Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Dayton Daily News

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Observer

Lebanon, OH

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#23890
Mar 14, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
6th Grade 2009-2010 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
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Math .......50 possible points on the test
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State Rating System and distribution of students for the 6th grade
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Limited.......... 12 Students
Limited.......... 18% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -12 correct answers =(0-18% correct)
.
Basic..........13 Students
Basic ..........31% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--13- 19 correct answers =(26-38% correct)
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Proficient........96 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -20-27 correct answers =(40-54% correct)
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Accelerated.....104 Students
Accelerated.....62% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--28 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
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Advanced........176 Students
Advanced........80% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
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Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
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F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......209 Students
Percentage of Students.....49% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......93 Students
Percentage of Students.....22% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........73 Students
Percentage of Students.....17% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........42 Students
Percentage of Students.....10% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....9 Students
Percentage of Students......2% receiving A
Are these facts as Just Watching New Carlisle said them factual? If not why not?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

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#23891
Mar 14, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
What did the children learn in grades 1-6 in Springboro?
Only 21% scored better than 75% on the 7th grade OAA Math test.
21%
7th Grade 2010-2011 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
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Math .......50 possible points on the test
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State Rating System and distribution of students for the 7th grade
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Limited.......... 8 Students
Limited.......... 17% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -9 correct answers =(0-18% correct)
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Basic..........35 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--10- 16 correct answers =(20-32% correct)
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Proficient........161 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -17-29 correct answers =(34-58% correct)
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Accelerated.....95 Students
Accelerated.....65% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
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Advanced........104 Students
Advanced........81% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
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Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
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F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....59% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......79 Students
Percentage of Students.....20% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........60 Students
Percentage of Students.....15% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........25 Students
Percentage of Students.....6% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....2 Students
Percentage of Students......0% receiving A
Are these facts as Just Watching New Carlisle said them factual? If not why not?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

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#23892
Mar 14, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
The state plays semantic games with the children's future. The state substitutes pleasant and positive sounding euphemisms for actual achievement and in the process robs the student and the taxpayer who funds this scam.
While the state may have foisted another worthless Excellent with Distinction award upon our Junior High School, the factual data reveals anything but in Math.
These scores are not derived solely form the Junior High School, but are a result of a cumulative effort in each preceding grade. Each progressive year from the start of testing in the third grade, the math scores continue to sink year after year. This continual stepping down in achievement ultimately produces the 8th grade where 80% of the kids score BELOW 75% on an assessment test.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
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8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
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Math .......50 possible points on the test
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State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
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Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
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Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
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Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
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Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
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Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
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Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
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Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
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Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
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Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
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Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
Are these facts as Just Watching New Carlisle said them factual? If not why not?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

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#23893
Mar 14, 2013
 

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I see a lot of people getting on others, but I don't see anybody else saying if this information is good or bad. To me if you go from high to low all the time then you are not doing as well as expected. What do the teachers say about this? Don't they care? This doesn't look good. How do you get to be Excellent with Distinction with these scores?.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23894
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Again a poor deluded soul who does not know who they really are. That would explain the "whoa is me" post.
Or you could choose another vocation if you do not find this one, financially, professionally, or personally very rewarding for you.
If you need more money, you can get another job to supplement your income, you could work during the summer, or you could pursue other areas of interest that are more what you are seeking financially.
I know quite a few people who would love to be earning what they made five years ago.
Count your blessings and be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

Check your facts that is the cost. Thought you were a fact checker? I guess you are only when it serves your ideas. Do you even have a degree? If so, from where? Must be an online degree as much as you are on here.
What does your answer have to do with the above?
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23895
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Report on our High School Program of Studies by the Warren County Education Service Center. These are the professional educators that were hired by the Superintendent to give an unbiased opinion on our program of studies. I believe Mr. Lolli commissioned one in 2010, but it seemingly never saw the light of day. That report was destined for a highly classified repository, under a stack of other reports, hidden away in a dark, desk drawer.

This one makes for interesting and easy reading. Some pages of note, see page 4 on some basic ideas to challenge our children in school.

Page 6 contains this gem about a visit and suggestions from a couple of years ago. See how many have been put into action.

