victims

New York, NY

#59 Dec 16, 2012
Nancy Lanza, 52, perpetrator's mother
Rachel Davino, 29, teacher
Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, 47, principal
Anne Marie Murphy, 52, teacher
Lauren Rousseau, 30, teacher
Mary Sherlach, 56, school psychologist
Victoria Soto, 27, teacher
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Dylan Hockley, 6
Madeline F. Hsu, 6
Catherine Violet Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 6
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison N. Wyatt, 6
Hey

Manchester, TN

#60 Dec 16, 2012
sriracha wrote:
Hey TTH PRETTY sure you'll be interested in this chart showing social and political correlates with gun deaths.
And...I am sure you will be just as interested in the long list of devastation concerning the psyche meds.
SSRI"adverse reactions"are actually expected,understandable and therefore should not be suprising to physicians. They are not exactly side effects.
you can check out the long list of homicides and suicides being committed on these legal drugs.
The Daily Paul"What Are The Bets The Ct Shooter Was On Psyche meds"
victims

Sparta, TN

#62 Dec 16, 2012
Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
And...I am sure you will be just as interested in the long list of devastation concerning the psyche meds.
Actually, I am interested in this research. Please feel free to provide me with some medical and scientific evidence that psych meds are causing gun massacres.

I'm already aware of various issues like black-box warnings on anti-depressants, which are important because sometimes their first effect is to elevate mood just enough to facilitate suicide. I've never seen anything linking them to murders, however.
bubba

Quebeck, TN

#63 Dec 16, 2012
People that believe taking guns from law abiding citizens will stop gun violence are so stupid. Move down to east Nashville and display a big sign on your door THERE ARE NO GUNS IN THIS HOUSE. see how long you last.
Proposal

Charlotte, NC

#65 Dec 16, 2012
A former adviser to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign called Saturday for a concerted national conversation on gun control, saying the country cannot continue “doing nothing” after the elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn., that left dozens dead, including 20 children.

Mark DeMoss, the Christian conservative public relations executive, told POLITICO that placing some limits on guns wouldn’t have to conflict with constitutional liberties, as many on the right contend.

“I’m a conservative and a Republican, and I believe in the Constitution and all of the amendments. But the reality is, there are restrictions on lots of our freedoms,” DeMoss said.“We cherish the freedom of speech, but it doesn’t give you the right to yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”

DeMoss continued:“I have trouble defending a position that says there should be no restrictions on any guns or ammunition, and this slippery slope argument that if you allow the slightest bit of [gun] control, then that’s the start of taking away all our freedoms.

“Somebody’s got to break ranks on one side or the other, it seems to me, and talk in a rational and thoughtful way, which will probably come with great risk to whoever does that,” he said.“I imagine a Republican who speaks on this will probably be opposed in their next election.”
TTH

San Jose, CA

#66 Dec 16, 2012
victims wrote:
<quoted text>
On the other hand, actual facts and data from the UK and Australia, whose widespread handgun restrictions in the wake of school shootings led to dramatic drops in gun violence.
Hmm... opinions vs. facts and data...
On the other hand, show us some facts and data from the UK that show a reduction in violent crime as a result of widespread handgun restrictions. I don't care about a report from another talking head. I want to see actual numbers or else stick the proverbial sock in it.
Also correlate with illicit drug use in the UK or I can do that if you cannot. You cannot use what has always been historically low numbers as an indicator of a change when no change occurred. I will not let you get away with twisting the numbers on here.
TTH

San Jose, CA

#67 Dec 16, 2012
Will one of the anti gun crowd please indicate to me how gun control would have in any way prevented the tragedy in Connecticut? There are more unregistered firearms in the US than registered. Maybe it is just me but I cannot imagine a sick enough individual or a drug fried mind being too concerned whether or not a firearm is legal before the criminal act.
victims

Atlanta, GA

#68 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
<quoted text>
On the other hand, show us some facts and data from the UK that show a reduction in violent crime as a result of widespread handgun restrictions. I don't care about a report from another talking head. I want to see actual numbers or else stick the proverbial sock in it.
Also correlate with illicit drug use in the UK or I can do that if you cannot. You cannot use what has always been historically low numbers as an indicator of a change when no change occurred. I will not let you get away with twisting the numbers on here.
Here's some information on the acts that banned handgun possession in the UK. Note these were passed in 1997, because that time frame will be relevant for the NUMBERS below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_ (Amendment)_Act_1997
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_ (Amendment)_(No._2)_Act_1997

And data showing the trends in gun violence in the UK since those were passed:
"In 2010/11, firearms were involved in 11,227 recorded offences in England and Wales,
the ***seventh consecutive annual fall*** and a decrease of 13 per cent compared with the
previous year (when 12,976 offences were recorded)."
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/sci...

"Figure 4 shows increases in the number of violent incidents from the early eighties to 1995. This was followed by a period of steep decreases, with the latest estimates being 17 per cent lower than those observed from the 2006/07 survey, and 51 per cent lower than in 1995. The CSEW estimated 3 in every 100 adults were a victim of violent crime according to the 2011/12 survey, compared with 5 in 100 adults in 1995."
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/cri...

"The murder rate in England and Wales has fallen from 644 to 619 over the last year to its lowest level for 12 years.

Official Home Office figures published today also show that overall crime fell 5% according to the British Crime Survey and by 7% according to police figures in the year to September 2010.

The latest set of quarterly crime figures suggest that the sustained long-term trend in the fall of crime since 1995 by more than 45% has continued despite the economic recession and the accelerating rise in unemployment.

