Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Dayton Daily News

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motorvoter

Bloomington, IN

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#27111
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally believe it is better suited to the social studies classes and the study of other cultures.
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.

But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Ask Ron Malone

Piqua, OH

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#27112
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
Here's a great article that speaks to the idiocy of "teaching the controversy" - which, as you say, Kelly Kohls apparently refers to as "discussion."
www.teachersdomain.org/assets/wgbh/evol07/evo...
I do realize that you folks might not respect the source, as Dr. Eugenie Scott is a real scientist with a real PhD who has dedicated her life to science education.
Not at all like your Ricki Pepin, who wants to charge you $30 for you to learn about her magic diet, which apparently will cure 80% of all diseases.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
--Charles Darwin--

Time to change the subject from Ricki Pepin, Kelly Kohls, and real scientists. Time to ask Ron Malone WHY he is running for school board, now that his "platform of challenging Kelly Kohls" has dropped him to the bottom of the voter's list?

Learning to accept and adapt to change is the skill of a lifetime!
Should we allow Mr. Malone, who has 40 years PAST experience as a professional educator (in his own time) to keep our kids 21st centrury education "left behind" his unchanging belief that we should re-instate union first business as usual?
Ask Ron Malone

Piqua, OH

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#27113
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.
But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Ask Ron Malone why he is running to gain control of the board?
That's what we're talking about and we all know that this obsession you have with right-wing agendas is nothing more than Malone's agenda of gathering the SEA under his wing to re-emphasis the value of the left-wing agenda of pro-levy lovers.

Ask Ron Malone why he bullied the Mom of his students, relentlessly spreading lies about this Springboro parent, with no sensitivity to the "feelings" of his students whose Mom he is falsely accusing of trying to push him out of his Job?
Ask Ron Malone why he exercised his duties as "bully-in-chief school officer" while neglecting to implement measures to individual student's academic potential?
Doug Wiedeman

Springfield, OH

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#27114
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.
But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Au contraire, mon ami, it was you who made it into a scientific question and only a scientific question.

We should not be in the business of telling our children that all science is sacrosanct and there is positively no other option but the one presented in this textbook. As we all know the art of science is a constantly evolving work that builds daily upon the works of millions around the planet. Most grown adults who have some passing knowledge of these issues also know that what was once accepted fact can change in a heartbeat as someone else comes up with better, more definitive proof in another direction.

I like the mystery of science and all that it has proven or figured out about life and the universe, but it does not answer all questions definitively. I do not suppose it ever will, but I will still keep my paying attention.
Ask Ron Malone

Piqua, OH

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#27115
Sep 2, 2013
 

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It's no use saying "We are doing our best."
You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
-Winston Churchill

Question: Mr. Malone, why did you not do what was necessary as a professional educator during the past 13 years; instead of evolving into being a best princiP-A-L like your kids wanted you to be?

Question: Aren't REAL EDUCATORS supposed to teach others what they NEED to succeed; instead of wanting themselves to succeed as "insanely popular" with others? Of what value to our kids' future success is that leadership of Principal Ron's?
motorvoter

Mason, OH

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#27116
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Most grown adults who have some passing knowledge of these issues also know that what was once accepted fact can change in a heartbeat as someone else comes up with better, more definitive proof in another direction.
Exactly! Come up with proof of creationism or intelligent design (really the same thing) and I will agree that such ideas should be taught to children. The problem is, just like astrologists and Muslim creationists, you have no evidence. Everything we know from the fossil record, DNA, geological record, etc. confirms evolutionary theory.
motorvoter

Mason, OH

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#27117
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I like the mystery of science and all that it has proven or figured out about life and the universe, but it does not answer all questions definitively. I do not suppose it ever will, but I will still keep my paying attention.
Knock yourself out. Read up all you want on the powers of pyramids and crystal and astrology, and Bigfoot sightings, and alternative medicine like homeopathy, and whatever else is not supported by science, given the lack of evidence.

