Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Read more: CNN 32,003

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20813 Feb 27, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Noble in the pre-existence? I don't think it is our place to cast judgement. I feel that anyone who declares otherwise is speak out of turn. I don't think God dwells on our past, he looks more to our potential. Whether we were noble and great in the pre-existence should have little bearing on how we view ourselves now, so I don't think God would reveal if some one was less valiant. It wouldn't serve any Godly purpose to reveal that.
Yet that is just what Mormonism was saying when it taught that black skin is a curse from God.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20814 Feb 27, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
Pre-Existence
These Intelligences were then born as spirit children to God the Father and one of his goddess wives. The popular Mormon book, Gospel Principles, tells us:
"All men and women are...literally the sons and daughters of Deity...Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Origin of Man, Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, pp. 78, 80)".(Gospel Principles, p. 11).
Mormon writer Milton R, Hunter wrote:
"The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology. A complete realization that we are the offspring of Heavenly Parents - that we were begotten and born into the spirit world and grew to maturity in that realm - became an integral part of Mormon philosophy. Those verities are basic in the Gospel plan of eternal progression." (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the ages, p. 98).
If yes how when the Bible teaches the opposite.
But the Bible says nothing about us pre-existing as children born from a sexual act between a heavenly father and a heavenly mother. We are not the literal offspring of God, but are rather 'adopted' as sons through faith in Jesus Christ:
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name." (John 1:12)
Galatians 3:26, 5-7 says:
"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus...in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying "Abba! Father!" Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God."
A popular verse which Mormons often use in an attempt to justify the doctrine of pre-existence from the Bible is Jeremiah 1:5 which has God saying to Jeremiah:
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:5 KJV+)
But what we must remember about this verse is the simple fact that it is God who is saying these things to Jeremiah. If Jeremiah said that he knew God before he was created in the womb then this verse may be used to support such a doctrine of pre-existence. God is all knowing (omniscient) and being as such, knows in advance the calling which each of us will have in life.
I believe in what was said in the Gospel Principles Book. I don't know about God having multiple wives. I believe that we existed before this life. I believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that we wanted to progress and become more like our Heavenly Father, so God created a plan to gain a body, learn, and receive some godly powers and allow us to prove our selves. This time is a type of mortal probation, allowing us to experience, learn, grow, and return better individuals.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20815 Feb 27, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
To Progress, the Spirits Needed to be Clothed with Physical Bodies
Do you as a Mormon member of the LDS believe the following. Yes or No.
"Our heavenly parents...knew we could not progress beyond a certain point unless we left them for a time. They wanted us to develop the godlike qualities that they have. To do this, we needed to leave our celestial home to be tested and to gain experience. We needed to choose good over evil. Our spirits needed to be clothed with physical bodies. We would need to leave our physical bodies at death and reunite with them in the resurrection. Then we would receive immortal bodies like those of our heavenly parents....we would have all power in heaven and on earth; we would become heavenly parents and have spirit children just as he does (see D&C 132:19-20)" (Gospel Principles, p. 13-14).
Yes or NO
Yes

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20816 Feb 27, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
War in Heaven
Do you as a Mormon member of the LDS believe the following. Yes or No
Two of God's son's Jesus and Lucifer, put fourth their own suggestions of how humanity should be tested on earth. Jesus suggests that humanity have their free will in choosing good or evil, but Lucifer suggests taking their free will away and to force them to give him honour:
"We needed a Saviour to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?(Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27). Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself pour sins. He, like our heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. he knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2)".(Gospel Principles, p. 17).
After hearing both Jesus and Lucifer speak, God said:
"I will choose the first [Jesus](Abraham 3:27)"
Lucifer is filled with rage, rebels against God, and incites a 3rd of the heavenly hosts to join him in his rebellion. God casts them down to earth, and they are denied the right to receive bodies of flesh and bone.
"Because our Heavenly Father chose Jesus Christ to be our Saviour, Satan became angry and rebelled. There was war in heaven. Satan and his followers fought against Jesus and his followers. In this great rebellion, Satan and all the spirits who followed him were sent away from the presence of God and cast down from heaven. One-third of the spirits in heaven were punished for following Satan: they were denied the right to receive mortal bodies." (Gospel Principles, p. 19).
Yes or No
Yes, thanks for providing the appropriate citation and context.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20817 Feb 27, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
Some of the Spirit Children are 'Cursed' with Black Skin
Do you as a Mormon member of the LDS believe the following. Yes or No
"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less...There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits." (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954; 1:61, 65-66)
"...negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of Spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate." *(Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition, pp. 527-528).
"We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or displeasure of God upon a people, starting with the belief that a black skin is a mark of the curse of Heaven placed upon some portions of mankind. Some, however, will argue that a black skin is not a curse, nor a white skin a blessing. In fact, some have been so foolish as to believe and say that a black skin is a blessing, and that the negro is the finest type of a perfect man that exists on the earth; but to us such teachings are foolishness. We understand that when God made man in his own image and pronounced him very good, that he made him white. We have no record of any of God's favored servants being of a black race...every angel who ever brought a message of God's mercy to man was beautiful to look upon, clad in the purest white and with a countenance bright as the noonday sun." (Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157, October 15, 1868)
I've already addressed this issue. Bruce R McConkie said it doesn't matter what was said prior to the revelation that blacks could receive the priesthood. Those things that were said were said with limited light, knowledge and understanding of God's plan.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20818 Feb 27, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet that is just what Mormonism was saying when it taught that black skin is a curse from God.
See the above comment.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20819 Feb 27, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
The basis for the above questions comes from
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/ep.htm
www.spotlightministries.org.uk
Check out SPOTLIGHT MINISTRIES at the above links.
I checked out the link. I think it is sad that this website tells people not to pray and ask God for guidance.

http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/praying...

