Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

Feb 1, 2013 Full story: EMS1 2,046

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

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focus

Fairborn, OH

#1085 Apr 28, 2013
The Truth wrote:
Folks, the opposition is getting desperate.
They realize the fine citizens of Springboro are too wise to fall for their dirty tactics of deceit, intimidation, and outright lies.
Learn the truth - visit yesto3.com .
Come May 7th join my family in voting YES on Issue 3!
public record, please get some new material...it's actually you pro levy creatures getting desparate..
Firefighter for Truth

Springboro, OH

#1086 Apr 28, 2013
True. The levy request was railroaded through the township trustees at a time when everyone thought the public would be asleep. When that turned out not to be true, they sent us out to talk to the public. Even if #23 closes, we will be okay. It's okay to vote against the levy. Really. It will be okay. I can't stand the way the citizens are being treated by the doomsday mouthpieces on this blog.

I could get fired for saying these things. But people--this levy is for FOREVER. They are not telling you the whole truth when they say they won't have to come to you for another eight (8) years. The truth is you will NOT GET TO VOTE AGAIN--THERE WILL BE NO RENEWALS WITH THIS LEVY. They won't have to come to you for FOREVER it's so big. We are talking BIG MONEY here. And their coffers are full!

This levy is ADDITIONAL, FOREVER Money. Not a renewal. Vote wisely.

Sleep safe. We will come to your assistance with or without this levy. Knowledge is Power. Truth will Prevail.
focus

United States

#1087 Apr 28, 2013
Firefighter for Truth wrote:
I could get fired for saying these things....
Helen Keller could see what a poser and fake this guy is. Wow! Grasping at straws now...
poor sad focus

Dayton, OH

#1088 Apr 28, 2013
Firefighter for Truth wrote:
True. The levy request was railroaded through the township trustees at a time when everyone thought the public would be asleep. When that turned out not to be true, they sent us out to talk to the public. Even if #23 closes, we will be okay. It's okay to vote against the levy. Really. It will be okay. I can't stand the way the citizens are being treated by the doomsday mouthpieces on this blog.
I could get fired for saying these things. But people--this levy is for FOREVER. They are not telling you the whole truth when they say they won't have to come to you for another eight (8) years. The truth is you will NOT GET TO VOTE AGAIN--THERE WILL BE NO RENEWALS WITH THIS LEVY. They won't have to come to you for FOREVER it's so big. We are talking BIG MONEY here. And their coffers are full!
This levy is ADDITIONAL, FOREVER Money. Not a renewal. Vote wisely.
Sleep safe. We will come to your assistance with or without this levy. Knowledge is Power. Truth will Prevail.
Everyon knows that our firefighters will respond to any need. they do not care what or if you pay taxes.
Wow I did not think you would stoop to representing yourself as a firefighter. The firefighters are free to express themselves, as long as not working. How said you have brought yourself to this level. For every argument you give, it must be disappointing to be shown
wrong. Truth will prevail, how sad is it you attack firefighters and falsely represent what and who you are.
Firefighter for Truth

Springboro, OH

#1089 Apr 28, 2013
Say what you want, focus from United States, and poor sad focus from Dayton, OH, but I am from Springboro. I stand proud for 'Boro. Okay, so I exaggerated when I said I could be fired. Geez. Everyone knows how hard it is for a public servant to be fired. We can't even fire liars, cheats, gamblers, and child molesters.