Let's just keep this out of school, OK? Particularly when you're trying to push the Abrahamic god.
Question the Principles

Piqua, OH

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#27118
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Susan Engel, a senior lecturer in psychology and director of the teaching program at Williams College and the author of Red Flags or Red Herrings? Predicting Who Your Child Willl Become, frames our challenge this: There are two basic problems with education in America...
Problem One: too many kids in America go to schools that don't even begin to offer them the hope of getting to average.
Our second problem, explains Engel, is just as big, if not bigger. It's that "even the nice schools" aren't good enough. These schools have decent facilities, adequate class sizes, a good number of teachers who like their job and/or like kids, and a majority of students who can read, who can pass standarized state tests. These schools are often okay, but not really good.
Too many teachers are not that well educated, not that on fire to be teachers, and not that challenged within the system to be terrific. Such schools often lack any coherent or compelling idea about what a good education consists of, what high schools should emphasize, how to be really vibrant learning communities.
These 'okay' schools may send kids like yours and mine on a good path -- good colleges, good job options--but even in these schools, too many kids are not living up to their intellectual or personal potential. They're not engaged, and not headed to become the inventors, entrepreneurs, and stewards of the Earth that we're going to need.

...Springboro taxpayers are questioning if the Ron Malone threesome, running on the agenda of an insanely popular former SHS principal, and re-instating status quo business as usual, is the ticket that will give us the best return on our investment of school tax dollars in our children's future?

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

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#27119
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Question the Principles wrote:
...Springboro taxpayers are questioning if the Ron Malone threesome, running on the agenda of an insanely popular former SHS principal, and re-instating status quo business as usual, is the ticket that will give us the best return on our investment of school tax dollars in our children's future?
I like Petroni, assuming that he's the one who promotes financial responsibility and not all that crazy creationism which keeps creeping into the agenda. But I fail to see how a School Board can function without the respect of the parents and the students?

Dr. Malone isn't a Miley Cyrus popularity hound, he's an experienced educator with the respect of his community. In order to affect real change you cannot simply appeal to your base, you need to work with the community in order to find out what works for everyone who is affected by the changes.

Failing to balance financial responsibility with community support only creates further division and makes changes impossible in any direction.
Doug Wiedeman

Springfield, OH

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#27120
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
Knock yourself out. Read up all you want on the powers of pyramids and crystal and astrology, and Bigfoot sightings, and alternative medicine like homeopathy, and whatever else is not supported by science, given the lack of evidence.
Let's just keep this out of school, OK? Particularly when you're trying to push the Abrahamic god.
Only you seem obsessed with what I may casually note as oddball absurdities, but that is your business.

As I recall, I mentioned not a word of any religious sect. The mere fact that you felt compelled to do so is you showing your bias in a most sneering fashion. Interjecting religion into unrelated conversations for the sake of sensationalism loses you the point of the debate.

Closing one's mind to others belief systems puts one at a distinct disadvantage when attempting to exist in a multicultural environment. Why should our children be constricted from enjoying the benefits of getting to know other cultures and the belief systems that fashioned them?

Just because you do not approve does not mean there is no relevance in understanding those who are different from ourselves.
Doug Wiedeman

Springfield, OH

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#27121
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. Malone isn't a Miley Cyrus popularity hound, he's an experienced educator with the respect of his community.
That I would not bet upon, the first part that is. I recall him basking in the glow of a manufactured love fest when the board decided he could better serve the district in the Central Office. Given his years of experience and obvious influence with the education community in Springboro it seemed a natural fit for Mr. Malone to impact 5600 young lives as opposed to just 1500.

Mr. Malone appeared on television as a man overwhelmed by the support and relished his appearance the following day on the Fox Morning show, I believe it was. All of this would seem quite touching if we did not later discover he was the one organizing his own show of support.

But every deed has a silver lining and this one has a particularly large one. Had not Mr. Malone organized his own Save Our Principal rally he might have wound up with a key job in the school district.

Why would that be bad you may ask?

Seems as though Mr. Malone was deep sixing critical reports of his tenure and leadership at the high school. Audits that were bought and paid for as part of the High Schools That Work program were finding their way to Mr. Malone's office and being submerged deep inside file cabinets. What was in those documents that Mr. Malone did not want to share with the public or even see the light of day?

Page 10

From the 2012 report by the Warren County Educational Service Center.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HS ...

