The Gay Agenda

[not Sue]

these people do not have the right to use the word GAY. how can anyone be happy living the lifestyle that will take them to Hell if they don't change. This has been sin from the begining and will be a sin to the end. When they started changing laws to please non christain's look how our country has started to fall apart. PUT GOD BACK WHERE HE BELONGS,IN SCHOOLS,IN OUR HOMES,ON OUR JOBS.If we put him first and begin to praise and pray for him to change hearts to love him and not tell him how to tell someone how to live what do you think would happen. Everyone make their on choices right or wrong, that doesn't give them the right to make others accept what from the begining off time was a sin.I LOVE AMERICA,and do not want GOD to turn his back on us

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

Preach it! Amen! Word To The Lord!

[Escapee]

BubbaTheLoveSponge wrote:

<quoted text>
Way to completely gloss over my statement. Good job. Over the years we have changed as a society. Things that were immoral a few years ago, now aren't. In the 50's and 60's, it was immoral and illegal in many places to serve a black person from the same area as a white person. I'm sure 50 years ago, you would have been one of the ones saying that we shouldn't change laws. They can eat too, they just have to get out the back door. We shouldn't change laws just because these immoral people want to be treated equally. Next thing you know, they'll want to go to school with us and get paid the same wage. Lord have mercy on us all... we can't have all humans being equal... Lord no!

I never glossed over anything. I chose to ignore your comments because they aren't rational. But, since you brought it up again I will respond. I never said no law should be changed. I said this particular law should not be changed. You are arguing about black people and women. Two things that can't be altered. Homosexuality is a choice and it is an immoral choice.

Mistreating people is wrong and immoral regardless of the reasons why someone is mistreated including homosexuality. I am not saying to mistreat anyone.

Arguing about how our forefathers treated people is moot. I'm sure you will say that we should learn from our history, but no history dictates what is going on here.

Why should sex laws be created to promote sexual desires?

[Escapee]

wondering wrote:

<quoted text>
So a right is basic if we all have it. Thus opposite-sex marriages are a basic right, because we can all have one. However, same-sex marriage is not a basic right. This is because we cannot all have one.
So, if same-sex marriages are at some point given the same legal status as opposite-sex marriages, does it then become a basic right?
If an opposite-sex marriage is at some point denied--let's say, I don't know, that the government thinks someone is just trying to get a green card, or that one party lacks the mental capacity to understand "marriage"--does that mean that opposite-sex marriage is no longer a basic right, because we're not all free to get one?

I'll ask you the same, why should laws be created or changed to support sexual choices?

As far as getting a green card well I think you answered your own question. It isn't the basic human right of a someone who is not a citizen of the United States.

For the mentally challenged, of course there could be times when someone is not mentally capable of entering into marriage and their option could be denied depending upon the circumstance. Marriage is a contract. If I had a son or daughter that was being manipulated or taking advantage of because they were mentally impaired then I might possibly attempt to intervene and possibly have that basic right denied.

What is your question? Every thing that we are given as a society has boundaries and limitations. You are actually proving my point. Marriage doesn't become a basic human right for ALL if it can be denied to some even those chosing a hetrosexual lifestyle.

The question here was about homosexual marriages. You asked me how I tell my friends why they are denied the same basic human rights as others. I responded to you telling you they do have the basic human right to enter into a hetrosexual marriage if they choose.

What many are asking for is that the law be broadened to include sexual prefrences.

BTW ... I have the basic human right to buy a yacht, but I don't have the money to buy one. I don't ask the government to change the laws so that I too can buy a yacht.

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

Escapee wrote:

<quoted text>
I never glossed over anything. I chose to ignore your comments because they aren't rational. But, since you brought it up again I will respond. I never said no law should be changed. I said this particular law should not be changed. You are arguing about black people and women. Two things that can't be altered. Homosexuality is a choice and it is an immoral choice.
Mistreating people is wrong and immoral regardless of the reasons why someone is mistreated including homosexuality. I am not saying to mistreat anyone.
Arguing about how our forefathers treated people is moot. I'm sure you will say that we should learn from our history, but no history dictates what is going on here.
Why should sex laws be created to promote sexual desires?

