Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,281

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Find some reality

Lebanon, OH

#25242 Jun 17, 2013
Missing post wrote:
What happened to the post about median increases between teachers and taxpayers ?
I think it was 11% increase for teachers vs 1% for taxpayers since recession began. Where did it go?
Where did this information come from? Teachers pay up 11% since the recession began?
My math is rusty but that still looks like 11 times what the community is getting. Why are they going on strike?
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#25243 Jun 17, 2013
Here's the facts on Springboro teacher pay:

Last base pay increase was 2007/2008
Last step increases for Springboro teachers was 2010 while their insurance went up 5%
Insurance changed to 15/85 in 2010
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25246 Jun 18, 2013
This could be our collective future.

Some UNION-CONTROLLED SCHOOL BOARDS in Michigan are finding that revenue has not been keeping up with expenses, likely due to a lack of fiscal prudence and their INABILITY TO SAY "NO" TO THEIR UNION FRIENDS.

As a result, several school districts are on the brink of insolvency and they’ve stretched the patience of state officials to the breaking point.

The state House has passed legislation allowing the state superintendent and state treasurer to “dissolve” a school district if leaders fail to submit a deficit reduction plan or prove incapable of implementing such a plan. Dissolved districts would become part of neighboring districts.

That would seem like a fitting fate for districts like Saginaw Buena Vista, which had to close school for several days this spring due to its inability to meet payroll.

Responsible adults should be concerned about the effect that such poor management has on students. But the Michigan Education Association, the state’s largest teachers union, is worried about possible displacement of teachers.

The union wrote:

“…Republicans in the state House rammed through legislation late Thursday night that would dissolve the Buena Vista and Inkster school districts and leave employees in those dissolved districts without the right to a job in the receiving districts.”

Only unionized government employees think they have a right to a job. That’s not the way it works in the real world.

If a private business closes, should employees have a right to a job with a competitor? Of course not. That’s nonsense. But that’s the mindset of government employee unions.

The focus should be on the students and how best to meet their educational needs. Clearly the school employees and elected leaders in the affected districts weren’t getting the job done – otherwise we wouldn’t be reading about them.

Neither the Buena Vista nor the Inkster districts were models of academic success. Perhaps some of the teachers in those districts shouldn’t be in the profession in the first place.

But that doesn’t matter to MEA leaders. All they care about is their members’ privileges, and the dues those members pay when they are employed.

This is just another footnote in the long history of teacher union greed. But it goes a long way toward explaining how some schools got into their financial predicament in the first place. The unions have been dominant in Michigan public schools for decades, and they have nearly succeeded in sucking the financial life out of them.
PAY HAS GONE UP

Lebanon, OH

#25248 Jun 18, 2013
Lurker wrote:
Here's the facts on Springboro teacher pay:
Last base pay increase was 2007/2008
Last step increases for Springboro teachers was 2010 while their insurance went up 5%
Insurance changed to 15/85 in 2010
I wnet to the www.springboro.org Transparency Project and found the staff directory. If nobody has had a raise in five years how come all these people are making way more than they were in 2008?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25249 Jun 18, 2013
11.5% median income rise for TEACHERS 2008-2012

LESS than 1% median income rise for Springboro community 2008-2012

From Ohio Department of Education website under special reports, Misc category.
Let the Light Shine In

Piqua, OH

#25250 Jun 18, 2013
go to our Springboro Transparency Project and see for your self the data on pay and benefits. You can also go to the Ohio Department of Education (ODE) and see the data on Springboro Median Household income over this same period of time. Look at ODE, you will see that since 2008 the Springboro median household income (1.5 wage earners working 12 months) went up $1,500 (08'-12') in these 4 years. According to ODE the median Springboro Teacher salary went up $5,444 from 08'-12'. You may want to compare this to the data on the Springboro Transparency project for individual information.

