Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31879 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Not Surprising At All

Piqua, OH

#24834 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it was Mr. Petrey who gave the promotion and asked for her services in the central office.
Mr. Petrey suffers from Tax and Spend Addiction withdrawal
pains; struggling to resist that one more quick fix of easy new levy money. Like all school superintendents, he is indoctrinated by the OSBA philosophy that the BOE should do what he tells them to do, instead of the other way around.
Let's pray for him to stand strong against this beast that seeks to pull all good men back into the collective clutches of status quo "business as usual."
sheep

Springboro, OH

#24835 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Reading my morning copy of the Dayton Daily I note that Mr. Budd missed the point of the policy proposal being discussed regarding controversial issues.
Little did anyone know that the policy dealing with controversial issues that arise in the classroom would itself be controversial.
The main crux of the policy is to require teachers to present both sides of an issue to the students when they arise in the course of normal classroom activities.
The policy in NO way, shape, or form advocates the teaching of creationism any more than it promotes abortion. It simply requires teachers to not advocate one side over the other, but to present both sides of an issue to the children
The list of topics the board feels would benefit from a free and open discourse of ideas from both sides of an issue include:
sex education
legalization of drugs
evolution/creationism
pro-life/abortion
contraception/abstinence
conservatism/liberalism
politics
gun rights
global warming
global cooling
climate change
sustainable development
Who but the union and its supporters would have a problem with both sides of an issue being presented for debate and discussion?
As anyone who has lived a longer life, their are seldom issues that present themselves in strictly black and white terms. Life is filled with the grey area which makes it interesting. Teaching our children to begin the process of analyzing and interpreting various points and counterpoints in presentations will make them more confident in their ability to understand life in general.
ONe final side note is the fact Mr. Budd failed to mention the most salient point of the night. The notice given by the Budget and Finance Committee that it would support a renewal levy in November seems to have been lost in the psuedo issue described above.
Too bad, because that was really the big news of the night.
Just because the "psuedo" issue as you describe is no issue for you - it can be for others. You always seem to miss that aspect of things in your arguments. Others may have a different opinion than yours. I know - novel concept.

So you support the big news of the night? That would be big news that you support a levy. Don't you know that even a renewal levy...is taxes?
Not Surprising At All

Piqua, OH

#24836 May 24, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
With the BOE's blessing of course. Nice deflection though. I feel sorry for Mr. Petrey. The BOE is running out of scapegoats....he will probably be next....
I hardly think Mr. Petrey deserves a Pity Party.
Mr. Petrey accepted an offer to work in our school district only on his terms of a five year contract at $130,000 yr/salary.
Mr. Petrey knew that Springboro Taxpayers were looking for more than just a "cookie cutter" superintendent to settle into the comforts of an "affluent" community and continue "business as usual." He was well aware of our school district's new philosophy of CHILDREN FIRST and he knew that our school district was not under the indoctrination of the OSBA philosophy of running a continuous stream of school levies to increase union employees pay and benefits.
I think Mr. Petrey weighed all these things in his mind; and wanted the challenge of the high expectation that Springboro taxpayers demand of our school employees. But, can he stand strong against the pull of unnecessary evil force of union
against him? If not, then what's the big deal IF he chooses to find an easier job in another "business as usual" school district?
Springboro Taxpayers are looking for a few good men and women that are good and strong educators who will stand for what is right; instead of falling in line with whatever is "popular."
Read My Lips

Piqua, OH

#24837 May 24, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because the "psuedo" issue as you describe is no issue for you - it can be for others. You always seem to miss that aspect of things in your arguments. Others may have a different opinion than yours. I know - novel concept.
So you support the big news of the night? That would be big news that you support a levy. Don't you know that even a renewal levy...is taxes?
Don't be silly!

Of course we know that even a renewal levy is enough revenue to provide a quality classroom education for our children, and job security with generous salaries and benefits for our school employees...and NO NEW TAXES.
What's Not To Celebrate?

Why the gloom and doom of the SURE activists?

Why should our successful children first budgeting BOE elected officials be "challenged" by Springboro parent David Bowman to prove his "ignorance" wrong as he demanded in public meeting last night? What's up with that?

