Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,560

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Hooray for Us

Piqua, OH

#24995 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never defended the OEA. In fact, I agree with you that this should be between Springboro's BOE and the SEA (or rather Springboro's teachers). But you'd be naive to think outside money is only coming in to benefit the union. I'm not a fan of what some unions do, like up in Strongsville, but the BOE in Springboro is rewriting about 75% of the contract all because one of the wealthiest school districts in the state wants to pride itself on being the poorest school district in the state.
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire....!

Guess what, Phil? Not only is Springboro School District one of the Wealthiest school districts in Ohio; Springboro School District is one of the most Educated school districts in Ohio!
Just being "wealthy" doesn't Excuse taxpayers from being responsible spenders and smart voters! Why waste your money paying increased taxes when it isn't even necessary?
The time should NEVER come when our local government leaders decide to "come out" with the declaration that it is now TIME to pay MORE taxes!
The time should NEVER come when our local government leaders tell its Citizens that the government knows better how to spend OUR money that "We The People" have earned and saved to take care of our financial responsibilites!
The Time will Never come for our government to FREE itself from its LOVE ADDICTION OF TAX AND SPEND....until,
We the people STOP feeding that addiction and vote NO NEW TAXES!
The time has come to tell Mr.Maney to "buck up" and feel the pain of living within our school district voters' new philosophy of "Children First Budgeting!"
Really

Piqua, OH

#24996 May 31, 2013
No OEA Indoctrination wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not take a break from your tired old mantra of bashing and badgering the "board." Your opinion on the proposed study for conversion school"possibility" is just as narrow-minded as that Dauber Indoctrination of our students that "God has no place in this country." Just Silly!
But your tired old mantra of bashing the OEA and every single teacher that has a comment you don't like is ok. Typical of the mindset on this site!
Reject Ritter Ramblings

Piqua, OH

#24997 May 31, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
You wouldn't simply naive but seriously uninformed. When Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act, it put in place a system whereby the government could shut down local schools based on national performance. Obama followed with Race to the Top, which offered assistance to states in exchange for shutting down underperforming schools. The combination of these two acts paved the way for privitazitation of our public school system.
This is the very essence of Big Government and Big Business joining forces to profit off our children's future. In the nearly fourty years since the charter movement began, the attention has shifted away from "smaller schools" to attacking union rights so that corporations can step in and buy out all the real estate. And for all their efforts, KIPP is the only private organization to show any promising results in the charter movement.
Meanwhile the majority of the Board has spent significant time and resources training other Board members from around the state on how to support the charter movement in their districts. If our schools were underperforming, or if the Board has consistently been blocked by the unions in their efforts to improve our school system, then I could understand their commitments to charter schools.
But instead of promoting anything in the realms of improving education, the Board has consistently promoted changes that support Big Business efforts across the US, including climate denial, creationism, guns in schools, and the privitazitation of our school system.
There is no way for any Springboro citizen, rather than those of the Bowman/Babb SURE mindset, to "understand" Christopher Ritter's commitment to these foolish ramblings of his on this blog!
There is no truth to his rambling accusations; just remember this wise warning: Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!
Really

Piqua, OH

#24998 May 31, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Without bothering to do the necessary due diligence required of such an action, it is hard to make that statement with any degree of confidence.
I could show you 2000 plus students that our school district has systematically ignored, perhaps they would be a student need.
I could show you highly intelligent children in our district who do not receive the challenges that would benefit them most because so many children in our district consume resources with special educational needs.
Needs?
We have plenty of them.
When the board was asked what the conversion school would be used for they did not have a reason. Ms. Kohls tried to come up with something but had nothing to back up any of her ideas with. Not a single other member of the board had a reason identified to support such a school - pathetic. I don't doubt we may have needs but it is pretty sorry that the board doesn't do their due diligence to figure out what those needs are PRIOR to spending money on whether or not we can afford it.
Phil

