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Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31925 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Curious

Dayton, OH

#25618 Jul 9, 2013
For years we have been hearing that the best and brightest teachers and administrators are leaving the district "in droves". So riddle me this...If Tammy Grigsby is suing the BOE to get a job in this district, is she not one of the best and brightest?

If, according to the chicken little's, the best and brightest are running away in droves, mostly because of this BOE, why then is Mrs. Grigsby suing the BOE because she didn't get a job in the district?

Can you have it both ways? The best are leaving, but she is suing to get in. She really must want to work for this BOE. Does that make her less then one of the best and brightest? IF she is, then we shouldn't have hired her to begin with, or so says the "logic" of those that are always complaining the loudest.

These women crack me up.
NoTeaForMe

Englewood, OH

#25619 Jul 9, 2013
Curious wrote:
For years we have been hearing that the best and brightest teachers and administrators are leaving the district "in droves". So riddle me this...If Tammy Grigsby is suing the BOE to get a job in this district, is she not one of the best and brightest?
If, according to the chicken little's, the best and brightest are running away in droves, mostly because of this BOE, why then is Mrs. Grigsby suing the BOE because she didn't get a job in the district?
Can you have it both ways? The best are leaving, but she is suing to get in. She really must want to work for this BOE. Does that make her less then one of the best and brightest? IF she is, then we shouldn't have hired her to begin with, or so says the "logic" of those that are always complaining the loudest.
These women crack me up.
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.

I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
OldManThacker

Englewood, OH

#25620 Jul 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.
Vote for Doug Wiedeman, the union's choice.
Doug Wiedeman is being investigated for tax evasion, is he not?
Get Real

Cincinnati, OH

#25621 Jul 9, 2013
clan wrote:
<quoted text>
How is promoting a curriculum sponsored by a white supremacist putting our children first?
There is no such curriculum being sponsored.
But have you taken a look at the high schools required reading list of books?

On to current negotiations issues:

How do Springboro Education Association demands of 85/15 compensation benefits "put our children first?"

Our Board of Education's fair and generous offer of employment
to the SEA teachers is "putting our children first."

Our Springboro Education Association is putting their own greed first; proving that Money is the only reason they are teaching;
and threatening to bring harm if their money demands aren't met.

We can do better than that for our children; but wonder if our teachers can do better for themselves by striking against Springboro taxpayers?

It will be interesting to see how our schools can still be great with no union politics in our kid's classrooms. Think of the money our district will save by avoiding all these union lawsuits, when we no longer have union teachers in every classroom.

The SEA doesn't care about our children and they refuse to accept a fair and generous employment contract; so guess the next step for the union is just pack up and head out of town.
Dollars and Sense

Cincinnati, OH

#25622 Jul 9, 2013
The Springboro Board of Education President makes SENSE to me,
as stated in the Springboro Sun on July 4th.

"We have now completed an evaluation of the financial impact of the current SEA proposal. It exceeds the school district's available funds by more than $2 million in years one and two," Kohls said, "In the spirit of transparency, we want to update the public on the BOE and SEA proposed agreements."

The parties remain divided on these key issues:
The board is offering step raises of 4.75 - 5.75 percent per year depending upon level of education when compared to the existing salary schedule. Those not eligible for a step raise would receive a $1,000 annual stipend. The SEA is countering with continued step raises and an additional 2.7 percent raise in base salary in the first year and an additional 1.7 percent in the second year.

The district is offering to pay 80 percent of health, dental and vision insurance premiums, SEA is countering with a continuation of 85 percent paid by the district. Employees now pay $170 per month for family plan coverage. Under the BOE proposal, monthly premiums will increase $57 per month so that employees would now pay $227 per month for the family plan.

The board proposals include a merit/performance-based pay system commencing no later than Feb. 1, 2015.

The proposals presented by the board and SEA agree to maintain the original contract language, thus leaving compensation and healthcare benefits as the remaining issues to resolve.

