Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31964 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Got Pride

Cincinnati, OH

#27100 Sep 1, 2013
Dave S wrote:
Not in my community will the greedy, self-interested, community destruction oriented tea party whack jobs posting the same old BS on here destroy the school district that is educating my children. And no I am not a union person nor am I a teacher. I'm a blue collar guy working in a tool shop here in Springboro. Amazing how ignorant you people are.
Wow! What's a nice guy like you doing "way down low in Boro?"

Aren't there "tool shops" somewhere in La-La Land looking to employ you so that you could educate your children among perfect neighbors, that are more of your own "kind?"
For Sure Ignorance could be contagious-- best scurry off before you and your own get "Ignorance."
swee pea

Cleveland, OH

#27101 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
BREAKING: Likely victim of Kelly Kohls-connected Institute on the Constitution wants YOU to join him at Ground Zero to question the official story! Will you be there, Doug Wiedeman?
www.youtube.com/watch...
visibility911.libsyn.com/2006/06
archive.theamericanview.com/index.php...
fauxcapitalist.com/2012/06/11/purchased-an-in...
Mr. motor mouth, the verbiage you've posted here epitomizes that of an individual that's grossly afflicted with short man's syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex

So glad I could help!

(-;
Read My Lips

Cincinnati, OH

#27102 Sep 2, 2013
SAY NO TO CRAZY wrote:
<quoted text>
How are they FALSE accusations? Have you not been to the BOE meetings, read the newspapers, or read the articles on the internet? It has been ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL to teach creationism in science class. You can practice your religious expressions all you want in your church/home, or as a student individually as laid out in the Ohio Revised Code 3316.601, but you can't go against the law cases on the books that have repeatedly determined different than YOUR opinion. It's not about YOU. It's the law.
Read my lips and Read the Newspapers -- It's not about YOU.
It's the law that protects freedom of speech (discussion).

Did YOU not read in the local newspaper, the statement of fact made by our Springboro Schools BOE President, Kelly Kohls, who said: It's not about teaching creationism -- it's about discussing creationism.

Thus, YOUR false accusations that the board was pushing teaching creationism.
with blinders on

Cleveland, OH

#27104 Sep 2, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>

Speaking of which, have you ever come up with an argument that supports Mr. Malone's candidacy for the school board?
Looking at Mr. Malone's many accomplishments:
Allows over hundreds of thousands of dollars to be stolen from his Booster Club at the high school during his tenure.
You bring up a very good point. Obviously the boosters deserve blame for failing to have an effective multiple party checks-and-balance system. However at the same time, this most fundimental of bookkeeping ethics issues no doubt was streaming in front of Malone (and Lolli's) eyes like a rocket's red glare.
Good Bad and Ugly

Cincinnati, OH

#27105 Sep 2, 2013
Lerxst wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a very interesting, and I think the most important, point. The problem in our city is there aren't so many people pointing out the problems, let alone even acknowledging them. I guarantee you the vast majority of the noisy springboro parents that hate the current board and can't stand to see a levy fail know not one iota about the report that Doug keeps posting. They see the words "Excellent with distinction" and have no clue of the criteria that makes up that false rating.
As for solutions? Well, seems to me the current board has implemented many of them.
Well, seems to me the good work being done by our reform-minded BOE majority members,(in just less than two years of doing what's right for our school children and community) has been overshadowed in the public board meetings for sure by the pre-arranged grandstanding of bad and ugly words of war against taxpayers by the pro-levy lovers. Good news is that the vast majority of voters have been educated to recognize that it is those pro-levy lovers behaving badly that need to change direction of status quo failures, and join us in celebrating our successes in the direction of sustainability for our future....way beyond the November elections.
motorvoter

Dayton, OH

#27106 Sep 2, 2013
Read My Lips wrote:
<quoted text>
Did YOU not read in the local newspaper, the statement of fact made by our Springboro Schools BOE President, Kelly Kohls, who said: It's not about teaching creationism -- it's about discussing creationism.
Thus, YOUR false accusations that the board was pushing teaching creationism.
Are you that dumb? Isn't this transparent enough for you to pick up on? "Teaching the controversy" etc. is just another method for getting creationism into the classroom.

Why not teach astrology, because lots of people in America believe in astrology?

Creationism is a phony idea, and does not even approach what we call science.

