Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 31997 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19284 Dec 8, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
James B. Allen, who now serves as assistant church historian, frankly admitted that the story of the first vision "was not given general circulation in the 1830's." (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1966, p. 33). Dr. Allen makes some startling concessions in this article. He admits, for instance, that "none of the available contemporary writings about Joseph Smith in the 1830's, none of the publications of the Church in that decade, and no contemporary journal or correspondence yet discovered mentions the story of the first vision...." Dr. Allen goes on to state that in the 1830's "the general membership of the Church knew little, if anything, about it."
My reference reads more like this:
"The fact that none of the available contemporary writings about Joseph Smith in the 1830s, none of the publications of the Church in that decade, and no contemporary journal or correspondence yet discovered mentions the story of the first vision is convincing evidence that at best it received only limited circulation in those early days."

Eye witnesses to LDS missionaries in a 14 Feb 1831 newspaper would tell you that the missionaries made no secret that Joseph Smith shared the first vision.

See:“Book of Mormon,” The Reflector (Palmyra, New York) 2, no. 13 (14 February 1831): 102

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19285 Dec 8, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
What does the Bible say? The required baptism for salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is never said to be required for your salvation. And we have proof of someone who was saved without water baptism in the Bible. It was the thief on the cross. Because he believed in Jesus Christ, Christ told him that he would be with him in Paradise that day. No stipulations were put on it. He didn't tell him that if he could get off the cross and go get baptist, he would be with him in Paradise that day. And he didn't tell him that after someone did his work for the dead, he would be in Paradise with him. He said he was going to be with him THAT day. Paradise is the place where the righteous dead wait for the resurrection. They are the saved.
<quoted text>
According to the Bible, yes. Paul taught:“ The laborer is worthy of his wages.” Jesus got paid for delivering his messages. Where do you think he got the money to survive and eat? Donations from the people he was preaching too. And if getting money is a sin for teaching God's word, why are the Apostles and Prophet of the LDS church receiving money for being such?
<quoted text>
Every church that teaches salvation through the grace of Jesus Christ is 100% correct. They differ on matters that have nothing to do with salvation. Your putting your eyes on man made organizations, not Jesus Christ. Churches don't save, only Christ does.
What about churches that say certain sacraments or rights are required for salvation as well? What about other churches that give a list of requirements to be saved or specify a specific process required for salvation? Are they correct?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19286 Dec 8, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
There are 3 personages, one being. Stephen saw Jesus standing to the right of the Father's glory. He doesn't say that glory was man shaped.
If God made man in His image, then I think we can assume that God is man shaped. Jesus had to be standing to the right of something. That God was seen as standing separate from Jesus in the vision should be convincing enough, no matter what shape he took.

If Stephen saw them distinctly, then I think its safe to assume that they are distinct or separate beings.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19287 Dec 8, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't believe in temple work for the dead? Because that is what you are doing when you do that. You are trying to do something to earn another persons salvation. You are denying the grace of Jesus Christ.
God is gracious. He has provided a way for ALL to be saved. I didn't provide that way, neither did any of us. It is by God's grace that he created a perfect plan that encompasses all of us.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19289 Dec 9, 2012
Their 'god' also changed his mind about polygamy when threatened by the government too.
Their 'god' seems to be a coward, subservient to our government.
Mormons are morons, without a bit of common sense.
It couldn't be more obvious that their 'god' is a MAN-MADE GOD, one that CHANGES HIS MIND, that CONTRADICTS HIMSELF, that has to have THINGS HIDDEN because evidence proves he DOESN'T EXIST.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19290 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Much of what I have learned...
What you posted is a STORY for the simple-minded.
It's a satanic religion, the work of fiction, written by people.
WHAT YOU WANT REALITY TO BE DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S EITHER GOD'S PLAN OR IT'S SATAN'S. That's it.

For those who CARE ABOUT THEIR ETERNAL LIFE, and know better than to take the word of one liar, take a good look at the reality of Mormonism, the fraud, the cover-ups, the deceit, etc. and listen to those who fought to escape it's grip.
See post 19169.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19291 Dec 9, 2012
lakerbuff wrote:
in the end we all pray or worship or believe in the same supreme creator we just call him/her/it different names
Do you have a brain anywhere in your head?
How stupid are you, to make up ANYTHING about someone as powerful as God?
If you ever bothered to THINK about this at all, you'd eventually figure out that, if you're wrong, you're probably in deep shite, and will have to answer for this stupidity some day.

People: NEVER believe lies. THINK.
There is only one God. He is NOT GOING TO TOLERATE PEOPLE WORSHIPPING GODS THEY CREATE.
He says in HIS WORD, the Bible, that He doesn't hear the prayers of unbelievers.