"SHS still offers general level classes (Algebra 1A and !B, physical science, US HIstory, and World History) Thus, not all students experience a college preparatory curriculum. Documents provided to the TAV Team indicate that contrary to the High Schools That Work (HSTW) philosophy, SHS believes that offering low level courses is in the best interest of students. THIS BELIEF, however, WAS NOT SUBSTANTIATED BY RESEARCH OR DATA."

Dumbing down the curriculum is apparently not in the best interest of the student.

Nothing substantiates this belief in either research or data.

Yet, that was the path Mr. Malone chose for your children.

These are not my conclusions, but the conclusions of professional educators at the Warren County Educational Service Center hired by the school district to audit our program of studies before this board ever came to be.

When asked to recommend three new classes in January 2011, Mr. Malone came up with one forced on him by the board to flesh out our math program, A/P Statistics. The other two were a guitar class to teach kids how to play the guitar and a current events class that allowed children to read the newspaper and talk about what was going on in the area. The board, to its credit sank, the guitar class. The board, to its discredit, allowed the current events class.

I imagine we know which way the curriculum will roll if Mr. Malone has his way.

Good bye rigor, hello fun fun stuff.
Doug Wiedeman

Springfield, OH

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#27122
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
. Everything we know from the fossil record, DNA, geological record, etc. confirms evolutionary theory.
You would be incorrect in your assertion, there remain a myriad of holes within the proposed "theory" that you so eloquently claim explains everything. Evolution explains some things, but not all.

Ask any true scientist if the evolutionary record, as it exists today, will remain unchanged in the future because nothing new can possibly be found that can add anything to our current base of knowledge and understanding.

The statement itself is ludicrous on its face.

The same applies to DNA and fossil records.

If your statements were accurate, then all the scientist of the world could begin pursuing other careers, as your assertions made all of their work superfluous. They will just be wasting time, money, and resources, because everything that can ever be found has already been discovered.

I will endeavor to alert the press and notify the unemployment bureaus to prepare for the rush.
Ask Ron Malone

Piqua, OH

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#27123
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Question the Principles wrote:
Susan Engel, a senior lecturer in psychology and director of the teaching program at Williams College and the author of Red Flags or Red Herrings? Predicting Who Your Child Willl Become, frames our challenge this: There are two basic problems with education in America...
Problem One: too many kids in America go to schools that don't even begin to offer them the hope of getting to average.
Our second problem, explains Engel, is just as big, if not bigger. It's that "even the nice schools" aren't good enough. These schools have decent facilities, adequate class sizes, a good number of teachers who like their job and/or like kids, and a majority of students who can read, who can pass standarized state tests. These schools are often okay, but not really good.
Too many teachers are not that well educated, not that on fire to be teachers, and not that challenged within the system to be terrific. Such schools often lack any coherent or compelling idea about what a good education consists of, what high schools should emphasize, how to be really vibrant learning communities.
These 'okay' schools may send kids like yours and mine on a good path -- good colleges, good job options--but even in these schools, too many kids are not living up to their intellectual or personal potential. They're not engaged, and not headed to become the inventors, entrepreneurs, and stewards of the Earth that we're going to need.
...Springboro taxpayers are questioning if the Ron Malone threesome, running on the agenda of an insanely popular former SHS principal, and re-instating status quo business as usual, is the ticket that will give us the best return on our investment of school tax dollars in our children's future?
Question: Did you know that according to the Department of Education, about a third of first year students entering college had taken at least one remedial course in reading, writing, or math;.... and having to take just one remedial curse is highly correlated with failure to graduate from college?

Mr. Malone, What do you think of the future of education?

Answer: Education today seems to be narrowing its focus to Emphasize core course: math, science, language arts....
There needs to be a RE-EMPHASIS on the value of the eudcator.

That's the bottom line that school board candidate Ron Malone has for our students' 21st century education; but is it good enough for Springboro parents?
motorvoter

Cincinnati, OH

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#27124
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Doug, I don't think you understand basic scientific principles - or you're being deliberately obtuse. In any event, we should start with the simple stuff.

This is a good stating point - http://notjustatheory.com/

Also, this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theor...

In no way will evolutionary theory ever be "finished" - not in 1000 years. Nor will the germ theory of disease, gravitational theory, etc. Discoveries and findings from experiments are constantly being added to the theory.

