Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CNN

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#33627
Jun 2, 2014
 
Don Joe wrote:
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To say that Mormons believe that others outside their religion can go to heaven is a bit disingenuous, since they changed the definition of heaven. Mormons believe there are three levels of heaven, and even the worse offenders will go to a heaven that if they knew how wonderful it is, people would kill themselves to get there. The second level is for generally good people, much better than the lower heaven. The third level is for Mormons who have accepted their faith and acted according to the tenants. They do baptize all, even those already dead, so they can chose to move up, if they meet the criteria. As I recall it is possible for those who denied the Mormon religion on Earth, to accept it in their level of heaven and eventually move up. So while technically possible, Mormons can talk about many going to heaven, while referring to the lowest level of heaven.
The Mormons I am familiar with do give a lot to the church, but not so much outside of church, since 10% of their gain each year is to be given to the church, to obtain a temple pass. Otherwise you can't really go to the temple to receive your endowments. If that money were used to help people, instead of just going to the church, much good could be done. The prophet (profit) doesn't really need that large of a salary.There are billions in the church coffers, just like the rich, not being put to use.
1) The Bible talks about the 3 Kingdoms of God.
2) Jacob from the Bible is the one that started tithing ... he said I will give you 10% of everything I have for the blessings you have give me to the Lord.

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#33628
Jun 2, 2014
 
John Appleseed wrote:
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Couldn't agree more... God doesn't rule a solar system, God rules existence. Whenever Jesus decides to come back they will all be denied entrance to the Lord's new city. Ironic the jezabel in this post excludes two tribes since Jesus came from one of them...
The guy in that post was being facetious... he was trying to be funny... that is not what Mormons believe. We know God rules over us... we know there are 2 tribes.. The bible says so...

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/29.11-1...

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ezek/37.15-...

I urge you to read that. They are scriptures from the King James Bible that we believe in also.

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#33629
Jun 2, 2014
 
piratefighting wrote:
<quoted text>
1) The Bible talks about the 3 Kingdoms of God.
2) Jacob from the Bible is the one that started tithing ... he said I will give you 10% of everything I have for the blessings you have give me to the Lord.
Bible References to The Three Degrees of Glory

In 1832, it was revealed to Joseph Smith, his counselor Sydney Rigdon, and other subsequent prophets that after we die, go to the spirit world, and are judged, we will be received into one of three Kingdoms. These are collectively referred to as the Three Degrees of Glory. The lowest kingdom is called the Telestial Kingdom. This will be the world all those who rejected Christ and never repented of their sins will go. The next highest is the Terrestrial Kingdom. This will be where those who accepted Christ, but didn't endure to the end and never fulfilled all the saving ordinances will go. The highest kingdom, where God the Father lives, is called the Celestial Kingdom. This will be the world where all those who accepted Christ, endured to the end and received all the saving ordinances will go.
The concept of three kingdoms makes the judgments of God more fair and just. This way, people who lived good lives but never fully accepted the gospel of Christ will still receive a fitting reward, and those who long suffered, sacrificed and endured to the end will receive the highest possible reward, Eternal Life with God.
Here are the verses in the bible that make reference to these different Kingdoms.

Matthew 13:43

"Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

I included this reference because it's almost an esoteric reference to the Celestial Kingdom. The Kingdom of God is the Celestial Kingdom. The Celestial Kingdom is referred to symbolically in the scriptures as the Glory of the Sun. Jesus, teaching in parables, says in this verse that the righteous in the Kingdom of God the Father will shine like they were the sun, or part of the Glory of the Sun. What makes me think this is an esoteric reference is that He ends it by saying "who hath ears to hear, let him hear,"like the believers should understand his subtle Celestial reference.

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

Notice Jesus isn't just saying "My Father's only Kingdom is a big place". He is alluding, if not outright saying, that there are many mansion, ergo, different kingdoms in store for us. Like He said, if this were not so He would have told us.

2 Corinthians 12:2

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,(whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

In this verse Paul is teaching of a third heaven, implying that there is more than one eternal destination, and hierarchical glories.

1 Corinthians 15:40-41

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."

Paul is teaching about the resurrection. In verse 40 he teaches that people will be resurrected into one of three bodies: a Celestial body, a Terrestrial body, and assumable a Telestial Body. These body we're resurrected into will correspond with the glory and kingdom we receive. Notice the next verse blatantly teaches that there is one glory of the sun (The Celestial Kingdom), another glory of the moon (The Terrestrial Kingdom), and a glory of the stars (The Telestial Kingdom). The sun, moon, stars is obviously symbolic of the hierarchy in glory of the kingdoms.