Erie, PA

#24999 May 31, 2013
Hooray for Us wrote:
<quoted text>
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire....!
Guess what, Phil? Not only is Springboro School District one of the Wealthiest school districts in Ohio; Springboro School District is one of the most Educated school districts in Ohio!
Just being "wealthy" doesn't Excuse taxpayers from being responsible spenders and smart voters! Why waste your money paying increased taxes when it isn't even necessary?
The time should NEVER come when our local government leaders decide to "come out" with the declaration that it is now TIME to pay MORE taxes!
The time should NEVER come when our local government leaders tell its Citizens that the government knows better how to spend OUR money that "We The People" have earned and saved to take care of our financial responsibilites!
The Time will Never come for our government to FREE itself from its LOVE ADDICTION OF TAX AND SPEND....until,
We the people STOP feeding that addiction and vote NO NEW TAXES!
The time has come to tell Mr.Maney to "buck up" and feel the pain of living within our school district voters' new philosophy of "Children First Budgeting!"
Per pupil spending, Springboro is one of the poorest. You do realize your taxes going to the school have actually decreased since 2007, right? I find it funny how Springboro, one of the wealthiest cities in Ohio like you agreed, feels that teachers are below the rest of the community and should earn less than the median income. I'd be very interested to know what the median income in the township is compared to those who voted for and against the levies.

And let's face it, there's a certain segment of the population that will vote down any tax they can simply because they can.
YES WE CAN

Piqua, OH

#25000 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
Per pupil spending, Springboro is one of the poorest. You do realize your taxes going to the school have actually decreased since 2007, right? I find it funny how Springboro, one of the wealthiest cities in Ohio like you agreed, feels that teachers are below the rest of the community and should earn less than the median income. I'd be very interested to know what the median income in the township is compared to those who voted for and against the levies.
And let's face it, there's a certain segment of the population that will vote down any tax they can simply because they can.
Voters in Springboro school district are smart enough to know
YES WE CAN financially commit ourselves to ensuring that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education, while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending! Springboro Loves Our Children First!

Does the Ohio Education Association Care About Springboro?

Why is the OEA standing in the way of negotiations in Springboro? Visit http://www.springboro.org for current negotiation information, the fiscal impact of accepting the OEA contract, and more. Stay informed, at http://www.springboro.org .
Just Curious

Piqua, OH

#25001 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
You're taking the quote of one teacher as a reason to vilify every teacher? I'd be willing to bet a vast majority of teachers in Springboro are Christian and very much think God has a place in this country. Just not in a public school where teachers cannot and should not advocate one religion over another.
Just Curious... what is your belief on the truth of Amendment One To The Constitution of the Unioted States of America. which states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petitionthe Government for a redress of grievances.
Phil

Erie, PA

#25002 May 31, 2013
YES WE CAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Voters in Springboro school district are smart enough to know
YES WE CAN financially commit ourselves to ensuring that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education, while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending! Springboro Loves Our Children First!
Does the Ohio Education Association Care About Springboro?
Why is the OEA standing in the way of negotiations in Springboro? Visit http://www.springboro.org for current negotiation information, the fiscal impact of accepting the OEA contract, and more. Stay informed, at http://www.springboro.org .
I never said I agreed 100% with the OEA's proposals. In fact, I'd bet they don't even expect to get everything they asked for. It's the same way with buying a house. The seller wants to get top dollar and the buyer wants to get a deal. Typically the seller lists higher than they want to get and the buyer bids lower than they want to spend. In the end hopefully everyone's happy.

I don't agree with the SEA wanting to revert back to 90/10 for healthcare. I don't agree with the SEA wanting step credit for the last two years on the salary schedule. But I also don't agree with the BOE wanting to arbitrarily set pay for individual teachers when it is impossible to do so fairly.

Also, would it surprise you to find out the BOE's numbers are wrong in their explanation in the financial impact of the SEA contract? Would you be surprised to learn they included teachers who are retiring and also some teachers multiple times to get their figure for the amount of pay increase the SEA asked for? There are 34 teachers taking early retirement this year. Replacement teachers will cost half what those current teachers make. I'll let you figure out how much that inflates the BOE's numbers.
Phil

Erie, PA

#25003 May 31, 2013
Just Curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Curious... what is your belief on the truth of Amendment One To The Constitution of the Unioted States of America. which states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petitionthe Government for a redress of grievances.
I agree with it 100%. What's your point?

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#25004 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
I don't agree with the SEA wanting to revert back to 90/10 for healthcare. I don't agree with the SEA wanting step credit for the last two years on the salary schedule. But I also don't agree with the BOE wanting to arbitrarily set pay for individual teachers when it is impossible to do so fairly.
Thanks Phil, I really appreciate your perspective. This message board is incredibly divisive, which makes it impossible to agree and disagree with proposals from either side. That's the primary reason why I transcribed the entire contract on RapGenius, so that we could focus on each of the proposals and better understand their impact on our local community.

http://rapgenius.com/albums/Springboro-board-...

