Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Full story: CNN 31,993

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25940 May 24, 2013
My view is that Cain's mark had nothing to do with skin color. And your replies are in line with Mormon, KKK, and all sorts of crazy blasphemy.

the black panther is a totally unrelated discussion.
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
And, you need to stop carrying the water for the black panther.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25941 May 24, 2013
So let me help you clear your misunderstanding:

My replies have nothing to do with feeling sorry for myself.

I feel sorry for you, and I feel sorry for black people who accept your mormon racist teachings.

I also know that you want to legitimize your ideology by pretending that I feel sorry for my own skin color.

It's like saying "the reason they him is because he is black"

BUT the truth is

"The reason why they hate him is because they are ignorantly obsesed with hating his black skin"

see the difference?

So the race war you perpetuate is where you go on trying to make a case that Cain was marked with black skin and that is where black people come from.

That is where the race war starts.

So you disengage, back off, and drop it. Perhaps you should also take a chill pill since you keep replying trying to defend something that is indefensible.

Because the truth is, you don't feel good about yourself, unless you can convince yourself that I exist as the result of a curse.
sportxmouse wrote:
Stop feeling sorry for yourself because your black... you could be purple (Like Barney the Dinosaur).
Start treating people like individuals and maybe they will start treating you like an individual.
The race war 'that you started in here'... there is no end to it until you stop pursuing it.
We heard your side
- the part you would tell, and the part you twisted
- now find some peace and take a pill or something before you have a heart attack or end up in the hospital again.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25942 May 24, 2013
What research do you have that brings up Cain and black skin?

A SYRIAN PRIEST from the 5th century?

That's the strength of your argument?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't take advice from people who:
You don't believe in research.
You don't believe in God.
You said you would kill Jesus Christ for his teachings.
You called Jesus Christ a Pig, a Retard,
You don't even believe in Genesis... you said "it was a myth"

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#25943 May 24, 2013
osirica wrote:
My view is that Cain's mark had nothing to do with skin color. And your replies are in line with Mormon, KKK, and all sorts of crazy blasphemy.
the black panther is a totally unrelated discussion.
<quoted text>
She's a heretic...

burn her alive,
boil her in oil,
bury her alive,
beat her down...

Good grief... Dana started the KKK talk. I respond to him... and you respond like the Church of Rome.

You need help dude.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#25944 May 24, 2013
The black panther is racism

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25945 May 24, 2013
Yea so...

You're off topic.
sportxmouse wrote:
The black panther is racism

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25946 May 24, 2013
So lets clear it up,

You mentioned two times clearly that the mark of cain is black skin or really could be

You wanted some explanation of where different skin colors come fro (we already have provided that).

How is your view different than that of the KKK on this matter? They think that black people are the descendent of Cain and their skin came from the mark of Cain.

Are you saying that you do not share this view?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
She's a heretic...
burn her alive,
boil her in oil,
bury her alive,
beat her down...
Good grief... Dana started the KKK talk. I respond to him... and you respond like the Church of Rome.
You need help dude.
StupidLovesScoff ing

Yuba City, CA

#25947 May 24, 2013
osirica wrote:
Your first reference doesn't actually quote anything, it's a comment about something we cannot read.
your second Armenian Book is from the 5th or 6th century.
Not from the 1st or 2nd. Not from B.C.
and it talks about his FACE, not changing his RACE.
The point is, and you've been reading, you have some very isolated teachings that do not go back far enough and they are speculations that do not even make sense.
The rabbinic texts about his countenance confused that with the "mark"? But we don't have what they are saying to discuss, just this commentary that you are cynically postihng.
"God beat cain with coal until his face turned black". Where oh where does THAT even come about from the texts? It has no effect on this discussion. That doesn't even discuss the curse on Cain.
<quoted text>
You sound drunk, you're so stupid.

Actually you sound like a deluded race-baiting systematic liar so you can masturbate about your brownness.