“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#33630
Jun 2, 2014
 
Bible References About Tithing

For some reason, the principle of tithing tends to be a controversial issue with people who are not members of the church. This is ironic because they aren't the ones paying it so why should they care at all? They probably just have misconceptions about how tithing works in The Church. Maybe to them it just seems like people are throwing 10% of their income away to some church for no good reason. However, to members who pay tithing, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Tithing is a commandment that goes back to Old Testament times, and was never rescinded. By definition "tithe" means a tenth or 10%. Therefore, members are only required to pay 10% of their income to The Church. Remember, the Church is not the IRS. Members are not audited, bishops don't ask for financial information, and no one has ever been shaken down for tithing money. If a member for whatever reason quits paying tithing, there won't be any leaders hounding them like a collections agency.

Members discreetly place their offerings in an envelope and hand it to the bishop or one of his two counselors. Collection plates are not passed around in meetings. At the end of the year, the bishop asks each member if he or she is a full tithe payer, and people simply say yes or no. It's all based on people's honesty, not a financial review.

To members who obey and keep the law of tithing, the blessings are easily counted, and not just in monetary units. I definitely speak from personal experience on this one. Plus I think it helps that members know that no one is getting wealthy from their donations. Since the church has a volunteer clergy, and tithing funds are kept locally to benefit the members, no one is getting rich off tithing donations - no, not even the Apostles and leaders of the Church. Apostles and full time general authorities are paid stipends, and are employed by church-owned businesses. Tithing money goes to build churches, temples, and to the renowned welfare and humanitarian programs of the church, just to name a few.

Here are the bible citations that support the principle of tithing.

Genesis 28: 20-22

"And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

Jacob is acknowledging and giving thanks for all the Lord has given him, and ends off by basically saying, the Lord has given him so much the least he can do is give Him a tenth, or tithe. As the Lord blessed Jacob for his offering, so too will He bless us for ours. Whether we notice or not, or whether we want to admit it or not.

Leviticus 3:30-34

"And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord.
And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord.
He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.
These are the commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai."

The Lord is explaining that a tenth of everything is His, and tithing is holy to Him. During this time the people didn't have money so they were commanded to offer up 10% of their seeds, their crops and their herds. In the last verse the Lord confirms that tithing is indeed a commandment, not a suggestion.

“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#33631
Jun 2, 2014
 
Deuteronomy 12:6

"And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:"

Jesus is once again reaffirming the obligation to pay tithes and give offerings.

2 Chronicles 31:5-6

"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the first fruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the Lord their God, and laid them by heaps."

The background of these verses was King Hezekiah overthrowing idol worship in his kingdom and reinstating the worship of the God of Israel. As part of this reinstatement of the faith, he commands people to start paying tithes and making offerings again. Notice is says that the tithes and offering were brought in heaps. Through the ages, whenever the people of God have been on the earth and are being faithful, tithing has always existed among them. When the people become wicked, tithing is one of the first thing to go.

Malachi 3: 7-10

"Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

This passage has a very strong message from Jesus concerning tithes, and is the most definitive on the subject. First, it affirms my point in the previous paragraph about when the covenant people become wicked they quit paying tithing or make offerings. More importantly, Jesus blatantly says when we don't pay tithing we are robbing Him. I don't think I would want to be counted as a thief against God at the judgment bar.

Furthermore, it is a good example of the principle that for every obligation there is a blessing attached when we are faithful. Jesus is assuring, almost challenging, us that if we are faithful in our tithes He will bless us more than we can imagine. This is just as true in our day was it was back then. I have a first hand testimony of this. I'm not rich by any means, but I have definitely been blessed.

Mark 12:42-44

"And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."

Jesus uses the occasion of the widow donating all she had to teach that it is better to give generously in faith, then it is to just give what your comfortable with. I am certain the this widow did indeed receive the blessings promised her in Malachi.

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#33632
Jun 2, 2014
 
As a Side Note:
"It should be recognized," said President Gordon B. Hinckley in 1985, "that all of these [churches, temples, 3rd world schools, seminaries, printing scriptures, etc] are money-consuming assets and not money-producing assets. They do not produce financial wealth, but they do help to produce and strengthen Latter-day Saints. When all is said and done, the only real wealth of the Church is the faith of its people."

