Couple to hunter: 'Leave without your...

Couple to hunter: 'Leave without your dead deer'

There are 477 comments on the www.connpost.com story from Oct 16, 2009, titled Couple to hunter: 'Leave without your dead deer'. In it, www.connpost.com reports that:

There is a dead deer lying about 40 yards beyond Lynn Gorfinkle's back deck. It has been there, with a fatal arrow wound in its side, since Oct.....

... projects that the DEP largely credits for the recoveries of many animal species. Nearly five years ago, Greenwich hired sharpshooters to cull its deer herds, and last month, Stamford's Bartlett Arboretum & Gardens announced that it would hold a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.connpost.com.

sheesh ersatz vet

Appomattox, VA

#377 Dec 10, 2009
Mark M wrote:
in addition to info in the second video, elimination of the black-legged tick would eliminate ALL Lyme disease. Without the vector (the tick), several dozen of the small mammals, including the white-footed mouse, carriers of the spirochete bacterium, would be rendered completely harmless. How hard could it possibly be to get rid of black-legged ticks in an age in which we can space travel…..gimme a break! Where there’s a will, there’s a way!
You really think it would be easy to do? You are talking about a rather small creature that exists all over the place. Attempts have been made but total elimination is going to be rather difficult and expensive. At least two approaches have been attempted and failed. Insecticide impregnated cotton for the mice to collect and use as nest material was tried years ago.

Currently there are deer feeding stations available that have insecticide impregnated rollers on them. The deer has to put its head between a pair of the rollers to feed on corn inside a barrel.
Most of the ticks attach to the head and neck of the deer. This method has been fairly successful in areas it has been used in.

The problem probably comes down to funding. The same issue happens with rabies control in wild life. An oral bait has been developed yet no county wants to spend the money to drop it in areas it is needed.

Space exploration is much more attractive than bug spray and vaccines.
Greer

Hicksville, NY

#378 Dec 10, 2009
Sheesh - what is wrong with you?
What are you talking about?
Mark M. posted two URLs; the second one explains the 4-poster (which you describe as a feeding station)- YES, it is very successful, among others described on the video. If you bothered to see it, you wouldn't be spouting off about it as if no one heard of it yet. You just might get it right and learn about other things as well!

It's NOT funding that is the problem; it is the DEP's resistance to it, by placing all kinfs of restrictions to potential users. Heck, if we got rid of ticks, would there be such a push to save mankind from Lyme disease - DUH! The tubes you mention were already inuse in the 90s and are still available, but not much advertised. Too bad!

Yes,ticks are small, and we have been able to rid our environment of other even smaller dangerous pests before - it's not rocket science - failure in doing so is not an option.
sheesh ersatz vet

Appomattox, VA

#379 Dec 10, 2009
Greer wrote:
Sheesh - what is wrong with you?
What are you talking about?
Mark M. posted two URLs; the second one explains the 4-poster (which you describe as a feeding station)- YES, it is very successful, among others described on the video. If you bothered to see it, you wouldn't be spouting off about it as if no one heard of it yet. You just might get it right and learn about other things as well!
It's NOT funding that is the problem; it is the DEP's resistance to it, by placing all kinfs of restrictions to potential users. Heck, if we got rid of ticks, would there be such a push to save mankind from Lyme disease - DUH! The tubes you mention were already inuse in the 90s and are still available, but not much advertised. Too bad!
Yes,ticks are small, and we have been able to rid our environment of other even smaller dangerous pests before - it's not rocket science - failure in doing so is not an option.
What is wrong with you? You open your yap yet don't know what you're talking about. The link was a page or two back and little discussion was given on the matter. Is it really necessary for anyone to beg for your permission to post a comment?

In case you didn't notice I only responded to the portion of the post that was not a rant. I was attempting, for a change, to engage in somewhat peaceful conversation. Thank you for reminding me that it just isn't possible with people like you. I'll not be making that mistake again anytime soon.

I'm not in CT and I'm talking about failure in general. If there's been such a raging success why are there still ticks floating about?

I'll tell you why.

First of all they aren't 100% effective. They were 77% effective on Gibson Island, MD. Yes this is good and would help reduce disease.

Second, you can't just plunk one down and forget about it. They have to be maintained.

Third, one station doesn't cover a great deal of area. One station is claimed to be good for 40 or so acres IIRC (I left the flyer in my office). They ain't cheap. Do you have any idea what the price is for one feeding station or how much it costs for materials to maintain one each year?

70% effective doesn't equate to complete elimination. It's a nice start, but it ain't full on success. Then there is the little matter of ridding the entire region of the pests. It ain't gonna happen. All your kicking and stamping about this being the failure of DEP is BS.