"That guy" you try desperately to hand wave into something other than NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS' JEWISH TEACHING

"The Cainite view argues that Cain was born white, but after his unacceptable sacrifice and the murder of his brother, Abel, he was turned black as punishment and became the progenitor of all black people.
***
According to some of the rabbinic Midrashim (in both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud),
***

because Cain offered an unacceptable sacrifice, the smoke from this unacceptable sacrifice blew back on him, turned him black and caused all of his children to be born black.

===
Turns out to BE: NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS of JEWISH teaching.

The FURTHER PROBLEM YOU'VE GOT after not proving they're WRONG,

is TRYING to FOIST IT OFF on EUROPEANS.

===
You've been TALKING to ME less than ONE ROUND of DEBATE
and I've CAUGHT you LYING,

trying to claim Cain wasn't exiled.

Exile was the first thing God did to Adam

and it's OBVIOUSLY what was very NEGATIVELY on CAIN's mind as he cried out about WHAT GOD TOLD HIM was GOING to HAPPEN.

Your brownness doesn't preclude you from being called a liar as soon as your caught trying to do it

and it took you exactly ONE ROUND to get caught trying it.

You're done lying to me for now, I know I can come back and find you lying at any point along your bullshoot, I knew I could do it now.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#25948 May 24, 2013
osirica wrote:
So lets clear it up,
You mentioned two times clearly that the mark of cain is black skin or really could be
You wanted some explanation of where different skin colors come fro (we already have provided that).
How is your view different than that of the KKK on this matter? They think that black people are the descendent of Cain and their skin came from the mark of Cain.
Are you saying that you do not share this view?
<quoted text>
Oh NO, NO, NO... I've mentioned it MORE than 2 times.

I believe the MARK Cain acquired for killing his brother so that he would stand out so he could be identified (was not a bird as you suggest)... I believe God changed the color of his skin so that he would not be killed.

It was an identifier... a blessing to him.

Genesis 4:13
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, aMy punishment is greater than I can bear.

He was ashamed. God lessened his burden... and spared him by changing his color so he would not be killed.

Are you ashamed of who you are?

BUT, NO I do not believe Adam and Eve were black.
Your Ugly

Englewood, CO

#25949 May 24, 2013
Josesph smith was probably drunk
Your Ugly

Englewood, CO

#25950 May 24, 2013
Joseph Smith was known to be a stoner and was probably was just seeing things. He probably never saw those freaking golden tablets. -I used to be a mormon until the freaking mormon church said that I was a stupid freak and that I would never commit to anything in my life.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25951 May 24, 2013
And he changed the skin color to what?

And why, vs any other color?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh NO, NO, NO... I've mentioned it MORE than 2 times.
I believe the MARK Cain acquired for killing his brother so that he would stand out so he could be identified (was not a bird as you suggest)... I believe God changed the color of his skin so that he would not be killed.
It was an identifier... a blessing to him.
Genesis 4:13
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, aMy punishment is greater than I can bear.
He was ashamed. God lessened his burden... and spared him by changing his color so he would not be killed.
Are you ashamed of who you are?
BUT, NO I do not believe Adam and Eve were black.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25952 May 24, 2013
And how does changing his skin color protect him, vs any other sign?

Am I to assume that the skin color of whatever he was changed to... it was a skin color of a type that did not exist before?

If so, what type are you referring to, and why?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh NO, NO, NO... I've mentioned it MORE than 2 times.
I believe the MARK Cain acquired for killing his brother so that he would stand out so he could be identified (was not a bird as you suggest)... I believe God changed the color of his skin so that he would not be killed.
It was an identifier... a blessing to him.
Genesis 4:13
13 And Cain said unto the Lord, aMy punishment is greater than I can bear.
He was ashamed. God lessened his burden... and spared him by changing his color so he would not be killed.
Are you ashamed of who you are?
BUT, NO I do not believe Adam and Eve were black.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25953 May 24, 2013
The Cainite view, shared by the KKK and Mormonism...

Not shared by Jews today, nor by Christians.

is that Cain was white and then was turned black.

Is that YOUR view? Come on old sport!

And cain and adam and exiling... it really has no bearing on any of this.