We have listened to our community. We are committed to providing a quality education, being fiscally prudent and being as fair to our employees as is possible in these difficult economic times,” Kohls said.“The board is also driven by a ‘Children First’ budget
That takes into account all aspects of our children’s education.”

Kohls also announced last week that a tentative agreement between the board and the Springboro Classified Employees Association,(SCEA), the union representing bus drivers, cafeteria workers and other non-teaching staff, is supported by the board,
According to board president, Kelly Kohls.

We are pleased with this tentative agreement,” said Kohls.“We will have an agreement that is a part of our plan to remain sustainable into the future.” She continued,“The SCEA and the BOE agreed to an increase in compensation and changes to the health
Insurance package which the district can accommodate.”

Highlights of the agreement include:
-Step Raises for three years
-$1000 annual stipend for three years;
-Employees will pay 20 percent for healthcare insurance, the district will pay 80 percent of the premium;
-Contract period will be four years

“I am very happy to make this announcement today. Our hope is that we can have similar news about our teacher union negotiations in the near future,” said Kohls.“We promised our community we would approve only agreements that were economically sustainable. We certainly have as far as our classified workers are concerned. This will be our ongoing goal as our negotiation
You are wrong

Mason, OH

#25623 Jul 9, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no such curriculum being sponsored.
But have you taken a look at the high schools required reading list of books?
On to current negotiations issues:
How do Springboro Education Association demands of 85/15 compensation benefits "put our children first?"
Our Board of Education's fair and generous offer of employment
to the SEA teachers is "putting our children first."
Our Springboro Education Association is putting their own greed first; proving that Money is the only reason they are teaching;
and threatening to bring harm if their money demands aren't met.
We can do better than that for our children; but wonder if our teachers can do better for themselves by striking against Springboro taxpayers?
It will be interesting to see how our schools can still be great with no union politics in our kid's classrooms. Think of the money our district will save by avoiding all these union lawsuits, when we no longer have union teachers in every classroom.
The SEA doesn't care about our children and they refuse to accept a fair and generous employment contract; so guess the next step for the union is just pack up and head out of town.
You're clueless, you are strictly basing all of your comments based on your political beliefs. Teachers need a union because any wack job can get elected to the school board and then they make million dollar decisions for a district. If the union wasn't there to protect them teaching would be a horribly unsafe job to hold.
SEA is Wrong

Cincinnati, OH

#25624 Jul 9, 2013
You are wrong wrote:
The BOE does want to strike. They clearly don't want to negotiate. They showed up an hour late for negotiations. They clearly want this to end huh?
Not a BOE member, so can't speak the mind or intentions of the BOE.
Has anyone asked the BOE if they want to strike?
I don't think it is legal for the BOE to strike.
Only the union can strike.
Since the union won't accept the BOE offer, then why doesn't the
BOE give notice to the union that the offer will be taken off the table in five days?
Is this legal?
There should be some way to expedite the union to make up their minds to "strike or not to strike" but whatever, only the SEA can be blamed for their own foolishness and greed.
Our BOE is doing excellent work and have offered a great deal to the SEA.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25626 Jul 10, 2013
Lest we forget what our able employees have accomplished when they come to seek raises based upon past performance.

In our rush to be "FAIR" with the teachers pay, perhaps we should look at the job being performed first.

Our children have seen a gradual climb in the number of students consigned to the D and F range of the OAA math test.

This is the same class of children progressing from 6th grade math in 2009-2010 through 8th grade math in 2011-2012.

6th grade D and F students (09-10)... 302 students

7th grade D and F students (10-11)... 318 students

8th grade D and F students (11-12)... 347 students

Are these the results we expect from our vaunted school system when we are asked to fund the school system?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25627 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And your posting of the same information over and over and over again without one suggestion of a solution never seems to address your salient point. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Who suffers when no one such as yourself offers any solutions to perceived problems? The children suffer.
You are the professional educators, the ones who know best how to educate, where are your answers?

Where in your contract proposals are anything remotely related to improving the education of our children?

