Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,796

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questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25433 Jun 27, 2013
Truth Be Told wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth has finally been revealed!
All this pious blabbering about separation between church and state being made by the opposition to the Constitution study is all about the money! It appears that some of our school comunity members feel that there should only be a SHS Union Teacher in the classromm of the community-wide study; so that the SHS Union Teacher from the Social Studies department, could be paid the salary for teaching summer school. And that's what all the fuss is about.
hmm is this a different tactic or has someone gone completely off the reservation tonight?
surely you did not draw any of those conclusions from my post. In fact I never addressed any of the items you brought up. All I did was tell the whiners that if they want a different view on the constitution taught then they should rent the building and put on their own seminar. I never once ventured into the realm of first amendment or the misinterpretation of the separation of church and state that quite frankly is misunderstood quite often. Not once did I mention paying a teacher.
So I must ask where did your post come from? Remember you actually quoted my post which was:

"Why are you posing (should have been posting) if no one reads it? if you want another group to come in with a purely secular take on the constitution fine. Rent the facilities and put on the seminar. Problem solved. Now if they deny you access to the facility then you have a legitimate concern. if they deny you admission there is a problem. molehills to mountains here we go again. "

Or did you not realize you could reply without quoting someones post.Just wondering.
Great Pride

Columbus, NC

#25434 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
I take great pride in the fact that 80% of our kids in the 7th and 8th grade can't pass a basic Ohio Achievement Assesent test, 80% of our kids getting D's and F's is a cause for celebration of the effectiveness of our school system.
Sheep are scared

Cherryville, NC

#25435 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain the two groups that the BOE are bringing in to "educate us" and our children about the Constitution then? They are religious based organizations. One of them, The National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS) is a conservative, religious-themed constitutionalist organization, founded by Latter-Day Saint political writer Cleon Skousen......
Sheep get scared might easy, provide them with a different perspective and watch their heads spin.
Just Watching

Cherryville, NC

#25436 Jun 28, 2013
2000 plus kids are not getting the education the taxpayers are currently funding.

Too many teachers are spending time abrogating their teaching responsibilities for more trendy modes of education.

If the children can learn watching videos presented by a teacher why do we need a high paid teacher in the classroom?

If group worksheets can help our children teach themselves why do we need a high paid teacher in the classroom?

If Hollywood movies that require 3 class periods can replace actual teacher instruction, why do we need high paid teachers in the classroom?

If we can go five years in the junior high with 80% of the kids failing the OAA basic math tests, how much worse would a certified temporary teacher be?

If we are really concerned about the children first, why did a junior high principal with 80% of her students failing basic math on the OAA tests for five years think reducing actual teacher instruction by 18 days per school year would help?( it didn't 80% still got a D or F on the OAA test)

2000 plus children are not getting the education the taxpayers are currently funding, why would anyone think paying more to the same people increase our children's learning
Reflection

Piqua, OH

#25437 Jun 28, 2013
Rigano wrote:
Is it just me, or does Jim Rigano seem more and more like a giant douchebag everytime he opens his mouth for the evening news...
Oh Yeah, it just you.
Really

Maineville, OH

#25438 Jun 28, 2013
Reflection wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh Yeah, it just you.
No, it's not just you. Were you not at the board meeting last night.

Really??
The Next Day

Amelia, OH

#25439 Jun 28, 2013
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.

Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25440 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
That couldn't have happened. They are transparent. They will tell you that! Over and over and over....
Say It Again

Piqua, OH

#25441 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
That couldn't have happened. They are transparent. They will tell you that! Over and over and over....
Telling it over and over and over.... that's what our First Amendment rights of free speech is all about!
God Bless America! And May God Bless You!
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25442 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Say It Again

Piqua, OH

#25443 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Worth Repeating again and again and again.....
Silly Season of Politics

Piqua, OH

#25444 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
Not a chance that's going to happen! What makes YOU wooly bully sheep followers of the OEA/SEA politics of personal destruction think that your war of words attacking Springboro taxpayers for increased taxes is destroying OUR civic pride and basic facric of OUR community?

con sti tu tion

Girard, OH

#25445 Jun 28, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
Based on Miller's comment at the BOE meeting last night that he first learned of the Constitution class sessions when the email announcement came out, I assume that Kohl's, Rigano and Petroni made that decision themselves and took that action on their own. One could also assume that those three also made the decision to grant a waiver of the facility usage fee for those sessions. If those assumptions are correct, was there a violation of the Sunshine Laws and BOE rules? My understanding is that an individual BOE member or a subset of the membership, cannot make a decision without the knowledge of the entire BOE.
Anyone know the specifics of the rules and bylaws?
Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.
Listen Up