That statement is popular today. Is that what you want to gamble your eternal life on -- popular ideas?
Just like Mormonism, those ideas are the creation of people.
If you want to throw your eternal life away, at least know what you're doing and never think you can blame those writers. YOU are responsible for believing the truth.
the rest of us

Saint Paul, MN

#19292 Dec 9, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
What you posted is a STORY for the simple-minded.
It's a satanic religion, the work of fiction, written by people.
WHAT YOU WANT REALITY TO BE DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S EITHER GOD'S PLAN OR IT'S SATAN'S.......BLAH,BLAH,FART,B LAH,FART.........
See post 19169.
No numbnuts, nobody cares to read your fart in a windstorm comments on here. Just like in your real life, nobody listens to you on topix either. Go get some help with your hate and anger before you physically harm someone.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19293 Dec 9, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's some info on the real history of the Church, which you know good and well:
http
Are you trying to appeal to total idiots?
You NEVER get the truth about ANYTHING by going to the organization that profits by lying and covering up the past.

You go to the CRITICS, those who have been victimized by the reality of what really happens, and those who have LEFT THE CHURCH because they FOUND TRUTH.

What you're doing is pure evil, and you'll have to answer for all those who are deceived, just as Mormons will, as well as for the innocent children they're lying to.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19294 Dec 9, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
It is more than apparent that you do not. Your fictitious description of LDS history is not at all rooted in fact.
You've spent so much time with your fellow anti-Mormons that you've come up with quite a story to tell!
Bottom line, we'll never know how much you're paid to lead people away from Christianity, or what benefit you get from it, but you'll have an eternity to regret it. Shame on you.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19295 Dec 9, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
What you posted is a STORY for the simple-minded.
It's a satanic religion, the work of fiction, written by people.
WHAT YOU WANT REALITY TO BE DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S EITHER GOD'S PLAN OR IT'S SATAN'S. That's it.
For those who CARE ABOUT THEIR ETERNAL LIFE, and know better than to take the word of one liar, take a good look at the reality of Mormonism, the fraud, the cover-ups, the deceit, etc. and listen to those who fought to escape it's grip.
See post 19169.
We believe that the Bible contains the word of God and Jesus Christ is our Savior. How is that Satanic?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19296 Dec 9, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Liar...lol. You better go back and read what you say to people claiming to be Mormons in this thread. You fight with them and against them concerning their beliefs. You still use vile and derogatory remarks as part of your "missionary" language to prove you're fighting against them, not explaining anything ton them. There is a difference you know :)
What was derogatory in my statement? You are so sensitive.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19297 Dec 9, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that post only made sense to you correct? And apparently you have forgotten the malevolent remarks you made of Smith and other Mormons in dozens of pages past? The remarks of how much you hated and detested him, that he should have been strung up etc? And you don't advocate violence?
Yes, that was against Joseph Smith. He was a foul perverted pig. But he is also a foul perverted dead pig now. He has nothing to worry about from me.
Let's go over this simple fact for you. Hate speech is a form of violence, mental violence in this case. And all the hate speech you typed out for Smith and other leaders for pages past advocated violence from yourself for them of who you spoke of.
By your definition of violence, than the LDS church is a violent church, because it certainly has advocate violence against blacks and gays in times past.
And if a law were being put to the public vote to outlaw Mormonism, you'd be the first in line to make a vote liar, so don't say you wouldn't want laws to be passed to outlaw Mormonism.
You don't know me, that's for certain. I hate Islam more then I do even Mormonism, because they are more dangerous, yet I would not vote against people practicing peaceful Islamic teachings. I would fight against any laws that would force me to practice their beliefs, but I don't care what they do to themselves. Same with Mormonism, they can be as wrong as they want to be, I only reserve the right to change their hearts and to move them back to true Christianity.
You have a malevolent hated that runs deep and black in your soul for all things Mormon. At least be truthful as you have wrote it.
I hate Mormonism, I've never said otherwise. I also hate the KKK, the Nazi's, and Communists. I hate evil. Mormonism is a religious fascism, a hate group.
What didn't you understand of what I said? Your a mirror image of the Jews that wanted Jesus imprisoned and or dead.
Now you start to lose your mind. I don't want Mormons imprisoned, unless they break the law. I don't want them dead. I can't change their minds if they are dead. If I hated the members so much, I won't have voted for one for president in the last election.
If you had been one of the adult males alive in June of 1844 with your present mental violent hatred for Smith, crazy with mob mentality on June 27th, you would have been at the front of that pack in that jail with a pistol to kill Smith. And you would have felt justified to have shot anyone in that jail cell because of the hate and rage you carry for Smith.
That's true, I would have loved to have put a bullet in his brain. That would be true of Adolph Hitler and Muhammad also. That doesn't translate to all the people he has fooled. They all deserved death. The sooner the better.
You have not a clue of the filthy disgusting vile violence you have spewed for a guy you never knew and have judged as if you knew him intimately from personal experiences.
I don't know Ted Bundy either, but he got what he deserve also. I don't have to know them personally to know they deserved death.
Justify your hate and rage for all things Mormon as you do but one day you'll have to justify those thoughts and feelings to your maker.
Jesus hates those who misuse and abuse his good name also. While he never once said anything about homosexuals, which you loath and hate, he said plenty about false Christ and false prophets that were to come. I have nothing to answer for.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19298 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
You are misinterpreting the verse. The word "this" in verse 22 refers to "the power of godliness", not the Melchizedek Priesthood. The Lord explains in Doctrine and Covenants 67:11 that "no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God." Spirit of God being the power of godliness manifest.
The power of God was manifest when Joseph Smith was transfigured during the First Vision. Orson Pratt's 1840 account states that the pillar of fire or light "continued descending slowly, until it rested upon the earth, and [Joseph Smith]was enveloped in the midst of it."
You and FAIR both need to learn how to read. You want to claim that "this" is referring to "the power of godliness"? Fine, but you are not seeing what the verse is saying required to get it.
D&C 84:
[19] "And this greater [i.e., Melchizedek] priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.[20] Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.[21] And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; [22] For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live."