And why should Springboro taxpayers be "threatened" by the Springboro United for Responsible Education activists that they will cause much more "division" in our schools and neighborhoods
IF the SEA doesn't get their big money demands met. Where's the responsible education in those threats?
Mother Dearest

Piqua, OH

#24838 May 24, 2013
The Scoffer wrote:
<quoted text>
No way does SEA pay David Bowman; Mr. Bowman attacks his neighbors for the SURE pleasure of being biggest bully on the block!
(or in the board room)
lol....Oh for SURE, Mr. B...

hand over the red ribbon of "biggest bully" to the "queen
of mean" in the board room, Springboro parent, Nimisha Patel.
Amazing

Dayton, OH

#24839 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Reading my morning copy of the Dayton Daily I note that Mr. Budd missed the point of the policy proposal being discussed regarding controversial issues.
Little did anyone know that the policy dealing with controversial issues that arise in the classroom would itself be controversial.
The main crux of the policy is to require teachers to present both sides of an issue to the students when they arise in the course of normal classroom activities.
The policy in NO way, shape, or form advocates the teaching of creationism any more than it promotes abortion. It simply requires teachers to not advocate one side over the other, but to present both sides of an issue to the children
The list of topics the board feels would benefit from a free and open discourse of ideas from both sides of an issue include:
sex education
legalization of drugs
evolution/creationism
pro-life/abortion
contraception/abstinence
conservatism/liberalism
politics
gun rights
global warming
global cooling
climate change
sustainable development
Who but the union and its supporters would have a problem with both sides of an issue being presented for debate and discussion?
As anyone who has lived a longer life, their are seldom issues that present themselves in strictly black and white terms. Life is filled with the grey area which makes it interesting. Teaching our children to begin the process of analyzing and interpreting various points and counterpoints in presentations will make them more confident in their ability to understand life in general.
ONe final side note is the fact Mr. Budd failed to mention the most salient point of the night. The notice given by the Budget and Finance Committee that it would support a renewal levy in November seems to have been lost in the psuedo issue described above.
Too bad, because that was really the big news of the night.
Just shows the disconnect BOE has with HS. All those topics were taught and debated in Contemporary Issues course that they had cancelled!!!
Really

Dayton, OH

#24840 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it was Mr. Petrey who gave the promotion and asked for her services in the central office.
Who does Mr. Petrey work for? I thought it was the BOE. I guess he running rogue.
Get Real

Dayton, OH

#24841 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Their peers would be the best source for that information. Those that teach the next level after someone else can best tell you how well or how poorly prepared students from different teachers come to them.
Can you name any bad ones? Certainly since your just watching there must be some good ones and bad ones that you have watched.
Just Obvious

Cincinnati, OH

#24842 May 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
And now back to the children
2000 plus children in our district are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding today.
Where is the union on that single salient point?
The union is not producing the results for which we, the taxpayers, are funding them to produce.
An 80% failure rate in the junior high on the math section of the Ohio Achievement Assessment tests that has been ongoing for as long as Ms. Cook has been principal.
Ms Cook's response in the face of a bulge in student population hitting her school was to reduce instruction time for each child.
She proclaimed it as a great thing that she got the union to agree to teach roughly 30 more children a day by reducing instruction time from 48 minutes a class to 42 minutes per class.
The 80% of the children are receiving a D or F and Ms. Cook and the union's solution is to reduce classroom instruction time.
How much did 6 minutes per day x 180 days = 1080 minutes or 18 hours
At the old 48 minute classes that amounts to 22.5 FEWER days of instruction
in a class where 80% of the kids receive a D or F.
22.5 days is roughly one month of school LESS on a subject that sees 80% if the children receive a D or F.
Ms Cook was lauded for her uncanny ability to cheat the children for the benefit of the union members.
Ms. Cook did not reallocate her resources to drop junior high "electives" and move them into defined areas of need in the core courses of math and english where overwhelming numbers of children were struggling.
No, Ms Cook's response was to protect union jobs in areas that offered scant educational return rather than opt to strongly support student achievement.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
How much Creationism is on this test? I really don't want to lose focus on the 2000 students. Is the BOE telling us that learning about Creationism will improve test scores?
Performance Review