And for all of you tithing critics out there, here are other things tithing goes to for you to keep in mind:

LDS Employment Services: In 2003, Church employment centers placed 87,092 people in jobs in the United States and Canada and 88,306 internationally.
Volunteers operate 113 Food Storehouses for the Poor, 105 canneries and 18 food processing and distribution plants for the food The Church produces on 63 welfare farms.
LDS Family Services, an independently operated nonprofit corporation, receives a grant annually from the Church to provide adoption, foster care and counseling services in 65 offices across the United States.
As of 2005, the Perpetual Education Fund, created in 2001, has assisted 18,000 students in 27 countries receive college educations and job training.
Since 1986, The Church has responded to 155 major natural disasters across the globe, supplying food, shelter, clothing, and medical equipment to people of all nationalities and faiths.
Since 1985, supplies that have been distributed include 45,247 tons of food, 5,943 tons of medical equipment, 57,227 tons of surplus clothing and 5,011 tons of educational supplies.

“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#33633
Jun 2, 2014
 

“Protest / support the marchers”

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#33634
Jun 6, 2014
 

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Mormons worship The Almighty Dollar.
They ignore crimes and immorality committed by their members because of the money those people donate.

Mormon attorneys committed hundreds of felonies to defend child abusers in a Baptist school.

It’s been going on for a long time.
They went after Howard Hughes’s money by moving in and taking over, not allowing him to know another day of freedom, and using sleazy parasites to violate his will.

None of this matters at all to pathetic sheeple who need mommy-daddy to tell them what to think their whole lives because they’re scared to death to become grownups.
They’ll devote themselves to this satanic religion their whole lives.

“Protest / support the marchers”

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#33635
Jun 6, 2014
 

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(next post)

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#33636
Jun 6, 2014
 

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www.protestantprotest.net
Note: GoDaddy has illegally this paid-in-full website, to cover up the corruption of organized religion.
Sign this petition to get them prosecuted for fraud.
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/web-sites-ar...

“Duty is a Privilege! ”

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#33637
Jun 15, 2014
 
No Surprise wrote:
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lol.....you just don't have a fricking clue. You say I'm psych and you're the one buddying up to a guy that out right dissed you by stating you're of a lower intelligence level?

*** You're buddying up to a guy that made a story of having a girl that likes looking at other girls boobs insinuating she's bi and he possibly benefits from said sexual orientation meaning he's pro-polygamy if anything? yeah, psycho is, psycho does and that's the psych you're budding up to...lol.
.
this was the best post ever! No Surprise talking to Nomo regarding NON-wanderer

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#33638
Jun 15, 2014
 

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piratefighting wrote:
<quoted text>this was the best post ever! No Surprise talking to Nomo regarding NON-wanderer
Scammers must adore you.

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#33639
Jun 18, 2014
 

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I know of many Mormons who have committed serious felonies and got away with them. The Church knows about them, and helps hide it all from the public.
Amazingly, they're all good old white boys!
Attorney Steven Bangerter was even promoted in the Church instead of disciplined, or turned in to the authorities for prosecution.

I'll do a little research to prove the corruption.

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#33640
Jun 18, 2014
 

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Protester wrote:
I know of many Mormons who have committed serious felonies and got away with them. The Church knows about them, and helps hide it all from the public.
Amazingly, they're all good old white boys!
Attorney Steven Bangerter was even promoted in the Church instead of disciplined, or turned in to the authorities for prosecution.

I'll do a little research to prove the corruption.
What did Steven Bangerter do?
sunshine

Canyon Country, CA

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#33641
Jun 18, 2014
 

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fedupwiththemess wrote:
I do. They do not go by the bible nor does the bible mention mormonism it it. They have created a so called "extension" or another book of the bible calling it the book of mormon. Mormonism was created by a horny man wanting to screw more than one woman so he made it up saying GOD told him to do so. Women fell for it.
Mormons are not christian as they are a cult. If they want to become christiane, convert to catholicism.
Learning Compassion

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#33642
Jun 21, 2014
 

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sunshine wrote:
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Mormons are not christian as they are a cult. If they want to become christiane, convert to catholicism.
Actually, every religion falls short of its goal. Was raised Protestant and have not found the kind of compassionate enlightenment that is representative of Jesus.

Have found that all religious organizations lose their way and try to influence politics instead of being of service to human kind.

Still looking for the church that can deliver this without an agenda of conversion or coercion.
wormwood

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#33643
Jun 22, 2014
 

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Protester wrote:
They ignore crimes and immorality committed by their members because of the money those people donate.
I have been a member of the LDS Church for over 18 years, was branch president for 6 of those years and branch mission leader for most of the rest. I have a very, very strong testimony of the gold plates which I was given 32 years before I ever heard of the Book of Mormon or even held one in my hand.

