Jesus Fails Alcoholics Anonymous

Jesus Fails Alcoholics Anonymous

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Chris Deile

Lincoln, NE

#1 Oct 22, 2013
Submitted a condensed version of "Some of Us" (see thread with that same title) to Christianity Today as a letter. Included that Jesus Christ did not let go absolutely when baptized by John otherwise he wouldn't have struggled in the Garden of Gethsemane; only after saying "It is finished" did Jesus let go absolutely.

(in its 'How It Works' AA insists the alcoholic let go absolutely or their recovery is of no avail)
Chris Deile

Lincoln, NE

#2 Oct 23, 2013
Revised 'Some of Us' to include that part about Jesus. And revised the sentence about far more severe laws are needed to deter drunk driving to say the carnage continues despite decades of court ordered AA.
Chris Deile

Lincoln, NE

#3 Oct 23, 2013
Ooops....just realized I'd been spelling strait is the gait wrong on "Some of Us'; corrected it as "strait is the gate"....
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#4 Nov 8, 2013
More on Jesus...

Attended AA meeting last night. Distributed "Some of us" there (see thread by that title). Insulted before the meeting--it aroused much intolerance and disrespectfulness. A man vehemently stated my paper would not be discussed during the meeting; others agreed with him even though he was not chairing the meeting. Granted, I hadn't wanted it discussed because when it is discussed on the group level people are argumentative and that makes it controversial instead of constructive criticism.

So I was outnumbered, and then uncomfortable in my share. They used that for ad hominem, pointing out, "If I am disturbed, there is something the matter with my spiritual condition", etc.

Problem: That passage from p.449 (3rd edition) isn't wholly true. If a person is put in an internment camp, or a concentration camp, they will naturally be quite disturbed.

Moreover, Jesus was disturbed in the Garden of Gethsemene.

Also brought to mind MLK, Jr. describing how he suffered at times great distress and depression when persecuted. Fear and emotional turmoil too, he said. That was after his house had been bombed, so it is quite understandable. Did that mean there was something wrong with his spiritual condition? No--AA members use absolutism to judge people and that is why love and tolerance is not actualized more often in its meetings.

One other point....talking to a member outside the meeting, it occurred to me the 12 traditions are violated when AA is court ordered (program of attraction not promotion). If members really valued the 12 traditions they would address that and not suppress the issue by not allowing it to be published in its AA newsletters, etc.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#5 Nov 8, 2013
Tradition 11; short form:

Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

Long form:

11.—Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think A.A. ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as A.A. members ought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.

-----

Compare "We feel it better to let our friends recommend us" w/ AA pamphlet "It Sure Beats Sitting in a Cell". Forced attendance is hardly a recommendation.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#6 Nov 8, 2013
Although the AA pamphlet "It sure beats sitting in a cell" is more about AA in prisons, people court ordered to attend AA have shared they must do so or else they will have to go to jail. That is very clearly a violation of AA tradition eleven yet it's been going on for decades.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#7 Nov 9, 2013
Spoke at another meeting last night, explained of having 28 years clean/sober and the abuse experienced in AA. Shared of how certain old timers guiding me through the steps the first time--not all of them but certain influential one's that seemed to have the best sobriety and give AA talks on occassion to standing room only crowds--that when I was troubled over not being able to find the willingness to let go absolutely as AA insists one must they responded that I was "full of sh*t"/making excuses).

That seemed like "tough love" at the time, that they were telling me an unpleasant truth. So that stuck to my forehead for many a year in AA; felt I'd not worked the steps sufficiently. And they regarded me so as well--kept me away from newcomers so I would not be spreading the disease instead of the solution.

One oldtimer stood on my foot and positioned his body between myself and I newcomer I was attempting to talk to before a meeting. That sort of thing. One woman said "We keep the sick one's away from the newcomers--that's why they become involved in AA service". Which is what happened--I turned away from "12-stepping" and involved myself in AA service work. All the while believing I was a sick person still becasue I'd failed at working AA's program of recovery as outlined in How It Works, etc.

It was actually cathartic to share all that, as I realized on a deeper level how wrong those influential oldtimers were. Realized last night too that it took reading non-AA Conference Approved information (the New York Times article about Serenity prayer author Reinhold Niebuhr--'Forgetting Reinhold Niebuhr') to learn of the concept 'absolutism' and how no human mortal has ever let go absolutely.

Made the connection that is why controlling members are so adamant about not allowing anything that is not AA Conference Approved. They don't want those they are lording it over to figure out the deception involved.