And you lose me at it being a choice. There is no scientific evidence that says it's a choice and let's completely ignore that it happens in other species all the time. On top of all that, why in the world would anyone choice to be treated as badly as gays are? And even if it is a choice as you believe, then shouldn't the government also refuse marriage certificates to straight couples involved in S&M or that are swingers. Those are "immoral" acts.

[just a no body]

I can not say I am against or for any gay person or persons. But I can say I do not agree with some of the governments actions.
Example A.
Current a gay or lesbian couple that live together can obtain a "family" insurance plan. Whereas me and my fiance can NOT (because we must be married)...that one really burns me up be cause it is a double standard.

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

That would seem more like a insurance company policy, but I may be wrong... if gay and lesbians couples had the right to get married, then I'm sure they would have to wait till marriage just like you. They only get the special treatment because they aren't allowed to get married.

[not Sue]

Bubba, We were created above the animals. Every person makes their choice how to live their life. Sin is sin no matter who does it, but it is them making that choice Scince says people came from monkeys, if you choose to believe that it is your choice but I know God created me from the dust of the earth .you will be judged by every word that comes from your mouth not mine or anyone else. We don't have to accept someones lifestyle if it is wrong,You love and pray for God to change their hearts.

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

And there lies the problem. Science is fact, God is faith. When the two don't agree, no matter what, the person with the faith will say they are right no matter how insane it is to disagree with fact.

[wondering]

Escapee wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll ask you the same, why should laws be created or changed to support sexual choices?

If it's a choice, when did you choose heterosexuality? Could you start being attracted to men if you decided to? When you're walking down the street and see an attractive looking woman and man together, do you have to choose to check out the woman? Do you sometimes start to look at the man's ass before you remember to look at the woman's?

[wondering]

Escapee wrote:

<quoted text>
BTW ... I have the basic human right to buy a yacht, but I don't have the money to buy one. I don't ask the government to change the laws so that I too can buy a yacht.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

[Escapee]

BubbaTheLoveSponge wrote:

<quoted text>
And you lose me at it being a choice. There is no scientific evidence that says it's a choice and let's completely ignore that it happens in other species all the time. On top of all that, why in the world would anyone choice to be treated as badly as gays are? And even if it is a choice as you believe, then shouldn't the government also refuse marriage certificates to straight couples involved in S&M or that are swingers. Those are "immoral" acts.

Bubba, you are agnostic right? You believe there is no proof there is a God so therefore, your ideas are brought about because no one can prove to you that there is a God. Let's say then your complete belief system is built on that, on the fact that if no one can prove to you a particular claim is true then therefore it must not be so.

Now, let's put this same belief system to the homosexual topic. No one can prove scientifically, that people are either born gay or not gay. There are studies to support both sides, but nothing scientific. So how do you determine which way to believe? For you, it is a matter that you feel deep in your heart that people are born gay because homosexuality exists in animals?

My belief system is in God. I have faith there is a God and I have a belief system that is built on the word of God. God made animals different from humans. It is my belief that animals do not go to Heaven, they have no soul. They can not make the mental choice to choose between right and wrong. We are not animals. God did not create us in the likeness of an animal.

The thing is that scientifically we all may be predispositioned to any number of things. To be a murder? To be a child molestor? An alcoholic? To have an addictive personality? To have diabetes? The list could go on for miles. The arugment boils down to what you find as acceptable and what you don't find acceptable.

If anyone believes the things they are diong are immoral and a sin against God (Whatever that sin is) then they can overcome it. Anyone that accepts that their behavior or desires are okay will continue that behavior.

The truth is that we could argue this until the cows come home, but it isn't going to change a thing.

So, I have to continue to pray and hope that our leaders make the right choices.

[Escapee]

wondering wrote:

<quoted text>
If it's a choice, when did you choose heterosexuality? Could you start being attracted to men if you decided to? When you're walking down the street and see an attractive looking woman and man together, do you have to choose to check out the woman? Do you sometimes start to look at the man's ass before you remember to look at the woman's?

I've stated before that I, like every other person alive, have had struggles with making decisions in regards to sexual choices. My choices have been because of morality or because I didn't want to hurt others. I am not unrealistic. I know people have desires and I know that people have choices. I also know that I have made some bad choices in the past, I just have to pray that I won't make those same choices in the future.

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

Escapee wrote:

Bubba, you are agnostic right? You believe there is no proof there is a God so therefore, your ideas are brought about because no one can prove to you that there is a God. Let's say then your complete belief system is built on that, on the fact that if no one can prove to you a particular claim is true then therefore it must not be so.

