Ind. 267 swap gets mixed reactions

Feb 27, 2008 Read more: The Indianapolis Star 10
Hall Virgil sees no losers in the proposed trade of Ind. 267 and Ronald Reagan Parkway. Read more
Judy Sorrentino

United States

#1 Feb 27, 2008
St. road 267 in Brownsburg has become a parking lot durning rush hour and mid day. Would Ronald Reagan Blvd,
. help this problem? If so swap 267.
sprawl county

United States

#2 Feb 27, 2008
Judy Sorrentino wrote:
St. road 267 in Brownsburg has become a parking lot durning rush hour and mid day. Would Ronald Reagan Blvd,
. help this problem? If so swap 267.
The reality of highway building:

If you build it, they will congest.

If you want to get cars off the road, then give people alternatives.

Encourage them to carpool, encourage big companies to develop transit options in-house - like company vans, and work with the Indy MPO on developing mass transit options. Starting with buses.

The Ronnie Raygun Sprawlway is just that - a means to open more territory to sprawl developers. Which means lots more traffic. You're hosed from the git-go.

"It was scheduled to be built in 2008 but it seems Major Moves doesn't concern itself with our traffic problems."

No, Mr. Dillman, "Major Moves" was designed to make My Highwayman Mitch look good. It was a crappy, expensive payday loan on terrible terms to begin with. It's not the endless cornucopia he claims it is. The only way that Indiana's infrastructure NEEDS (versus "highways of choice" like an outer beltway or I-69), from bridges to sidewalks, are going to be adequately funded is by raising the state gas tax.
Rob C

Michigan City, IN

#3 Feb 27, 2008
sprawl county wrote:
<quoted text>
The reality of highway building:
If you build it, they will congest.
If you build it in the right place, yes. But the same is true with ANY form of transit -- if you build it in a place where there is demand, people will use it. And if there is more demand than capacity, it will become congested. That is true for light rail, for buses, for sidewalks, or for any other method of transit you can think of.

The problem with mass transit is that it only works when everyone is going to the same place. And, in a wide-open, spread-out city like Indianapolis, people live and work all over the place -- not just downtown.

Hendricks County has needed an additional north-south road option for a LONG time. The Ronald Reagan Parkway fills that obvious need. As such, I'm in favor of building the road.

What I don't like, though, is the way Hendricks County seems to have cooked this thing up from the beginning. They never had a plan for fully funding the parkway. It's almost like they expected to have the state bail them out after they started.

Add to it the fact that they've always planned the parkway to connect into IN-267 north of Brownsburg to reach I-65 (instead of the more obvious connection at the IN-334 interchange), and it suggests to me that they've been planning this "swap" from the beginning.
Old Boiler

Indianapolis, IN

#4 Feb 27, 2008
sprawl county wrote:
<quoted text>
The reality of highway building:
If you build it, they will congest.
If you want to get cars off the road, then give people alternatives.
Encourage them to carpool, encourage big companies to develop transit options in-house - like company vans, and work with the Indy MPO on developing mass transit options. Starting with buses.
The Ronnie Raygun Sprawlway is just that - a means to open more territory to sprawl developers. Which means lots more traffic. You're hosed from the git-go.
"It was scheduled to be built in 2008 but it seems Major Moves doesn't concern itself with our traffic problems."
No, Mr. Dillman, "Major Moves" was designed to make My Highwayman Mitch look good. It was a crappy, expensive payday loan on terrible terms to begin with. It's not the endless cornucopia he claims it is. The only way that Indiana's infrastructure NEEDS (versus "highways of choice" like an outer beltway or I-69), from bridges to sidewalks, are going to be adequately funded is by raising the state gas tax.
Thanks for the opinion of the only "Whacko Liberal in Hendricks County". You stuck you dic* in your mouth when you called Reagan Raygun. Jeez, I thought all you peacenicks had gorwn and wised up.

