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RobertS

Milwaukee, WI

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#21
Mar 29, 2012
 

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The Organizer wrote:
<quoted text>
REPLY:
I agree that a critical issue is who threatened or attacked who first. The admitted facts, 911 calls, and witness statements bear that out quite clearly. Mr. Zimmerman was the primary aggressor as he chased Trayvon through the grass, armed with a nine mm handgun. Whether Zimmerman's gun was initially holstered or not is not entirely relevant. It is important, though not dispositive. In my opinion, knowing only what has been released thus-far, it was clearly Trayvon who had every legal right to "Stand (his) Ground". You cannot pick a fight (Zimmerman), and then claim self-defense/stand your ground. Everyone knows that, dont they? Mr. Zimmerman is an overzealous murderer hiding behind the color of law.
I was not aware that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon. He was following, but not chasing. Please post a website where you got the information he was chasing. Trayvon has a right to stand his ground but you said Zimmerman picked the fight. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, perhaps questioned him, but that is not the same as "picking a fight".
Read the Florida Stand your Ground Law. I am totally against the law but if you look at what happened and look at the law, I think Zimmerman will walk. There is no evidence to indicate Zimmerman did anything other than follow and question. We can surmise all we want. Zimmerman was a Rambo, Zimmerman has had prior run in's with the law. But where is the evidence? The evidence now seems to indicate Martin was the aggressor..... He was on top of Zimmerman. And if the report on Martin's texts are correct, he had a run in with a bus driver where he took a swing at the driver. It is not relavent to the shooting but it shows that Martin is not the sweet kid protrayed. If Martin swings first, and Zimmerman feels he is in danger of great bodily harm, than he can legally use lethal force.
You can disagree all you want but it is the stupid Florida law that will get Zimmerman off.
My personal opinion is that this has become too racialized.
The law needs to be repealed so this does not happen again.
Regards,
JMB

Morgantown, WV

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#22
Mar 29, 2012
 
The Organizer wrote:
Thank you Spunky! I am deeply saddened by the death of such a young and innocent boy at the hands of a purported racist. While wrong either way, I am still hoping, somehow, that race was not Mr. Zimmerman's motivation.
Because self defense is not murder
The Organizer

Spokane, WA

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#23
Mar 29, 2012
 
RobertS wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not aware that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon. He was following, but not chasing. Please post a website where you got the information he was chasing. Trayvon has a right to stand his ground but you said Zimmerman picked the fight. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, perhaps questioned him, but that is not the same as "picking a fight".
Read the Florida Stand your Ground Law. I am totally against the law but if you look at what happened and look at the law, I think Zimmerman will walk. There is no evidence to indicate Zimmerman did anything other than follow and question. We can surmise all we want. Zimmerman was a Rambo, Zimmerman has had prior run in's with the law. But where is the evidence? The evidence now seems to indicate Martin was the aggressor..... He was on top of Zimmerman. And if the report on Martin's texts are correct, he had a run in with a bus driver where he took a swing at the driver. It is not relavent to the shooting but it shows that Martin is not the sweet kid protrayed. If Martin swings first, and Zimmerman feels he is in danger of great bodily harm, than he can legally use lethal force.
You can disagree all you want but it is the stupid Florida law that will get Zimmerman off.
My personal opinion is that this has become too racialized.
The law needs to be repealed so this does not happen again.
Regards,
REPLY:

Robert: I agree with some of what you have said. "Stand Your Ground" is a terrible law, and invites such ambiguity and death as we unfortunately see here. Here is a 911 tape on the issue of "chasing".
. In that tape, Zimmerman is out of breath, and reports to the 911 operator that Trayvon is "running" away from him, and that he is following Trayvon. That leads me to the logical conclusion of "chasing" in order to keep pace, but at the very least to the similar legal conclusion of "persuing" Trayvon, against instruction by 911/police dispatch, while armed, which, in my opinion supports most people's conclusion of Zimmerman,(an unidentified armed vigilante) becoming the "primary aggressor". If true, that would give Trayvon the absolute legal right to use deadly force against Zimmerman under Florida State law. That would also make any injuries sustained to Zimmerman irrelevant under the law since Trayvon had the legal right to defend himself.