Seventy eight thousand dollars ($78,000) per contract year is the top of the pay scale for teachers at Springboro, once a teacher reaches this salary plateau they are paid as high as it goes. The Springboro annual median household income (1.5 workers, working 12 months) is $62,000. Our State has a published step schedule but it ends lower than ours (Springboro) actually starts. This means that by State statute we pay more for a starting position at Springboro than the State step schedule pays at the end of 30 years of service.
Correction

Cincinnati, OH

#25251 Jun 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
ACT scoring raw scores or how many did my child get right?
An ACT score report includes scores for each of the four subject area tests (English, Mathematics, Reading, and Science) and all associated subscores (which are calculated separately).
The first step in calculating a score for a subject area test is to determine the raw score for that test. The raw score is equal to the number of questions answered correctly on that test (there is no penalty for incorrect answers). Then, the raw score converted to a scaled score between 1 and 36 using a metric that takes into account variations in difficulty among different test administrations.
Below is the percentage of correct answers for each subject and the associated scaled score .
Score English Math Reading Science Composite
36..........99.......... 99..........99..........99.... ......99
35..........99.......... 99.......... 99..........99..........99
34..........99.......... 99.......... 99..........99.......... 99
33..........97.......... 98.......... 97.......... 99..........99
32..........96.......... 97.......... 95.......... 98.......... 98
31.......... 94.......... 96.......... 93..........98.......... 97
30.......... 93.......... 94.......... 91.......... 96.......... 95
29.......... 91.......... 93.......... 87.......... 95..........93
28..........88.......... 91.......... 85.......... 93..........91
27.......... 85.......... 88.......... 82.......... 91.......... 87
26.......... 82.......... 84.......... 78.......... 88..........84
25.......... 78.......... 79.......... 75.......... 84.......... 79
24.......... 73.......... 74.......... 71.......... 77.......... 74
23.......... 68.......... 67.......... 66.......... 71.......... 68
22.......... 63.......... 61.......... 60.......... 63.......... 62
21.......... 57.......... 57.......... 54.......... 56.......... 55
20.......... 50.......... 52.......... 48..........47.......... 48
19.......... 43.......... 47.......... 42..........38.......... 41
18.......... 38.......... 41.......... 35.......... 31..........34
17.......... 33.......... 34.......... 30.......... 24..........28
16......... 29.......... 26.......... 25.......... 19..........21
15......... 24.......... 14.......... 19.......... 14..........16
14......... 18.......... 06.......... 15.......... 11..........11
13......... 14.......... 02.......... 10.......... 08..........06
12......... 11.......... 01.......... 06.......... 05..........03
11......... 09.......... 01.......... 03.......... 03..........01
10......... 04.......... 01.......... 01.......... 01..........01
According to the documents on the Transparency Project our high schoolers in 2011 scored an average of 24.5.
This puts us in solid mid 70% in all subjects, in other words a solid C.
The money for real academic scholarship dollars are in the 30's.
While we may outperform the state averages, this does not translate into real academic scholarship dollars for our children.
This is inaccurate. The chart posted is not of "percentage of correct answers for each subject and the associated raw score", but is the chart of the National Ranks for Test Scores and Composite Score taken directly from the ACT website at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html . If Springboro's average ACT score is 24.5 that means that the average student at Springboro scored better than 74% of all students who took the test. In the class of 2013, over 50 students scored a 30 or better which means that those students scored better than 96%-99% of all students who took the test. Please consult the ACT site at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html for more information.
LOL

Piqua, OH

#25252 Jun 18, 2013
Is it true that local news reports that Greedy Grigsby and her good old boy Lolli pop have launched another financial attack on our Springboro taxpayers?
Waste Watchers

Piqua, OH

#25253 Jun 18, 2013
LOL wrote:
Is it true that local news reports that Greedy Grigsby and her good old boy Lolli pop have launched another financial attack on our Springboro taxpayers?
Isn't this typical of the status quo "business as usual" tactics against our Springboro children's education money which are being launched throughout this school district by the parents and teachers of Springboro United for Responsible Education?
Where's the responsibiility in this waste of Springboro taxpayers money?
Both ways

Englewood, OH

#25254 Jun 18, 2013
LOL wrote:
Is it true that local news reports that Greedy Grigsby and her good old boy Lolli pop have launched another financial attack on our Springboro taxpayers?
Transparency works both ways my friend!
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#25255 Jun 18, 2013
Read court case. If even half the allegations are true, our board is in big trouble.
input

