Former preacher arrested for alleged ...
really

Carlisle, SC

#163 Mar 18, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text>You said it here.
Actually that was God talking through his inspired word. tjohn, you have no desire to be open to the interpretation of any of the verses and points that explain what we believe and why we believe. Your hatred and bigotry is blatantly evident.

Matthew 5:11

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

Matthew 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

Now regarding the old law and new law

Hebrews 8:13 ESV

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Romans 7:6 ESV

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Galatians 3:23-25 ESV

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

Luke 22:20 ESV

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying,“This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).
Well

Carlisle, SC

#164 Mar 18, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text> I can post more of your post and then I can bring up other threads where you say the same thing. I know the COC mantra and the one passage they use to claim they are the only true church . Ephesians 4:4-6
You have quoted that passage numerous times on this thread and on a few other threads .
So, please don`t try to back peddle and claim I am liar when we both know that you believe the COC cult is the one and only true church of Christ.
Then YOU explain the scripture or openly deny it as you seem to...

Ephesians: 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 gone God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

“Cheese to go w/ that whine?”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#165 Mar 18, 2013
coC2 wrote:
@Tjohn if the church that is described in the NewTestament, established on the day of Pentecost, bought and paid for by the his shed blood and the bride of Christ is not the church of Christ then what is it??? And if a church follows that example in the New Testament then what is it??
I say a church (any church) that follows the Bible is a church worthy of members getting to Heaven. My thoughts are the same as yours, but when the Church tells others they won't get to Heaven UNLESS they are Baptized, they are perhaps creating man's law not God's law. I believe in Baptisim, you guys apparently have missed me saying that. But ... from what I have learned during my Bible learning is that one does it as a cleansing of sins, an outward sign of your salvation and because this pleases God.

However, if someone is saved, they are saved through the blood of Christ not through the sprinkling or dunking into water. More or less a ritual.

So, hypothetically if a church is creating man's laws to form a congregation, they are teaching others that that the law they created is from God, and they are making some people who don't quite understand what is going on turn away from ANY teachings of God ...IS THIS NOT JUST PLAIN OLE WRONG?
trying hard

Carlisle, SC

#166 Mar 19, 2013
With all due respect, how many verses does the Bible need to mention the necessity of baptism for salvation rather than discount it as a ritual? There are so, so many times it is cited as a step to salvation. Is this what you are calling man's law?
Well

Murfreesboro, TN

#167 Mar 19, 2013
trying hard wrote:
With all due respect, how many verses does the Bible need to mention the necessity of baptism for salvation rather than discount it as a ritual? There are so, so many times it is cited as a step to salvation. Is this what you are calling man's law?
IMHO the most simple and direct definition of baptisim as stated by scripture.
1 Peter 3:21
21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
- baptisim doth also now save us
- NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh (a work)
- BUT the answer of a good conscience toward God
Baptisim is between the man and God, not for the purpose of public proclimation.
- whereby the act receives it's power by Jesus' victory over the grave.
Romans 6 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
- baptisim replicates Jesus' death, burial and most importantly, His resurection- the "old man", the sinful one, the one of the world, dies in baptisim
- the "new man" is raised up to walk in the newness of life
- the "new man" no longer "serves sin", a Christian
- versus 8: one must be dead to sin ( as Christ died for mankinds sin), to live with Him....baptisim
Baptisim is the beginning of the new life, the scripture can say it no plainer. However, one must believe, have faith, confess Jesus before men prior to this...all scriptural. As well, one must continue in the faith.
Sorry to be long winded.lol
Well

Murfreesboro, TN

#168 Mar 19, 2013
IveGotAName wrote:
<quoted text>
I say a church (any church) that follows the Bible is a church worthy of members getting to Heaven. My thoughts are the same as yours, but when the Church tells others they won't get to Heaven UNLESS they are Baptized, they are perhaps creating man's law not God's law. I believe in Baptisim, you guys apparently have missed me saying that. But ... from what I have learned during my Bible learning is that one does it as a cleansing of sins, an outward sign of your salvation and because this pleases God.
However, if someone is saved, they are saved through the blood of Christ not through the sprinkling or dunking into water. More or less a ritual.
So, hypothetically if a church is creating man's laws to form a congregation, they are teaching others that that the law they created is from God, and they are making some people who don't quite understand what is going on turn away from ANY teachings of God ...IS THIS NOT JUST PLAIN OLE WRONG?
Agreed, and THAT is the point....that a "church" follow the bible. As human beings we associate things by name. So, as with churches, we tend to associate the doctrine (the way) with the name.

The point, the very heart of this debate, as you've directly stated is....do they follow the Bible.

“Cheese to go w/ that whine?”

