AA's Teachings Can Cause False Guilt

AA's Teachings Can Cause False Guilt

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Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#1 Jun 12, 2014
As Bill Sees It, p.204:

Note below the concept "a degree of perfection"-- AA teaching God desires us to have only a degree of perfection. This is quite reasonable. However, it then goes on to say: "..But in no case does He render us white as snow and keep us that way without our cooperation". Which is a false implication. That concept implies the only reason we are not rendered white as snow and kept that way by God is due to our non-cooperation. But no human mortal has ever been rendered white as snow, ever been made perfect, and of course AA emphasizes that elsewhere, obfuscating this teaching that can induce false guilt. That happens throughout AA literature--noticeable once you begin to look for it.

Here it is in full:

"Since most of us are born with an abundance of natural desires,
it isn't strange that we often let these far exceed their intended purpose.
When they drive us blindly, or we willfully demand that they supply us
with more satisfactions or pleasures than are possible or due us, that
is the point at which we depart from the degree of perfection that God
wishes for us here on earth. That is the measure of our character
defects, or, if you wish, of our sins."
"If we ask, God will certainly forgive our derelictions. But in no case
does He render us white as snow and keep us that way without our cooperation.
That is something we are supposed to be willing to work
toward ourselves. He asks only that we try as best we know how to make
progress in the building of character." ("As Bill Sees It", p.204)
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#2 Jun 12, 2014
YouTube:

Jocelyne Jocya "Il Ne Fallait Pas"

...just found it recently--love it. Great sounding song. Translated the title online just now, and kind of funny, it applies here: "It Should Not Be". Jocelyne Jocya has a lot of good ones, I must be one of the few who know since her videos have so few views. Her "Ton Adieu" is awesome, "Bon Voyage", Ce Joli La Mer, etc. etc.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#3 Jun 12, 2014
That As Bill See's It'(above) is just one example. See my thread on here "Some of Us" for more.

I just shared in an AA meeting about how the nature of religion involves same. Like reading a bible verse that leaves you guilt ridden, only to discover years later a different verse explaining away the guilt of the former. That sort of thing can go on for a lifetime. AA same way.
Funny, shared in the meeting about Chateaubriand's Atalya, about how Atalya wasn't told her sin could be officially pardoned (by the Catholic Church in 1800's) until *after* she'd taken the poison [Atalya committed suicide after breaking her religious vow of chastity].

Did I say funny? Ooops. Tragic rather. Absolutism in religion and AA can casue much unnecessary suffering. I've been burdened by false guilt for many years Getting out of some of it by taking a more critical view of AA's teachings. Amazing the change in perspective on manyof these things. Hardly noticed over all the years of attending AA.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#4 Jun 12, 2014
Forgot to mention (when listing great Jocelyne Jocya songs aove):

Jocelyne JOCYA Par ce cri
.

video by jean-marie puigmal

...Love "par ce cri"!
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#5 Jun 12, 2014
This is pretty funny...came up after Sylvie Vartan's "Quand un amour renait {Walk Away Renee]" video; the title might be messed up when posting here since it looks like its partly in Bulgarian or something (I think Sylvie Vartan was from Bulgaria); but it's the video posted by Llyrics TV that has both Sylvie Vartan and Sheila in it:

Си&#10 83;ьв& #1080; Ва&#10 88;та& #1085;-Sylvie Vartan
.

video by Llyrics TV
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#6 Jun 12, 2014
Whoa! Sure did come out messed up! Don't know how to recommend people retrieve it on YouTube other than going through her Walk Away Renee video and hope the other pops up (since they are both by Llyrics TV...or just go to Llyrics TV channel I guess...)
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#7 Jun 13, 2014
Just notice the first post here (above) written sloppy. Should have put the "As Bill Sees it, p.204" under the exact quote instead of above my own commentary leading off.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#8 Jun 13, 2014
Okay...figured out the easiest way to get that Sylvie Vartan video (w/clips of her and Sheila) is to click into her Quand un amour renait [Walk Away Renee] video and then select amongst the videos in the sidebar the one showing Sylvie Vartan smiling with the Bulgarian writing, one word of which looks like Baptah or something. It's a fun video.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#9 Jun 13, 2014
Numerous great videos of Sheila's Adios Amor...here's another:

Sheila - Adios amor
.

video by SheilaClub
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#10 Jun 13, 2014
Love the way Jocelyne Jocya rolls her "r"s in this one; fun photo of her holding the tiger cub--such a lovely smile:

Jocelyne JOCYA La plus haute colline
.

video by jean-marie puigmal
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#11 Jun 13, 2014
Nice one...only posted 2 weeks ago...mine are the 4th and 5th views; 6th too:

Jocelyne JOCYA Demain
.

video by ean-marie puigmal

Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#12 Jun 13, 2014
This song is so beautiful; only 267 views and it's been up over a year:

Miranda Martino -'E STELLE CADENTE (Amurri,Pisano)
.

video by FEDE RICO
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#13 Jun 13, 2014
Sylvie Vartan "la plus belle pour aller danser" (live officiel)- Archive INA
.

video by Ina Chansons
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#14 Jun 14, 2014
In the AA meeting the other day, step 2 of 12X12 was read, wherein it recommends the newcomer make the AA group their higher power. I spoke how that can backfire real fast when group members promptly begin to lord it over you, deliberately keeping the newcomer forever inferiorized and dependent upon them through numerous false teachings.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#15 Jun 14, 2014
Also, that chapter 2 said religion claims it can prove the existence of God (whereas agnostics are indifferent and atheists believe God does not exist.). However, I've been studying Christian religion for decades, and although I still don't know much on the subject, cannot ever recall religion claiming it can prove the existence of God. Rather that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. That one doesn't know if God exists or not but chooses to believe so through faith. But it's not a matter of certainty since who can or ever has proven it? That's the tone of Serenity Prayer author Reinhold Niebuhr anyhow.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#16 Jun 14, 2014
Love this one too; beautiful...hadn't heard it before--looks likes it's off her Bon Voyage:

Le mur Jocelyne Jocya
.

ideo by jean-marie puigmal
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#17 Jun 14, 2014
Classic...Jacquelne Boyer's mother (like Jacqueline, very, very pleasant):

French chanson: Lucienne Boyer - Le Plus Joli Rêve, 1931
.

video by 240252

:
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#18 Jun 14, 2014
Just listened again; I still don't know French, but that Lucienne Boyer video (above) sounds fabulous.
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#19 Jun 14, 2014
This is really enjoyable too; great photo's:

JACQUELINE BOYER , Je ne sais plus ( Lesley Gore - You Don't Own Me )
.

video by lesdemsoul bramhs
Bruce Deile

Olympia, WA

#20 Jun 14, 2014
Found this yesterday--it's outstanding! Love it; love Jocelye Jocya's photo's too...along with many of her videos, her photo's are really fun to view.

Jocelyne JOCYA Demain
.

jvieo by ean-marie puigmal

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