In tolerant San Francisco, Propositio...

In tolerant San Francisco, Proposition 8 backer to head Catholic Church

There are 160 comments on the Bellingham Herald story from Sep 23, 2012, titled In tolerant San Francisco, Proposition 8 backer to head Catholic Church. In it, Bellingham Herald reports that:

Next week, a key player in the passage of Proposition 8 - a man who has decried the "contraceptive mentality" of modern life - will become the leader of the Catholic Church here in the city that thrust same-sex marriage onto the national stage, the birthplace of the Summer of Love.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Bellingham Herald.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#51 Sep 29, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't; it simply states a succinct gaming theory that the player has nothing to lose if He doesn't exist.
<quoted text>
My name isn't Pascal.
<quoted text>
It proves that only a fool would pass on a bet he can't lose.
If his choice to believe a certain way is actually false, then he loses. Pascal's wager is a falacy.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#55 Sep 29, 2012
TomInElPaso wrote:
Your God didn't want you to have the ability to think for yourself evidently. What a waste of a human skull.
<quoted text>
What a troll he is always cutting and pasting that crap as though anyone cares to read it.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#56 Sep 29, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Pascal is describing the gaming theory of eternal salvation, not who "defriends" you on Facebook.
Pascal's wager assumes God is pleased with belief in eternal salvation. Suppose God is displreased with such belif. What then?

Since: Aug 11

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#57 Sep 29, 2012
belief

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#58 Sep 29, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
It is foolish when Pascal's wager proves that an infinite prize warrants a finite wager for gamers with nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Except that in Yeshua's cosmology, to give in order to get is to invalidate the effort.

“NOW will ya give me”

Since: Sep 12

some fightin' room ? !

#59 Sep 29, 2012
We are saved by Grace alone thru Faith. In order to be saved, it IS NECESSERY to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior. Salvation is possible NO OTHER WAY.
Qwerty26

Lewes, DE

#60 Sep 29, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Pascal is describing the gaming theory of eternal salvation, not who "defriends" you on Facebook.
That may be true. But one's activities on Facebook will have a much more real impact than any "theory of eternal salvation."

Your use of the word "theory" in this instance is a good one, assuming you are using this in its popular - not scientific - sense. In its popular definition, a theory is an unproven hypothesis, and you can't get more unproven than "eternal salvation" now, can you?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#63 Sep 30, 2012
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
If his choice to believe a certain way is actually false, then he loses ...
It's obvious you still don't understand the wager: it's gaming theory, not philosphy.

Pascal's wager states that to wager on God existence is a bet you can't lose: if God doesn't exist, we have nothing to lose, but if He does exist, then we have everything to gain.
Qwerty26 wrote:
<quoted text>
That may be true. But one's activities on Facebook will have a much more real impact than any "theory of eternal salvation"
...
If you think that much of Facebook, then you've been on-line for far too long.

Back away from the mouse and take a break.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#64 Sep 30, 2012
Qwerty26 wrote:
<quoted text>
That may be true. But one's activities on Facebook will have a much more real impact than any "theory of eternal salvation" ...
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Pascal is describing the gaming theory of eternal salvation ...
For the record, I posted "the GAMING theory of eternal salvation ..."

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#65 Sep 30, 2012
TucksunJack wrote:
We are saved by Grace alone thru Faith. In order to be saved, it IS NECESSERY to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Savior. Salvation is possible NO OTHER WAY.
What makes you think belief and salvation have anything to do with Jesus?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66 Sep 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
It's obvious you still don't understand the wager: it's gaming theory, not philosphy.
Pascal's wager states that to wager on God existence is a bet you can't lose: if God doesn't exist, we have nothing to lose, but if He does exist, then we have everything to gain.
<quoted text>
If you think that much of Facebook, then you've been on-line for far too long.
Back away from the mouse and take a break.
The wager is based upon a belief. If that belief is false, then the wager is null and void.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#67 Sep 30, 2012
Qwerty26 wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy howdy, you've managed to cram every reason for despising religion in general, and christianity in particular, into one post (which I've shortened to give me room to reply). And it starts with your very first point - proclaiming that your deity has essentially written off his entire creation because we are evil and sinful. The message of original sin is the most damnable and most evil lie that has ever been foisted on humankind, followed closely by its corollary, the message of eternal damnation and suffering. These are evil, and stupid, messages and humankind would be well to be rid of them.
If you feel the need to worship a deity, why not select one of the thousands of others who don't proclaim that you are evil and sinful and that the only way to be "saved" (whatever that means) is to believe that your deity actually required a blood sacrifice - a human sacrifice - to allow you to overcome your evil and sinful nature? I see very little difference between the Aztec priests cutting the hearts out of their living victims and a deity who commands a blood sacrifice so that you can be floating around on a cloud strumming a harp for eternity. Both christianity and the aztec religions are consumed with blood sacrifice.
Time to grow up and face the music. The deity that you are describing, and to whom you are dedicating your short life in this world, is hokum, and is certainly not worthy of any kind of respect or praise.
He describes all the things Jesus preached against. Go figure!

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#68 Sep 30, 2012
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
The wager is based upon a belief ...
The wager is based upon a choice where the better can't lose.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#69 Sep 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The wager is based upon a choice where the better can't lose.
If I take the wager, which god are we betting on?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#70 Sep 30, 2012
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
If I take the wager, which god are we betting on?
The one that begins with a capital "G".

17th-century French philosopher Blaise Pascal held that belief in God is a better wager than nonbelief because there are infinite rewards to gain and little to lose by believing versus infinite rewards to lose and little to gain by not believing.

Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#71 Sep 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The one that begins with a capital "G".
17th-century French philosopher Blaise Pascal held that belief in God is a better wager than nonbelief because there are infinite rewards to gain and little to lose by believing versus infinite rewards to lose and little to gain by not believing.
Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
You make it seem like believing is just a simple choice.

If you are "believing" simply because you are afraid not to believe, how is that in any way virtuous?

And how is it really "believing" at all?
Dogma Doctor

Alpharetta, GA

#73 Sep 30, 2012
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
If I take the wager, which god are we betting on?
GOD put Obama in charge
.
The extreme right hasn't figured it out yet

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#74 Sep 30, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The one that begins with a capital "G".
17th-century French philosopher Blaise Pascal held that belief in God is a better wager than nonbelief because there are infinite rewards to gain and little to lose by believing versus infinite rewards to lose and little to gain by not believing.
Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
I see. This wager only applies to a belief in your conception of "God" with a capital g.

Why wouldn't this same wager logically apply to each or any of the thousands of other god claims? Why would it only apply to a christian god of Pascal's (or your) conception?

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#75 Sep 30, 2012
Which is basically faith-as-insurance, which is incredibly cowardly. Better to be a resolute catholic, wiccan, atheist, etc, than a mousy moron with no convictions.
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The one that begins with a capital "G".
17th-century French philosopher Blaise Pascal held that belief in God is a better wager than nonbelief because there are infinite rewards to gain and little to lose by believing versus infinite rewards to lose and little to gain by not believing.
Microsoft Encarta 2006. 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#76 Oct 1, 2012
cpeter1313 wrote:
Which is basically faith-as-insurance, which is incredibly cowardly. Better to be a resolute catholic ...
Pascal was a Catholic, as were most French of his time.
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
You make it seem like believing is just a simple choice ...
The wager is simple enough.
Jerald wrote:
... Why wouldn't this same wager logically apply to each or any of the thousands of other god claims? Why would it only apply to a christian god of Pascal's (or your) conception?
Neither I or Pascal "conceived" God, and where is the logic in inserting Dagon or any other god into Pascal's wager?

Context is everything.

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