Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

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Kelly Doesnt Pay Her Tax

Englewood, OH

#25410 Jun 26, 2013
Picture It wrote:
<quoted text>
Special thanks are due our board member, Kelly Kohls, for taking care of taxpayers' business
Boy did she ever take care of our business!!
Why should we thank someone who doesn't pay their mortgage or their personal taxes...leaving it to us as the hard-working, tax paying citizens to pick up the tab on the $900,000 she walked away from??
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Read it for yourself! Time for Kohls to go in November...
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25411 Jun 26, 2013
Kelly Doesnt Pay Her Tax wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy did she ever take care of our business!!
Why should we thank someone who doesn't pay their mortgage or their personal taxes...leaving it to us as the hard-working, tax paying citizens to pick up the tab on the $900,000 she walked away from??
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Read it for yourself! Time for Kohls to go in November...
Since you have posted this several times (usually signals a troll) and against my better judgement I will take your bait and respond. Not because I support any political person or party, but mainly because I am bored tonight.

I have read the article and the comments you keep posting. Now please answer some of my questions: You keep saying the taxpayers picked up the tab for 900k, How?

You do understand that they claimed 678,580 in assets and 908,110 in liabilities. A difference of 229,530 . They also were allowed to reaffirm some debt and keep some property yet liquidate the rest. So how do you arrive at the 900k the taxpayers are on the hook for. Remember just like in school please show your work.Remember you claimed taxpayers.

As for having a house go upside down and not being able to get financing when the balloon payment comes due: it is pretty understandable when the whole housing market had collapsed nationwide. One must also remember the extreme tightening of credit at the time because of the housing and banking collapse. A person might question taking a loan with a balloon payment , but through the years there have been many many many people who did those type of loans. Some turned out fine others did not. It mainly came down to the timing of when the whole market collapsed and when your note was due. Those whose balloon loans came due before the collapse could easily refinance and did. Those whose balloon loans came due during and after the collapse were screwed unless they had a huge amount of liquid assets to cover the note. Or enough liquid assets to cover the difference between the upside down value and what you still owed plus another 20% of the upside down value for the new down payment. No way at that time could you get 100% financing.

On to another point:

Are you claiming that anyone who has filed personal bankruptcy or had a business fail is somehow damaged goods and should be forever disregarded? If I were you I would do at least a little bit of research before answering this one.
Silly Season of Politics

Piqua, OH

#25412 Jun 26, 2013
Kelly Doesnt Pay Her Tax wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy did she ever take care of our business!!
Why should we thank someone who doesn't pay their mortgage or their personal taxes...leaving it to us as the hard-working, tax paying citizens to pick up the tab on the $900,000 she walked away from??
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Read it for yourself! Time for Kohls to go in November...
The OEA members are some of the worst people we will ever have to deal with as to radical social behavior; because to the OEA radicals they are at war with the taxpayers.
They have the destruction of America in their minds and they are terrible people because their ideology makes them corrosive. They openly use children to execute their maniacal plans for social progressive changes at the expense of society, and this defines their essence. Wars are won by taking away from the other side the will to continue fighting. The OEA attacks them directly hoping to rob them of their will to stand opposed to the union’s progressive agenda.