There is more proof of Santa Claus, but what the heck, I'll go along with this.

Escapee wrote:

Now, let's put this same belief system to the homosexual topic. No one can prove scientifically, that people are either born gay or not gay. There are studies to support both sides, but nothing scientific. So how do you determine which way to believe? For you, it is a matter that you feel deep in your heart that people are born gay because homosexuality exists in animals?

No, because there are a great deal more studies that link biological and psychological evidence to homosexuality than there is to the contrary. Years and years of research all leading back to the scientific side.

Escapee wrote:

My belief system is in God. I have faith there is a God and I have a belief system that is built on the word of God. God made animals different from humans. It is my belief that animals do not go to Heaven, they have no soul. They can not make the mental choice to choose between right and wrong. We are not animals. God did not create us in the likeness of an animal.

First, my dog knows the difference in right and wrong. He knows when he's going something he's not supposed to and when he's caught, he puts his head and tail down and runs and hides. So apparently he has a soul. Second, science says we are animals. If God didn't create us in the likeness of an animal, it's kinda weird that he'd make us 98% genetically identical to the chimpanzee wouldn't you agree? The human genome has been sequenced, as well as the chimpanzee genome. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, while chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans have 24. Human chromosome 2 is a fusion between two chromosomes that remained separate in the other primates. Oh yeah, sorry, forgot you don't like science. Too much fact, not enough heart.

Escapee wrote:

The thing is that scientifically we all may be predispositioned to any number of things. To be a murder? To be a child molestor? An alcoholic? To have an addictive personality? To have diabetes? The list could go on for miles. The arugment boils down to what you find as acceptable and what you don't find acceptable.

Umm ok.

Escapee wrote:

If anyone believes the things they are diong are immoral and a sin against God (Whatever that sin is) then they can overcome it. Anyone that accepts that their behavior or desires are okay will continue that behavior.

Explain Catholic Priests.

Escapee wrote:

The truth is that we could argue this until the cows come home, but it isn't going to change a thing.

Nope.

Escapee wrote:

So, I have to continue to pray and hope that our leaders make the right choices.

The leaders you prayed wouldn't be elected.

[BubbaTheLoveSpon ge]

Escapee wrote:

<quoted text>
I've stated before that I, like every other person alive, have had struggles with making decisions in regards to sexual choices. My choices have been because of morality or because I didn't want to hurt others. I am not unrealistic. I know people have desires and I know that people have choices. I also know that I have made some bad choices in the past, I just have to pray that I won't make those same choices in the future.

So basically, you just said the only reason you are straight is because of fear. Wow... that's very revealing.

[Lucifer]

not Sue wrote:

Bubba, We were created above the animals. Every person makes their choice how to live their life. Sin is sin no matter who does it, but it is them making that choice Scince says people came from monkeys, if you choose to believe that it is your choice but I know God created me from the dust of the earth .you will be judged by every word that comes from your mouth not mine or anyone else. We don't have to accept someones lifestyle if it is wrong,You love and pray for God to change their hearts.

I think you were created by your mother and father. Just as most animals. So how were you created above them? You were just lucky that you were born with thumbs. If you want to change your heart you should go to a surgeon. god ain't gonna do it.

[Escapee]

BubbaTheLoveSponge wrote:

<quoted text>
There is more proof of Santa Claus, but what the heck, I'll go along with this.
<quoted text>No, because there are a great deal more studies that link biological and psychological evidence to homosexuality than there is to the contrary. Years and years of research all leading back to the scientific side.
<quoted text>
First, my dog knows the difference in right and wrong. He knows when he's going something he's not supposed to and when he's caught, he puts his head and tail down and runs and hides. So apparently he has a soul. Second, science says we are animals. If God didn't create us in the likeness of an animal, it's kinda weird that he'd make us 98% genetically identical to the chimpanzee wouldn't you agree? The human genome has been sequenced, as well as the chimpanzee genome. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, while chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans have 24. Human chromosome 2 is a fusion between two chromosomes that remained separate in the other primates. Oh yeah, sorry, forgot you don't like science. Too much fact, not enough heart.
<quoted text>
Umm ok.
<quoted text>
Explain Catholic Priests.
<quoted text>
Nope.
<quoted text>
The leaders you prayed wouldn't be elected.