My point, about failure, in the post above is a valid one considering lyme disease seems to be distributed quite widely.

Now, instead of ranting about something which you obviously don't know all the details about why don't you try learning something before flying off the handle?

mmmmkay?
sheesh ersatz vet

Appomattox, VA

#380 Dec 10, 2009
"70% effective doesn't equate to complete elimination" should be 77%
Greer

Hicksville, NY

#381 Dec 11, 2009
And hunting doesn't require "maintaining"? You guys don't just do it once, you want to continue killing deer ad infinitum. But, oops, what am I thinking.....I forgot - it's more fun to kill deer than eliminating ticks!

All the maintenance the 4-poster requires is replenishment of tickicide and bait - DUH!

It IS a "raging" success WHEN it is used - if it's not used, how can it be successful - DUH!

The remaining 27% of the ticks could be eliminated by other available and effective means.

It's amazing how emotional you're getting over a little suggestion, sheesh, not good for your blood pressure!

Don't fret too much, sheesh, I'm going back to Mexico soon!
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#382 Dec 11, 2009
Hunting helps 2 problems at once: too many deer (car accidents, eating gardens, plants etc) AND too many ticks (lyme).

This tick device only cuts down on ticks. Still way too many deer. More deer = more deer-car collisions. Injuries to humans, deaths, and property damage.

Plus hunting provides recreation to the hunters and food. Humans are hunter-gatherers by nature.

I'm assuming Greer is a vegan.
sheesh ersatz vet

Oakvale, WV

#383 Dec 11, 2009
Greer wrote:
And hunting doesn't require "maintaining"? You guys don't just do it once, you want to continue killing deer ad infinitum. But, oops, what am I thinking.....I forgot - it's more fun to kill deer than eliminating ticks!
Personally, I've never heard of the notion of using deer hunting to control tick population. Not until I heard it suggested here.
Deer hunting is a long standing tradition in some families. Don't think your banging on about it will have much impact.
You may also wish to oppose other things that have adversely affected the deer. Like habitat fragmentation due to development.
Greer wrote:
All the maintenance the 4-poster requires is replenishment of tickicide and bait - DUH!
You quite conveniently neglected the salient point about expense. Seems to be a trend on your side, ignore reality.
Greer wrote:
It IS a "raging" success WHEN it is used - if it's not used, how can it be successful - DUH!
The anti-hunting brigade claims it would be a simple measure to completely eliminate the tick population. Therefore 77% is not a raging success. But like I said, it is helpful in the control of deer tick population.
Greer wrote:
The remaining 27% of the ticks could be eliminated by other available and effective means.
Like what? Napalm?
Greer wrote:
It's amazing how emotional you're getting over a little suggestion, sheesh, not good for your blood pressure!
Nope, the BP is fine. I was just of the mind, temporarily of course, that this could become civil.
Greer wrote:
Don't fret too much, sheesh, I'm going back to Mexico soon!
What, pray tell, does this have to do with your limited intelligence?
Foxy Lady

Hawthorne, NJ

#384 Dec 11, 2009
Just because Mark Harrison has never personally seen vegetarians and animal rights activists protest grocery stores does not mean they don't. They do.
And, FYI, a vegetarian diet is better for people.
If hunters choose to consume game meat that they have killed, they do so at their own risk.
Just because a butcher is an approved USDA butcher has nothing to do with his ability to test the meat for parasites, bacteria, past unsanitary handling, and pesticides or herbicides or lead or Chronic Wasting Disease, or epizootic hemorrhagic disease, etc. It only means that his facility is clean enough.
It is important to understand that venison can have high levels of lead.Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck physician and avid hunter, alerted health officials after he conducted his own tests on venison using a CT scanner and found lead in the meat. He said that consuming lead is a problem because it is a severe neurotoxin and "What's very scary about this is you can't feel them -- they're like lead dust. Many of the fragments are microscopic, but can still cause harm to humans if ingested. When [a bullet] hits the deer, it sends little bits of schrapnel-type lead that are almost liquid at that point because of the speed the bullet is going, and the impact is enough to scatter the deadly toxin throughout the entire animal.”
And don't tell me that bow hunting is fine. It is the most cruel of all with a 55% wounding rate. Deer go off into the woods to die a painful death.
Greer

Hicksville, NY

#385 Dec 11, 2009
Sheesh, all I can say sheesh.....
I think you're becoming way over-emotional on this issue, I am truly concerned about your well-being.

Being as knowledgeable on tick control as you imply, it seems that you haven't watched that second video posted by Mark M, have you? Otherwise you would not have responded in this way:

Greer wrote:
"The remaining 27% of the ticks could be eliminated by other available and effective means."
You wrote: "Like what? Napalm?"

