Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31964 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Reflection

Cincinnati, OH

#25437 Jun 28, 2013
Rigano wrote:
Is it just me, or does Jim Rigano seem more and more like a giant douchebag everytime he opens his mouth for the evening news...
Oh Yeah, it just you.
Really

Tipp City, OH

#25438 Jun 28, 2013
Reflection wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh Yeah, it just you.
No, it's not just you. Were you not at the board meeting last night.

Really??
The Next Day

Cincinnati, OH

#25439 Jun 28, 2013
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.

Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25440 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
That couldn't have happened. They are transparent. They will tell you that! Over and over and over....
Say It Again

Cincinnati, OH

#25441 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
That couldn't have happened. They are transparent. They will tell you that! Over and over and over....
Telling it over and over and over.... that's what our First Amendment rights of free speech is all about!
God Bless America! And May God Bless You!
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25442 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Say It Again

Cincinnati, OH

#25443 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Worth Repeating again and again and again.....
Silly Season of Politics

Cincinnati, OH

#25444 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
Not a chance that's going to happen! What makes YOU wooly bully sheep followers of the OEA/SEA politics of personal destruction think that your war of words attacking Springboro taxpayers for increased taxes is destroying OUR civic pride and basic facric of OUR community?

con sti tu tion

Cleveland, OH

#25445 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.
Listen Up

Cincinnati, OH

#25446 Jun 28, 2013
con sti tu tion wrote:
<quoted text>
Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.
Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time,
without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25447 Jun 28, 2013
<con sti tu tion wrote: Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.>>>> >>>>

and Listen Up followed up with <<<<Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time, without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.>>>>> >>>>>>>

Unbelievable !!! no actually in this day and age it is sadly to believable. Why the personal attacks on Mr. Miller? For many months many of you took the low road and made personal attacks that all he did was sleep through the meetings. Now he speaks and is engaged in the meetings and you attack him for that. Talk about hypocritical. Nobody should dare to personally attack the people you agree with yet you do the exact same thing to those you disagree with. Seems to me that both sides have studied Saul Alinsky a little too much.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25448 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
Well Duh

Cincinnati, OH

#25449 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
OK! sounds like a fun game that all kids enjoy!

First, IF the "suspects" ARE members of a BOE subcommittee,
let's shine some light on that and expose the name of the subcommittee. sheep, can you be in charge and IDENTIFY that subcommittee....

Next, now pay attention sheep... IF they meet "in a basement" can you reveal the location of that basement?

Now, sheep, about that "discussing official school district business"..... with your top secret clearance and super spy tool box of snoopiness, how do you plan to get into this secret meeting and get a record of this violating business going on "in the basement" so that you can present your proof? That's always important when charges are being made that laws are being
violated. Let's say you are opening the "case" of violating the law. What would be your opening argument of wrong doing?

Would YOU classify this official school district business as
top secret? certified? classified? verified? nullified? mortified? simplified... or just plain none of your business?
Twp resident

Cleveland, OH

#25450 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<con sti tu tion wrote: Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.>>>> >>>>
and Listen Up followed up with <<<<Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time, without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.>>>>> >>>>>>>
Unbelievable !!! no actually in this day and age it is sadly to believable. Why the personal attacks on Mr. Miller? For many months many of you took the low road and made personal attacks that all he did was sleep through the meetings. Now he speaks and is engaged in the meetings and you attack him for that. Talk about hypocritical. Nobody should dare to personally attack the people you agree with yet you do the exact same thing to those you disagree with. Seems to me that both sides have studied Saul Alinsky a little too much.
If Don Miller is "engaged" with anything at board meetings, he's "engaged" with Babb and Maney's respective candid agendas that Springboro administrators teachers and staff, by virtue of their mere existence, deserve carte blanche every entitlement under the sun.
Donald Carter

Stowe, VT

#25451 Jun 28, 2013
So you mean Leon Harrison is a rapist?
The Next Day

Cincinnati, OH

#25452 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
Interesting... I don't think this is the first time a subgroup of the BOE has done something rogue possibly in violation of the rules.

Thanks for summarizing the information. I hadn't had a chance to read the information yet.

I'd like to state something else for many of the posters on here, just because someone doesn't support Kohls, Petroni and Rigano, doesn't mean they are a lock-step supporter of the union. The world isn't black and white though I know many of you want it to be because it makes things a lot easier.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25453 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
your welcome for the links. Glad to help out.

for your example ,well it depends, your example is too vague. If you read all of the rules on how subcommittees are set up and when the rules apply and then read what actually constitutes a meeting it still depends. For example did the board majority in formal meeting (meeting as defined under the ORC and sunshine laws) set up a sub committee of 3 (three because then two members would constitute a majority) to have meetings to propose something for action to be taken under the defined function of the subcommittee. Being on one or several subcommittees may or may not matter. an example being two members of a three member duly formed subcommittee for purchase of books could meet with people and discuss everything but books.

a more generic example: lets say a majority of the board in a meeting (as legally defined) set up a subcommittee of three to look into the purchase of widgets. There is a formal record in the meeting minutes and available to the public describing the subcommittee for widgets and persons named. The way I understand it Two members of the subcommittee cannot get together and discuss widgets even with a group of constituents and deliberate and come to a decision on formal action without falling under the sunshine laws. Because they are discussing widgets which falls under the prview of the subcommittee . There are also exceptions for whats termed hallway casual discussions.

Lets say two members of the widget sub committee are in a social setting: lets use your example of in someones basement and someone brings up gadgets and they discuss gadgets. They can discuss gadgets because they are on the widget sub committee. One member may or may not be on the gadget committee. As long as two gadget sub committee members are not in attendance there is no legal meeting by definition. It is not considered a meeting of the widget subcommittee under the law and not subject to the open records rules as I read the rules. There are many nuances plus court rulings to consider. In some of the cases what one would think is obviously a meeting actually was ruled not an official meeting and not subject to sunshine.

I think the defining section is if the actual discussion is germain to the sub committees function.

as an aside:
Every person needs to remember Contract time is tough for any entity. Be it schools or corporations. Tempers run high on both sides. It all boils down to the same problem be it public or private: employees want more, employers want to pay less than employees want.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25454 Jun 28, 2013
Twp resident wrote:
<quoted text>
If Don Miller is "engaged" with anything at board meetings, he's "engaged" with Babb and Maney's respective candid agendas that Springboro administrators teachers and staff, by virtue of their mere existence, deserve carte blanche every entitlement under the sun.
In other words you agree with my post that if you agree with someones views, politics etc. you do not want personal attacks. If you disagree with a persona vies, politics etc attack attack attack.

Usually it takes several posts before someone proves my hypocrisy claim..amazing how fast this happened.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25455 Jun 28, 2013
sorry for typos.

It should have read

In other words you agree with my post that if you agree with someones views, politics etc. you do not want personal attacks. If you disagree with a persons views, politics etc. attack attack attack. Usually it takes several posts before someone proves my hypocrisy claim..amazing how fast this happened.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#25456 Jun 28, 2013
25000 posts amazing!

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