Sadly I must agree with your one comment, I have seen it first hand. I was told on more than one occasion while I was branch president to not offend one particularly obnoxious member because as the stake president said, "he pays a lot of tithing".

Since: Jun 14

Salt Lake City, UT

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#33644
Jun 23, 2014
 
The only thing I see is everyone pointing fingers. If you go back through history to any religion you'll find that most religions are just splinters of other religions. Take Buddhism for example, a monk left his monastery, found his own personal enlightenment and people liked what he found so they began following what he taught and then Buddhism was born over time. I'm not saying it's wrong to follow it, but that's not what I believe, and whoever wants to believe it is going to. If you ask me what I believe in, I'm LDS by the way, I will tell you. However, if you look in the LDS bible it's history goes back to before many religions. If I remember correctly, I believe it was king Henry the fourth, maybe the fifth, that created a new Christian based religion in order to divorce his wife, all the same basic principles except for divorce... hmmm.... that's interesting. But if you ask members from both religions that are more bull-headed than necessary, they won't even consider what I said and most likely claim that the two religions are completely different. My belief is that there were "Mormons" and "Christians" and then groups broke off from the two. Well... American Indians, Asians and what not are a whole different matter, but anyway. Look at it like this, you have two mirrors, the frame of one is Mormonism the frame of the other is Christianity, smash the glass inside each. You might have part of the mirror but you don't have the whole thing.
Why Bother

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#33645
Jun 24, 2014
 
My_Dogs_Name_Is_Jack wrote:
The only thing I see is everyone pointing fingers. all e two mirrors, the frame of one is Mormonism the frame of the other is Christianity, smash the glass inside each. You might have part of the mirror but you don't have the whole thing.
Maybe a lot of pointing and blaming is just what religion boils down to. It was Henry VIII who basically caved and decided to go Protestant after he could not persuade the Vatican to let him Divorce. He did not create the Protestant faith, he just saw it as the lesser of two evils for his own personal needs.
Up until that point, Henry was a staunch supporter of Catholicism and wrote passionately for the Catholic point of view. Then it became inconvenient when he had only a daughter by the Queen of Spain to succeed him.
So Henry gets the hots for other women. He marries "illegally" another woman, Anne Boylan sp?, has yet another female child by her, Elizabeth, the red headed one.
Anne was amazing actually. She allowed herself to be executed simply because she would not relent and remove Elizabeth from the list of potential heirs. So Anne may have been an adulteress, but she died for the sake of her daughter's future. How many men would do that for a daughter back then? Probably zero.
Anyway, King Henry just could not be satisfied sexually or with his offspring. So he beheads Anne and then goes onto marriying again and again. He never gets his male offspring to live long enough to be King.
Ironically, Elizabeth becomes Queen. She is a good one too if you measure a monarch's worth in terms of growing a Kingdom in financial and territorial conquests. She kicks Spain's butt, the most threatening foe at the time. The person that King Henry least wanted to succeed him, not only did, but out shined him. Any other father would have been proud beyond words.
But if King Henry had been alive to witness it, he could never imagine or care, because when it came down to it, Henry did not value women. They were just tools of gratification and vessels for procreation, nothing more.
Poor Elizabeth can't seem to see that and instead of rejecting religion, she embraces the one religion that her father embraced. Elizabeth was a terrible example of tolerance and persecuted the Irish and even her own relatives who were Catholic.
It makes no sense because both religions devalue women. She knew this first hand because she had to fight everyday to keep her crown against a bunch of stodgy old men who were ticked off that she would not marry and give England over to a King or procreate and provide a male heir.
Religion has a way of brainwashing even the smartest people into sticking with a church even if it is oppressive and unjust. Simply because we think it is our only path to salvation.
That is a major messed-up situation right there.
Pretty sure that is not what God intended.
Why must we subscribe to any religion? Why can't people simply live a good life, be grateful to God and helpful to the world through good works?
Why must we get into these petty theological discussions that serve no other purpose than to divide people into factions.
Just utter BS.

Since: Jun 14

Salt Lake City, UT

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#33646
Jun 25, 2014
 
Protester wrote:
I know of many Mormons who have committed serious felonies and got away with them. The Church knows about them, and helps hide it all from the public.
Amazingly, they're all good old white boys!
Attorney Steven Bangerter was even promoted in the Church instead of disciplined, or turned in to the authorities for prosecution.
I'll do a little research to prove the corruption.
So do a lot of people in every religion

Name a religion in which people don't "get away" with serious felonies

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