"Adam" was exiled. Cain was not.
StupidLovesScoffing wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound drunk, you're so stupid.
Actually you sound like a deluded race-baiting systematic liar so you can masturbate about your brownness.
"That guy" you try desperately to hand wave into something other than NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS' JEWISH TEACHING
"The Cainite view argues that Cain was born white, but after his unacceptable sacrifice and the murder of his brother, Abel, he was turned black as punishment and became the progenitor of all black people.
***
According to some of the rabbinic Midrashim (in both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud),
***
because Cain offered an unacceptable sacrifice, the smoke from this unacceptable sacrifice blew back on him, turned him black and caused all of his children to be born black.
===
Turns out to BE: NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS of JEWISH teaching.
The FURTHER PROBLEM YOU'VE GOT after not proving they're WRONG,
is TRYING to FOIST IT OFF on EUROPEANS.
===
You've been TALKING to ME less than ONE ROUND of DEBATE
and I've CAUGHT you LYING,
trying to claim Cain wasn't exiled.
Exile was the first thing God did to Adam
and it's OBVIOUSLY what was very NEGATIVELY on CAIN's mind as he cried out about WHAT GOD TOLD HIM was GOING to HAPPEN.
Your brownness doesn't preclude you from being called a liar as soon as your caught trying to do it
and it took you exactly ONE ROUND to get caught trying it.
You're done lying to me for now, I know I can come back and find you lying at any point along your bullshoot, I knew I could do it now.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25954 May 24, 2013
By the way, both talmuds were not compiled until the 3rd - 4th centuries.

And they have a wide variety of other things they say about Christians and Jesus:

He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

But I'm sure you will make an excellent argument in support of the Talmud...

So let's keep going.
StupidLovesScoffing wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound drunk, you're so stupid.
Actually you sound like a deluded race-baiting systematic liar so you can masturbate about your brownness.
"That guy" you try desperately to hand wave into something other than NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS' JEWISH TEACHING
"The Cainite view argues that Cain was born white, but after his unacceptable sacrifice and the murder of his brother, Abel, he was turned black as punishment and became the progenitor of all black people.
***
According to some of the rabbinic Midrashim (in both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud),
***
because Cain offered an unacceptable sacrifice, the smoke from this unacceptable sacrifice blew back on him, turned him black and caused all of his children to be born black.
===
Turns out to BE: NEARLY TWO THOUSAND YEARS of JEWISH teaching.
The FURTHER PROBLEM YOU'VE GOT after not proving they're WRONG,
is TRYING to FOIST IT OFF on EUROPEANS.
===
You've been TALKING to ME less than ONE ROUND of DEBATE
and I've CAUGHT you LYING,
trying to claim Cain wasn't exiled.
Exile was the first thing God did to Adam
and it's OBVIOUSLY what was very NEGATIVELY on CAIN's mind as he cried out about WHAT GOD TOLD HIM was GOING to HAPPEN.
Your brownness doesn't preclude you from being called a liar as soon as your caught trying to do it
and it took you exactly ONE ROUND to get caught trying it.
You're done lying to me for now, I know I can come back and find you lying at any point along your bullshoot, I knew I could do it now.
StupidLovesScoff ing

Yuba City, CA

#25955 May 24, 2013
osirica wrote:
The Cainite view, shared by the KKK and Mormonism...
Not shared by Jews today, nor by Christians.
is that Cain was white and then was turned black.
Is that YOUR view? Come on old sport!
And cain and adam and exiling... it really has no bearing on any of this.
"Adam" was exiled. Cain was not.
<quoted text>
Enough of your lying just because you own a keyboard.

9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold,***thou hast driven me out*** this day*** from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

ex·ile
Noun
***The state of being barred from one's native country, typically for political or punitive reasons.***
===
Verb
***Expel and bar (someone) from their native country, typically for political or punitive reasons.***
===

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25956 May 24, 2013
Talmud...