Piqua, OH

#25446 Jun 28, 2013
con sti tu tion wrote:
<quoted text>
Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.
Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time,
without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25447 Jun 28, 2013
<con sti tu tion wrote: Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.>>>> >>>>

and Listen Up followed up with <<<<Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time, without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.>>>>> >>>>>>>

Unbelievable !!! no actually in this day and age it is sadly to believable. Why the personal attacks on Mr. Miller? For many months many of you took the low road and made personal attacks that all he did was sleep through the meetings. Now he speaks and is engaged in the meetings and you attack him for that. Talk about hypocritical. Nobody should dare to personally attack the people you agree with yet you do the exact same thing to those you disagree with. Seems to me that both sides have studied Saul Alinsky a little too much.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25448 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest doing some research on your own as to the sunshine laws and board policies. After all many people do complain about how we should not spoon feed all the answers to someone and they will better appreciate the knowledge gained if they have to actually work for the answer.
The board policies you can find online.
I will give you a link to a guide put out by the attorney general office for the sunshine law.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/OhioAttorn...
Hopefully the link works for you, if not a google search can easily find it.. Happy reading. another hint to help you: page 80 of the document is where they begin discussing what is an actual meeting of a public body. As for sheeps past references to basement meetings and hinting at "sunshine" you will find that one or two members in that setting is not a meeting under the sunshine law. But sheep knew that prior to posting.
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
Well Duh

Piqua, OH

#25449 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
OK! sounds like a fun game that all kids enjoy!

First, IF the "suspects" ARE members of a BOE subcommittee,
let's shine some light on that and expose the name of the subcommittee. sheep, can you be in charge and IDENTIFY that subcommittee....

Next, now pay attention sheep... IF they meet "in a basement" can you reveal the location of that basement?

Now, sheep, about that "discussing official school district business"..... with your top secret clearance and super spy tool box of snoopiness, how do you plan to get into this secret meeting and get a record of this violating business going on "in the basement" so that you can present your proof? That's always important when charges are being made that laws are being
violated. Let's say you are opening the "case" of violating the law. What would be your opening argument of wrong doing?

Would YOU classify this official school district business as
top secret? certified? classified? verified? nullified? mortified? simplified... or just plain none of your business?
Twp resident

Girard, OH

#25450 Jun 28, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<con sti tu tion wrote: Just be glad Don Miller has been able to improve his speech enunciation to a level at which spoken four-syllable words he may utter are more ascertainable for his audience.>>>> >>>>
and Listen Up followed up with <<<<Now all he needs to do is listen to opinions of others, and figure out the difference between his one-sided hypocritical thinking and the critical thinking on various issues, all at the same time, without feeling threatened that he is loosing his own voice on principles for which he stands.>>>>> >>>>>>>
Unbelievable !!! no actually in this day and age it is sadly to believable. Why the personal attacks on Mr. Miller? For many months many of you took the low road and made personal attacks that all he did was sleep through the meetings. Now he speaks and is engaged in the meetings and you attack him for that. Talk about hypocritical. Nobody should dare to personally attack the people you agree with yet you do the exact same thing to those you disagree with. Seems to me that both sides have studied Saul Alinsky a little too much.
If Don Miller is "engaged" with anything at board meetings, he's "engaged" with Babb and Maney's respective candid agendas that Springboro administrators teachers and staff, by virtue of their mere existence, deserve carte blanche every entitlement under the sun.
Donald Carter

Stowe, VT

#25451 Jun 28, 2013
So you mean Leon Harrison is a rapist?
The Next Day

Amelia, OH

#25452 Jun 28, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the link. I took your advise and found that in section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code, it states that a subcommittee of an elected body, does constitute a body that is subject to the Open Meetings Act. If, say for example, Mr.s Rigano and Petroni are members of a BOE subcommittee, and they meet "in a basement" and discuss official school district business, they would be violating the Open Meetings Act, would they not?
Interesting... I don't think this is the first time a subgroup of the BOE has done something rogue possibly in violation of the rules.

Thanks for summarizing the information. I hadn't had a chance to read the information yet.

I'd like to state something else for many of the posters on here, just because someone doesn't support Kohls, Petroni and Rigano, doesn't mean they are a lock-step supporter of the union. The world isn't black and white though I know many of you want it to be because it makes things a lot easier.

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