Page 8 addresses the need to raise expectations and homework that is meaningful in learning. Quality vs quantity

PAGE 10 is must see for anyone interested in the education of children in this community. It lays it out simply and in a nutshell.

Page 13 talks about communication between staffs of schools feeding one another. Pretty basic stuff that with the proper leadership could go a long way towards turning the corner academically.

Read it yourself, chances it will leave you shaking your head.

Page 1
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HY...

Page 2
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HT...

Page3
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_Hc...

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Page 8
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Page 10
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Page 1
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Page 2
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Page3
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_Hc...

Page 4
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Page 5
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_He...

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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HS...

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question

Franklin, OH

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#23896
Mar 15, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want that here is the plan. Call today and you can get started with the summer semester.
1. Everyone needs to go out and get a degree in education. Books and tuition at Wright State will only run $40,000.00 for a degree.
2. For those of you who have a 4 year degree you can go back and get your Masters in Education for about $20,000.00 at Wright State.
3. Over the course of your 30 year career it will only cost you $18,000.00 to renew your license every five years.
4. Then go get one of those good paying jobs in Springboro that pays $38,000.00 per year for a new teacher and under the current salary freeze, 5 years from now you'll still be making $38,000.00.
On point 3 you claim that it costs 18000 to renew your teaching license every 5 years over 30 years. Are you claiming the 5 year license renewal costs 3000 dollars.
the truth hurts

Springboro, OH

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#23897
Mar 15, 2013
 
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Are these facts as Just Watching New Carlisle said them factual? If not why not?
JW, it looks like certain natives may be getting a bit restless.
not so distinct

Springboro, OH

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#23898
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Observer wrote:
I see a lot of people getting on others, but I don't see anybody else saying if this information is good or bad. To me if you go from high to low all the time then you are not doing as well as expected. What do the teachers say about this? Don't they care? This doesn't look good. How do you get to be Excellent with Distinction with these scores?.
Have you visited many other districts outside of Springboro lately? At this exact moment in time almost 60% of Ohio's public districts have been graded as either Excellent or Excellent with Distinction. People, it's all about perception!

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ss...

Take a look at this link above. You'll see a map of Ohio with each school district color-coded with 5 designations - academic emergency, academic watch, continuous improvement, effective, excellent & excellent with distinction.

Closely examine the color-coding scheme, particularly the lightening of shades between between "effective" - "excellent", then a dramatic darkening to "excellent with distinction". This map has liberal bias written all over it. This map symbolizies the state of Ohio's perennial attempts in masking their overall embarrassment of the current collective pathetic state of Ohio's public schools.

Just Watching has done a great job in illustrating for us ad infinitum just how Ohio has lowered the bar for Springboro and all of Ohio's children. Our socialist president Barack Obama as well as many of our educators tell us Common Core is coming to save the day. Placed into the smallest of nutshells, Common Core is generally about a systematic dillution of student expectations in future curricula, all in the name of "racing to the top" (gag!) and achieving those federal *goals.

* dollars
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23899
Mar 15, 2013
 

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question wrote:
<quoted text>
On point 3 you claim that it costs 18000 to renew your teaching license every 5 years over 30 years. Are you claiming the 5 year license renewal costs 3000 dollars.
Beats me, I did not write nor claim this one. I cannot offer anything in this direction as I have no basis or knowledge here.

What I do know is that no one is forced into the teaching profession. All are free to come and go as they please if they do not find the work as personally or financially as rewarding as they would like.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23900
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Observer wrote:
I see a lot of people getting on others, but I don't see anybody else saying if this information is good or bad. To me if you go from high to low all the time then you are not doing as well as expected. What do the teachers say about this? Don't they care? This doesn't look good. How do you get to be Excellent with Distinction with these scores?.
I reported the facts and documented the sources based upon information provided by the Ohio Department of Education (ODE).

You are correct they do not look good, the system is failing the children and robbing them of the education they deserve.