I understand that most of this discussion is extremely premature because we have not yet been able to read all of the true facts. However, based upon what we have read thus-far, I believe, without doubt, that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon. Maybe Manslaughter in the alternative. I base my opinion upon the available 911 tapes, Trayvon's cries for help (unless it was Zimmerman), multiple witness statements, Zimmerman's own statement, Trayvon's girlfriend's "ear-witness" testimony, and the lead detective's conclusion to charge Zimmerman with Manslaughter, at the least. Regretfully, the State Attorney suppressed the lead detective's recommendation to charge Zimmerman. I am surely open to reconsider my opinion upon differing actual evidence. However, I do not think that is so likely. To me, the evidence seems to be severely mounting more and more against Zimmerman. The media sure is exacerbating things a bit as well. We need their information, but we also need to receive it with caution at this point. Thanks for your reply Robert!
The Organizer

Spokane, WA

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#24
Mar 29, 2012
 
RobertS wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not aware that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon. He was following, but not chasing. Please post a website where you got the information he was chasing. Trayvon has a right to stand his ground but you said Zimmerman picked the fight. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, perhaps questioned him, but that is not the same as "picking a fight".
Read the Florida Stand your Ground Law. I am totally against the law but if you look at what happened and look at the law, I think Zimmerman will walk. There is no evidence to indicate Zimmerman did anything other than follow and question. We can surmise all we want. Zimmerman was a Rambo, Zimmerman has had prior run in's with the law. But where is the evidence? The evidence now seems to indicate Martin was the aggressor..... He was on top of Zimmerman. And if the report on Martin's texts are correct, he had a run in with a bus driver where he took a swing at the driver. It is not relavent to the shooting but it shows that Martin is not the sweet kid protrayed. If Martin swings first, and Zimmerman feels he is in danger of great bodily harm, than he can legally use lethal force.
You can disagree all you want but it is the stupid Florida law that will get Zimmerman off.
My personal opinion is that this has become too racialized.
The law needs to be repealed so this does not happen again.
Regards,
REPLY:

Robert: I left one thing out from your reply. Under the totality of what I mentioned in my reply above, I do not think that it is material whether Trayvon was, at some point, on top of Zimmerman. That would be consistent with Trayvon exercising his right to "Stand (his) Ground" against Zimmerman, the primary armed aggressor. Thanks Robert.
wagasuperstar

Bronx, NY

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#25
Mar 29, 2012
 
REALLY
\way would people do that just because he has a hoody on doen't mean he is , a crimanal maybe he was sad because of his dad bianca
REALL
some poe[le are just s**** REALLY
!!
The Organizer

Spokane, WA

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#26
Mar 29, 2012
 
wagasuperstar wrote:
REALLY
\way would people do that just because he has a hoody on doen't mean he is , a crimanal maybe he was sad because of his dad bianca
REALL
some poe[le are just s**** REALLY
!!
Wagasuperstar: Does your comment mean that Zimmerman should be charged with Murder 2 or Manslaughter? Also, I am new at this site. Does our discussion in Spokane, WA pop up automatically all the way over to New York? What did you type in to find this discussion? I'm just curious. Thanks.
Missy

Renton, WA

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#27
Mar 29, 2012
 
RobertS wrote:
According to the Stand Your Ground law,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-groun...
you do not have a duty to withdraw if you are attacked. If you feel your life is in danger then you can legally do what your feel is necessary to halt the attack. The big question is, "Did Trayvon attack Zimmerman?" The fact that Zimmerman got out of his car against the advice of the police is dumb but it is immaterial to the case. If Zimmerman got out of his car against police advice but Trayvon attacked Zimmerman than Zimmerman, under Florida Law, has the right to defend himself. This whole thing will come down to "who attacked who first". The evidence shows that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and caused injuries to his head. The back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet from being on the bottom on the ground and Zimmerman had head injuries.(This is contained in the police report
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/03/2...
Based on this it seems that Trayvon was the attacker.
My thoughts are that Zimmerman will not be charged. We can speculate all we want re the size of Zimmerman vs Trayvon but there does not seem to be any actual witnesses to the initial confrontation. Zimmerman may be a Rambo with a past history of problems. Trayvon has his own issues re truancy, suspension from school, the marijuana thing, and the screwdriver and jewelry in his backpack. These are indicators of the character of the people involved, nothing more. The law IMO is incredibally stupid as in some respects it allows for legalized killings. Thank the NRA for the law.
And BTW, looking at the media pictures of Trayvon is misleading. Trayvon appears to be an innocent boy of about 13 or 14 years old when in fact he was 17.
What does Travon being suspended from school and other things that were speculated or shall I say conjured, up have to do with an innocent person walking from a store minding his own business? So because you believe that he was a bad "kid", he deserved to be followed and stalked by a complete stranger? Zimmerman should've never disregarded the 911 operator when he said "we don't need you to do that". But bc he did, a young man's life is gone! I don't care what color either of them are, wrong is wrong. You can't go start a fight with someone then yell self defense. And have you even seen the new videos showing an unscuffed, unbloodied, unbruised Zimmerman...with his jacket on nice and neat and his clean shirt tucked in his pants? His father did and interview and said that Travon was beating Zimmerman's head to the concrete...no signs of anything! They said his nose was broken! No signs of that either! You don't need to feel compassion or sympathy for an African American young man, but feel some for a young man that lost his life for absolutely no reason at all!
The Organizer