Aside the need for more money, less time at work, and less overseeing of the job being performed, where are the children in your mix?

Where are the answers from the professional educators?

Ms. Cook's response to a continual 80% failure rate in math on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test was to "convince" the union to teach less each day, effectively reducing the number of class periods per year by 25 out of 175.

Ms. Cook performed this miracle by reducing each class by 7 minutes each day and adding more class periods. 7 minutes per day x 175 days per teaching year = 1225 minutes per year

1225 minutes per year / last years 49 minute classes = 25 periods of instruction lost in every class

Genius.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25628 Jul 10, 2013
OldManThacker wrote:
<quoted text>
Doug Wiedeman is being investigated for tax evasion, is he not?
Maybe we should inform him.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25629 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And your posting of the same information over and over and over again without one suggestion of a solution never seems to address your salient point. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Who suffers when no one such as yourself offers any solutions to perceived problems? The children suffer.
2000 plus children in this district are already not getting the education the taxpayers are funding.

This is not a new occurrence, but one that has been ongoing for a number of years.

Where has the union been on this issue?

It is as if the union does not care.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25630 Jul 10, 2013
You are wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
You're clueless, you are strictly basing all of your comments based on your political beliefs. Teachers need a union because any wack job can get elected to the school board and then they make million dollar decisions for a district. If the union wasn't there to protect them teaching would be a horribly unsafe job to hold.
Ask the folks that used to work at GM how that program worked out for them.

93% of Americans work under such a system in the private sector, why don't we ask them how they manage.

That number 60 years ago was only 64%, I wonder why over the past 60 years more people opted for the non union program?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25631 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
Or she could be just making the union play.(Tyrannical, that is hilarious)

If this district is such a living hell, and she is making more money teaching in Middletown, why would she want to come to a place like this?

After all, who would willingly take a pay cut to come to work in Springboro?

Let's open up each position and see who applies, since they will all be union members we will be assured everyone is qualified.

Maybe there are lots of other highly qualified teachers out there just like Ms. Grigsby that desire to come to our district for just the same principled reasons.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25632 Jul 10, 2013
What is the plan for the union in my humble opinion?

1) Don't negotiate in good faith

2) Attempt to portray the union members as victims of evil BOE

3) Force Strike

4) Create chaos and anxiety for children and families in coming school year

5) Run and elect union members and union sympathizers for BOE as "compromise" candidates (The only ones they will compromise will be the taxpayers)

6) Once union has control of BOE begin negotiations with union friendly BOE

7) Sign new more "FAIR" contract with large increases for union members

8) Inform taxpayers they need to pass massive new levy to "fix" district financial problems.
Reject Forced Unionism

Cincinnati, OH

#25633 Jul 10, 2013
You are wrong wrote:
<quoted text>
You're clueless, you are strictly basing all of your comments based on your political beliefs. Teachers need a union because any wack job can get elected to the school board and then they make million dollar decisions for a district. If the union wasn't there to protect them teaching would be a horribly unsafe job to hold.
YOU are wrong, If YOU think your false teachings of Unionism religion are the ONLY rule of authority over Springboro taxpayers MONEY! Forced Unionism is a WASTE of OUR CHILDREN'S School Tax Dollars! Forced Unionism has NO place in our children's classrooms in our successful Springboro schools! Forced unionism is spreading a dome of hostility, greed, suspicion and disrespect of "outsiders and non-union professionals" over our entire community, protesting against all good things that have been accomplished by our BOE majority representatives, doing what's right for our school children's classroom teachers and our taxpaying homeowners. Springboro property owners' rights are continuously violated by the Springboro Education Association’s old outdated collective bargaining laws, giving Springboro Teachers legal rights to emotionally blackmail taxpayers for more taxation on our private properties; or else the teachers will take away our students' RIGHTS (and excitement) of welcoming a new school year of learning, in our excellent schools with highly qualified and well paid classroom teachers. We all remember the excitement of beginning a new school year; but we all wonder WHY Springboro teachers are refusing to accept this great job offer, depriving our children of their "rights."