Like Chauteubriand's 'Atalya' not discovering her sin could be formally pardoned until *after* she'd taken the poison.

God help us all.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#8 Nov 9, 2013
Oooops...Chateubriand (had that right the first time but then it seemed like a "u" should go in there but it doesn't).
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#9 Nov 10, 2013
Wow. This is beautiful; love this piece:

CONCIERTO DE ARANJUEZ chitarra PACO DE LUCIA musica di JAOQUIN RODRIGO

video by macciboma

(first heard it done by Miles Davis on his Sketches of Spain--that's excellent too)
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#10 Nov 12, 2013
Forgot to mention, one man said as we were both entering an AA meeting the other night, when responding to 'Some of Us', that "there are no absolutes in AA".

That was funny, because the main point of 'Some of Us' is about AA's How It Works saying we ahve to let go absolutely, etc.

It was like hearing in a meeting "there are no musts in AA". A man heard that, then counted all the musts in the Big book and said there over 130 of them. I never confirmed whether that count was accurate or not, but it's funny how things get repeated in AA and they sound like truth at the time they're spoken.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#11 Nov 12, 2013
Paco De Lucia's Wiki page explains he is a premier flamenco guitarist. Brought to mind Dalida--she has numerous videos (really good ones) of her singing "Flamenco". Found this one of hers just now, it's quite good--there are others like it from 1959 where she is wearing that same dress and singing in a theatrical manner--they are very enjoyable videos:

Dalida Marie Marie

video by texvinrot
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#12 Nov 12, 2013
This one is sung with great feeling, and the words are enunciated so beautifully. The lyrics below the video indicate it's pessimism. Brought to mind Dostoyevsky's Underground Man. Dalida's Wiki page explains many of her mates committed suicide over the years, and then Dalida committed suicide leaving a note saying she could not go on.

Dalida - Avec le temps (live)(with lyrics)

video by josneywat
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#13 Nov 12, 2013
Terrible misfortune, as Dalida has many very entertaining videos. Here's one:

Itsi bitsi petit bikini Dalida

video by DALUIDO·636

...and her 'Love in Portifino' video by VenitienDeLevallois is a huge favorite of mine (along with her "O Sole Mio" video of course--and numerous others)
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#14 Nov 13, 2013
Spoke at a city council meeting last night, and it occurred to me again--had forgottten about it--that the man that was with me when we were attacked by the brown bear in Alaska--Keith Benner--took his own life around 10 years or so after the attack. I tied that in to religious absolutism and (tried to make the point in such a brief time span of 4 minutes allowed public comment spekaers) that AA uses religious absolutism in a guilt inducing manner. That it should not be court ordered, etc.
I'm a terrible speaker, but trying to speak out as best I can since the issue is seldom addressed publicly.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#15 Nov 13, 2013
Should explain here along with that last post (#14) that Keith was a religious missionary. He had recently returned from a mission trip to Russia when we were attacked by the bear. I don't know if Keith was ever involved in AA--we parted about six months after the attack and did not maintain correspondence--but after fining his obituary online explaining he took his own life my first thought was that religious absolutism might very well have had something to do with it. The guilt resulting from it when unable to live up to Christian ideals perfectly.
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#16 Nov 13, 2013
This is hilarious....couldn't handle the sound of this song when finding a version of this video awhile back, it's quite different...one of Michele Torr's first videos (I was born in 1964):

Michèle Torr - Dans ma rue (1964).

video by MrNonosse1
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#17 Nov 14, 2013
This is the song I'd been fixated on for like the past five years; this video version shows Michele Torr taking a more delicate approach than in her Eurovision performance of the same song (although both versions are fantastic):

Michèle Torr "Ce soir je t'attendais"

video by Ina Chansons
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#18 Nov 14, 2013
That Dans Ma Rue video really is hilarious--just viewed it again. Sounds like the sound was run through an electric voice synthesizer or soemthing though--it doesn't sound natural. Cocky Mazzetti has a video where she sings a song around that same time and the sound is somewhat similar--quite unnatural as though it were electroncially tweaked somehow. But love Michele Torr there and what she's wearing...funny!
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#19 Nov 14, 2013
This one, though I really like the song (just noticed the album cover has "fine" written in the grass):

Cocki Mazzetti - La Fine Di Tutto (1965)

video by LeIntrovabili4
Chris Deile

Topeka, KS

#20 Nov 14, 2013
Love this video. It's only a year after Dans Ma Rue but has quite a different sound:

Michèle Torr La grande chanson 1965 séquence discorama

video by Franck Guilpain

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