Sure, I wasn't "working" when I went to peoples houses. What if I "chose" not to go? Can't any of you put yourself in my position? But I can't stand by and say that everything I was told to say is the God's truth because it isn't. Believe what you want about me. Or not.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1090 Apr 28, 2013
Here is what I found wrote:
<quoted text>
For such a clever person you did bother to check very long. I found answers to two of your questions with about 3 minutes. I have done records request, attending the last town hall and asked questions. My belief is one that is informed is not going to waste their time here to find out facts. I have received a report from Mrs. Oda and found the data flawed compared to the Auditor's Report. I asked the chief about the needs and why they are asking now. He answered my questions. He showed me the budget sheets and let me know the current budget reflected positions that have already been reduced. This showed nearly $2 million more in cost than funding. He showed me the numbers that at the end of next year the rollover will be depleted. This means he must level the budget. He advised 82% of the fire budget is people and that is the only place they are able to cut. He stated no cuts would happen until January 1.
My friends had discouraged me to vote for this, saying we just don't need more taxes. I chose to leave in a township. Townships are funded exclusively through tax levies. If I decide I don't want to fund a township ,then I decide not to have a complaint when services are not there.
I will vote yes to the fire/ems levy, issue 3.
Question 1: How old is each one of the department's vehicles? In others words, what year did it roll off the assembly line?
Sorry it isn't listed on line.
Question 2: How many miles are logged on each of the vehicles odometers? You may have to look up the meaning of the word odometer. Sorry, I cannot think of another way of saying this. It's the meter on the dashboard instrument panel thingy that shows how far the vehicle has been driven over its lifetime.
http://clearcreektownship.com/FireEMS/PDFs/20...
Question 3: Which one of the stations will be closed if the levy fails?
http://www.yesto3.com/whatsatstake.html
You say that Ms. Oda's data is flawed, but you neglect to demonstrate how.

The chief showed you budget sheets, did you get copies so you could share them with us?

If the chief has any numbers he wishes to show we would be happy to review them, as of now I have not seen anything remotely supportive.

Just because you have not had a levy in some time does not mean that you need one today. There is no cause and effect between the two concepts.

Saying how many miles a vehicle has on it tells us nothing, more importantly is how well has the vehicle been maintained. Two cars with identical mileage can have two entirely different years of service left in them, all dependent upon the maintenance each received or did not receive.

To say you now make more calls than you did 12 years ago says nothing about capacity of our fire department. You also did not mention your staffing levels at each of the last 12 years? Is our system scalable or static.

I am still to see the first person refute the numbers Ms Oda provided with an alternate set and interpretation. Or than a few saying that is not right, the opposition seems to have completely ignored the opportunity to demonstrate the veracity of its position.

That is the essence of the argument, no plausible fact based refutation of Ms. Oda's document regarding the fund balance increases year after year after year.

That seals the deal, NO.

Fund..........2008..........20 09..........2010..........2011 ..........2012
Fire..........6,484,996....6,5 52,589...6,850,299...6,692,969 ...7,413,186
Police........2,280,119....2,2 19,504...2,262,053...2,620,436 ...3,091,206
Ambulnce..749,103.......859,99 7.....1,029,011....1,214,472.. .1,043,064
General......1,007,123....919, 603.....982,624.......1.124.99 6...1,011,082
All Other.....1,224,763...1,721,95 8...996,804......1,226,120.... 1,343,007
TOTAL.......11,745,106..12,273 ,651..12,123,011..12,881,004.. 13,901,544

These were the Clearcreek Township Year End Fund Balances provided by Linda Oda, the township financial officer
The Truth

Englewood, OH

#1092 Apr 28, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You say that Ms. Oda's data is flawed, but you neglect to demonstrate how.
I recognize I don't have the expertise on these issues, but the Auditor of State sure does. As Auditor of State Dave Yost wrote, "We noted the following significant audit adjustments and/or reclassifications that were required to be made to the financial statements". The list is huge. Read below....

Thanks to "Answer" for pointing out Mrs. Oda's many errors:
Answer wrote:
<quoted text>
Answer wrote:
http://www.auditor.state.oh.us/auditsearch/Re ...
Page 5 for 2012 also.
http://www.auditor.state.oh.us/auditsearch/Re ...
Nice for the auditor of state to point out what a double dipping fool Linda Oda is!

And I quote:

"While AOS (Auditor of State) does not legally require your government to prepare financial statements pursuant to Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), the AICPA interpretation requires auditors to formally acknowledge that you did not prepare your financial statements in accordance with GAAP. Our Report includes an adverse opinion relating to GAAP presentation and measurement requirements."

The report goes on to say:

"In our opinion, because of the effects of the matter discussed in the preceding two paragraphs, the financial statement referred to above for the year ended December 31, 2011 does not present fairly, in conformity with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America, the financial position of the Township as of December 31, 2011, or its changes in financial position for the year then ended".