And speaking of protection.. the only protection the union offers
our good teachers is teachers RIGHTS to continue doing WRONG by joining the Union. Unionism is simply the "state religion" imposed upon a free democracy, taxing the people, but refusing to recognize the people's representatives, as elected officials on the governing body our of local schools.

Currently, we have about 400 Springboro union activists, some of them professionally trained community organizers and blog writers, working with the press toward the political destruction of BOE elected officials, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr.Rigano; fighting for the oppressive political liberty of the Springboro Education Association, and against our children's rights to a quality classroom education within the guidelines of our Children's First budget, which has been UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED by our Board of Education elected officials
(who represent the community as a whole, including the 400 protestors making noise to have it all one way, union first.)
We are hearing the outrage of "unfairness" from the Springboro Education Association, fighting to get more money for doing less work for our children's classroom education. But where is the outrage of "unfairness" to our children? Is there a BOE majority representing our children first who will Stand Up For Kids during these negotiations and demand that Springboro Teachers accept a great employment contract outside joining the union, and with the political liberty of paying no unionism "taxation without representation?"
If Springboro Taxpayers and teachers were free from the enslavement of Springboro Education Association’s "radical rules
of greed" ..... there would be plenty of money to pay our quality teachers increased wages, based on individual work performance and without this great expense and disruption of union collective bargaining "rights" to do wrong for our children's future.
Heart Burn

Atlanta, GA

#25634 Jul 10, 2013
NoTeaForMe wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.
I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!
So what you are trying to say is, if I follow your "logic" you want it both ways. You want to tell us that because of this particular BOE the best and the brightest teachers and administrators are running away "in droves". Yet here is a teacher actually suing the, what did you call it? oh yea..."tryannical" BOE to work in our blue ribbon excellent with distinction district. She must REALLY want to work here eh?

I mean, to actually hire a lawyer and sue a BOE to work in a district where she is part of a group that keeps telling us the best and brightest are running away from in droves. She wants to work for a BOE where the group she is a part of tells us constantly is awful, tyrannical, provide deplorable work conditions, anti kids, anti education, have agendas and a bunch of other chicken little BS. AND she wants to leave a better paying job in a nearby district to do all this?

So which is it? Is she not really one of the best and the brightest that is running away in droves? OR is this BOE providing excellent schools, an excellent enviroment to work in, an excellent opportunity to learn in, an excellent opportunity to compete in.

Although you have tried and tried, You can't keep telling us one thing only to support a disgruntled teacher that is actually suing to work here.

You women crack me up.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25635 Jul 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
What is the plan for the union in my humble opinion?
1) Don't negotiate in good faith
2) Attempt to portray the union members as victims of evil BOE
3) Force Strike
4) Create chaos and anxiety for children and families in coming school year
5) Run and elect union members and union sympathizers for BOE as "compromise" candidates (The only ones they will compromise will be the taxpayers)
6) Once union has control of BOE begin negotiations with union friendly BOE
7) Sign new more "FAIR" contract with large increases for union members
8) Inform taxpayers they need to pass massive new levy to "fix" district financial problems.
What is the BOE's plan in my humble opinion?

1) Don't negotiate in good faith
2) Attempt to portray the BOE as the "good guys" against the evil teachers
3) Force Strike
4) Create chaos and anxiety for parents and children to get them on the BOE's side
5) Run and re-elect Tea Party folks whose beliefs and ideas are not part of the main stream of the community as a whole.
6) BOE can take over complete control over everything and begin their take over of the entire state.(Ok, that one is probably a stretch.)
7) Sign a contract that is unfair to everyone and not give any increases to anyone for anything, even though employees have not had a raise over the past few years.
8) Inform tax payers that new tax monies will NEVER be needed, although costs for everything do continue to rise. And not just labor costs, but supply costs, utility costs, etc.