It sounds like you know a little about the proposals. I would love it if you could let me know what you think of my efforts thus far!
Freedom of speech

Girard, OH

#25005 May 31, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Phil, I really appreciate your perspective. This message board is incredibly divisive, which makes it impossible to agree and disagree with proposals from either side. That's the primary reason why I transcribed the entire contract on RapGenius, so that we could focus on each of the proposals and better understand their impact on our local community.
http://rapgenius.com/albums/Springboro-board-...
It sounds like you know a little about the proposals. I would love it if you could let me know what you think of my efforts thus far!
How does rapgenius work? What do the percentages mean by each section?

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#25006 May 31, 2013
Freedom of speech wrote:
How does rapgenius work? What do the percentages mean by each section?
The goal is to crowdsource a description of the changes that both sides are proposing. When you submit a comment, the community can thumb it up or down, and the most agreed upon get added to the description.

The percentages that I believe you're referring to are the percentage of descriptions that have been added to the document. This is only viewable when you're logged in, but helps to determine how much of the document contains viewer descriptions.
Phil

Erie, PA

#25007 May 31, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Phil, I really appreciate your perspective. This message board is incredibly divisive, which makes it impossible to agree and disagree with proposals from either side. That's the primary reason why I transcribed the entire contract on RapGenius, so that we could focus on each of the proposals and better understand their impact on our local community.
http://rapgenius.com/albums/Springboro-board-...
It sounds like you know a little about the proposals. I would love it if you could let me know what you think of my efforts thus far!
I have looked at it a bit. I like the idea and it's nice to see side by side what each side is offering, wants to add and wants to remove. Sadly, it looks like it's the OEA vs Tea Party in Springboro and both sides want to make an example out of the other. In that scenario, everyone loses. Students, teachers, parents, home owners...everybody. Well, the lawyers might win.

I'm hoping the SEA proposes basically the same contract language that's been in place the past few years with possibly the request to bump up the base pay 2-3 percentage points over the next few years. Maybe reinstate steps in the salary scale for a few years if insurance is increased to 80/20 or 75/25. I'm not sure how the numbers would work out but that's not asking for much.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25008 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with it 100%. What's your point?
No Church of England in America.

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#25009 May 31, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
I have looked at it a bit. I like the idea and it's nice to see side by side what each side is offering, wants to add and wants to remove. Sadly, it looks like it's the OEA vs Tea Party in Springboro and both sides want to make an example out of the other. In that scenario, everyone loses. Students, teachers, parents, home owners...everybody. Well, the lawyers might win.
I'm hoping the SEA proposes basically the same contract language that's been in place the past few years with possibly the request to bump up the base pay 2-3 percentage points over the next few years. Maybe reinstate steps in the salary scale for a few years if insurance is increased to 80/20 or 75/25. I'm not sure how the numbers would work out but that's not asking for much.
You're calling it like I see it, Phil. OEA vs Tea Party. And to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with that if we weren't involved with a winner takes all death match. The proposed changes I see coming from the Board are quite radical, and that is where my frustration lies, not at the fact that someone is proposing radical change, but that we only have one open to choose from. Why isn't it possible for someone from the community to propose a radical change like open government?

Here's a piece I had published in the Huffington Post. I wrote it to appeal to their readership, but I would much rather have an open conversation where we can pick and choose the changes we want, and of course provide a few changes of our own. From what I read in researching this piece, there's a lot of options to explore with the "smaller schools" movement, but not when it's being guided by a profit motive. The conversation needs to be open to the community, or else were just going to end up with a new group of people trying to get their pet projects passed with taxpayer support.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news-genius/new...
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25010 Jun 1, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
You're calling it like I see it, Phil. OEA vs Tea Party. And to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with that if we weren't involved with a winner takes all death match. The proposed changes I see coming from the Board are quite radical, and that is where my frustration lies, not at the fact that someone is proposing radical change, but that we only have one open to choose from. Why isn't it possible for someone from the community to propose a radical change like open government?
Here's a piece I had published in the Huffington Post. I wrote it to appeal to their readership, but I would much rather have an open conversation where we can pick and choose the changes we want, and of course provide a few changes of our own. From what I read in researching this piece, there's a lot of options to explore with the "smaller schools" movement, but not when it's being guided by a profit motive. The conversation needs to be open to the community, or else were just going to end up with a new group of people trying to get their pet projects passed with taxpayer support.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news-genius/new...
This is more like the OEA vs the wallets of taxpaying Springboro community members.

Radical change?

Aside from your standard left wing canard, what is radical about anything in this contract proposal?