Of course there is no reason at all for those who have the politics of personal destruction in mind to discredit the success of our reform minded BOE majority led by school board president, Kelly Kohls. From the time Kelly came on board in January 2010, the OEA/SEA have fought furiously in defense of taking control of our school tax dollars, jumping from false accusations in legal actions one after another. It's funny how the political opposition fighting against our children first can come up with the same old reasons trying to support the same old argument, year after year; with nothing but status quo failure to offer in their pro-levy defense! It seems that those who oppose Kelly Kohls winning agenda all operate like union lawyers, knowing what they want others to believe and continually bullying their same failed defense of "putting the financial emphasis on increased taxes for the school union employees and the kids' education can take care of itself." How silly, for sure, and where's responsible education for our children's future in that plan?
If only the union opposition to our children first were to seriously consider new ideas of the school districts new philosophy, then the business as usual teachers union might discover new ways to think.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25413 Jun 27, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you have posted this several times (usually signals a troll) and against my better judgement I will take your bait and respond. Not because I support any political person or party, but mainly because I am bored tonight.
I have read the article and the comments you keep posting. Now please answer some of my questions: You keep saying the taxpayers picked up the tab for 900k, How?
You do understand that they claimed 678,580 in assets and 908,110 in liabilities. A difference of 229,530 . They also were allowed to reaffirm some debt and keep some property yet liquidate the rest. So how do you arrive at the 900k the taxpayers are on the hook for. Remember just like in school please show your work.Remember you claimed taxpayers.
As for having a house go upside down and not being able to get financing when the balloon payment comes due: it is pretty understandable when the whole housing market had collapsed nationwide. One must also remember the extreme tightening of credit at the time because of the housing and banking collapse. A person might question taking a loan with a balloon payment , but through the years there have been many many many people who did those type of loans. Some turned out fine others did not. It mainly came down to the timing of when the whole market collapsed and when your note was due. Those whose balloon loans came due before the collapse could easily refinance and did. Those whose balloon loans came due during and after the collapse were screwed unless they had a huge amount of liquid assets to cover the note. Or enough liquid assets to cover the difference between the upside down value and what you still owed plus another 20% of the upside down value for the new down payment. No way at that time could you get 100% financing.
On to another point:
Are you claiming that anyone who has filed personal bankruptcy or had a business fail is somehow damaged goods and should be forever disregarded? If I were you I would do at least a little bit of research before answering this one.
Should never be forever disregarded...however, should not be running around the district saying they are fiscal responsible. Circumstances happen, yes, unfortunate ones as well....but words have consequences......
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25414 Jun 27, 2013
Interpreting the Dream wrote:
<quoted text>
I was taught as a child in literature class that you had to take into account the period in which something was written and then the writer themselves because they were a product of the prevailing culture, thoughts, and ideas of that period. The Constitution is no different as a piece of writing that reflects the men who drafted the document and all of their hopes, beliefs, prejudices, dreams, and philosophies. Let us be honest, they were religious, god fearing men raised in a time when churches and religion were more central to the lives of people.
Who is to say whose version is correct without listening with a critical mind to the version this group presents. It is as if tolerance or diversity of opinion is a bad thing.
Only Ms Dauber seems to be only source and she will provide us all with the text she feels fits her personal agenda best. Who made her high empress of necessary Constitutional knowledge?
I failed to see this same venomous attacks when a certain youth basketball league was selling the public assets for a profit back to the taxpayers who funded the facilities in the first place. Nor do I see a mad rush to charge the Food Pantry for squating in our building at Jonathon Wright however noble this church sponsored out reach may be.
You don't want to learn anything new or bother to see what the fuss is all about, stay home and burn some books. But please do not ask the rest of us to maintain your cult of ignorance and intolerance.
If the union has a problem with the Constitution or the men who wrote the document and feels that learning more about its origin and intent, then I believe it speaks volumes about the character of the union.
As usual, missing the point. I don't believe anyone is disputing the teaching of the Constitution is a good thing. Of course that is a good thing. It is who is teaching it (two right leaning originalist institutes) and allowing another viewpoint to be taught is also a good thing. Don't we want our students to be critical thinkers? I think that is what the BOE keeps saying. But actions speak louder than words most times and by only offering one view of the world (or the Constitution in this case).....hard to develop critical thinkers.

And from what I know of it, the Food Bank is not church based. And I appreciate that the BOE does not charge them. From what I can tell, they are providing a nice service for those in need.

And as for the basketball, there was plenty of venom about them...it was just on this blog, where most venom is spewed.
Great News