If you believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, and that God created light before he created the sun, go ahead. Have fun. But please note that the rational people of the world will resist every step that you take of getting this silliness into the classroom.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27107 Sep 2, 2013
with blinders on wrote:
<quoted text>
You bring up a very good point. Obviously the boosters deserve blame for failing to have an effective multiple party checks-and-balance system. However at the same time, this most fundimental of bookkeeping ethics issues no doubt was streaming in front of Malone (and Lolli's) eyes like a rocket's red glare.
For someone who claims to be so in tune with the goings on at the high school, how did Mr. Malone miss, from his position of access and influence, what others saw in an hour or two of working in the concession stands?

Mr. Malone also must not have had a very curious mind over the 13 year period he oversaw the operations of the high school if he never bothered to inquire how much money the boosters were raising for his athletic programs during that time.

Mr. Malone also must not have a very financially intuitive mind if he could never figure out, at least roughly, how much money was supposed to be flowing through those concession stands or other fund raisers into the booster checkbook.

Mr. Malone's athletic director, Mr Holtrey, developed an accounting record for the boosters in 2008.
Mr. Holtrey ostensibly recorded each and every expense or revenue item in chronological order with a running tally for the Boosters and the various sports teams.

Mr Malone's athletic director, Mr Holtrey, composed the rationale for the pay to participate scam, are we to believe Mr. Malone never reviewed the proposal for his high school or the underlying assumptions and historical record available?

If we are to believe Mr. Malone was a financially hands off administrator, we must also believe he is an extraordinarily uncurious man in regards to finances.

Considering he is asking to be put in charge of a $45,000,000 budget, that does not bode well for the taxpayers, parents, or students of this district.
motorvoter

Dayton, OH

#27108 Sep 2, 2013
Here's a great article that speaks to the idiocy of "teaching the controversy" - which, as you say, Kelly Kohls apparently refers to as "discussion."

www.teachersdomain.org/assets/wgbh/evol07/evo...

I do realize that you folks might not respect the source, as Dr. Eugenie Scott is a real scientist with a real PhD who has dedicated her life to science education.

Not at all like your Ricki Pepin, who wants to charge you $30 for you to learn about her magic diet, which apparently will cure 80% of all diseases.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27109 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you that dumb? Isn't this transparent enough for you to pick up on? "Teaching the controversy" etc. is just another method for getting creationism into the classroom.
Why not teach astrology, because lots of people in America believe in astrology?
Creationism is a phony idea, and does not even approach what we call science.
If you believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, and that God created light before he created the sun, go ahead. Have fun. But please note that the rational people of the world will resist every step that you take of getting this silliness into the classroom.
Motorvoter you seem to have a mind that not nearly as open as you wish to appear in public.

Who said anything about teaching the origins of creation as science? I personally believe it is better suited to the social studies classes and the study of other cultures. After all, how different cultures and societies view the creation of their universe colors how they view life in general. What was the view of the Shawnee of creation and their position with its scope? How did they reconcile their actions with this belief and their interactions with both nature and others of humankind?

The same can be asked of the Arab culture of the Middle East? Or the Jews of the same region?
What about the beliefs of the ancient Mayans? Or those who inhabit the subcontinent in India?

Basic cultural beliefs help form long lasting cultural mores and values, to ignore these is to view only the politically correct half of the cultures, histories, and societies of our world.

Why would you wish to deprive our children of this knowledge?
the stink in distinction

Cleveland, OH

#27110 Sep 2, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>

Malone promotes PROFICIENT as the gold standards in our schools despite knowing full well that PROFICIENT equals FAILURE.
Etc, etc, etc.....
It is a great feeling to be recognized as excellent, isn’t it? It just feels wonderful to know that your hard work has paid off, that you have produced something of outstanding quality or superior merit, and that you are remarkably good at what you do, extraordinary, in fact.

Everyone wants to feel as if they produce excellent work. Everyone wants their efforts to merit a trophy, a medal, or an A+ on a report card. But the truth is, not all efforts produce excellent results.

In the 2010-2011 school year, 352 school districts received a ranking of “excellent” or “excellent with distinction”, an increase from 297 districts in 2009-2010 – almost 58% of all districts in Ohio. Is it really possible that a MAJORITY of districts in Ohio are producing students who perform at extraordinary levels? As it turns out, the answer is a simple and resounding NO. Although there are indeed some high-performing districts in Ohio, the standards used to grade districts in this state are shockingly low. The more one analyzes what it takes to be an “excellent” district, the clearer it becomes that something is horribly wrong with Ohio’s standards for excellence.