Sometimes your train of thought really amazes me. First of all, if you read both sides, not just one side, of the sceintific studies you will find that there is NO scientific proof to support that people are born gay. One of the pioneers in this study Simon Lavay was often hearlded as the person who had found a genetic link. But, even he states he did not find any scientific evidence to support that belief. Studies have been done on twins and brothers, but all of them actually in the end support just the opposite. One of the most recent studies that was released in 1993 was questioned because there was no control group involved with the study. Another study was attempted in Ontario to PROVE the first study, and it was even duplicated and the researcher George Ebers actually concluded that there was no scientific proof based on that study to support that people are born gay. In his papers he even stated "there was no trend". Not just no evidence, not even a trend that he could follow through with.

One of the largest pro-gay orginizations PFLAG even states there is no proof that someone is born gay, alternatively they would prefer that people quit asking why and just accept that it is so.

[Escapee]

BubbaTheLoveSponge wrote:

<quoted text>
There is more proof of Santa Claus, but what the heck, I'll go along with this.
<quoted text>No, because there are a great deal more studies that link biological and psychological evidence to homosexuality than there is to the contrary. Years and years of research all leading back to the scientific side.
<quoted text>
First, my dog knows the difference in right and wrong. He knows when he's going something he's not supposed to and when he's caught, he puts his head and tail down and runs and hides. So apparently he has a soul. Second, science says we are animals. If God didn't create us in the likeness of an animal, it's kinda weird that he'd make us 98% genetically identical to the chimpanzee wouldn't you agree? The human genome has been sequenced, as well as the chimpanzee genome. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, while chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans have 24. Human chromosome 2 is a fusion between two chromosomes that remained separate in the other primates. Oh yeah, sorry, forgot you don't like science. Too much fact, not enough heart.
<quoted text>
Umm ok.
<quoted text>
Explain Catholic Priests.
<quoted text>
Nope.
<quoted text>
The leaders you prayed wouldn't be elected.

Do you think you dog makes a concious choice between right and wrong?

Ahhhh now for evolution. This is where you amaze me in your thought process. Evolution is a theory. Plain and simple, but apparently it is a theory you believe in. How do you pick and choose your theories to support?

If we are all products of evolution then why don't horses produce bobcats? Why doesn't an elephant produce a giraffe? Each species, each animal produces like species. If this is the case why should anyone believe that man comes from a monkey?

I am not saying that some evolution has not taken place of the millions of years, but the point is that some birds can evolve to another bird. But a bird doesn't evolve to a goat.

I am no scientist and clearly, neither are you. But, I tell you what, here is your opprotunity to earn $250,000. I will provide you with a website to a man in Florida that has a standing offer for anyone who can present empirical evidence that man evolved first from a single cell then to a monkey and then to what we are today. No sense in you having all this proof and not capitalizing on it!

http://www.drdino.com/

[Escapee]

You asked me to explain Catholic Priest. Why would you set them aside from any other person? They are human like anyone else. But, to answer your question, any person who wants to set aside their sins have that option. It is up to that person. It isn't for you or me to do. My personal opinion is that anyone who succumbs to temptaions whether it be homosexuality or any sexual sin has not made a true committment to God. Surely you don't expect me or anyone else to answer for another person's sins.

Lastly, how do you know what I pray for? I know you haven't noticed because you've been busy pretending life on earth has no consequences, but we live in a fallen society. There will be so-called proof dicounting all things in the Bible until the end of time. People will try harder as the world draws closer to its final days. That I am sure of.

What I am not sure of is what is EXACTLY right for our country in terms of leadership. I can only pray that they make the right choices. Now, I am not a fan of Obama that is clear, but that doesn't keep me from praying that he along with the rest of the administration, leads our country in the right direction.

[Escapee]

BubbaTheLoveSponge wrote:

<quoted text>
So basically, you just said the only reason you are straight is because of fear. Wow... that's very revealing.

Where did I say that? I said I made sexual choices based on morality and fear of hurting other people. I never said I had to fight off homosexuality for fear. There are all kinds of sexual choices, what keeps you from having sex with the 15 year old neighbor girl? What keeps you from having sex with your best friend's wife? What keeps any of us from acting upon every sexual urge that we get?