Piqua, OH

#25415 Jun 27, 2013
pro active wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said! Kelly is doing an excellent job with OSBLC and she needs all of our full support in her important role there.
http://osblc.org/
The Ohio School Board Association (OSBA) is an old, outdated bureaucracy made up of almost exclusively liberal educators. Much of this group's unwritten (but sometimes whispered) agenda is about indoctrinating Ohio's school children with as much revisionist-history cirriculum as they can possibly push through the pipe. Just call OSBA and press them for the answers. They'll tell you. The OSBA dislikes the concept of transparency in contact information for school board members for public contact, because they don't believe school board members ought to be directly accountable to the general public,(who, of course, voted them in.)
OSBA believes all school board members ought to be yes-men and yes-women to administrators, teachers and teacher's unions. Of course anyone with common sense knows this isn't the correct way to do things in a democratic society such as the United States. But then again, we are talking about LIBERAL educators, aren't we!?!
After being elected, Kelly Kohls very quickly figured out OSBA's nut and shell game. She refused to participate in it. Kohls then proceeded to help organize OSBLC which is quite serious about addressing the many pertinent issues facing today's public education.
I suggest everyone talk to neighbors, friends and family from other Ohio school district boards of education which may currently subscribe to OSBA's backward philosophy. Ask them to contact their respective boards of education in order to discuss the viability of OSBA vs. OSBLC, thus helping to ensure a future of higher accountability and greater transparancy in our Ohio public schools!!
Wouldn't it be great if OSBA/OSBLC was added to the public school's list of potential "controversial issues" for social studies current event discussions?
If our school community of pro-levy lovers (including our boro alumni and our youth union activists) were educated to the financial advantages to our children's future with our successful children's first budget, then we wouldn't have all this undermining of SURE hostile Springboro parents and irresponsible educators carrying on against our community as a whole, with these silly "teachers are victims" protests and disruptions in the orderly business public school board meetings, verbally attacking Springboro taxpayers who are generously financially supporting our school employees, and have been doing so for many years, in a most excellent manner. Where's the respect from the SEA toward their EMPLOYERS, the school district taxpayers?
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25416 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Should never be forever disregarded...however, should not be running around the district saying they are fiscal responsible. Circumstances happen, yes, unfortunate ones as well....but words have consequences......

Are you the one who keeps posting about the bankruptcy under a different screen name ? I still notice that nothing was actually answered in my response. Except for the question I asked about disregarding those who have filed bankruptcy or who have had businesses fail.

You agree unfortunate circumstances can happen, sometimes beyond the control of the individual. If we were all so smart and could have predicted the banking and housing collapse we would not be here on Topix or even living in Springboro (at least I wouldn't).Why? If we were so smart and did predict the collapse we would have begged and borrowed and then invested heavily in shorting the markets prior to the collapse and ended up rich beyond our wildest dreams. Yet here were are.

I agree words do have consequences,However I trust in subsequent actions to the utterances of the words more. Words matter but actions matter so much more. If someone campaigns that they will be fiscally responsible in the job , is elected and spends taxpayers money irresponsibly then we have a problem, their actions did not match up with their words. On the other hand if they run for office as being fiscally responsible and their actions in office show they are fiscally responsible, where is the disconnect you claim about words?

So actions matter more than words. The only question that needs to be answered is was the person in office true to their word of being fiscally responsible while executing the duties of the office.After all, she was elected to the school board not your home finance person.

So the actions matched up with the words as far as the elected position is concerned.

The rest is just standard operating procedure fodder from someone with a political agenda of whats commonly referred to as politics through personal destruction. Because there has been 3 years in office served since the bankruptcy and since there is no evidence of being fiscally irresponsible in office you attack the personal life from three years ago.
Great News

Piqua, OH

#25417 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Should never be forever disregarded...however, should not be running around the district saying they are fiscal responsible. Circumstances happen, yes, unfortunate ones as well....but words have consequences......
Indeed, words have consequences!

In 2008, when former school superintendent, Mr. Baker, told the 2008 board members (Don Miller, Mike Kruse, William Thomsen,
Craig Colston, Diane Trifaro) that in addition to the school renewal levy, NEW TAXES were being demanded, or there would be consequences, holding parents hostage over things like busing and activity fees, inquiring minds starting asking questions, refusing to accept Mr. Baker's one-sided opinion of his false budget crisis, and just said NO to increased taxes, and yes to renewal levy with no new taxes. But, instead of respecting the will of the people who voted for responsible spending for education, while living within our means, our former superintendents, Mr. Baker and Mr. Lolli, continued bullying and badgering and emotionally blackmailing Springboro taxpayers for completed unnecessary increased school taxes to meet the teachers union's demands for more money.
Thank goodness Springboro parents, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Rigano, and Mr. Petroni who "went running around the district" volunteering their time and expertise, educating their Springboro neighbors that there are TWO sides to every school levy request; and voters deserve to hear both sides: Fiscal responsibility VS Tax and Spend. Informed voters chose to believe the words of fiscal responsible education; And the consequences of those words resulted in the rejection of tax and spend words.
Actions speak louder than words; so Springboro taxpayers took action at the polls, repeating FIVE times the words NO NEW TAXES.
Words have consequences; It has now taken Springboro voters five failed levies and two school board elections to change the old OSBA indoctrination of tax and spend school district leaders to our new reform minded philosophy of fiscal responsibility.
Thank goodness we still have Springboro parents, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr. Rigano (who are now BOE representatives) still out there running around, and investing hours of volunteer time in board committee meetings, Educating Springboro that children
first budgeting works.
Words have consequences! Action speaks louder than words!
Kelly Kohls is committed to ensuring that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending!
Have you heard the great news?
It's Unanimous! School Board Adopts Children's First Budget!
Check out this website to learn why a Children's First Budget makes sense for teachers........
Please send this great news to everyone who cares about our school children and our community!
http://educatespringboro.wordpress.com/2013/0...
Really