Have any of the membership of the SEA actually read the contract?

Are the members of the SEA allowing the Ohio Education Association to think for them?

The Board of Education put forward both contracts on the Transparency Project located on the school district website. Let's see if the union files suit against you.

www.springboro.org

And finally the evil "profit motive", you are aware that the only reason you are employed by anyone is that they are making a profit at what they are doing.

No profit, no jobs.

No jobs, no taxpayers.

No taxpayers, then what?
YES WE CAN

Piqua, OH

#25011 Jun 1, 2013
Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
Per pupil spending, Springboro is one of the poorest. You do realize your taxes going to the school have actually decreased since 2007, right? I find it funny how Springboro, one of the wealthiest cities in Ohio like you agreed, feels that teachers are below the rest of the community and should earn less than the median income. I'd be very interested to know what the median income in the township is compared to those who voted for and against the levies.
And let's face it, there's a certain segment of the population that will vote down any tax they can simply because they can.
YES WE CAN generate enough revenue from the wealth of property value in this school district to ensure that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education, while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending.
Before Dr. Kohls came on board in 2010, our five school board members and school staff strongly supported the OSBA way of emotionally blackmailing for dollars, by presenting to Taxpayers a "false budget crisis" in order to severely mislead Springboro Taxpayers into believing that our district was so "poor" that new textbooks (among other necessary services to our children's classrooms) could not be provided to our students without a continuous stream of NEW levies.
The OSBA plan to raise taxes, which was promoted by the BOE majority before 2010 FAILED five times! During these levy seasons, under the leadership of former school administrators, the Springboro Schools Administrative Staff continued receiving pay raises for themselves, during which time they were creating "job insecurity" for our kid's classroom teachers!
Finally, in 2011, taxpayers elected the new philosophy (Reform
Budgets;Levy Alternatives) of our reform-minded "Children First Budgeting" school board candidates OVER the status quo OSBA indoctrinated leadership mindset.
It's true that "Children First" is a new way of "critical thinking" skills of our reform-minded BOE majority; but our elected officials got right to work doing what they said they would do during their school board campaign, IF elected.
And our budget/finance committee May 23 presentation of our five-year forecast proves that children first budgeting IS working!
Our Children First Budgeting ensures a quality classroom education for our school children, job security with great wages and benefits for our teachers with safe and comfortable working conditions! So WHY does the OEA want to take all this success from our good Springboro teachers?
YES WE CAN

Piqua, OH

#25012 Jun 1, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
You're calling it like I see it, Phil. OEA vs Tea Party. And to be honest, I wouldn't have a problem with that if we weren't involved with a winner takes all death match. The proposed changes I see coming from the Board are quite radical, and that is where my frustration lies, not at the fact that someone is proposing radical change, but that we only have one open to choose from. Why isn't it possible for someone from the community to propose a radical change like open government?
Here's a piece I had published in the Huffington Post. I wrote it to appeal to their readership, but I would much rather have an open conversation where we can pick and choose the changes we want, and of course provide a few changes of our own. From what I read in researching this piece, there's a lot of options to explore with the "smaller schools" movement, but not when it's being guided by a profit motive. The conversation needs to be open to the community, or else were just going to end up with a new group of people trying to get their pet projects passed with taxpayer support.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news-genius/new...
...pick and choose the changes WE want...?

Springboro Parents and taxpaying homeowners have already chosen the change from status quo OEA indoctrination to our new philosophy of our reform-minded Children First Budgeting BOE majority members. Springboro parents including Lisa Babb, David Bowman, and Christopher Ritter just refuse to accept the "will of the people" as voiced in the November 2011 free election. Lisa Babb and her Babb for Boro campaign supporters have continued
their campaign of personal destruction against our elected officials with whom they disagree with spending our school tax dollars on our children first. The OEA/SEA does NOT own our Springboro children and the OEA/SEA does NOT own Springboro homeowners "open wallets" to "pick and choose" what it is
that the union masters WANT to increase the OEA membership of teachers in Ohio (earning big salaries and paying BIG union dues to further advance the big labor union's liberal political agenda).
YES WE CAN JUST SAY NO TO OEA INDOCTRINATION!

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#25014 Jun 1, 2013
YES WE CAN wrote:
<quoted text>
...pick and choose the changes WE want...?
Springboro Parents and taxpaying homeowners have already chosen the change from status quo OEA indoctrination to our new philosophy of our reform-minded Children First Budgeting BOE majority members.
When I first heard the debate on Fox News about the rise of women as the primary bread winners, I wasn't surprised to hear them talking about the "science of male dominance," and the negative impact these changes will have on traditional marriages, I thought of all the other seemingly impossible debates that have since been turned into actual legislation, including climate denial, creationism, and guns in schools. How would any of these ridiculous subjects actually make it on to the agenda of our school board?