Think about what this dude really wants. He wants to give other people the power and ability to tell you what you will do inreagrds to your personal transportation. Sorry Dude, you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers away from that steering wheel.
Old Boiler

Indianapolis, IN

#5 Feb 27, 2008
Rob C wrote:
<quoted text>
If you build it in the right place, yes. But the same is true with ANY form of transit -- if you build it in a place where there is demand, people will use it. And if there is more demand than capacity, it will become congested. That is true for light rail, for buses, for sidewalks, or for any other method of transit you can think of.
The problem with mass transit is that it only works when everyone is going to the same place. And, in a wide-open, spread-out city like Indianapolis, people live and work all over the place -- not just downtown.
Hendricks County has needed an additional north-south road option for a LONG time. The Ronald Reagan Parkway fills that obvious need. As such, I'm in favor of building the road.
What I don't like, though, is the way Hendricks County seems to have cooked this thing up from the beginning. They never had a plan for fully funding the parkway. It's almost like they expected to have the state bail them out after they started.
Add to it the fact that they've always planned the parkway to connect into IN-267 north of Brownsburg to reach I-65 (instead of the more obvious connection at the IN-334 interchange), and it suggests to me that they've been planning this "swap" from the beginning.
Very good points except for the tie-in. A tie-in at 334 won't work although it was studied as an alternative. Tieing into I-65 at the SR 267/I-65 Interchange works better and is just a mile por so south of 146th Street from Hamilton County. Plans are for 146th Street to be 4 lanes from I-69 all the way west to just north of the SR 267/I-65 interchange. Proivides a 4 roadway all the way from I-69 west and south to SR 67 just north of Mooresville.
David Scherer

Indianapolis, IN

#6 Feb 27, 2008
I agree with the idea of swapping the two - forcing the owners of the buildings in downtown Brownsburg to move their businesses so that the road will be wide enough is preposterous. I know one of the tennents in one of the buildings is a barbershop that has been in the same location since 1921. Tearing down one of the last buildings in this section of town is not feasable as it is to complete the RR Parkway would be - especially since it would be tied to the distribution facilities located in both Brownsburg and Plainfield as well as those along I65 to the north.
Rob C

Michigan City, IN

#7 Feb 27, 2008
Old Boiler wrote:
<quoted text>
Very good points except for the tie-in. A tie-in at 334 won't work although it was studied as an alternative. Tieing into I-65 at the SR 267/I-65 Interchange works better and is just a mile por so south of 146th Street from Hamilton County. Plans are for 146th Street to be 4 lanes from I-69 all the way west to just north of the SR 267/I-65 interchange. Proivides a 4 roadway all the way from I-69 west and south to SR 67 just north of Mooresville.
But one of the biggest transit problems in Hendricks County is a lack of access to the north side of Indy. From Brownsburg, you either have to take I-74 (essentially going south to go north), or take 56th Street (and backtrack all over to find a north-bound onramp to I-465), or travel backroads to either 86th Street or SR 334.

Routing the Ron Reagan over to SR 267 does nothing to alleviate this. Nobody in their right mind would want to trek all the way to Whitestown just to get onto I-465 eastbound. And why go even further west just to backtrack to the east anyway?

No, the only way it makes sense to route the Ron Reagan to SR 267 is if you plan for it to REPLACE 267 instead of augmenting it.

(Of course, a lot of these problems could be solved if they'd just extend I-865 to connect to I-74 near Pittsboro.)
Dave

Indianapolis, IN

#8 Feb 27, 2008
Whether you like spawl or not, it's a reality. Hendricks County has a infrastructure crisis that should have been planned for long ago. Instead of the Ronald Reagan Parkway, SR 267, could have moved north of US 40 to the Dan Jones/Hornaday road corridor. This would have placed this much needed road closer to the town centers of Plainfield, Avon and Brownsburg.(This also would have been a much easier rail crossing than the current configuration).

Regarding Light Rail here's some Information from the Thoreau Institute. "Wendell Cox likes to say that transit is really about downtown... that transit is really only an important mode of travel in urban areas with a huge number -- roughly a half-million or more -- centrally located jobs. That pretty much limits it to six urban areas: New York, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Washington.

The numbers show that rail transit does pretty well in New York and makes a marginal showing in the other five cities. Elsewhere, it is insignificant when measured by market share of travel, and it has particularly failed in cities that have mainly grown in the last fifty years, such as Dallas, San Diego, and San Jose."

So the answer is better roads not mass transit.
RIP

Indianapolis, IN

#9 Feb 27, 2008
Thanks Hendricks county for leaving 100 South looking like crap for so long, maybe the voters will recall the mess on election day.
Dave

Greens Fork, IN

#10 Feb 27, 2008
I do agree that the State of Indiana should share the cost of or completing
Ronald Regand Parkway (NEW 267). Reason being that the traffic that is bypassed from I465 would be flowing through this throughfare eliminating congestion on the west side . The State would be getting a real deal in the exchange ,and at the same time eliminating part of the traffic problem at rush hour ..

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