The growth of excellent / excellent with distinction in Ohio

2002-2003 85 districts
2003-2004 117 districts
2004-2005 111 districts
2005-2006 192 districts
2006-2007 139 districts
2007-2008 226 districts
2008-2009 270 districts
2009-2010 296 districts
2010-2011 352 districts

Do the levels of student performance growth in Ohio warrant a quadrupling of the number of districts in the excellent category over the last decade? Or has the state merely manipulated the accountability system to swell the numbers of “excellent” districts? The answer is likely the latter...

...Districts love to point to their fine report card rating as evidence of high performance. Real estate agents love to tout those excellent ratings as proof that a home in a community is a good value. But at some point, Ohioans may want to take a serious look at what is really happening in their school districts. Parents and taxpayers need to know that “excellent” may not be as advertised. It is a disservice to the general public, to parents, and especially to children when we pretend that more and more districts are doing a stellar job, when they are not...Policymakers must acknowledge that there are serious flaws in an evaluation system that says a majority of districts are doing excellent work when all the data comparing Ohio students nationally and internationally paint a very different picture...

Grading on a Curve (excerpts)
The Illusion of Excellence in Ohio’s Schools
Ann E. Sheldon & Colleen D. Grady
Ohio Association for Gifted Children
Nov. 2011

http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C...
motorvoter

United States

#27111 Sep 2, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally believe it is better suited to the social studies classes and the study of other cultures.
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.

But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Ask Ron Malone

Cincinnati, OH

#27112 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
Here's a great article that speaks to the idiocy of "teaching the controversy" - which, as you say, Kelly Kohls apparently refers to as "discussion."
www.teachersdomain.org/assets/wgbh/evol07/evo...
I do realize that you folks might not respect the source, as Dr. Eugenie Scott is a real scientist with a real PhD who has dedicated her life to science education.
Not at all like your Ricki Pepin, who wants to charge you $30 for you to learn about her magic diet, which apparently will cure 80% of all diseases.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
--Charles Darwin--

Time to change the subject from Ricki Pepin, Kelly Kohls, and real scientists. Time to ask Ron Malone WHY he is running for school board, now that his "platform of challenging Kelly Kohls" has dropped him to the bottom of the voter's list?

Learning to accept and adapt to change is the skill of a lifetime!
Should we allow Mr. Malone, who has 40 years PAST experience as a professional educator (in his own time) to keep our kids 21st centrury education "left behind" his unchanging belief that we should re-instate union first business as usual?
Ask Ron Malone

Cincinnati, OH

#27113 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.
But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Ask Ron Malone why he is running to gain control of the board?
That's what we're talking about and we all know that this obsession you have with right-wing agendas is nothing more than Malone's agenda of gathering the SEA under his wing to re-emphasis the value of the left-wing agenda of pro-levy lovers.

Ask Ron Malone why he bullied the Mom of his students, relentlessly spreading lies about this Springboro parent, with no sensitivity to the "feelings" of his students whose Mom he is falsely accusing of trying to push him out of his Job?
Ask Ron Malone why he exercised his duties as "bully-in-chief school officer" while neglecting to implement measures to individual student's academic potential?
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27114 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
I would actually not mind if a few sentences were spent on Christian creationism within the context of discussing Muslim creationism, Roman creationism, Hindu creationism and lots of other creation myths throughout the ages. It certainly is historical fact that people have believed and continue to believe such myths.
But that's not what we're talking about, and you know it. Kelly Kohls and other members of the board were pushing, and perhaps continue to push, the obvious right-wing Christian agenda of supplanting evolution with creationism.
Au contraire, mon ami, it was you who made it into a scientific question and only a scientific question.

We should not be in the business of telling our children that all science is sacrosanct and there is positively no other option but the one presented in this textbook. As we all know the art of science is a constantly evolving work that builds daily upon the works of millions around the planet. Most grown adults who have some passing knowledge of these issues also know that what was once accepted fact can change in a heartbeat as someone else comes up with better, more definitive proof in another direction.

I like the mystery of science and all that it has proven or figured out about life and the universe, but it does not answer all questions definitively. I do not suppose it ever will, but I will still keep my paying attention.
Ask Ron Malone

Cincinnati, OH

#27115 Sep 2, 2013
It's no use saying "We are doing our best."
You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
-Winston Churchill

Question: Mr. Malone, why did you not do what was necessary as a professional educator during the past 13 years; instead of evolving into being a best princiP-A-L like your kids wanted you to be?