We are going there. So far nothing about cain and black people in the Talmud

Talmud Bavli, Sanhedrin 108b

Our Rabbis taught: Three copulated in the ark, and they were all punished — the dog, the raven, and Ham. The dog was doomed to be tied, the raven expectorates [his seed into his mate's mouth]. and Ham was smitten in his skin from him descended Cush (the negro) who is black-skinned.

Now notice two things.

1. This has nothing to do with the Curse of Ham where he saw his father drunk
2. It addresses "CUSH", not "Canaan"
3. They consider some kind of "smiting" to be the black skin itself. Not sure, but I think they think having black skin is some kind of curse. Kind of idiotic and prejudiced though.

But now you have another non-biblical ideology that came about in the 4th century.

Now you'd think that as a Christian, you'd see how this is another evidence of why we should be Christian, and why we shouldn't follow Jewish tradition.

But more than that, you see how this came about through trying to connect a legend about Ham to Canaan.

There is nothing in here that shows a legacy going back to the time of the Bible writers teaching this.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25957 May 24, 2013
All you are doing is posting the quote from the Bible.

The point is, if he were merely turned to a different skin color, that would attract MORE attention to him, making him EASIER to find and thus kill.

Whatever the sign or mark is, it would be something that would actually PROTECT HIM.

Changing his skin color... that doesn't protect him, nor does it do enough (obviously not) to warn those who would try to kill him or his descendents.

It didn't stop whites from enslaving and killing black people did it? Yet along the way they swore their black skin came from the mark of Cain

THEREFORE...

The idiotic notion had no traction in any biblical not even any antiquity writings on the matter.

of course unless you want to include the Talmud. Oh oops, they talk about Ham and Cush... not Cain.
StupidLovesScoffing wrote:
<quoted text>
Enough of your lying just because you own a keyboard.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold,***thou hast driven me out*** this day*** from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
ex·ile
Noun
***The state of being barred from one's native country, typically for political or punitive reasons.***
===
Verb
***Expel and bar (someone) from their native country, typically for political or punitive reasons.***
===
StupidLovesScoff ing

Yuba City, CA

#25958 May 24, 2013
osirica wrote:
By the way, both talmuds were not compiled until the 3rd - 4th centuries.
And they have a wide variety of other things they say about Christians and Jesus:
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
But I'm sure you will make an excellent argument in support of the Talmud...
So let's keep going.
<quoted text>
CHANGING the SUBJECT
to ANYTHING BUT
the CLAIM
Y.O.U. can't PROVE

leaves you unable to back up anything you said.

Leaving "US" no place to move on, TO.

You've been caught lying twice in one short conversation.

You're dismissed.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25959 May 24, 2013
Now that I reeled you in, making you think you had some traction. Getting back to the devastating point:

Owth is not "skin changing color on a person's body"

And even more ammo for me is this:

All of your historical references? NONE of them properly address the mark of Cain in the context of the Bible.

You have stuff about Ham, stuff about Kush, you have stuff about coal, and stuff about Cain's FACE. You have stuff about his countenance and other isolated references about this and that.

NOTHING about CAIN being MARKED with BLACK SKIN.

The earliest you will find comes from Islam, and the earliest Christian reference is from a Syriac in the 5th century that goes on some thing about an Adam-Book.

But the Jewish Talmud has all KINDS of discussion about Cain and the mark

Abba Arika ("Rab") said that God gave Cain a dog, making him an example to murderers.

Abba Jose ben Hanan said that God made a horn grow out of Cain. R. Hanin said that God made Cain an example to penitents (Gen. Rab. 22:12).

Rashi comments on Genesis 4:15 that the mark was one of the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton: "He engraved a letter of His [God's] Name onto his [Cain's] forehead."

In Kabbalah, the Zohar states that the mark of Cain was one of the twenty-two Hebrew letters of the Torah, although the Zohar's native Aramaic doesn't actually tell us which of the letters it was. Some commentators, such as Rabbi Michael Berg in his English commentary on the Zohar, suggest that the mark of Cain was the letter vav.

Funny... more notions about letters on his forehead than about his SKIN changing color...

Yet you are not going along with what the HISTORIANS teach... ARE YOU

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