As of this point in time I would have to say my research has been accurate because no one has refuted a bit of the data nor offered a plausible alternative explanation.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23901
Mar 15, 2013
 
Maybe they think if they ignore the bad news it will go away and everything can go back to Candy and Roses.
Why no answers

Powell, OH

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#23902
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I reported the facts and documented the sources based upon information provided by the Ohio Department of Education (ODE).
You are correct they do not look good, the system is failing the children and robbing them of the education they deserve.
As of this point in time I would have to say my research has been accurate because no one has refuted a bit of the data nor offered a plausible alternative explanation.
If you don't have any defense for the data do the next best thing and attack the messenger. Maybe they think everybody is too stupid to keep looking at the bad numbers that reflect their work, and want to watch a car wreck instead
question

Miamisburg, OH

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#23903
Mar 15, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00.
What do you think a fair days wage for a fair days work is?
Fair to whom? Please define for me what you mean by the word fair.

I would NEVER SAY that all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.

Someone doesn't even have the smarts to come up with their own name.
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Fair to whom? Please define for me what you mean by the word fair.
I would NEVER SAY that all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.
Someone doesn't even have the smarts to come up with their own name.
OK so that's not you that said: "I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00." you are saying it was someone else using the same name.

So what would you say the maximum a Springboro 5th grade teacher should be paid?
truth to power

Springboro, OH

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#23904
Mar 15, 2013
 

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question wrote:
Just Watching wrote:
I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00.
What do you think a fair days wage for a fair days work is?
Fair to whom? Please define for me what you mean by the word fair.
I would NEVER SAY that all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.
Someone doesn't even have the smarts to come up with their own name.
<quoted text>
OK so that's not you that said: "I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00." you are saying it was someone else using the same name.
So what would you say the maximum a Springboro 5th grade teacher should be paid?
I'll bite.
Ohio public school teachers should start around 30K - 35 K.
But the problem isn't so much with the level of starting salary as it is with seemingly uncontrolled pay increases which are regularly negotiated by teachers union thugs like Maney.

Principals and superintendents work too close to teachers to be impartial administrators of their pay increases. Hiring, firing and pay increases are business decisions. Business decisions need to be made by each district's board of education, with plenty of constructive input from parents, students and the general public, to where every board of education SHOULD owe their primary allegiance.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23905
Mar 15, 2013
 

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question wrote:
Just Watching wrote:
I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00.
What do you think a fair days wage for a fair days work is?
Fair to whom? Please define for me what you mean by the word fair.
I would NEVER SAY that all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.
Someone doesn't even have the smarts to come up with their own name.
<quoted text>
OK so that's not you that said: "I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00." you are saying it was someone else using the same name.
So what would you say the maximum a Springboro 5th grade teacher should be paid?
They should be paid what the market dictates, no more no less. Just like everyone else.

Ask all the men and women who used to work at the GM and Delphi plants around town how much they should be paid, see what kind of answer you get.

Then ask them how much they are paid now.

If their prices had been in line with their supply, those plants would still be here today.

Push the salaries high enough for certain individuals and you will find there is no money for others.

Teachers have a limited amount of resources to draw from in a community, once the well is tapped dry that is all she wrote.

The alternatives begin to kick in then, fewer teachers making more money, parents deciding that their children can do better elsewhere leave, and along with them go their tax support dollars. Less money available now for even fewer teachers, leads to more defections, which leads to fewer dollars available for even fewer teachers, rinse and repeat.

Take a look around the city of Dayton and see how well that union model worked out for everyone, not just the mighty union, but all the people who supported those plants.(There are the same number of auto plant jobs across the country as there used to be, they just don't happen to be in union dominated areas for a reason. People and their money have choices.)

Rinse and repeat

The market pays what the job is perceived as being worth, no more, no less over the long run.

Declare any number you wish, it will not sustain itself over the long haul unless the market forces dictate such.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23906
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Why are the unions so scared of the free market?

If employers do not meet their end of the bargain by providing competitive pay, benefits, and working conditions, that employer will soon find themselves with neither the quality or quantity of employees they desire.

The converse of that statement applies to the employees.

If the employees do no meet their end of the bargain by providing an up to date skill set, good work ethic, professional appearance, and market related wage and benefit demands, they will soon find themselves on the outside looking in.