Amazing how a lot of the points are almost exactly the same?
Really Now

Lebanon, OH

#25636 Jul 10, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the BOE's plan in my humble opinion?
1) Don't negotiate in good faith (They have been trying since January, it has been the union dragging its feet to the table)
2) Attempt to portray the BOE as the "good guys" against the evil teachers (They have been forthcoming with their offers and where their positions are, the union on the other hand has only said they want fairness, whatever that means)
3) Force Strike (Hello food stamps and free clinics)
4) Create chaos and anxiety for parents and children to get them on the BOE's side (who is looking out for the children and the taxpayers? BOE)
5) Run and re-elect Tea Party folks whose beliefs and ideas are not part of the main stream of the community as a whole.(How come I never see a Tea Party label on a ballot?)
6) BOE can take over complete control over everything and begin their take over of the entire state.(Ok, that one is probably a stretch.)(Even you think you are crazy on that one)
7) Sign a contract that is unfair to everyone and not give any increases to anyone for anything, even though employees have not had a raise over the past few years.(What does unfair mean? The classified staff got their raises and taken care of pretty quickly)
8) Inform tax payers that new tax monies will NEVER be needed, although costs for everything do continue to rise. And not just labor costs, but supply costs, utility costs, etc.(Nobody has said anything of the sort, they have said given our current cash flow we will not need any new money for up to four years out. That is a far cry from the past five unnecessary levies that failed and deservedly so, they wanted Upwards of $40,000,000)
Amazing how a lot of the points are almost exactly the same?
Define FAIR for me because I have not heard a definition of FAIR

TEA PARTY, what does that mean? Who are these folks? Where do they meet? IWhere do they appear on a ballot? I see Republican, Democrats, and Independents, the occasional Green, a Socialist once in a while, but I have never seen Tea Party.

Define Unfair

What does complete control mean?

The classified people who have not had any access to increasing their pay for the past several years got a raise and seem to be happy. They did this with limited amounts of fan fair and got to the point.

Costs do indeed rise, particularly when you allow them to get out of hand in the first place. Costs that are controlled by market forces tend to stay in line with everything else. Union negotiated costs tend to naturally inflate to the advantage of the union and remain outside of normal market controlling factors.

While new money will eventually be needed, careful husbanding of our existing resources will not require those monies for some time into the future. Unless of course we follow the path followed by so many other bankrupt and near bankrupt districts and communities that bent to the union demands.
your red herring lunch

Cleveland, OH

#25637 Jul 10, 2013
clan wrote:
<quoted text>
How is promoting a curriculum sponsored by a white supremacist putting our children first?
Just Watching's been posting and re-posting data that accurately portrays Springboro student test scores in various grade levels of Ohio Achievement Assessment and the Ohio Graduation Test.
WTF does that have to do with race?
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25638 Jul 10, 2013
Really Now wrote:
<quoted text>
Define FAIR for me because I have not heard a definition of FAIR
TEA PARTY, what does that mean? Who are these folks? Where do they meet? IWhere do they appear on a ballot? I see Republican, Democrats, and Independents, the occasional Green, a Socialist once in a while, but I have never seen Tea Party.
Define Unfair
What does complete control mean?
The classified people who have not had any access to increasing their pay for the past several years got a raise and seem to be happy. They did this with limited amounts of fan fair and got to the point.
Costs do indeed rise, particularly when you allow them to get out of hand in the first place. Costs that are controlled by market forces tend to stay in line with everything else. Union negotiated costs tend to naturally inflate to the advantage of the union and remain outside of normal market controlling factors.
While new money will eventually be needed, careful husbanding of our existing resources will not require those monies for some time into the future. Unless of course we follow the path followed by so many other bankrupt and near bankrupt districts and communities that bent to the union demands.
Who are these Tea Party folks? You honestly cannot with a straight face, ask that question.

Bankrupt and near bankrupt districts. Where are those?

Bargaining with the classified folks don't really stir people up, so of course that was easy to come to a settlement with them. The BOE really couldn't cause any fan fare with those negotiations.

Unfair is in the eye of the beholder.

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