Xenia, OH

#25418 Jun 27, 2013
Just Saulsome wrote:
<quoted text>
...
Springboro citizens, including our school students, are certainly educated enough to hear our founding fathers' "nod to God" as expressed in "The Constitution of the United States" .... its only keeper, the people.- George Washington, first President of our Great Nation!
...
So, why not lighthen up that burden of protecting our constitution
from being violated by those who are paying the fee required to attend the class.. with our hard earned money inscribed "in God we trust."
First, it is "In God We Trust" (all words capitalized, not just the "g" word).
Second, you of course realize that "In God We Trust" wasn't on our money until 1957?
It was made the US motto in 1956 replacing the unofficial motto: "E pluribus unum" or "Out of Many, One".
As far as God in the constitution consider the following taken from " http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html&q... ;
"It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States."
Don't forget the president who considered it "sacrilegious to put the name of God on money" was none other than Theodore Roosevelt (R).
Our founders knew what they were doing when they wrote the documents forming our country. Nothing should be "implied" just take the words as they were written and agreed to. They took great care in what was and was not included. To try and "fill in the blanks" or "find out what they mean" is an insult to our founding fathers.
I find it curious how some people take a 2,000 year old document, written in a different language, in a different country as literal gospel but say a document written 200 years ago in English in this country is up for interpretation.
Really??
parent

Girard, OH

#25419 Jun 27, 2013
The Next Day wrote:
First, I am a conservative and a Christian and don't particularly like unions though recognize they have a role in our society (perhaps with increased right to work laws, merit based pay, etc.). My guess, I am not that much different than many others in our area. But I have major problems with what 4/5's of the BOE is doing.
What about "separation of church and state" don't 4/5's of the BOE understand? Besides arguably being in violation of the BOE bylaw mentioned above, they are in violation of court-set precedents regarding this topic, they're only presenting their view of the constitution (why isn't there someone presenting the counter perspective that God didn't create or literally guide creation of the U.S. Constitution?), and in effect, are saying that the U.S. was only established for Christians. Remember, many of the Founding Fathers were not devout Christians. Some were, some weren't, some believed in a god but that man was in charge of his own fate - not given a defined fate by God, some believed in a hybrid of natural law and Christianity, etc. President Adams was even quoted as saying the U.S. was not founded on C
Also, what does this all mean for our neighbors and friends in Springboro who are not Christians? If you were them, wouldn't you feel less welcomed by what 4/5's of the BOE is trying to push?
I don't disagree with many of your comments. But as far as your belief that 4/5 of our board is "pushing their political belief system on our kids", why not apply this same standard to Springboro teachers? With full union support, Boro teachers go about liberalizing the minds of each and every one of Springboro's schoolchildren each and every school day of the year.

I have voted for and have supported Kelly, Jim and David on virtually every issue, especially their current position with the teachers, Maney, and the OEA.

By insisting the teachings of the Founding Fathers be brought into Springboro Schools, I believe Jim Rigano has his heart in the right place. I can state with 100% certainly that Jim Rigano has a solid understanding that the lion's share of this nation's original Founding Fathers came to these shores in order to escape either religious or political persecution in their respective Motherland.

Heated tooth-and-nail debates among our Founding Fathers were begun primarily by Thomas Jefferson, who could be looked upon as the first Ross Perot. These debates brought us the First Amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees among other things freedom of the press, freedom of speech and FREEDOM TO PRACTICE THE RELIGION OF ONE'S CHOICE.

