again the far left (Zinn) is just as wrong as the far right (Schweikart). Kind of like evolution vs creation. Now why is only one of those "controversial issues" acceptable?
Perhaps you should take your own advice and read more and cherry pick less. This controversial issues is a phony canard that is being played to invoke a subtle, yet complete, censorship of anything you disagree with in written or spoken form.

Please tell the audience what exactly is to be gained by silencing different viewpoints?

What you preach is censorship.

Not having read Mr. Schweikart's books, I have no opinion on what they contain or do not contain. I have read Mr. Zinn's book and it is not worthy of the time expended upon its study.

Mr. Zinn's book could best be summarized as a collection of topix posts, accepted at full face value as the truth, and representative of life in Springboro. If we were to publish such a text would that legitimize everyone's opinion and observations as history?

The fact that Mr. Malone continues to display an intellectual dishonesty in this arena comes as no surprise to those who have enjoyed his maneuverings in the past.

And Mr. Stuckey, as a former teacher in the same department, I wonder how many pages he managed to plow through of Mr. Zinn's magnificent work?

It would be worthwhile to hear these gentlemen's critique of the benefit to children studying "pop" history.
Stay Focused

Akron, OH

#27403 Sep 15, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to Malone, Stuckey, Anderson supporters here. I have yet to hear them articulate their positions on any issue. No one hear that I can recall has articulated it. Their web site has nothing related to their stances on the issues. Thus far, about the only reason I am asked to vote for them is more popularity contest than anything. They want my vote? Tell me why I should vote for them. Simply saying "we are for the children" is not good enough. Perhaps you can articulate it.
What I have seen in this forum are plenty of reasons to vote for the current board and keep moving on with the successes they have brought us.
Thank You! Let's keep spreading the great news of good things that are happening in our schools and community! Keep moving in the direction of our current board's leadership that is proven to have substance over the insanely popular symbolism of the camapign to re-instate Ron Malone's past leadership of failed practices.

"The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it."
(Norman Schwarzkoff)
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27404 Sep 15, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to Malone, Stuckey, Anderson supporters here. I have yet to hear them articulate their positions on any issue. No one hear that I can recall has articulated it. Their web site has nothing related to their stances on the issues. Thus far, about the only reason I am asked to vote for them is more popularity contest than anything. They want my vote? Tell me why I should vote for them. Simply saying "we are for the children" is not good enough. Perhaps you can articulate it.
What I have seen in this forum are plenty of reasons to vote for the current board and keep moving on with the successes they have brought us.
Vote for the current board? Do you know that 2 of the 3 who are up are not running? How can you vote for people who are not running?
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27405 Sep 15, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should take your own advice and read more and cherry pick less. This controversial issues is a phony canard that is being played to invoke a subtle, yet complete, censorship of anything you disagree with in written or spoken form.
Please tell the audience what exactly is to be gained by silencing different viewpoints?
What you preach is censorship.
Not having read Mr. Schweikart's books, I have no opinion on what they contain or do not contain. I have read Mr. Zinn's book and it is not worthy of the time expended upon its study.
Mr. Zinn's book could best be summarized as a collection of topix posts, accepted at full face value as the truth, and representative of life in Springboro. If we were to publish such a text would that legitimize everyone's opinion and observations as history?
The fact that Mr. Malone continues to display an intellectual dishonesty in this arena comes as no surprise to those who have enjoyed his maneuverings in the past.
And Mr. Stuckey, as a former teacher in the same department, I wonder how many pages he managed to plow through of Mr. Zinn's magnificent work?
It would be worthwhile to hear these gentlemen's critique of the benefit to children studying "pop" history.
What's to be gained by silencing Zinn's viewpoint? You actually are now contradicting yourself in your own posts.

Plus you still have no names of who TO vote for.

As far as what you called a "phony canard" ask the people in Dover about how "phony" that canard is.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27406 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
What's to be gained by silencing Zinn's viewpoint? You actually are now contradicting yourself in your own posts.
Plus you still have no names of who TO vote for.
As far as what you called a "phony canard" ask the people in Dover about how "phony" that canard is.
You complain everyone else is too right wing, or incorrect for inclusion into your small coterie of accepted sources. You dear friend is the one denying the existence of the alternative viewpoint.

My opinion of Mr. Zinn's book is the same as always, it is an implicitly simplistic load of horse dung. There are vastly better books available that provide more in depth and culturally relevant material than the puerile versions Mr. Zinn presents for pop culture consumption.

I am entirely for an honest debate of the history of this nation, good, bad, or indifferent. I merely ask that the source material being utilized for discussion be worthy of our efforts.

But once again what does Mr. Malone think of this if anything since it seems to consume your mind greatly?

Ask the well read Mr. Stuckey which chapters he particularly enjoyed and why?

Somehow the left never asks those they thrust into the vanguard to respond to such nonsense.

Where is Mr. Malone, Mr Stuckey, and Mr Anderson on this topic?