Question: Aren't REAL EDUCATORS supposed to teach others what they NEED to succeed; instead of wanting themselves to succeed as "insanely popular" with others? Of what value to our kids' future success is that leadership of Principal Ron's?
motorvoter

Cincinnati, OH

#27116 Sep 2, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
Most grown adults who have some passing knowledge of these issues also know that what was once accepted fact can change in a heartbeat as someone else comes up with better, more definitive proof in another direction.
Exactly! Come up with proof of creationism or intelligent design (really the same thing) and I will agree that such ideas should be taught to children. The problem is, just like astrologists and Muslim creationists, you have no evidence. Everything we know from the fossil record, DNA, geological record, etc. confirms evolutionary theory.
motorvoter

Cincinnati, OH

#27117 Sep 2, 2013
Doug Wiedeman wrote:
<quoted text>
I like the mystery of science and all that it has proven or figured out about life and the universe, but it does not answer all questions definitively. I do not suppose it ever will, but I will still keep my paying attention.
Knock yourself out. Read up all you want on the powers of pyramids and crystal and astrology, and Bigfoot sightings, and alternative medicine like homeopathy, and whatever else is not supported by science, given the lack of evidence.

Let's just keep this out of school, OK? Particularly when you're trying to push the Abrahamic god.
Question the Principles

Cincinnati, OH

#27118 Sep 2, 2013
Susan Engel, a senior lecturer in psychology and director of the teaching program at Williams College and the author of Red Flags or Red Herrings? Predicting Who Your Child Willl Become, frames our challenge this: There are two basic problems with education in America...
Problem One: too many kids in America go to schools that don't even begin to offer them the hope of getting to average.
Our second problem, explains Engel, is just as big, if not bigger. It's that "even the nice schools" aren't good enough. These schools have decent facilities, adequate class sizes, a good number of teachers who like their job and/or like kids, and a majority of students who can read, who can pass standarized state tests. These schools are often okay, but not really good.
Too many teachers are not that well educated, not that on fire to be teachers, and not that challenged within the system to be terrific. Such schools often lack any coherent or compelling idea about what a good education consists of, what high schools should emphasize, how to be really vibrant learning communities.
These 'okay' schools may send kids like yours and mine on a good path -- good colleges, good job options--but even in these schools, too many kids are not living up to their intellectual or personal potential. They're not engaged, and not headed to become the inventors, entrepreneurs, and stewards of the Earth that we're going to need.

...Springboro taxpayers are questioning if the Ron Malone threesome, running on the agenda of an insanely popular former SHS principal, and re-instating status quo business as usual, is the ticket that will give us the best return on our investment of school tax dollars in our children's future?

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#27119 Sep 2, 2013
Question the Principles wrote:
...Springboro taxpayers are questioning if the Ron Malone threesome, running on the agenda of an insanely popular former SHS principal, and re-instating status quo business as usual, is the ticket that will give us the best return on our investment of school tax dollars in our children's future?
I like Petroni, assuming that he's the one who promotes financial responsibility and not all that crazy creationism which keeps creeping into the agenda. But I fail to see how a School Board can function without the respect of the parents and the students?

Dr. Malone isn't a Miley Cyrus popularity hound, he's an experienced educator with the respect of his community. In order to affect real change you cannot simply appeal to your base, you need to work with the community in order to find out what works for everyone who is affected by the changes.

Failing to balance financial responsibility with community support only creates further division and makes changes impossible in any direction.
Doug Wiedeman

Cleveland, OH

#27120 Sep 2, 2013
motorvoter wrote:
<quoted text>
Knock yourself out. Read up all you want on the powers of pyramids and crystal and astrology, and Bigfoot sightings, and alternative medicine like homeopathy, and whatever else is not supported by science, given the lack of evidence.
Let's just keep this out of school, OK? Particularly when you're trying to push the Abrahamic god.
Only you seem obsessed with what I may casually note as oddball absurdities, but that is your business.

As I recall, I mentioned not a word of any religious sect. The mere fact that you felt compelled to do so is you showing your bias in a most sneering fashion. Interjecting religion into unrelated conversations for the sake of sensationalism loses you the point of the debate.

Closing one's mind to others belief systems puts one at a distinct disadvantage when attempting to exist in a multicultural environment. Why should our children be constricted from enjoying the benefits of getting to know other cultures and the belief systems that fashioned them?

Just because you do not approve does not mean there is no relevance in understanding those who are different from ourselves.

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