Why NOT pray about it? I believe in a God who cares about us enough to answer prayers and tell us where we can find truth. Telling people NOT to pray about something negates the individual relationship each of us is entitled to have with God if we nourish it. God is concerned about our welfare, he loves us, and he wants to us receive his blessings. However, sometimes all we need to do is ask, and he will give us what we need. He just wants us to ask.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20820 Feb 27, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
View of the Hebrews, which also answers your first question. There is nothing original about the BoM. But there were many books written before Smith speculating about the Indians being Jews.
I'm not speaking or addressing originality of the BOM. If that were the case, we could pretend the BOM began from the old world to the new world and than was about Mars and Jupiter and Smith claiming men went their by worm holes and preached Jesus to little green people. But as long as Smith made a correct statement in his BOM of what was taking place on the Americas 2000+ years ago, he got it correct. And no one else did. Not even View of the Hebrews got it correct. That book gave no specific time period as Smith made claim to. And like that writer of that book, Smith grew up hearing the stories that American natives were a lost tribe of Israel. But hearing that information says nothing of when Jews may have came or how and what they may have accomplished while being here.
Smith got it correct about things that men of science wouldn't validate as having been true till decades to a century later after Smith was dead.
Can the BOM names, events, geography be proved true? Certainly not, not yet.
Were Smiths descriptions of ancient American societies 2000 years ago correct? In many instances yes. Down to elephants being here as testified by elephant head relief's carved into stone monuments.
Tough factual information to swallow for a guy that hates Smith I understand :)

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20821 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Let us know when you actually have something new to say. You're like a bad rerun of the Love Boat, which was horrible to watch even the first time.
Dana,

You TRY to TWIST EVERYTHING possible.

You LIE constantly.

//

AND, you constantly fetish on everyone's genitals and underwear.

YOU MOCK GOD the FATHER.

NOTHING YOU SAY CHANGES THE FACT THAT GOD WILL WIN IN THE END!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20822 Feb 28, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I've already addressed this issue. Bruce R McConkie said it doesn't matter what was said prior to the revelation that blacks could receive the priesthood. Those things that were said were said with limited light, knowledge and understanding of God's plan.
Yet they were discriminated against for 150 yrs. How could this have happened with prophets and apostles who were suppose to be receiving direct revelation from God? That is a whole lot of "limited light". It's downright blindness for a church claiming to be the "restoration" of the early church. It also means the church was not the "only true church" during that time period to have gotten something this major so wrong.
Also, the LDS church is still teaching that dark skin is a curse through the BoM and the Book of Abraham. When are those mistakes going to be removed from "the most correct book on the earth"?
And if you can't trust that, why trust anything that came out of the mouths of your leaders? What to say that everything that is taught in Mormonism isn't "limited light"? That's a screw up of major proportions.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20823 Feb 28, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Dana,
You TRY to TWIST EVERYTHING possible.
You LIE constantly.
//
AND, you constantly fetish on everyone's genitals and underwear.
YOU MOCK GOD the FATHER.
NOTHING YOU SAY CHANGES THE FACT THAT GOD WILL WIN IN THE END!
Still waiting for something original from you Carol... and waiting... and waiting... and waiting...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20824 Feb 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lolol....absolutely not. I couldn't care if you said Smith was *ucki*g his *hor* wives up the *ss.
See, all you prove to one and all who read your posts is that you have an issue with using real civil type language. What you have proven is you would rather use a gutter slurring language than a polite, civil language. So it's not hard to imagine that how you speak in here, that's the type of language you have preferred to use to raise your children with. Thus your children language wise are your split image because you made them that way.
Now if you wish to claim that isn't true, that you use polite and civil English with your kids as they grew, than that would leave us to really wonder why a guy that speaks so polite and civil off the web would feel the need to speak foul gutter language when on the web.
See, if you use gutter language off the web, it would stand to reason you would use gutter language on the web. If you speak politely and civilly off the web, reason would say you would speak that way on the web.
But to speak politely and civilly off the web and to be totally opposite on the web, that would denote internal mental problems and or stress causing a person like that to show such a hyde/jeckel verbal personality.
So you don't use foul gutter language to jerk my chains dude...lol...you use gutter language because that's how you like to speak. At least fricking be honest about it lol.
No, you don't care, you just cry like a little girl all the time about it. LOL!!!