Piqua, OH

#24843 May 24, 2013
Read My Lips wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't be silly!
Of course we know that even a renewal levy is enough revenue to provide a quality classroom education for our children, and job security with generous salaries and benefits for our school employees...and NO NEW TAXES.
What's Not To Celebrate?
Why the gloom and doom of the SURE activists?
Why should our successful children first budgeting BOE elected officials be "challenged" by Springboro parent David Bowman to prove his "ignorance" wrong as he demanded in public meeting last night? What's up with that?
And why should Springboro taxpayers be "threatened" by the Springboro United for Responsible Education activists that they will cause much more "division" in our schools and neighborhoods
IF the SEA doesn't get their big money demands met. Where's the responsible education in those threats?
The real issue for SURE was, once again, the pre-arranged "false crisis" created by David Bowman, Sheri Malone, Nimisha Patel, Lynn Greenberg, and Stephanie Bindemann. One by one they stood up to project proclaimation to the parents on the board, that only the SURE parents were smart enough to manage "their schools" AND only Dr. Malone was qualified to be high school principal. After all, who needs anything more? Oh yeah, it's always something more, as Tiffany Carlisle pleaded for just a "little more" for the teachers, even just a little bit, please, please, just a few more crumbs off the tables of the wealthy taxpayers.
On the more positive side, it does appear that potty-mouth mom has got religion from pastor suzanne and cleaned up her "worst of the class" act; delivering a nice little church story that was clean enough to serve up with a nice cup of tea to "real housewives"
down home in the boro.(Be sure to catch the re-run on TV broadcast).
Just Fundamental

Piqua, OH

#24844 May 24, 2013
Just Obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
How much Creationism is on this test? I really don't want to lose focus on the 2000 students. Is the BOE telling us that learning about Creationism will improve test scores?
The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul...If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State!
-Harry Truman 33rd U.S. President
Just Obvious

Cincinnati, OH

#24845 May 25, 2013
Just Fundamental wrote:
<quoted text>
The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul...If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State!
-Harry Truman 33rd U.S. President
Is there a section on Harry Truman quotes on these tests? Is that how teaching Creationsim will improve the test scores of 2000 students?
Just Saulsome

Piqua, OH

#24846 May 25, 2013
Just Obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there a section on Harry Truman quotes on these tests? Is that how teaching Creationsim will improve the test scores of 2000 students?
Of course not, you silly goose!(Didn't you hear one of Mr. Malone's brightest high school students "testify" that "God Has No Place in this Country?"

Don't you know the Saul Alinsky Union Rules for Radicals book of Creationism for public schools?
To the union, education is not about improving student's test scores; it's all about the MONEY and bullying for more control and power, keeping our kids individual highest achievements "left behind" in old outdated "collective bargaining laws" granting our teachers the right to "walk out on our kids" if taxpayers don't "cave in" to the emotional blackmailing of the union masters.

Saul Alinsky states in the front of his book: Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical; from all our legends, mythology, and histroy (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and histroy begins--or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and di it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom---Lucifer.
No OEA Indoctrination

Piqua, OH

#24847 May 25, 2013
The OEA members are some of the worst people we will ever have to deal with as to radical social behavior; because to the OEA radicals they are at war with the taxpayers.
They have the destruction of America in their minds and they are terrible people because their ideology makes them corrosive. They openly use children to execute their maniacal plans for social progressive changes at the expense of society, and this defines their essence. Wars are won by taking away from the other side the will to continue fighting. The OEA attacks them directly hoping to rob them of their will to stand opposed to the unionís progressive agenda.

Nothing makes a citizen more selfish than socially equitable communitarianism; once a fellow's enjoying the fruits of government health care and all the rest, he couldn't give a hoot about the general societal interest; he's got his, and if it's going to bankrupt the state a generation hence, well, as long as they can keep the checks coming till he's dead, it's fine by him. "Social democracy" is, it turns out, explicitly anti-social" (Mark Steyn)
Listen Up

Piqua, OH

#24848 May 25, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Who does Mr. Petrey work for? I thought it was the BOE. I guess he running rogue.
For S-U-R-E, Mr. Petrey thinks he works for Principal Ron's Kids.

Remember Mr. Petrey reporting to Springboro Taxpayers that he had held a meeting (in presidential terms, guess that would be a Donut Summit) with Principal Ron's Kids;

it appears that the highest paid school superintendent ever in this district needed some professional "advice" from Ron's Kids on what to do! oh, what to do! with this responsibility of the superintendent to seek out and hire a qualified educator to employee as SHS building principal/manager!

Recently, Mr. Petrey reported to the school district taxpayers that it would take at least THREE "inexperienced" educators to fill the "donut hole" that Principal Ron's retirement will "create." And Mr. Petrey says that he was amazed at the topics that these students wanted to talk about as he spent about three hours conducting his "student survey" to find out exactly "what level of service" that Principal Ron's kids wanted Springboro Taxpayers to pay for.

Here are just a few results of the "Donut Summit" survey....
Prepare to be A-M-A-Z-E-D! For S-U-R-E, Ron's Kids do say the darndest things!

First, can you believe that most of the kids wanted to keep Principal Ron? A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

You see, out of the 1563 students enrolled at SHS, 451 students took the time to attend the "Donut Summit" and help the Superintendent with his Survey to learn the desired characteristics in a New Principal. Out of these 451 students, answering survey questions, 429 of these students (ages 14-17) voted the Number One thing desired in a principal is:

"listen to student ideas and suggestions."