Then they detail some of her mistakes:

"We noted the following significant audit adjustments and/or reclassifications that were required to be made to the financial statements:

The Township recorded the principal and interest payments totaling $100,510 to the capital outlay line item in the General Fund and was reclassified to the principal and interest line item;

A Safety Hazardous Grant in the amount of $4,068 was incorrectly posted to the wrong line item (fines, licenses and permits) and was reclassified to the intergovernmental line item in the Fire Levy Fund;

Grant receipts totaling $18,547 for the FEMA Fund were incorrectly posted to the intergovernmental line item in the SAFER Fund instead of posting the receipts to the intergovernmental line item in the FEMA Fund. An audit adjustment was made to properly record these receipts.

Bank fees totaling $19,266 were never posted to the system which caused the General Fund balance to be overstated.

A grant receipt for $498 was posted to the Charges for Services line item in the Emergency Medical Services Fund (EMS) Fund instead of the FEMA Fund.

Federal expenditures totaling $60,688 were posted to the Fire District Fund instead of the FEMA Fund.

An EFT for $1,330 was recorded in the SAFER Fund, however the EFT was not processed by the bank. A receipt was posted to the intergovernmental line item and a check was posted to the SAFER Fund for the amount that was previously recorded which caused the receipts and disbursements to be overstated."

Now for the best part:

"We recommend that the Fiscal Officer take due care in posting receipts to the proper funds and line items".

If you want, scroll down to the bottom of that link and you can read about all the noncompliance citations slapped on the township for her incompetence.
The Whole Truth

Piqua, OH

#1093 Apr 29, 2013
The truth that township/springboro voters are seeing is "The time has come on May 7th to go the polls to Just Vote No on Issue 3."

The truth is taxpaying homeowners cannot afford, nor want, to pay more taxes for public safety services.

CCFD has failed to provide transparency in the fire district budget, so that voters can understand why the CCFD wants more
money.

The May 7th ADDITIONAL levy proposes to double the fire district budget; claiming that it is needed just to maintain the same level of service.

The CCFD has failed to prove their claim with public financial facts.

The CCFD has given voters no proof at all that this additional levy is needed; just the same old mantra that The time has come to ask for more.

The whole truth is(regardless of the politics of personal destruction raging wildly throughout Springboro)that local taxpaying homeowners cannot afford to pay more.

The Time Has Come For Responsible Citizens to Go to The Polls on May 7th and Just Vote No on
Issue 3.

After this levy fails, then the time has come
time for citizens to address our concerns of inefficiencies with our Clearcreek Township Government leaders.

JUST VOTE NO ON MAY 7th.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1094 Apr 29, 2013
Fund..........2008..........20 09..........2010..........2011 ..........2012
Fire..........6,484,996....6,5 52,589...6,850,299...6,692,969 ...7,413,186
Police........2,280,119....2,2 19,504...2,262,053...2,620,436 ...3,091,206
Ambulnce..749,103.......859,99 7.....1,029,011....1,214,472.. .1,043,064
General......1,007,123....919, 603.....982,624.......1.124.99 6...1,011,082
All Other.....1,224,763...1,721,95 8...996,804......1,226,120.... 1,343,007
TOTAL.......11,745,106..12,273 ,651..12,123,011..12,881,004.. 13,901,544

In spite of her posting errors, the grand total in all fund grew at rates much higher than the posting errors you sight. The only one that would impact the bottom line total was the one regarding $19,000 in bank fees and that would change the total gain from the existing 7.3% to only 7.2%. on the years 2011 to 2012.

You are still collecting way more money than you need and have been for the past five years shown and I suspect since the inception of this levy.

The answer and evaluation of the levy still provides a NO vote.

Better clerk accounting in the posting session, but not untold millions in new revenues from the taxpayers.
The Whole Truth