It is not the case that there are a myriad of holes in evolutionary theory - at best, just a bunch of babble from pseudo-scientists. You folks haven't even found one anachronistic fossil. The DNA matches up almost perfectly with the fossil record.

But don't take it from me - take it from a bunch of people named Steve - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve
Chudbud

Springboro, OH

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#27125
Sep 2, 2013
 
motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.
But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
. Not once have they ever suggested supplanting evolution with creationism. Where do you come up with this nonsense? You need not worry anyway. This will never see the light of day in the classroom.
TV Land

Piqua, OH

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#27126
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Chudbud wrote:
<quoted text>
. Not once have they ever suggested supplanting evolution with creationism. Where do you come up with this nonsense? You need not worry anyway. This will never see the light of day in the classroom.
We've watched a few of the board meetings of the parents who speak out against the board for trying to put religion in the schools; but the way we see it; this proposed policy change is all about protecting our kid's free speech, and all the parents and kids we know are all for that! Many parents are even afraid to speak up for ourselves to the teachers, fearing if we don't agree with their narrow tunnel vision, then our kids may feel the fallout of teacher-wrath if their parents speak up in public. Those of us who respect school leaders and board members who are leading our school district in the right direction are a majority of voters throughout the community; and disagree with the manner in which these few parents are distorting the agenda. They speak to the TV cameras as if they are the only voice; but it is only at the polls that all voices in the community are heard.
motorvoter

Cincinnati, OH

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#27127
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Chudbud wrote:
<quoted text>
This will never see the light of day in the classroom.
Right - as long as voters keep resisting the efforts of creationist nuts.
No Turning Back

Piqua, OH

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Ask Ron Malone wrote:
<quoted text>
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
--Charles Darwin--
Time to change the subject from Ricki Pepin, Kelly Kohls, and real scientists. Time to ask Ron Malone WHY he is running for school board, now that his "platform of challenging Kelly Kohls" has dropped him to the bottom of the voter's list?
Learning to accept and adapt to change is the skill of a lifetime!
Should we allow Mr. Malone, who has 40 years PAST experience as a professional educator (in his own time) to keep our kids 21st centrury education "left behind" his unchanging belief that we should re-instate union first business as usual?
Not A Chance!

"We must sail sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it---but we must sail, and not drift, nor lie at anchor."
(Oliver Wendell Holmes)
Doug Wiedeman

Springfield, OH

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#27129
Sep 2, 2013
 

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motorvoter wrote:
Doug, I don't think you understand basic scientific principles - or you're being deliberately obtuse. In any event, we should start with the simple stuff.
This is a good stating point - http://notjustatheory.com/
Also, this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theor...
In no way will evolutionary theory ever be "finished" - not in 1000 years. Nor will the germ theory of disease, gravitational theory, etc. Discoveries and findings from experiments are constantly being added to the theory.
It is not the case that there are a myriad of holes in evolutionary theory - at best, just a bunch of babble from pseudo-scientists. You folks haven't even found one anachronistic fossil. The DNA matches up almost perfectly with the fossil record.
But don't take it from me - take it from a bunch of people named Steve - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve
Who are you folks?

Your post merely served to validate my point that science and knowledge are never ending quests, you seem content on stopping the knowledge train right here and right now because that is where you are comfortable.

Denying any other possible possibilities is akin to denying humankind's innate curiosity. Just because we are afraid of what we may find has never stopped mankind in the past and I doubt very seriously if it will stop mankind in the future.

Assuming that we know all there is to be known about everything is the height of arrogance in a select few in each generation. As time progressed those people were proven irrevocably wrong in their assumptions.

We should not be so closed minded and open ourselves to opportunities to expand our horizons rather than narrowing them.
motorvoter

Cincinnati, OH

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#27130
Sep 2, 2013
 

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Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
We should not be so closed minded and open ourselves to opportunities to expand our horizons rather than narrowing them.
Science is, in fact, constantly changing. What I don't think you understand is that making superstitious claims is not enough - you actually have to back up your claims with evidence and facts. Unfortunately, there are no facts to support astrology, 911 conspiracy claims, creationism, etc.

You should keep your mind open, but no so open that your brain falls out.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/modern_sci...

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