The answer is money. People get paid to sit down with our elected leaders in order to construct legislation for the benefit of wealthy individuals whose only interest is in their profit margin. Think tanks are tapped to devise crafty slogans and talking points which they spread across the blogosphere and hold meetups to indoctrinate frustrated citizens into their radicalized agenda.

While at first, I thought all of this was Big Government Big Business in action on the national level, but lately I have seen these same frustrated citizens in our local community spreading their radicalized agenda to the detriment of our school system. That is the influence which outside money has on our local politics, whereby a private billionaire not only has the means of affording his own personal legislator, but access to a digital network which divides local communities, drives away those who dislike partisan politics, and emboldening disgruntled residents to make choices that harm their futures and the futures of the their communities.

Welcome to the new Kingdom of Serfdom, where the Kings whom our Founding Fathers deposed have risen once again to claim their rights to our public lands. You may believe that their kingdoms provide such wealth and bounty directly from the hand of God, but we the people know our Democratic Republic is under threat from more wealth than any kings from ages past could hope to acquire.

What we don't know is that Open Government takes back the power of governance from our Corporate Kings and places it back in the hands of the people, to like or dislike, or recommend proposals that we can all discuss and share. This is the new model of Democracy in America, whether your Corporate Sponsors like it or not.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#25015 Jun 1, 2013
And now back on topic

From a newspaper article regarding the implications for teachers that were on strike in Strongsville.

"The teachers have until May 7 to sign up for COBRA if they want coverage, according to the school district. But under COBRA rules, to join now, the teachers would also have to pay retroactive premiums for March and April.

The cost for COBRA coverage is about $1,670 per month for a family.

The looming financial impact has led to widespread speculation that some teachers will cross the picket line and return to work "

Interesting article regarding problems with striking if the other side does not back down soon enough.

The teacher's have voted to authorize the OEA to strike whenever they see fit.

The OEA will not be the ones going without insurance, or making the $1670 per month payment, or making the retroactive two months payments of $3540 to get current. All told that would be $5210 paid out when the teachers are not collecting a paycheck.

No worries, the OEA will tell you it will all be worth it in the end. The OEA does not feel your pain, they continue to get paid, continue to enjoy insurance coverage, and return home each night secure knowing you are fighting the good fight for their sake.

One simply needs to ask an Armco employee how their year long strike worked out for them.

Did they get enough to make up for the lost wages, the lack of insurance coverage, the financial strain and uncertainty, the humiliation of walking a picket line day in and day out after the novelty wore off, the depletion of savings and assets, the sliding credit score, the rising balances on credit cards, the mounting interest payments on those credit cards each month, the neglected maintenance on assets and health that had to be put off, the added stress put upon relationships?

The answer to the above is no, it never does.

The teachers are not striking because they have unsafe working conditions that cause the death of 100s each year.

Or because working hours are too long.(185 days, 1341 hours per year)

Or are horribly underpaid for the job that they chose.($30 -$75/hour)

Or because they saw their paychecks reduced or lost entirely since 2008.(Ask an ex GM employee if they would like to be making the same salary they enjoyed in 2008)

Or health insurance with a 1990's deductible.($100/single-$300/f amily)

Or doctor visits ($20)

Or vision insurance coverage.(They already have that)

Or dental insurance coverage.(They already have that)

Or life insurance coverage.($50,000, most private employers only carry $15,000 to cover the cost of funeral expenses)

Or limits on health coverage.(None, unlimited lifetime maximum, see what your plan has)

Instead of negotiating in a real world sense, the teachers want to shift their monthly contributions of their gold plated Cadillac program back onto the taxpayers. They want the taxpayer to pay more for them.

These are the same taxpayers who are now supporting their own healthcare costs in an unsubsidized fashion.

The movement from 1990's style health insurance to High Deductible Health Plans has picked up considerable steam since 2010. Growth in this area has risen from 6%- 21% as private employers attempt to maintain coverage without going broke. Higher deductibles are defined by deductibles greater than $1000 (that is the bottom end, ranging upwards towards $10,000)

Asking the taxpayer to fund better programs than they themselves are enjoying once again demonstrates the economic tone deafness of the OEA.

The more people know the less they like this situation

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