Spokane, WA

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#28
Mar 29, 2012
 
Where is the well-versed Origami Girl from Tacoma? She always seems to have spirited comments here!
Origami Girl

Tacoma, WA

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#29
Mar 30, 2012
 

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Stand down laws are just another name for the de-criminalization of murder. All someone has to do after they murder is tell the police that they were scared and create the appearance they were attacked. It helps if the murderer looks like the police and the victim doesn't, especially since the victim can never give his or her account of the situation. The KKK couldn't have done it better, I mean NRA, oops.
The Organizer wrote:
Where is the well-versed Origami Girl from Tacoma? She always seems to have spirited comments here!
Cutt101

Kissimmee, FL

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#30
Mar 30, 2012
 

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Unbiased wrote:
Travon Martin was 6 feet 2 inches tall. Lets everyone stop calling him a child or boy simply to invoke sympathy for him. Witness did indeed see Travon on top of Zimmerman as well as found Zimmerman bloodied, wet, and grass stained as if he'd been attacked.
The evidence backs up Zimmerman its as simple as that. Honestly its sad that Zimmerman is being hung out to dry simply because hes white. Had he been black there would be no calls for justice here just a closed case.
Its Zimmerman that is a victim of racism not Martin. Believe me if you are jumped by someone as big as Travon it doesn't matter if hes 17 or 71. Doesn't matter if hes black or blue. All that matters is that the "kid" is capable of beating you black and blue. Zimmerman says he acted in self defense and the evidence supports that. Case closed.
Its ridiculous for anyone to feel that Zimmerman is innocent. He is not a law inforcement officer in no since of the word. He had no right to approach Travon and question him, as instructed by the 911 operator. Once he begin to follow him, Travon became the victim and more than likely became fearfull of his own life. Zimmerman may not be a racist, but no one can be an agressor in a situation, and because the tides turn in whatever way you can imagine, then claim self defense. Who cares if he was getting his butt whiped. If George had not followed him Travon would have made his way home and would be alive today. Zimmerman was wrong!! He should be a man without the gun and admit it. Own up to what he did. Point blank!!
nunya

Gloucester, VA

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#31
Mar 30, 2012
 

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self defense plain and simple and also the media condeming this guy in public this is why innocent poeple go to jail every day news poeple need to stop creating lynch mobs led the polce and officials do what they think is appropiate and for gods sake stop threatening the family five words news created lynch mob can you say that really fast three times you poeple that think travon was murdered need to be seen by a shrink get a life
Cutt101

Kissimmee, FL

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#32
Mar 30, 2012
 

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Its ridiculous for anyone to feel that Zimmerman is innocent. He is not a law inforcement officer in no since of the word. He had no right to approach Travon and question him, as instructed by the 911 operator. Once he begin to follow him, Travon became the victim and more than likely became fearfull of his own life. Zimmerman may not be a racist, but no one can be an aggressor in a situation, and because the tides turn in whatever way you can imagine, then claim self defense after shooting. Who cares if he was getting his butt whiped. If George had not followed him Travon, there would have been no altercation and he would have made his way home and would be alive today. That is the fact and nothing else matters. Zimmerman was negligent automatically by follwing This kid. Stop making excuses for him.
nunya

Gloucester, VA

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#33
Mar 30, 2012
 
you know you poeple pull this hate crime issue up all the you need to leave the race card out of it the poeple in this country that in the past felt as if they where bieing picked out of a crowd because of thier color witch now have just as much pull in society think that just because the assume that thier bieing racialy profiled its ok to pull the so called race card sorry thi person lost thier life and sorry for the familys but the public doesent decide whos guilty and whos not
nunya