What Jim Rigano is trying to do is not in any way a violation of our respective First Amendment rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights. Jim Rigano isn't for the implementation of a social studies curriculum in violation of the separation of church and state.(I believe very strongly that in all public institutions there must be a VERY clear separation between church and state.)
Jim Rigano has a wonderful intention.

Jim Rigano is all about the updating of Springboro's social studies curriculum not to emphasize "religion of the Founding Fathers", but rather to highlight / illustrate how and why Jefferson and the rest of our Founding Fathers debated (D-E-B-A-T-E-D) about freedom of religion, freedom of the press, among many other very important, heated issues they were forced to make decisions on. Each one of the debates and votes of our Founding Fathers had a unique place in moulding the future of the United States of America. Every citizen American citizen, whether they're native-born, or not, should have a solid understanding W-H-Y they have the right to freedom of religion, etc. In a nutshell, I believe this is exactly what Jim Rigano is trying to accomplish. And I fully support him in doing so.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25420 Jun 27, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you the one who keeps posting about the bankruptcy under a different screen name ? I still notice that nothing was actually answered in my response. Except for the question I asked about disregarding those who have filed bankruptcy or who have had businesses fail.
You agree unfortunate circumstances can happen, sometimes beyond the control of the individual. If we were all so smart and could have predicted the banking and housing collapse we would not be here on Topix or even living in Springboro (at least I wouldn't).Why? If we were so smart and did predict the collapse we would have begged and borrowed and then invested heavily in shorting the markets prior to the collapse and ended up rich beyond our wildest dreams. Yet here were are.
I agree words do have consequences,However I trust in subsequent actions to the utterances of the words more. Words matter but actions matter so much more. If someone campaigns that they will be fiscally responsible in the job , is elected and spends taxpayers money irresponsibly then we have a problem, their actions did not match up with their words. On the other hand if they run for office as being fiscally responsible and their actions in office show they are fiscally responsible, where is the disconnect you claim about words?
So actions matter more than words. The only question that needs to be answered is was the person in office true to their word of being fiscally responsible while executing the duties of the office.After all, she was elected to the school board not your home finance person.
So the actions matched up with the words as far as the elected position is concerned.
The rest is just standard operating procedure fodder from someone with a political agenda of whats commonly referred to as politics through personal destruction. Because there has been 3 years in office served since the bankruptcy and since there is no evidence of being fiscally irresponsible in office you attack the personal life from three years ago.
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25421 Jun 27, 2013
parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't disagree with many of your comments. But as far as your belief that 4/5 of our board is "pushing their political belief system on our kids", why not apply this same standard to Springboro teachers? With full union support, Boro teachers go about liberalizing the minds of each and every one of Springboro's schoolchildren each and every school day of the year.
I have voted for and have supported Kelly, Jim and David on virtually every issue, especially their current position with the teachers, Maney, and the OEA.
By insisting the teachings of the Founding Fathers be brought into Springboro Schools, I believe Jim Rigano has his heart in the right place. I can state with 100% certainly that Jim Rigano has a solid understanding that the lion's share of this nation's original Founding Fathers came to these shores in order to escape either religious or political persecution in their respective Motherland.
Heated tooth-and-nail debates among our Founding Fathers were begun primarily by Thomas Jefferson, who could be looked upon as the first Ross Perot. These debates brought us the First Amendment to the Constitution, which guarantees among other things freedom of the press, freedom of speech and FREEDOM TO PRACTICE THE RELIGION OF ONE'S CHOICE.
What Jim Rigano is trying to do is not in any way a violation of our respective First Amendment rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights. Jim Rigano isn't for the implementation of a social studies curriculum in violation of the separation of church and state.(I believe very strongly that in all public institutions there must be a VERY clear separation between church and state.)
Jim Rigano has a wonderful intention.
Jim Rigano is all about the updating of Springboro's social studies curriculum not to emphasize "religion of the Founding Fathers", but rather to highlight / illustrate how and why Jefferson and the rest of our Founding Fathers debated (D-E-B-A-T-E-D) about freedom of religion, freedom of the press, among many other very important, heated issues they were forced to make decisions on. Each one of the debates and votes of our Founding Fathers had a unique place in moulding the future of the United States of America. Every citizen American citizen, whether they're native-born, or not, should have a solid understanding W-H-Y they have the right to freedom of religion, etc. In a nutshell, I believe this is exactly what Jim Rigano is trying to accomplish. And I fully support him in doing so.
How do you explain the two groups that the BOE are bringing in to "educate us" and our children about the Constitution then? They are religious based organizations. One of them, The National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS) is a conservative, religious-themed constitutionalist organization, founded by Latter-Day Saint political writer Cleon Skousen......
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#25422 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
...you silly sheep! there you go again! trying to "bully the wool" over the eyes of the beholder....