Girard, OH

#25256 Jun 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
This could be our collective future.
Some UNION-CONTROLLED SCHOOL BOARDS in Michigan are finding that revenue has not been keeping up with expenses, likely due to a lack of fiscal prudence and their INABILITY TO SAY "NO" TO THEIR UNION FRIENDS.
As a result, several school districts are on the brink of insolvency and they’ve stretched the patience of state officials to the breaking point.
The state House has passed legislation allowing the state superintendent and state treasurer to “dissolve” a school district if leaders fail to submit a deficit reduction plan or prove incapable of implementing such a plan. Dissolved districts would become part of neighboring districts.
That would seem like a fitting fate for districts like Saginaw Buena Vista, which had to close school for several days this spring due to its inability to meet payroll.
Responsible adults should be concerned about the effect that such poor management has on students. But the Michigan Education Association, the state’s largest teachers union, is worried about possible displacement of teachers.
The union wrote:
“…Republicans in the state House rammed through legislation late Thursday night that would dissolve the Buena Vista and Inkster school districts and leave employees in those dissolved districts without the right to a job in the receiving districts.”
Only unionized government employees think they have a right to a job. That’s not the way it works in the real world.
If a private business closes, should employees have a right to a job with a competitor? Of course not. That’s nonsense. But that’s the mindset of government employee unions.
The focus should be on the students and how best to meet their educational needs. Clearly the school employees and elected leaders in the affected districts weren’t getting the job done – otherwise we wouldn’t be reading about them.
Neither the Buena Vista nor the Inkster districts were models of academic success. Perhaps some of the teachers in those districts shouldn’t be in the profession in the first place.
But that doesn’t matter to MEA leaders. All they care about is their members’ privileges, and the dues those members pay when they are employed.
This is just another footnote in the long history of teacher union greed. But it goes a long way toward explaining how some schools got into their financial predicament in the first place. The unions have been dominant in Michigan public schools for decades, and they have nearly succeeded in sucking the financial life out of them.
I certainly don't disagree the premise of this point (the greed of teacher's unions) should be a central concern for all common sense taxpayers. However, dissolution / consolidation of school districts in certain areas of the country has everything to do with enrollment declines of school age children. This is likely to happen a lot in the former Rust Belt especially in communities that have failed to effectively respond to the closing or offshoring of businesses & manufacturers. Unlike most of Ohio, the population of N. Warren county continues to grow at a steady pace. So long as this trend continues we'll never have to think about district consolidation.

A money-saving strategy that's recently become somewhat popular in certain rural Ohio districts is two or more districts sharing the salary and time of one administrator, typically the district's treasurer.
No Way

Piqua, OH

#25257 Jun 18, 2013
Both ways wrote:
<quoted text>
Transparency works both ways my friend!
No Way to do Boro wrong the Right way, my friend.

And Springboro Parent Tammy Grigsby and former Springboro School Superintendent Gene Lolli are doing our Boro students wrong with their continuing vote for revenge against our school district taxpayers, costing taxpayers money that should be used for our children's future classroom education!
Springboro School District Voters generously support our school administrators, teachers, and all school employees, and ALL members of the school community should join with our community as a whole, working together, to ensure a quality education for our school children while living within our financial means. And what does Tammy Grigsby and Gene Lolli offer in return? Nothing but mean-spirited greed and need for revenge -- biting the very hands of their neighbors and Springboro taxpayers who so generously reach out to our schools, doing what's right for children's future.
Let the Light Shine In

Piqua, OH

#25258 Jun 18, 2013
input wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly don't disagree the premise of this point (the greed of teacher's unions) should be a central concern for all common sense taxpayers. However, dissolution / consolidation of school districts in certain areas of the country has everything to do with enrollment declines of school age children. This is likely to happen a lot in the former Rust Belt especially in communities that have failed to effectively respond to the closing or offshoring of businesses & manufacturers. Unlike most of Ohio, the population of N. Warren county continues to grow at a steady pace. So long as this trend continues we'll never have to think about district consolidation.
A money-saving strategy that's recently become somewhat popular in certain rural Ohio districts is two or more districts sharing the salary and time of one administrator, typically the district's treasurer.
A money-saving strategy that's becoming more and more popular in Springboro Schools District among Springboro Taxpayers is simply getting rid of Union politics in our children's classrooms, simply because it the right thing to do in the best interest of our school children. Of course, Springboro Taxpayers understand that everything that is right is not legal and everything that is legal is not right; so we just need to stand firm on Principles of our children first best interest; and fight against the former school principals and superintendents who are attacking our school tax dollars in Springboro. This too shall pass, with nothing lost but school revenue, that could have been put to much better use than legal fees.
Quiet Teacher

Girard, OH

#25259 Jun 18, 2013
Although I would love to comment on the recent teacher complaint, I will not.

As a Boro HS teacher with more than 15 years of experience, I fully support the School Board and in private, most of the teachers do as well.