Gloucester, VA

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#34
Mar 30, 2012
 
can we all say stand your ground law and thats your lesson for today
danaina

United States

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#35
Mar 30, 2012
 

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police video shows no injuries to Zimmerman
nunya

Gloucester, VA

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#36
Mar 30, 2012
 
oho my god thats it its a conspericy here we are killing poeple for no reason now everybody feals better lets just change the laws to justifie everybodys fancy you poeple that think that zimmerman is a criminal need to see a shrink if i were in his shoes i would have reacted the same way now after i post this opinion poeple might call me a racist because of my beliefes about this and even threaten me or my family but where i come from is cornbread and chicken where i come from a lot of back porch pickin we protect our community and nieghborhoods from any or all thugs weather it be a black person whiteperson or any race so all of you poeple that think race has every thing to do with this you sir or mam are a bunch of morons?
Citizen 1

Spokane, WA

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#37
Mar 30, 2012
 
nunya wrote:
oho my god thats it its a conspericy here we are killing poeple for no reason now everybody feals better lets just change the laws to justifie everybodys fancy you poeple that think that zimmerman is a criminal need to see a shrink if i were in his shoes i would have reacted the same way now after i post this opinion poeple might call me a racist because of my beliefes about this and even threaten me or my family but where i come from is cornbread and chicken where i come from a lot of back porch pickin we protect our community and nieghborhoods from any or all thugs weather it be a black person whiteperson or any race so all of you poeple that think race has every thing to do with this you sir or mam are a bunch of morons?
Reply to Nunya:

NUNYA WHAT YOU SAY MAKES ANY SENSE. Truly, I cannot understand your blubbering rant, grammatically or otherwise. You have the audacity to call people on this site "a bunch of morons", yet you spell and punctuate like a 1st grader. I understand that spelling can be a challenge, but at least have the respect for yourself and others to attempt to make some sort of effort. Consult a dictionary, spell-checker, or someone else's brain, please, please, please. No one will respect your opinion if you do not first respect yourself and others! That is a fact.
Dee Dee

Northport, AL

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#38
Mar 30, 2012
 
Well I hear everyone talking about Travon's picture being of a younger age but what about the picture that they had of Zimmerman. At first all of the pictures were of their eariler years, Zimmerman had a picture from 2005 this is 2012, but besides that did everyone hear the full 911 call from Zimmerman as he was hustling almost out of breath following Travon, the dispatcher himself had to ask, "Are you following this person" and when he answered yes the dispatcher replied "Sir we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman replied okay as if he was going to stop following him,but then another thought comes to my mind, when the dispatcher asked sir where do you live he stated his address and then said "Oh no I shouldn't have said that so loud he may find out where I live", attempting to insinuate that he is afraid,then I wonder when he said he would wait at the mailboxes to meet the police officers how did he wind up behind some apartments where he shot Travon to death.......Hummmmm good question.
Dee Dee

Northport, AL

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#39
Mar 30, 2012
 
nunya wrote:
you know you poeple pull this hate crime issue up all the you need to leave the race card out of it the poeple in this country that in the past felt as if they where bieing picked out of a crowd because of thier color witch now have just as much pull in society think that just because the assume that thier bieing racialy profiled its ok to pull the so called race card sorry thi person lost thier life and sorry for the familys but the public doesent decide whos guilty and whos not
What do you mean you people, come on out and speak your mind, we are of the Africian American race and if the police had done their job the family of Travon Martin would not have to go behind them and try to find out what went on with their son. Africian Americians are profiled and most other races know this and feel that they can do most anything and get away with it and this is the case. I'm sure that Travon knew that he was being profiled and if he went to Zimmerman and asked him why are you following me so what, Zimmerman felt as if he had the authority to follow him after being asked not to, I'm just discusted that this had to come to this point but now our son's see what we teach them everyday, that because you're tall and of the Afro Americian decent people will claim to be afraid of you, it happens in the schools; on the streets; in the malls, most anywhere that we go.
Dee Dee

Northport, AL

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#40
Mar 30, 2012
 
nunya wrote:
can we all say stand your ground law and thats your lesson for today
I'm just comming on the site and I see that you are the real "Moron", and like the other young lady said get some spelling lessons.

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