Listen Up, Taxpayers! Ron's Kids want MORE for S-U-R-E!

Ron's Kids do NOT want Mr. Petrey to hire a High School Principal who will:
-CHALLENGE FACULTY TO HOLD ALL STUDENTS ACCOUNTABLE

Ron's Kids do NOT want Mr. Petrey to hire a High School Principal who will:
COMMUNICATE THE PROGRAMS AND POLICIES IN PLACE TO ENCOURAGE ALL STUDENTS TO REALIZE SUCCESS

Ron's Kids do NOT want Mr. Petrey to hire a High School Principal who will:
IMPLEMENT PRACTICES TO HOLD THE SCHOOL ACCOUNTABLE FOR STUDENT SUCCESS; INFORM FAMILIES OF PRACTICES

For S-U-R-E there's much more A-W-E-S-0-M-E hiring tips from Ron's Kids that "hopefully" will make Mr. Petrey's difficult job a bit easier of hiring qualified educators, so that Ron's Kids can continue "having a great day the status-quo Ron Malone way!"
Real

Richfield, OH

#24849 May 25, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you name any bad ones? Certainly since your just watching there must be some good ones and bad ones that you have watched.
I think just watchings earlier quote about coworkers is the best source. Everybody who has ever worked anywhere can tell you after a year or so who is really good at what they do, who just looks good at first glance or two, who is okay, and who isn't worth much. This is just like when we were kids and chose up teams, everyone of us knew how the picks were going to go despite our hopes.
Real

Richfield, OH

#24850 May 25, 2013
Just Obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
How much Creationism is on this test? I really don't want to lose focus on the 2000 students. Is the BOE telling us that learning about Creationism will improve test scores?
Wow, you don't want to talk about your own failure in educating all those kids? You just want to create and chase non issues. I wouldn't want to talk about these results either if I was trying to get somebody to pay me more to make this pile of defects.

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#24851 May 25, 2013
Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you don't want to talk about your own failure in educating all those kids? You just want to create and chase non issues. I wouldn't want to talk about these results either if I was trying to get somebody to pay me more to make this pile of defects.
Give me a break. The only way slander a school district that has earned an excellent rating in the school system is through false equovalencies. I've heard on more than one occasion the Board take credit for our ratings, then go on to paint the state as some kind of communist plot to indoctrinate our children. And then they give their passionate plea to teach our children more than the state standards, which includes creationism, global warming denial, and other platforms of the Tea Party. It's pretty clear who's attempting g to indoctrinate our school children, and it sure as hell isn't those teachers who've committed their lives to ensuring success for our children.
focus

Fairborn, OH

#24852 May 25, 2013
Open Springboro wrote:
<quoted text>
Give me a break. The only way slander a school district that has earned an excellent rating in the school system is through false equovalencies. I've heard on more than one occasion the Board take credit for our ratings, then go on to paint the state as some kind of communist plot to indoctrinate our children. And then they give their passionate plea to teach our children more than the state standards, which includes creationism, global warming denial, and other platforms of the Tea Party. It's pretty clear who's attempting g to indoctrinate our school children, and it sure as hell isn't those teachers who've committed their lives to ensuring success for our children.
tea party...tea party...that's all we hear from you...but what do u say about the influx of union money from out of state for purposes, just as getting the mayor and his goons re-elected through out of state union money ?...bet the mayor couldn't win an election without union money...that crook !

“Civic Innovation Designer”

Since: Mar 11

Springboro, Ohio

#24853 May 25, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
tea party...tea party...that's all we hear from you...but what do u say about the influx of union money from out of state for purposes, just as getting the mayor and his goons re-elected through out of state union money ?
This is where the conversation gets difficult for me, because I wouldn't argue against your points above.

What I believe is that the unions in question are composed of workers with the right to collectively bargain with their government employers. I agree that workers shouldn't be forced to pay dues, but the idea that employees would no longer have the right to collectively bargain with their employers is terrifying to me. That feels like one of the planks of our democracy being torn out from underneath me. I mean seriously, imagine if companies no longer had the right to collectively bargain the cost of their goods or services?

This is all about liberty to me. Not just the liberty to live in the township and educate your own children, but the liberty to join a community with a superior rated school system. That is what I want I to pay for with my taxes, in order to avoid the high costs of private education. I don't know if you can afford those costs, or the time to personally educate your kids, but I do know that I've got enough to worry about when my daughter goes off to college next year.

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