The fall in the murder rate in the 12 months to September 2010 was accompanied by a 9% fall in gun crime and a 6% fall in knife offences. The 619 deaths recorded on the homicide index was the lowest since the 606 murders in 1997/98. In 2009/10 , 421 victims were male and 198 were female.

The murder rate in England and Wales over the past 50 years rose steadily from around 300 a year in the early 1960s to more than 1,000 in 2002/03 when 172 deaths were attributed to the activities of Dr Harold Shipman. They have declined sharply since that peak with the fall in domestic violence providing part of the explanation for the decline."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/20/murd...

6.6 percent of murders in the UK occur with a firearm, compared to 60% in the US. There's a sortable chart with this and other infromation at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/...

You can do your own correlation with illicit drug use if you somehow feel that it is relevant.
victims

Atlanta, GA

#69 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
Will one of the anti gun crowd please indicate to me how gun control would have in any way prevented the tragedy in Connecticut? There are more unregistered firearms in the US than registered. Maybe it is just me but I cannot imagine a sick enough individual or a drug fried mind being too concerned whether or not a firearm is legal before the criminal act.
Because it's hard to shoot people without any guns, hth.
WTH

Manchester, TN

#70 Dec 16, 2012
May I ask how you will get the criminals to turn in their guns? These are the ones I am concerned about.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/12/14/the-fe...
TTH

Cookeville, TN

#71 Dec 16, 2012
I wouldn't exactly call Wikipedia a valid source of information but since you started the trend let me ask you about this one:

In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_Uni...

If your premise is to be considered as valid how would you explain a nearly 10% decrease in violent crime in the US "without" gun control?
TTH

Cookeville, TN

#72 Dec 16, 2012
WTH he has already indicated that he favors government seizure of private property. In other words enter your home and take them.
sriracha

Atlanta, GA

#73 Dec 16, 2012
A massive buyback program, restrictions on new large-capacity semi-automatic rifles and handguns, and more extensive annual training and mental health screening requirements for ongoing gun licenses would be a nice start. Gun collectors are not a major concern for me, as they tend to be paranoid enough about their guns to secure them and to take them as a serious dangerous object. I just want to raise the barrier to entry so that someone can't just walk into sporting goods store and walk out with a high-capacity rifle, shotgun or handgun half an hour later.

I would also support laws that make it a crime to not report a stolen gun (I believe these exist already in some places) and that penalize gun owners who have weapons stolen that were not secured in a safe or at the least a trigger lock.

It's not a perfect solution, but even if some small steps like this reduce gun violence by 1% annually you've saved 300 lives a year. It would also foster a greater respect for these dangerous items.

What is immensely frustrating is that there is no way to get any of these suggestions into a conversation with the NRA. The only way that the grounds for debate will ever shift is if we hold these groups accountable for their current policy, which is encouraging unfettered access to weapons with minimal training or safety screenings. Even a mailer to their members with something like "If you have a mentally ill family member, please consider that gun ownership may pose risks to yourself and other people" would be a completely neutral statement, encourage people to contemplate the safety of having a gun for protection vs. the dangers of letting someone unstable have access to weapons easily, and would SAVE LIVES, but instead the NRA focuses on a "ALL OR NOTHING" approach that poisons debate. Until they are willing to have an actual discussion, I'm going to point out the hard numbers from countries that have successfully banned handguns and other weapons and let those facts speak.
sriracha

Atlanta, GA

#74 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call Wikipedia a valid source of information but since you started the trend let me ask you about this one:
In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_Uni...
If your premise is to be considered as valid how would you explain a nearly 10% decrease in violent crime in the US "without" gun control?
There's a rather well-known paper about this titled:
"THE IMPACT OF LEGALIZED ABORTION ON CRIME"
http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers...
sriracha

Atlanta, GA

#75 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
WTH he has already indicated that he favors government seizure of private property. In other words enter your home and take them.
Hey, guess what, if guns are made illegal through a Constitutional amendment, then that is illegal property. TTH, if America legally amended the Constitution to ban guns, you're saying you'd break the law?
TTH

Cookeville, TN

#76 Dec 16, 2012
That is what we call a diversionary tactic and it is not going to work. Stick to the subject at hand, your post makes it appear that you are trying to evade the subject at hand. If you want to discuss the liberals and their pro abortion stance and its roll in the degradation of our society we can but please start another thread.
TTH

Cookeville, TN

#77 Dec 16, 2012
Do you mean in the sense that all Americans have a responsibility to defend the Constitution of the United States if attacked from outside or within?
sriracha

Atlanta, GA

#78 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
That is what we call a diversionary tactic and it is not going to work. Stick to the subject at hand, your post makes it appear that you are trying to evade the subject at hand. If you want to discuss the liberals and their pro abortion stance and its roll in the degradation of our society we can but please start another thread.
The University of Chicago Econ department is of a libertarian stance.
sriracha

Atlanta, GA

#79 Dec 16, 2012
TTH wrote:
Do you mean in the sense that all Americans have a responsibility to defend the Constitution of the United States if attacked from outside or within?
I mean, if the Constitution is legally amended, and the 2nd Amendment is removed through that legal process. Would you comply with that change in laws?
TTH

Cookeville, TN

#80 Dec 16, 2012
I would never willingly abide by a "bastardized" version of the Constitution. You see you and I probably come from a different generation and background. I was taught to have honor and self discipline and self control. That document is the fundamental idea this nation was founded upon. You will never see such a fundamental change to the United States Constitution. To do so would mean nothing about the Constitution is held to the standard this country was founded upon and you will see a complete collapse of our country soon after. I think that is the fundamental wish of the liberals and their primary means of attack against this country. Trouble is most liberals do not understand that our freedoms will not exist without that document. You will note it is the liberal media trying to spread the idea of gun control.

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