Piqua, OH

#1095 Apr 29, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I recognize I don't have the expertise on these issues, but the Auditor of State sure does. As Auditor of State Dave Yost wrote, "We noted the following significant audit adjustments and/or reclassifications that were required to be made to the financial statements". The list is huge. Read below....
Thanks to "Answer" for pointing out Mrs. Oda's many errors:
<quoted text>
Nice for the auditor of state to point out what a double dipping fool Linda Oda is!
And I quote:
"While AOS (Auditor of State) does not legally require your government to prepare financial statements pursuant to Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), the AICPA interpretation requires auditors to formally acknowledge that you did not prepare your financial statements in accordance with GAAP. Our Report includes an adverse opinion relating to GAAP presentation and measurement requirements."
The report goes on to say:
"In our opinion, because of the effects of the matter discussed in the preceding two paragraphs, the financial statement referred to above for the year ended December 31, 2011 does not present fairly, in conformity with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America, the financial position of the Township as of December 31, 2011, or its changes in financial position for the year then ended".
Then they detail some of her mistakes:
"We noted the following significant audit adjustments and/or reclassifications that were required to be made to the financial statements:
The Township recorded the principal and interest payments totaling $100,510 to the capital outlay line item in the General Fund and was reclassified to the principal and interest line item;
A Safety Hazardous Grant in the amount of $4,068 was incorrectly posted to the wrong line item (fines, licenses and permits) and was reclassified to the intergovernmental line item in the Fire Levy Fund;
Grant receipts totaling $18,547 for the FEMA Fund were incorrectly posted to the intergovernmental line item in the SAFER Fund instead of posting the receipts to the intergovernmental line item in the FEMA Fund. An audit adjustment was made to properly record these receipts.
Bank fees totaling $19,266 were never posted to the system which caused the General Fund balance to be overstated.
A grant receipt for $498 was posted to the Charges for Services line item in the Emergency Medical Services Fund (EMS) Fund instead of the FEMA Fund.
Federal expenditures totaling $60,688 were posted to the Fire District Fund instead of the FEMA Fund.
An EFT for $1,330 was recorded in the SAFER Fund, however the EFT was not processed by the bank. A receipt was posted to the intergovernmental line item and a check was posted to the SAFER Fund for the amount that was previously recorded which caused the receipts and disbursements to be overstated."
Now for the best part:
"We recommend that the Fiscal Officer take due care in posting receipts to the proper funds and line items".
If you want, scroll down to the bottom of that link and you can read about all the noncompliance citations slapped on the township for her incompetence.
The truth here is proven that the CCFD has failed to provide transparency in their budget; so that voters can understand their complicated budgeting system and which money is post to which fund. In light of this truth, the responsible thing for Mr. Kidd to do is to release a press statement telling the truth that no levy is needed and that people should go to the polls on May 7th and Just Vote No on Issue 3. Isn't it irresponsible leadership of Mr. Kidd to ask voters to reward inefficient financial management of OUR money, by voting to give the CCFD more of OUR money?

JUST VOTE NO ON MAY 7th.
focused

Ashburn, VA

#1096 Apr 29, 2013
The Whole Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't it irresponsible leadership of Mr. Kidd to ask voters to reward inefficient financial management of OUR money, by voting to give the CCFD more of OUR money?
Can you provide some examples of what you refer to as "inefficient financial management"?? Maybe I could refer you to the $2.5 million in grants obtained over the last few years, the fact that a 10 year levy has lasted 12 years, or the fact that this is only the second fire levy in 26 years?

Seems to me the Clearcreek fire department has been very efficient with our public funds!

My family and I have already voted YES on Issue 3, I encourage you to do the same.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1097 Apr 29, 2013
focused wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you provide some examples of what you refer to as "inefficient financial management"?? Maybe I could refer you to the $2.5 million in grants obtained over the last few years, the fact that a 10 year levy has lasted 12 years, or the fact that this is only the second fire levy in 26 years?
Seems to me the Clearcreek fire department has been very efficient with our public funds!
My family and I have already voted YES on Issue 3, I encourage you to do the same.
The fact that they do their job in an efficient and well managed way, does not imply nor demand that more money is needed.

The fact that they do a good job husbanding their resources, doesn't mean they need more money.

The fact that they have not had a new levy in 12 years does not by itself mean they require one now.

All of that is great and I applaud that effort and result.

That still does not mean they need more taxes.

Vote NO
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1098 Apr 29, 2013
Fire, EMS, and SAFER revenues and expenses

2012 ..20112010..200 9..2008

Revenue

$5,023,271....$5,072,766..$ 4,873,446..$4,504,135.$4,53 2,511
(Fire)

$532,689....$539,564$501, 786.$512,669.$542,772
(EMS)

$1,107,678.$614,222-0- .-0--0-
(SAFER)

Expenditures

$4,513,882.$5,080,122.$4,9 25,104...$4,425,707....$4,68 3,702
(Fire)
$703,538.$354,312.$332,5 63$401,775.....$296,199
(EMS)
$1,009,274.$620,347.-0- ..-0--0-
(SAFER)

The hidden object that needs to be delved into is the one that will be used to bloat the payrolls with more full time employees with federal grants than are required, then stick the bill the taxpayers later when the grants run out. The money from the funds pays for the salaries of the new hires, uniforms, etc.