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20825 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Still waiting for something original from you Carol... and waiting... and waiting... and waiting...
nope, you still haven't changed your ways and

NOTHING YOU SAY CHANGES THE FACT THAT GOD WILL WIN IN THE END!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20827 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet they were discriminated against for 150 yrs. How could this have happened with prophets and apostles who were suppose to be receiving direct revelation from God? That is a whole lot of "limited light". It's downright blindness for a church claiming to be the "restoration" of the early church. It also means the church was not the "only true church" during that time period to have gotten something this major so wrong.
Also, the LDS church is still teaching that dark skin is a curse through the BoM and the Book of Abraham. When are those mistakes going to be removed from "the most correct book on the earth"?
And if you can't trust that, why trust anything that came out of the mouths of your leaders? What to say that everything that is taught in Mormonism isn't "limited light"? That's a screw up of major proportions.
Different people receive the fullness of the gospel at different times. Everyone will have an opportunity to accept all of it. There are several examples in the scriptures of God giving his gospel to different people at different times. Why should our time be any different?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20828 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet they were discriminated against for 150 yrs. How could this have happened with prophets and apostles who were suppose to be receiving direct revelation from God? That is a whole lot of "limited light". It's downright blindness for a church claiming to be the "restoration" of the early church. It also means the church was not the "only true church" during that time period to have gotten something this major so wrong.
Also, the LDS church is still teaching that dark skin is a curse through the BoM and the Book of Abraham. When are those mistakes going to be removed from "the most correct book on the earth"?
And if you can't trust that, why trust anything that came out of the mouths of your leaders? What to say that everything that is taught in Mormonism isn't "limited light"? That's a screw up of major proportions.
Dark skin isn't necessarily a curse.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20829 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet they were discriminated against for 150 yrs. How could this have happened with prophets and apostles who were suppose to be receiving direct revelation from God? That is a whole lot of "limited light".
Well let's expand on this accurate 'limited light' saying by the other poster that you find rejection with.

6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
7:7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
9 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
So we have a man of the Lord Noah. Good, blessed, righteous in his ways of living. And than limited light takes place one can say of this man of God.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
What does Noah do? Not a word of wrong to Ham. Not a word of discipline or forgiveness to Ham. Instead we have Noah cursing Ham's descendants to a life of servitude for Ham's transgression. Generations of living with discrimination for Ham's trespass. And you have a problem with people actually following the discriminatory behavior that men of God practised themselves and through cursing? Noah cursed the generations of Ham to slavery to their cousins and there was no stopping point given for this curse of slavery.
And who are we most familiar with as having been cursed as slaves that have dark skin that Christians for centuries related to Noah's curse? Africans. Christians for centuries even did lineage traces in the Bible to show the descendants of Ham were of dark to black skin covering the middle east to Africa areas. This is a Christian thing. This is a Christian belief. This has always been a Christian belief. You can believe anything different you want. You can believe Cain was albino. It doesn't matter. Many Christians still believe the old Christian teaching but will never say anything, just like blacks believe God is black like them, but they will usually never say anything. Many blacks have been taught by old black Christianity that Adam and Eve were black like God and Cain was cursed with a white skin! How about those cookies!
You can be as indifferent as you wish to be about this curse and what it was. But you'll never change the fact that Christianity birthed this curse and still nourish it.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20830 Feb 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you don't care, you just cry like a little girl all the time about it. LOL!!!
You have proved you prefer gutter language over polite civil language. You have proved what you prefer concerning how you speak because you consistently use that language.
I do find offense with people that claim to be 'good, honest, truthful' Christians who constantly prove their anything but those things. Yes, I do find offense with hypocrites as you. You shame the definition of Christian by calling yourself one. And you don't care. Just like you don't care how you speak.
I'm here to remind you of what you don't do that you should be doing if indeed you wish to call yourself a Christian without embarrassment to it's definition.
So call that crying or whining or what ever. You're your own loss. It doesn't have to be that way :)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20832 Feb 28, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Dark skin isn't necessarily a curse.
That is what your church taught.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20833 Feb 28, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Different people receive the fullness of the gospel at different times. Everyone will have an opportunity to accept all of it. There are several examples in the scriptures of God giving his gospel to different people at different times. Why should our time be any different?
Because the LDS church was suppose to be the "restored" church. The early church did not discriminate against races.

Acts 10:28
And he said to them,“You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call ANY man unholy or unclean.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20834 Feb 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You have proved you prefer gutter language over polite civil language. You have proved what you prefer concerning how you speak because you consistently use that language.
I do find offense with people that claim to be 'good, honest, truthful' Christians who constantly prove their anything but those things. Yes, I do find offense with hypocrites as you. You shame the definition of Christian by calling yourself one. And you don't care. Just like you don't care how you speak.
I'm here to remind you of what you don't do that you should be doing if indeed you wish to call yourself a Christian without embarrassment to it's definition.
So call that crying or whining or what ever. You're your own loss. It doesn't have to be that way :)
You're offended, you're not offended, you're in, you're out, you do, you don't.
You twist whichever the way the wind blows. LOL!!!

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