I must say, not only are you a charming fellow, you're also very amusing - have you considered stand-up comedy?

There are bait boxes (seen in video) into which the little critters like white-footed mice go in and come out, presto, no ticks! Ticks are harvested from those boxes regularly, served up with fried onions and garlic sauce over basmati rice or rice noodles in your favorite restaurant or diner as a local delicacy! It's a win-win situation: It boosts the economy, satsfies the palates of discering gourmands and gets rid of ticks and Lyme disease.

You ask about Mexico (I was aksed to stay there!)- I go there to recharge my batteries so I can feel qualified to take on someone as eloquent as you!

To former res: Lighten up, what's with all the gloom and doom - you're such a fatalist!
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#386 Dec 11, 2009
Greer wrote:
To former res: Lighten up, what's with all the gloom and doom - you're such a fatalist!
I'm not the one complaing about someone else's sport. What's next, the war on fishing?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#387 Dec 11, 2009
In considering solutions to the problem of the high incidence of tick borne disease on Shelter Island, several methods and approaches to deer control and tick control were examined:

Increasing the length of the deer-hunting season and or adding special hunting seasons to further reduce the deer herd.

Immuno-contraception where the female deer (does) are rendered reproductively sterile by the use of a one-dose vaccine that prevents conception for 3 years.

Controlled bums to bum back vegetation that provides tick habitat.

Use of Insecticidal (tick) sprays in area throughout the island.

Devices to kill larval ticks on the white-footed mouse, from which the spirochete of Lyme disease enters the tick life cycle.

Deer collaring device which is similar to the "4-Poster" but instead of rubbing the permethrin on their necks with a roller, the feeding station is computerized and slips a Tick collar on the deer's neck as it feeds.

The "4 Poster" system which relies on a unique method of applying the insecticide, permethrin, to the neck and head of deer which are lured to a feeding site by a special com feeding device. This system has proven to be very effective in several trials in various geographic areas. It has reduced tick numbers by up to 99% over a 3-year period.

http://www.shelter-island.org/deerandtick/rep...
mark harrison

Glen Head, NY

#388 Dec 11, 2009
And don't tell me that bow hunting is fine. It is the most cruel of all with a 55% wounding rate. Deer go off into the woods to die a painful death.

where did you get this crap from. i shot over 75 deer and i have only lost one so where does 55 percent come from? your animal rights buddies. yes the research you showed about lead is true i had just read the same article but 55 percent wounding rate is the dumbest thing ive heard in a while. when i shoot a deer there is no flip of the coin wether i kill the deer or not if it was even remotely true bow hunting would be illegal
Lynn Gorfinkle

United States

#389 Dec 11, 2009
sheesh ersatz vet wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the response is due to the number of people that have insisted on calling him a murderer.
I get the feeling you're a lot like some of what are referred to as "come heres" in my area. Granted, I'm one too as I came from far away. What separates me from the "come heres" is that I have accepted THEIR way of life and moved into the area without making waves.
Just so those on this forum will know where I "come from"--I was born in Fairfield County CT and lived for the first 20 years of my life right next to property that was used for pasturing cows. A couple of my immediate relatives were farmers. My father worked for 40 years for Remington Arms in Nridgeport and he was the patent holder for the original machine that manufactured the plastic shot shell. He was not a hunter, but I grew up knowing numerous hunters and trap/skeet sport shooters. After I was married I lived in New York state and Virginia (Petersburg area) where I worked for a local humane society. Some on this forum have implied that I am a rich slob or some other such trash. I am now and always have been a middle class person.
Lynn Gorfinkle

United States

#390 Dec 11, 2009
mark harrison wrote:
And don't tell me that bow hunting is fine. It is the most cruel of all with a 55% wounding rate. Deer go off into the woods to die a painful death.
where did you get this crap from. i shot over 75 deer and i have only lost one so where does 55 percent come from? your animal rights buddies. yes the research you showed about lead is true i had just read the same article but 55 percent wounding rate is the dumbest thing ive heard in a while. when i shoot a deer there is no flip of the coin wether i kill the deer or not if it was even remotely true bow hunting would be illegal
Now there is a sterling idea! Bow hunting should be made illegal, because it clearly violates standards of humane kill. Now Mark, before you begin foaming at the mouth about this one, understand that I am not singling out you or hunting in general for any special bashing. I have been a strong advocate against factory farming and animal slaughter all my life. But obviously firing an arrow through an animal's lung or worse, liver, paunch, or even skull, is no improvement over standard slaughterhouse methods. Maybe you have confidence in your ability to make a 15-second kill, but that is by no means the commonest scenario in bowhunting. A lot of these deer die after weeks or months of blood loss or septicemia, and that is completely unacceptable. BTW, hunting was referred to as a "sport" somewhere in a previous post. It is not a sport, but rather a state-promoted animal abuse activity designed around the profit motive.
Foxy Lady