Do you see it? "And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;"

Words mean something. It is clearly stating that the "power of godliness" which is required by your definition to see God is only available to those with the Melchizedek priesthood. Clearly Smith did not have such priesthood at this time.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19299 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
My reference reads more like this:
"The fact that none of the available contemporary writings about Joseph Smith in the 1830s, none of the publications of the Church in that decade, and no contemporary journal or correspondence yet discovered mentions the story of the first vision is convincing evidence that at best it received only limited circulation in those early days."
Eye witnesses to LDS missionaries in a 14 Feb 1831 newspaper would tell you that the missionaries made no secret that Joseph Smith shared the first vision.
See:“Book of Mormon,” The Reflector (Palmyra, New York) 2, no. 13 (14 February 1831): 102
Give me a link if you want me to see it. Don't have that one on my self.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19300 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.(John 3:3-5)
Note: WATER and of the Spirit
We follow what the ancient Christians taught and believed. Justin Martyr (100-165 A.D) said:
For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
( Irenaeus, Ante-Nicene Fathers, edited by Philip Schaff (Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1886)1:574
Irenaeus wrote:
‘And dipped himself,’ says [the Scripture], "seven times in Jordan." It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared:‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
(Clementine Homilies, 11:25–26. In Ante-Nicean Fathers 8:223–347)
The Apostolic Constitutions says
Nay, he that, out of contempt, will not be baptized, shall be condemned as an unbeliever, and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says: "Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven." And again: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
(Apostolic Constitutions, 6:15 Ante-Nicene Fathers, edited by Philip Schaff (Christian Literature Publishing Co., 1886)7:456–457)
Any clear reading of the verse you quotes show that when Nicodemus was talking about being "born of water" he was talking about his first birth, the one from his mother. He asks "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?" That would be the water birth. Many Jews taught that being born a child of Abraham was salvation. Jesus was teaching it was not, that a person had to be born of the spirit to be saved, not water baptism.

Again, the thief on the cross shows us that a man can be saved without water baptism.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19301 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
What about churches that say certain sacraments or rights are required for salvation as well? What about other churches that give a list of requirements to be saved or specify a specific process required for salvation? Are they correct?
Depends on what they are teaching. Give examples, I'll address them.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19302 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
If God made man in His image, then I think we can assume that God is man shaped. Jesus had to be standing to the right of something. That God was seen as standing separate from Jesus in the vision should be convincing enough, no matter what shape he took.
If Stephen saw them distinctly, then I think its safe to assume that they are distinct or separate beings.
They are 3 personages, one being. As for God being man shaped:
Numbers 23:19
“ God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19303 Dec 9, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
God is gracious. He has provided a way for ALL to be saved. I didn't provide that way, neither did any of us. It is by God's grace that he created a perfect plan that encompasses all of us.
But that plan was not the "Plan of Salvation" as taught by the LDS church. You can not find it in the Bible. In fact you can find many thing things that teach against it.
Father Overtime

Salt Lake City, UT

#19304 Dec 9, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
But that plan was not the "Plan of Salvation" as taught by the LDS church. You can not find it in the Bible. In fact you can find many thing things that teach against it.
Scripture references please

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

South Salt Lake Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
I'm getting over you! 6 hr Noah 2
Review: Haaga Mattress (Nov '15) Wed cool dealzz 3
voting for trump 2016 thread Wed anonymous 1
Trump Wed Paris 20
ancestry findagrave MICHELLE 46983123 Aug 19 KATRINA SMITH 3
Review: Pinky's (Apr '13) Aug 18 Greg 7
Are Aliens Real, if so are they nice or mean? (Oct '12) Aug 16 chance lo co 18

South Salt Lake Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

South Salt Lake Mortgages