Employers and employees are each engaged in the free market arena of competition with other employers and other job applicants for resources.

The old Soviet Union had full employment, but it was often not necessarily good employment. A worker went where they were assigned for the good of the party, whether or not they had any desire to perform such tasks as were assigned were of scant concern to those assigning.

In America, you have choices. If you don't like one set of circumstances, break out and seek another. Very seldom will you find people who will cater to your particular whims and wants.
Free Market

Milford, OH

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#23907
Mar 15, 2013
 

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I don't think teachers are afraid of the free market, they are afraid of elected BOE members who have never set foot in a school making million dollar decisions for them. Education is the only profession in the world that every major decision is made by an elected official with no education background, most of the times nutrionist and two guys who I really don't what their background is are making decisions for you guys.. Any person can get elected and that's the scary thing, not the free market. People with no educational background are driving the education reform of today. Gates and Amazon.com have a big say in what goes on and then they land these huge technology contracts that stuff their pockets.
the inside track

Springboro, OH

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#23908
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Free Market wrote:
I don't think teachers are afraid of the free market, they are afraid of elected BOE members who have never set foot in a school making million dollar decisions for them.
According to unwritten & antiquated Ohio School Board Association standards, a board member's place is in the boardroom, not the classroom.

This is but one of the reasons why Springboro along with other Ohio districts have made the decisions to dump their OSBA memberships in favor of the much more progressive, pro-active OSBLC.
http://www.osblc.com/
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#23909
Mar 15, 2013
 

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Free Market wrote:
I don't think teachers are afraid of the free market, they are afraid of elected BOE members who have never set foot in a school making million dollar decisions for them. Education is the only profession in the world that every major decision is made by an elected official with no education background, most of the times nutrionist and two guys who I really don't what their background is are making decisions for you guys.. Any person can get elected and that's the scary thing, not the free market. People with no educational background are driving the education reform of today. Gates and Amazon.com have a big say in what goes on and then they land these huge technology contracts that stuff their pockets.
You are correct the free market elected the BOE we have today.

The free market chose their platform of LEVY ALTERNATIVES and BALANCED BUDGETS.

No one put a gun to anyone's head, in a competition of ideas the prevailed.

This BOE has balanced the budget for the next five years (not bad considering just a couple of years ago it was doom and gloom unless we forked over another $45 million tax dollars. I wonder often what would have become of that money and how soon they would be back for more.)

This BOE has reevaluated priorities and fixed things that needed fixing. Allocating resources to the children rather than to the adults.

I heard a woman speak of not upsetting the teachers with these bad test results and bad reports on our program of studies in the high school. Who would she say we address about these issues, the 8 year old child taking the test? Perhaps we should blame the students for not taking advantage of the superior program of studies developed by the principal at the High School.

The same High School principal that when queried why they had dumbed down the curriculum answered that they believed it was best for the students. The report by professional educators at the Warren County Education Services Center noted that the response flew in the face of the available data and research on the subject. The people who our Superintendent asked to do this review also reported that there was no available data or research to support such an nonsensical theory.

Each year that passes with our children falling further and further behind is another year of missed opportunities for our children's futures.

If the Warren County Education Services Center report from 2010 did not move the ball forward for our children, what makes anyone believe that the principal at the High School will be able to move the 2012 report and its recommendations forward.

Since the 2010 report came out 900 plus kids have gone through the high school, how many children do you believe benefitted from recommendations to improve the program of studies that were not implemented.

Read Page 10 of the report and look at the DECREASES in the program of studies from 2008.

Page 10
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs0_xA64y_HS...

DECREASES in the courses that would most improve a child's lot in life.

We are supposed to be a top notch educational facilities, why are we dumbing down the curriculum?

Those decisions were made by an all to acquiescent BOE in the past and a principal who lead the charge downhill.

The principal is scrambling to paste back the crumbling facade of success.

The old BOE members who failed to pursue their responsibility to the children and the community have been retired by the free market of ideas.

The only ones who pay the price for this type of incompetence are the children.

The administrators keep getting their paychecks regardless of what happens.

The retired board members go back to what they once did as if nothing happened.

The only ones who pay the price are the children.

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