Hawthorne, NJ

#391 Dec 11, 2009
Keep right on ranting, Marc, and read what the moron that you think I am is sending now:

"For humane advocates [and many hunters], bowhunting is set apart from other forms of sport hunting chiefly by its appalling high wounding rate - greater than 50%. In other words, it has been conclusively documented that for every animal hit by a broadhead arrow and retrieved by a hunter, at least one is hit and not retrieved, usually to die after prolonged agony from septic infection, peritonitis, blood loss, or other complications. The broadhead arrow is intended to kill primarily by circulatory hemorrhage. It is extremely difficult to shoot an arrow into a vital organ in a large ungulate such as a deer, and thus, a 'clean kill' is nearly impossible in bowhunting." Houston Post

Hunters like to sling mud at non-hunters for bringing forth information pertaining to their sport. They belittle the provider of information, thus hoping to diminish the impact of facts.

Twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent. More than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved. Many of these studies were conducted by state wildlife agencies.

For example, "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks reports 51% wounding; "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51% wounded); "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates" Michigan Pittman-Robertson Report, Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources (58% wounded); "Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa" Wildlife Society Bulletin (49% wounded); "Bow hunting for Deer in Vermont: Some Characteristics of the Hunters, the Hunt, and the Harvest" Vermont Fish and Game Department (63% wounded). The average wounding rate from all 22 reports is 55%.
Hunters might not like the results, but the fact is that they subject countless animals to great misery before death in the name of their so called "sport". As people become aware of the enormous pain and suffering of animals for recreational purposes, they are willing to speak up for those who can't do it for themselves.
Greer

Hicksville, NY

#392 Dec 11, 2009
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not the one complaing about someone else's sport. What's next, the war on fishing?
What sport are you talking about?

What's the definition of "sport"?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#393 Dec 11, 2009
Foxy Lady wrote:
Keep right on ranting, Marc, and read what the moron that you think I am is sending now:
You need to provide links for your sources. Your Houston Post source could be a letter to the editor. Not too convincing.

Mark has already stated, his experience is other than what you posted, in any case.
mark harrison

Glen Head, NY

#394 Dec 11, 2009
wow foxy lady once again a load of crap from your mouth with statistics that mean nothing. i had a harsd time believing you stats so i looked up them my self. every stat you put was was from around 30 years ago wich i believe are worthless due to regulations and requerements for hunter safety courses. here is the stats you posted and they are a waste of time to even spit out of your mouth again. this is like saying a plane is dangerous because of all the crashes in the 40'S
1. Aho, R.W. 1984 "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates." Michigan Pittman-Robertson Report. Michigan Department of Natural Resources. Lansing, Michigan. 11pp.
58% wounded

2. Anonymous. 1970 "Chincoteague Narrative Report, 1965-1970" Refuge Manager"s United States Government Memorandum to Regional Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Atlanta, Georgia. 3pp.
52% wounded, 15 shots per kill

3. Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G. 1987 "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas." Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Austin, Texas. 16pp.
50% wounded, 21 shots per kill

4. Cada, J.D., 1988 "Preliminary Archery Survey Report." Montana Department of Fish and Wildlife and Parks. Helena, Montana. 7pp.
51% wounded.

5 & 6. Causey, M.K., Dennamer, J.E., Logan, J. and Chapman Jr., J.I., 1978
"Bowhunting White-tailed Deer with Succinylcholine Chloride Treated Arrows." Wildlife Society Bulletin 6(3): 142-145
50% wounded in Alabama (without succinylcholine chloride).
50% wounded in South Carolina (without succinylcholine chloride).

7. Croft, R.L. 1963. "A Survey for Georgia Bowhunters." Proceedings of the Southeastern Association of Game and Fish commissioners. 17:155-163
44% wounded.
mark harrison

Glen Head, NY

#395 Dec 11, 2009
out dated garbage. it doesnt even say the number of deer for these survey. if they only had 2 deer for the survey and one got away the duh the percentage would be high
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#396 Dec 11, 2009
Greer wrote:
<quoted text>
What sport are you talking about?
What's the definition of "sport"?
You like definitions?

Main Entry: 1hunt
Pronunciation:\&#712;h &#601;nt\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English huntian; akin to Old English hentan to seize
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 a : to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo> b : to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hun...

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