For real education or phony, fun, MTV depth education?
Lerxst

Girard, OH

#27407 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Vote for the current board? Do you know that 2 of the 3 who are up are not running? How can you vote for people who are not running?
Dear Lord...I see my point went right over your head.
Question Everything

Akron, OH

#27408 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Vote for the current board? Do you know that 2 of the 3 who are up are not running? How can you vote for people who are not running?
Inquiring minds would ask Ron Malone, David Stuckey, and Charles Anderson "why are you running a school board campaign challenging our current school board president, who is not even running for re-election? How can school board candidate, Ron Malone, who is for sure insanely popular with the SEA/union activists, run a threesome campaign to "restore Sanity to the Board of Education"
solely on his name recognition of insane popularity? Where's the professional leadership in that direction AWAY from sustainability of our children's first budget that is PROVEN sucessful?

How silly, for SURE, are you to think the Right to Vote is a Requirement to Vote for the WRONG candidates! It's just not RIGHT for our schools and community to vote for Ron Malone, David Stuckey, and Charles Anderson.... NO matter how popular doing the wrong thing may be with the Springboro Education Association.
For real

Springboro, OH

#27409 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>
NO SLAVERY IN THEIR BACKGROUND?? You've got to be joking. My great-great grandfather owned slaves. Most people (if you go back far enough) have slavery in their past one side or the other.
And for you to say the American Education System has nothing on the KKK? Please let us know which house they burned a cross in the lawn on?
It's no wonder both sides can't have a civil discussion with such PARTISAN speech going on here. The whole 10 people who frequent this site.
To say the in this history of the United States we have never done ANYTHING wrong is close-minded and innacurate. How many people realize that our founding fathers did NOT give women the right to vote?
Wow, If I were you I would feel bad about myself and pay homage to those that I wronged. My family freed slaves and got imprisoned for it, you owe me and any slaves so, do you own a home? I will double your taxes now so we can develop a park for us and anyone of color gets your retirement accounts. There, it is fixed now, happy? I think this is called transference, where you have done things wrong so now you want everyone to be blamed and pay for reparations.

Your comments are just like a liberal where you make up stuff as you go. BTW are you the author of Fact site you post about?. I think I'll develop my own Fact web site now. Thanks for the idea.
Believing

Akron, OH

#27410 Sep 15, 2013
I am a risk taker. I will let myself believe.

Excellence is not an act, but a habit.
- Aristotle

Expect More, Achieve More!
Excellence is not a banner on the wall or a quick headline in the news. It is what we do every day. Our core business is excellence in teaching, learning and leading. We strive to be a little better today than we were yesterday. That excellence is not an act. It is a habit, and it's a goal that we embrace every day throughtout our district.- Springboro Schools

(This message is approved by Springboro Families and Taxpaying Homeowners who fully support the direction in which our current school board representatives are leading our children's 21st Century quality classroom education.)
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27411 Sep 15, 2013
For real wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, If I were you I would feel bad about myself and pay homage to those that I wronged. My family freed slaves and got imprisoned for it, you owe me and any slaves so, do you own a home? I will double your taxes now so we can develop a park for us and anyone of color gets your retirement accounts. There, it is fixed now, happy? I think this is called transference, where you have done things wrong so now you want everyone to be blamed and pay for reparations.
Your comments are just like a liberal where you make up stuff as you go. BTW are you the author of Fact site you post about?. I think I'll develop my own Fact web site now. Thanks for the idea.
Never heard of Factcheck.org ? Guess you wouldn't have if FACTS are not important to you. Research must not be your strong suit. It was started in 2003.
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27412 Sep 15, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
You complain everyone else is too right wing, or incorrect for inclusion into your small coterie of accepted sources. You dear friend is the one denying the existence of the alternative viewpoint.
My opinion of Mr. Zinn's book is the same as always, it is an implicitly simplistic load of horse dung. There are vastly better books available that provide more in depth and culturally relevant material than the puerile versions Mr. Zinn presents for pop culture consumption.
I am entirely for an honest debate of the history of this nation, good, bad, or indifferent. I merely ask that the source material being utilized for discussion be worthy of our efforts.
But once again what does Mr. Malone think of this if anything since it seems to consume your mind greatly?
Ask the well read Mr. Stuckey which chapters he particularly enjoyed and why?
Somehow the left never asks those they thrust into the vanguard to respond to such nonsense.
Where is Mr. Malone, Mr Stuckey, and Mr Anderson on this topic?
For real education or phony, fun, MTV depth education?
How many times have you questioned Rigano, Petroni or Khols? Did they answer?

Once again, no alternate candidate names. Remember this when you're wondering why MSA wins in November.
truth to power

Girard, OH

#27413 Sep 15, 2013
Do your homework wrote:
<quoted text>

Once again, no alternate candidate names. Remember this when you're wondering why MSA wins in November.
Obviously "Do your homework" has failed miserably at doing his OWN homework.
Brain Drain

Akron, OH

#27414 Sep 15, 2013
truth to power wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously "Do your homework" has failed miserably at doing his OWN homework.
Probably blinded by overdose of Dr. Ron Malone's tunnel vision prescriptions of high school program studies, overstuffed with sugary fun (but educationally lacking) in substance for the future.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#27415 Sep 15, 2013
Bears win ! Bears Win !
Do your homework

Maineville, OH

#27416 Sep 15, 2013
truth to power wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously "Do your homework" has failed miserably at doing his OWN homework.
Just seeing if anyone here has been doing THEIR homework. By the lack of names it's pretty obvious. Keep on mentioning MSA without speaking alternative candidates and you'll see who wins (by name recongition alone) in November. You are all handing them victory.

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