Don't you know that responsible spenders are educated enough to know that being "fiscally responsible" is the dollar in the smart voters wallet, instead of in the local government's big Tax and Spend agenda. Just Say No to Increased Fire Levy Taxes!
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#25423 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you explain the two groups that the BOE are bringing in to "educate us" and our children about the Constitution then? They are religious based organizations. One of them, The National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS) is a conservative, religious-themed constitutionalist organization, founded by Latter-Day Saint political writer Cleon Skousen......
No explanation of our first amendment constitutional rights is necessary! Free speech explains itself as "free!"
That means freedom of speech for American citizens of all religious (or no religious) backgrounds. So, what's your
problem with Latter Day Saints?

The two groups are not coming in for the "establishment of religion" in the school building; and only those who choose to purchase the materials and attend the study will be "educated." Isn't this just exercising our first amendment constitutional "right of the people to peaceably assemble?"
Do you have a problem with these "two groups" (with whom you seem to disagree) having the right to come into the high school building to lead a study that is not approved by the narrow-minded social studies teacher Gail Dauber? Mrs. Dauber is employed in our taxpayer-funded high school building; but Mrs. Dauber doesn't OWN the high school building; and neither does she own the minds of Springboro citizens (including our school students and boro alumni).
So what disagreement do you have with our great freedoms enjoyed in this great nation by ALL American citizens, regardless of religious or non religious convictions?
Just Saulsome

Piqua, OH

#25424 Jun 27, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
First, it is "In God We Trust" (all words capitalized, not just the "g" word).
Second, you of course realize that "In God We Trust" wasn't on our money until 1957?
It was made the US motto in 1956 replacing the unofficial motto: "E pluribus unum" or "Out of Many, One".
As far as God in the constitution consider the following taken from " http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html&q... ;
"It has often been seen on the Internet that to find God in the Constitution, all one has to do is read it, and see how often the Framers used the words "God," or "Creator," "Jesus," or "Lord." Except for one notable instance, however, none of these words ever appears in the Constitution, neither the original nor in any of the Amendments. The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion. In fact, the original Constitution bars any religious test to hold any federal office in the United States."
Don't forget the president who considered it "sacrilegious to put the name of God on money" was none other than Theodore Roosevelt (R).
Our founders knew what they were doing when they wrote the documents forming our country. Nothing should be "implied" just take the words as they were written and agreed to. They took great care in what was and was not included. To try and "fill in the blanks" or "find out what they mean" is an insult to our founding fathers.
I find it curious how some people take a 2,000 year old document, written in a different language, in a different country as literal gospel but say a document written 200 years ago in English in this country is up for interpretation.
Really??
Oh Yes, Really! You Are The Most Wonderful Awesome Saulsome Of Them All With All Wonderful You Words Beginning With Capital Letters!

(Do You Feel Exalted Now?)
sheep

Springboro, OH

#25425 Jun 27, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
No explanation of our first amendment constitutional rights is necessary! Free speech explains itself as "free!"
That means freedom of speech for American citizens of all religious (or no religious) backgrounds. So, what's your
problem with Latter Day Saints?
The two groups are not coming in for the "establishment of religion" in the school building; and only those who choose to purchase the materials and attend the study will be "educated." Isn't this just exercising our first amendment constitutional "right of the people to peaceably assemble?"
Do you have a problem with these "two groups" (with whom you seem to disagree) having the right to come into the high school building to lead a study that is not approved by the narrow-minded social studies teacher Gail Dauber? Mrs. Dauber is employed in our taxpayer-funded high school building; but Mrs. Dauber doesn't OWN the high school building; and neither does she own the minds of Springboro citizens (including our school students and boro alumni).
So what disagreement do you have with our great freedoms enjoyed in this great nation by ALL American citizens, regardless of religious or non religious convictions?
Again, no one reads on this blog!! Just go off on these tangents like a bunch of crazy people.... Don't really have a problem at all with these groups coming in, as long as the "other side" is allowed to come in as well. We are trying to educate critical thinkers, right? How can you do that when only one side is presented???????
Just Saulsome