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#169 Mar 19, 2013
trying hard wrote:
With all due respect, how many verses does the Bible need to mention the necessity of baptism for salvation rather than discount it as a ritual? There are so, so many times it is cited as a step to salvation. Is this what you are calling man's law?
That's a fair question. So far every single verse posted does mention Baptisim as an act of faith not as a requirement. But can you explain this verse:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It says ... THAT WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH. It does not say whosoever believeth and be Baptized.

And I do know the difference between when Jesus ordered Baptisim. Now that this debate has continued and I have seen the reasonings, I get why the Church of Christ and other churches believe as they do, what is so discerning is that some are telling folks they can't get to Heaven w/out it.

God gave many commands. Start with the 10 commandments. How many of those are broken on a regular basis? What about the seven so called deadly sins? What about selfishness, self-righteousness, gluttony, sex outside of marriage, marriage to a non-believer, blasphemy, gossiping, not caring for the sick or home bound, what about homosexuality?

I was Baptized in a Presbyterian church (sprinkled) when I was 12. At 18 I joined a Baptist church and was Baptized by immersion. When I witness to other people I concentrate on the act of accepting Jesus Christ as Savior and then encourage Baptisim as it is the right thing to do. I often wonder how any church or any denomination can pick out one thing that is sinful and pronounce it to be eternal damnation.

Right or wrong ... I believe that faith and belief is what saves the soul. I was taught the only unforgivable sin was the denying of Jesus Christ as savior and that is the only sin that can send you to hell. I was also taught that you are not saved by acts and that John 3:16 is the gospel of Jesus Christ in cliff notes.

The problem here is that Church of Christ, Baptist, Presbyterian and most all Christian beliefs uses the Bible as their road map we just can't seem to all come together on what streets to take.

Since: Jul 10

Columbia, TN

#170 Mar 19, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>
Then YOU explain the scripture or openly deny it as you seem to...
Ephesians: 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 gone God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
I openly deny that that verse means only one group or one church is the only true church. I know of many believers who are born-again and they do not go to a church of Christ but you say they are going to hell because they don`t go to your church and please don`t lie to me again because I know thats what you believe.

Let me ask you a question. If you are the only true church as you believe does everybody who goes to a COC go to heaven ?

Since: Jul 10

Columbia, TN

#171 Mar 19, 2013
really wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually that was God talking through his inspired word. tjohn, you have no desire to be open to the interpretation of any of the verses and points that explain what we believe and why we believe. Your hatred and bigotry is blatantly evident.
Matthew 5:11
Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
Now regarding the old law and new law
Hebrews 8:13 ESV
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Romans 7:6 ESV
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
Galatians 3:23-25 ESV
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian
Luke 22:20 ESV
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying,“This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).
First. You need to get KJV

second. If you think me questioning your belief that you are the ones going to heaven is " using you, cursing , or persecuting you then are in serious need of some courage. What are you gonna do when those things really happen ? Give an answer to way you believe what you believe.

Third. Not sure why you posted the last part of your post about the law concerning the O.T and the N.T it is not germain to this topic even though I do agree with you .
Well

Murfreesboro, TN

#172 Mar 19, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text>I openly deny that that verse means only one group or one church is the only true church. I know of many believers who are born-again and they do not go to a church of Christ but you say they are going to hell because they don`t go to your church and please don`t lie to me again because I know thats what you believe.
Let me ask you a question. If you are the only true church as you believe does everybody who goes to a COC go to heaven ?
The Church being the body of Christ, then you deny the body of Christ will inherit the Kingdom. Interesting.

I'll do you one better and take the talk outside of "THE" Church of Christ.... I BELIEVE THE ONLY ONES THAT...."speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." ...WILL BE THE ONLY ONES GOING TO HEAVEN.

Divide'em up into whatever configurations you like, as long as they are united in the things they say, the things they think and the same judgement.
dont say it

Sparta, TN

#173 Mar 19, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>
1 John 1:
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
"don't say it" Christians sin. However, because they are Christians they have the avenue of forgiveness in prayer. That is a privilage of Christians, not non-believers. Just a little scripture for your arguement.
TY I appreciate that, NOT THAT IT WILL DO ANY GOOD TO PEOPLE WHOM LIKE TO ARGUE ABOUT EVERYTHING,lol Have a great day and God Bless Ya
prayers

Pleasant Hill, TN

#174 Mar 19, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text>I openly deny that that verse means only one group or one church is the only true church. I know of many believers who are born-again and they do not go to a church of Christ but you say they are going to hell because they don`t go to your church and please don`t lie to me again because I know thats what you believe.
Let me ask you a question. If you are the only true church as you believe does everybody who goes to a COC go to heaven ?
no only tha faithful ones.
Well

Carlisle, SC

#175 Mar 19, 2013
“For the law (old), having a shadow of the good things to come (new), and not the very image of the things,”…..”But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins (old).”