A few teachers are attempting to hijack the District for selfish economic gain. We do not need another levy.
Running scared

Youngstown, OH

#25260 Jun 18, 2013
Waste Watchers wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't this typical of the status quo "business as usual" tactics against our Springboro children's education money which are being launched throughout this school district by the parents and teachers of Springboro United for Responsible Education?
Where's the responsibiility in this waste of Springboro taxpayers money?
Wasting taxpayers money? Seriously, how much are we wasting on Creatianism?? I am glad the community is finally seeing the sneaky antics of this board. Look out Kelly, this may make it a little harder for you to get re-elected. It is only a matter of time for "other" sneaky actions to come out from other board members. The Springboro community is finally going to start seeing the truth. Bye Bye Kelly.....
Still a C

Cleveland, OH

#25261 Jun 18, 2013
Correction wrote:
<quoted text>
This is inaccurate. The chart posted is not of "percentage of correct answers for each subject and the associated raw score", but is the chart of the National Ranks for Test Scores and Composite Score taken directly from the ACT website at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html . If Springboro's average ACT score is 24.5 that means that the average student at Springboro scored better than 74% of all students who took the test. In the class of 2013, over 50 students scored a 30 or better which means that those students scored better than 96%-99% of all students who took the test. Please consult the ACT site at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html for more information.
74% is still C- territory, hardly excellent with distinction now is it?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25262 Jun 18, 2013
Correction wrote:
<quoted text>
This is inaccurate. The chart posted is not of "percentage of correct answers for each subject and the associated raw score", but is the chart of the National Ranks for Test Scores and Composite Score taken directly from the ACT website at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html . If Springboro's average ACT score is 24.5 that means that the average student at Springboro scored better than 74% of all students who took the test. In the class of 2013, over 50 students scored a 30 or better which means that those students scored better than 96%-99% of all students who took the test. Please consult the ACT site at http://www.actstudent.org/scores/norms1.html for more information.
Try this one

http://mtmorrisschools.eaj.schoolfusion.us/mo...
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25263 Jun 18, 2013
Running scared wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasting taxpayers money? Seriously, how much are we wasting on Creatianism?? I am glad the community is finally seeing the sneaky antics of this board. Look out Kelly, this may make it a little harder for you to get re-elected. It is only a matter of time for "other" sneaky actions to come out from other board members. The Springboro community is finally going to start seeing the truth. Bye Bye Kelly.....
Bloviating red herring.

Show me anywhere in the board policy documents that states anything of the sort. Please copy and paste it from the board minutes to document your claim. Please copy and paste it from the school policy documents to substantiate your claim. Please copy and paste if from the curriculum that reveals the class on this subject in our schools and makes your claim valid.

I look forward to your earnest response.
Silly Season of Politics

Piqua, OH

#25264 Jun 18, 2013
Running scared wrote:
<quoted text>
Wasting taxpayers money? Seriously, how much are we wasting on Creatianism?? I am glad the community is finally seeing the sneaky antics of this board. Look out Kelly, this may make it a little harder for you to get re-elected. It is only a matter of time for "other" sneaky actions to come out from other board members. The Springboro community is finally going to start seeing the truth. Bye Bye Kelly.....
ok.. let's all play your silly game! First of all nothing is being wasted on creationism; because teaching creationism is not even on the table of discussion in the Springboro school board meetings.
The constitutional rights of free speech for Springboro Students to discuss all controversial issues is something worth fighting for; and if push comes to shove from the big-money ACLU lawyers, then those taxpayers who believe in protecting our student's freedom of speech are ready to "put our money where our students' mouths are" and say ...... let's bring it on!
Sometime, somehow, somewhere, common sense "critical thinking skills" development MUST be opened up in Springboro Schools so that our students' minds are NOT held captive by the narrow-minded tunnel vision of SEA union educators (as was demonstrated recently by Social Studies director Gail Dauber and school librarian Sarah Thornbury.)
Parents can only wonder if Sarah Thornbury allows our students opportunity of developing the necesssary critical thinking skills (which our world is much in need of and our world needs a lot of it) by providing library resources/books presenting both sides of "controversial issues." Does Sarah Thornbury work with a committee of teachers, parents and community members to gather input on the "diversity of the community" in efforts to represent
the community as a whole? The right time has come for public schools to allow students' rights of discussions, freely expressing that man-made global warming, evolution, and many other topics in our students' 21st century education, while recognizing these issues ARE controversial.
Why isn't Springboro the right place?

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