This is the SAFER program, another stealth, union roll bloating program brought to you by the same government folks that brought us Homeland Security and FEMA.

Hierarchy of Priorities First priority: Rehiring laid-off firefighters Second priorities: Retention of firefighters who face imminent layoff and/or filling positions vacated through attrition but not filled due to economic circumstances Third priority: Hiring new firefighters

This was part of our great leader's stimulus program.

The only jobs they have been busy saving are government related union jobs.

As we have all witnessed the past four years, if you are a government worker things are pretty solid as resources went to shoring up government employment. SAFER is another such program and in the end the local taxpayer will be the one left to pay the bill when Uncle Sam bails.

In his first speech to a joint session of Congress, Obama said it's time to act boldly not just to revive the economy, but "to build a new foundation for lasting prosperity."

Little did we realize that we were being shortchanged all those years prior to 2011 on fire safety.

Thank the good Lord, we had the federal government ready to print us some more money to save ourselves.

Vote NO and tell them to quit taking the free shiny stuff, the bling is hiding the dangerous and costly sharp hooks.

And it still shows we are taking in more money than we are expending.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1099 Apr 29, 2013
http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do...

The SAFER program brochure extolling the virtues of government employment.

In the middle of the page is a blue block

Go to the Resource File portion and click the part to the right that say View

Proceed to pages 7-9 and enjoy.

It all sounds really good, but did anyone around here feel unsafe prior to the arrival of the President's stimulus program in this incarnation in 2011?
focused

Ashburn, VA

#1100 Apr 29, 2013
I've felt unsafe ever since Kohls, Rigano, and Patroni got on the school board.
Signals

Youngstown, OH

#1101 Apr 29, 2013
Just Watching (aka Doug Wiedeman)- thank you for being so uninformed!
Do you have NOTHING better to do with your time?
Put your time and energy into volunteering and helping others!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#1102 Apr 29, 2013
Signals wrote:
Just Watching (aka Doug Wiedeman)- thank you for being so uninformed!
Do you have NOTHING better to do with your time?
Put your time and energy into volunteering and helping others!
You can always tell when your side is winning, the other team tries to defect attention away from their lack of points onto anything else.

And No, but thanks for asking.

As a matter of fact our family volunteers for quite a few things throughout the community helping others, we don't put our name on them we just quietly do what needs to be done.

It is fun, you get to meet different people, gather diverse viewpoints, work on a team for the greater good, do something productive with your time, and generally feel better physically and mentally after you have done your duty.

I would recommend you try it sometime, you will be glad you finally did.
The Whole Truth

Piqua, OH

#1103 Apr 29, 2013
focused wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you provide some examples of what you refer to as "inefficient financial management"?? Maybe I could refer you to the $2.5 million in grants obtained over the last few years, the fact that a 10 year levy has lasted 12 years, or the fact that this is only the second fire levy in 26 years?
Seems to me the Clearcreek fire department has been very efficient with our public funds!
My family and I have already voted YES on Issue 3, I encourage you to do the same.
No need to provide more than the Whole Truth....

Just Vote No On May 7th!
Healthy Choice

Piqua, OH

#1104 Apr 29, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You can always tell when your side is winning, the other team tries to defect attention away from their lack of points onto anything else.
And No, but thanks for asking.
As a matter of fact our family volunteers for quite a few things throughout the community helping others, we don't put our name on them we just quietly do what needs to be done.
It is fun, you get to meet different people, gather diverse viewpoints, work on a team for the greater good, do something productive with your time, and generally feel better physically and mentally after you have done your duty.
I would recommend you try it sometime, you will be glad you finally did.
Bravo! Isn't it a-m-a-z-i-n-g what human beings working together
can accomplish, IF they don't waste time and energy demanding constant praise, for being the most wonderful and deserving ones of all?
focused

Ashburn, VA

#1105 Apr 29, 2013
Learn the truth - yesto3.com

On May 7th remember to vote YES to 3!

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