Piqua, OH

#25426 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, no one reads on this blog!! Just go off on these tangents like a bunch of crazy people.... Don't really have a problem at all with these groups coming in, as long as the "other side" is allowed to come in as well. We are trying to educate critical thinkers, right? How can you do that when only one side is presented???????
You silly sheep! The one-sided other side occupies Springboro High School's Social Studies Department! And where's the rule that says "the other side" can't enroll in the class, pay their fees, and get on with their "critical thinking....right???????

You will have to ask our one-sided only, my way, no other way
expert, Gail Dauber. Mrs. Dauber is our Springboro High School Social Studies "head of the class bully."
As Springboro citizens have seen recently in public school board meetings, Mrs. Dauber does know how to "do it all her way" by presenting only one side to our students who then throw up in our faces the narrow minded one sided view of "God has no place in this country."
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25427 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Being "fiscally responsible" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are fiscally responsible while destroying the civic pride and basic fabric of the community, then I'll take the alternative any day.
Are you the same person who has posted many many times complaining about others deflecting and avoiding answering the actual questions that were asked? Yet here you are moving the goal posts once again to suit your need to avoid answering and continuing to engage in politics of destruction. I am still awaiting your response to the outrageous claims of the 900k pawned off on the taxpayers. You avoided all of that discussion and moved on to some comment about how words have meanings and a rant trying to claim a personal finance problem somehow interfered with your public responsibilities.
I took the time to answer you and surprise surprise surprise you want to now jump the rail to other issues such as destroying the civic pride and the basic fabric of the community.

My first reaction (after laughing very hard), was that I have seen your type of poster on every message board I have ever been on throughout the years. Some would justifiably call you a troll, others a paid or volunteer political operative with an axe to grind. Both would be correct.

The pattern is the same. 1.Make an outrageous claim or personal attack 2. get called on it. 3 move the goalposts to somewhere else after being called on your outrageous claims. 4 repeat.

Lets take your latest claim to the extreme. Somehow fiscal responsibility contrary to your earlier proclamation is not now nor was it ever your real concern. By your own admission now everything else you have posted was just garbage. Your real concern now is civic pride and the basic fabric of the community.

So a community that has voted down so many levies in the past is now having its civic pride and fabric destroyed by fiscal responsibility? Are you serious?

And you post you support the alternative. So do you support fiscal irresponsibility?

Rather than going through the ordeal of you moving the goalposts once again,(while entertaining for a short time period it does get tiresome) lets just put the cards on the table.

Why don't you at least be honest and state your real purpose? You as an individual or the group you are supporting/representing want a new board that will return to the days of old. Spending all of the money you can wring out of the taxpayers pockets and putting the same old guard back into positions. Sorry in the eyes of this beholder the old ways will not work in the new economy.So be honest about what your true objective is and admit you will twist, slam, slander, attack, duck,dodge, create mountains out of molehills, and do whatever it takes to obtain your goal.
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#25428 Jun 27, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, no one reads on this blog!! Just go off on these tangents like a bunch of crazy people.... Don't really have a problem at all with these groups coming in, as long as the "other side" is allowed to come in as well. We are trying to educate critical thinkers, right? How can you do that when only one side is presented???????
Why are you posing if no one reads it?
if you want another group to come in with a purely secular take on the constitution fine. Rent the facilities and put on the seminar. Problem solved. Now if they deny you access to the facility then you have a legitimate concern. if they deny you admission there is a problem. molehills to mountains here we go again.
Boro Alumni

Maineville, OH

#25429 Jun 27, 2013
Just Saulsome wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh Yes, Really! You Are The Most Wonderful Awesome Saulsome Of Them All With All Wonderful You Words Beginning With Capital Letters!
(Do You Feel Exalted Now?)
I come to you with facts, you come back with gibberish. The capital letters were put that way by our legislature. Ask them if they feel exalted.

Really??

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