“And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant (new), by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.”

“For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

“For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.”…Jesus’ testament was not in effect at the time He personally gave forgiveness to the thief on the cross

"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant (new) with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah- not according to the covenant (old) that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt”

"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises”

“13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

'Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.'

'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.'

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross (old)

Although it had it's purpose and still does, the old law offered nothing for mans salvation. Salvation came by the shedding of Jesus' blood and His testament.

Since: Jul 10

Columbia, TN

#176 Mar 19, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church being the body of Christ, then you deny the body of Christ will inherit the Kingdom. Interesting.
I'll do you one better and take the talk outside of "THE" Church of Christ.... I BELIEVE THE ONLY ONES THAT...."speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." ...WILL BE THE ONLY ONES GOING TO HEAVEN.
Divide'em up into whatever configurations you like, as long as they are united in the things they say, the things they think and the same judgement.
I think I`ve proved my point. It`s like beating a dead horse talking to COC cult members. The COC is not the body of Christ nor is it even a christian church. The COC cult thinks it`s works will save their souls when the Bible says they are as filthy rags. That is why COC cult members are self-rightious sinners. They think they have to earn it and has earned it thats why the COC cult thinks the rest of the world is going to hell when in fact drunks, pimps and drug addicts will enter into the kingdom before the COC cult members.
really

Carlisle, SC

#177 Mar 19, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you a question. If you are the only true church as you believe does everybody who goes to a COC go to heaven ?
no, but that's not for me to decide. God is the one and only judge.
really

Carlisle, SC

#178 Mar 19, 2013
TJohn wrote:
<quoted text>I think I`ve proved my point. It`s like beating a dead horse talking to COC cult members. The COC is not the body of Christ nor is it even a christian church. The COC cult thinks it`s works will save their souls when the Bible says they are as filthy rags. That is why COC cult members are self-rightious sinners. They think they have to earn it and has earned it thats why the COC cult thinks the rest of the world is going to hell when in fact drunks, pimps and drug addicts will enter into the kingdom before the COC cult members.
You really are disturbed and have serious issues. I hope you are able to get the help you need to shed your bigotry and hate. I, personally, will reply to you no more. You are not a reasonable person capable of intelligent discussion. I will, however, pray for you.
hi there

Sparta, TN

#179 Mar 19, 2013
dont say it wrote:
<quoted text>
AGAIN, you are NOT NOT NOT listening.....YES I know that sinning is wrong....never said it wasn't!!!!!!!!! YES I know that you do NOT do wrong and use God for a sin ticket, that is EXACTLY what I am saying!!!!!!!!!! I am saying I REPENT DAILY, where I do anything or not, just to make sure things are ok between me and God, not me and you.....now how you do it, is your business, but I will continue to repent DAILY.....I know repent means turn from it, but we are still human and we DO mess up and WHEN AND IF I do mess up, I REPENT, I did NOT NOT NOT say anything about I live the way I want to and repent and think everything is ok. You know NOTHING about me and you are taking everything out of context! I am VERY HARD ON MYSELF, if I slip up, I feel bad for days, even though I know God has forgiven me because I have asked Him, but because I should have been stronger and not do whatever I do......So therefore comes repenting...just my way of doing things, my way of staying pure before God, it works for me, you have to find your own way
I am wanting to know your difference in SAVED and REPENT. You are not telling me. I cant Listen if you are not answering the question. I dont think you understand the true meaning of repent.

When you repent you are asking for God's help to guide you to him, yes EVERYDAY you ask for his help. Asking for forgiveness for sinning everyday is asking to be saved everyday.

If you believe committing a sin tomorrow and not asking for forgiveness for that and other sins will not get you into heaven unless you are washed of that sin or others by asking for forgiveness, yes that is being saved.

I would love to actually know your difference on your belief of SAVED and REPENT but for some unknown reason you are not saying.
So so sad

United States

#180 Mar 19, 2013
I feel so sorry for this man's wife and children.
whatsup

North Augusta, SC

#181 Mar 20, 2013
alot of churches are bogus to me,anymore its not about the sick,homeless,or your soul,its about the money in that offering on sunday.some thinks their church or attending at any of them will take you to heaven. i,m sorry but i can live my life probably more righteous than some that portray they are a devout christian when they are nothing more than a hypocrite

Since: Jul 10

United States

#182 Mar 20, 2013
really wrote:
<quoted text>
no, but that's not for me to decide. God is the one and only judge.
My question you answered wasn`t directed at you but since you answered it I will say I agree with the answer you have given.

That is the point I have been trying to prove. God is the one and the only judge yet the COC cult says they are the one and ONLY true church and claim everybody esle is going to hell if they are not COC. Seems like the COC has set themselves up as God when they condemn others to hell.

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