Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32065 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Truth Seeker ”

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#23228 Apr 9, 2013
All Mormons should see this latest testament of Jesus Christ on YouTube. It's a short video.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23229 Apr 9, 2013
Trouble in Paradise?

Elder Julio Enrique Dávila of the Seventy left the Mormon church, he found out that it is a fraud

He was a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1991 to 1996. He was the first person from Colombia to be a general authority of the LDS Church.

Dávila was born in Bucaramanga, Colombia. Dávila was raised primarily in Cartagena. After graduating from college, he moved to Bogotá where he met Mary Zapata, whom he married in 1958. They became the parents of two daughters.

Dávila joined the LDS Church at the age of 36 in 1968. Dávila served as a branch president, and in district presidencies. On 1977-05-23, Dávila became the first president of the Bogotá Stake—the first stake of the LDS Church in Colombia.

In 1972, Dávila began working for the Church Educational System (CES). He became a full-time employee of CES in 1973. From 1981 to 1984, Dávila served as president of the Colombia Cali Mission of the church Dávila was the first Colombian to serve as a mission president in the church.

Dávila served twice as a regional representative, which calling he held when he was called to the Second Quorum of the Seventy. He was called to the Second Quorum of the Seventy in 1991, where he served for five years. Released in 1996, he spent most of his service as a general authority in Latin America. For part of this time, he was in the presidency of the South America North Area of the church.

https://www.facebook.com/LDSFacts

Looking for confirmation.

Since: Jun 09

Schenectady, NY

#23230 Apr 9, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
If you know so much about what you are talking about... then you will realize there is no way for an uneducated man to set up the Church without help.
Do you think farm boy, with little education, can write the Book of Mormon (with no conflicting statements) and keep it all straight in a 3 month time frame?
I thought the Angel Morini who revealed the tablets was helping. I would have thought like the Bible the Book of Mormon would be an inspired work of God.. Unforntunately it isn't. It is a book of fiction made up by a convict (yes Joseph was arrested in Palmyra, and in South Bainbridge) he was no more than a con artist) This was 4 years before he concocted the Book of Mormon. Court documents prove he was a convicted criminal.

So who am I to believe, a convict or the Most High God?

I'm going to say God on this one

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23231 Apr 9, 2013
Interesting:

The Unknown Story of Julio Davila, General Authority

Julio Davila is a former 70 from Colombia. In the mid-90's Colombian became a focus for the church- Calling authorities from there, temple, etc. They believed that since the risk of kidnapings and attacks on church facilities was dwindiling, that this would be the next Brasil.

Enter Julio. He was called to the 2nd quorum of the 70's. Spoke at general conference, he was a gifted speaker and then he dissapeared...well my father and I know Julio well, this is what happened:

Julio came to Salt Lake often for his calling. During these trips he received his 2nd annointing. After a lifetime of service, He began to realize that church was not at all what he was led to believe.

Julio has a secretary. Julio had an affair with this secretary. Julio took her as a "second wife". Julio was one of the few GA's ever to want to go public, despite the affair about the church. The church reminded him of his legal (contractual and financial) obligations to the church. Julio quietly moved to Mexico City, where he resides this day with his secretary.

A few years ago, my dad called him. My dad wanted to know if he would help with a non-profit effort in Colombia.

He greeted him- Brother Davila, how nice to hear your voice! Davila responded- I am not your brother, please dont call me your brother. He explained to my dad that the church would have a hard time getting anyone of color into the 70 or the 12 becuase white people are culturally willing to see the fraud and think that it is for a grander course, while minorities tend to see it, take it and live it all literally.

Needless to say Julio was pissed he was contacted and was ansked to be left along. This of course ecalated to a massive call/ love bombing by another friend. Julio responded that being in or out of the church was not a matter of following Jesus, or of even belief, it was a matter of what set of lies you believed or could not believe. He asked to never be contacted again. That he came to know this was not christ's church and that no ammount of good intentions, group think, or apologies would make it christ's church and that he had no interest in it at that point. He said that he was ecouraged to look past the faults, becuase he was told these were the faults of well meaning men.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23232 Apr 9, 2013
I wonder how many GA's have simple dissapeared into oblivion, how many know what fraud this is, how many have been kept silenced.
Can you elaborate on what these obligations are. I've suspected that the cult used some kind of legal means to keep people quiet. Perhaps giving them loans that can be called due of they step out of line. Can you tell us more about this point?
May dad was a church employee for 20 years before he left. I myself did a bit of consulting for them 15 years ago. This is what I have learned myself:

Intellectual reserve, the legal proprietary arm of the church, makes you sign a contract. You cannot disclose what you did for them, how much you were paid or that you were hired as a contractor (I was). You cannot keep copies of the work, talk or publish it, it is owned it its entirety by the church. General authorities (I don't know of this applies to 2nd quorum of the 70's) sign over their property over to a trust, if you violate your contract they keep your property.

What I have researched and heard from other ex- leaders: Since the time of BY, the church "lends" money to GA's for personal projects. This money is interest free and does not have to be repaid (this is for legal, tax and doctrinal reasons) if you tow the line. If you step out of line it becomes due and it is a lien on your property. Any income from sitting on boards, as director, consultant, etc- which is what the 12 spend most of their time doing, you keep, if you leave, since you are a representative of the church on those boards, you lose and may have to pay back. of course you loose your "living expenses" (60-120K), your access to church property for personal use (Hawaii, Florida, Europe, etc)

This is how a "humble" life long seminary teacher (BKP) or meager church employee (GBH) can end up as millionaires as pass on significant wealth to family members. If you step out of line, its all gone and you are in serious legal trouble.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23233 Apr 9, 2013
http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com/2013/04...

On April 6, 2013 Grant Palmer, former CES teacher and author of two outstanding books (1 & 2) on issues in the LDS church, released a statement through an anonymous blog about his meeting with mission presidents and a first quorum of the seventy member of the LDS church.

Many many people have called the account fable and rumor. I’ve heard these experiences since last November, and Grant alluded to them (with the mission presidents) in the exmormon foundation conference (where he also mentioned my public resignation) last October (2012). Late Sunday (April 7), Grant reconfirmed to me personally that the account is indeed from him and that the unnamed General Authority (GA) is fully aware of its posting. That does not mean that the opinions given by the mission president or GA are fact. Here are some of the statements and claims, bulleted. I want it to be very clear that I believe Grant Palmer is of the highest integrity. That some of the claims aren't factual doesn't mean Grant has failed in reporting what he has experienced. It is what it is. Now onto the claims.

The plot thickens....

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#23234 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
http://mormondisclosures.blogs pot.com/2013/04/rumor-rumor-ev ery-where-nor-any-fact-to.html
On April 6, 2013 Grant Palmer, former CES teacher and author of two outstanding books (1 & 2) on issues in the LDS church, released a statement through an anonymous blog about his meeting with mission presidents and a first quorum of the seventy member of the LDS church.
Many many people have called the account fable and rumor. I’ve heard these experiences since last November, and Grant alluded to them (with the mission presidents) in the exmormon foundation conference (where he also mentioned my public resignation) last October (2012). Late Sunday (April 7), Grant reconfirmed to me personally that the account is indeed from him and that the unnamed General Authority (GA) is fully aware of its posting. That does not mean that the opinions given by the mission president or GA are fact. Here are some of the statements and claims, bulleted. I want it to be very clear that I believe Grant Palmer is of the highest integrity. That some of the claims aren't factual doesn't mean Grant has failed in reporting what he has experienced. It is what it is. Now onto the claims.
The plot thickens....
A religion run by the mob and the Klan

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23235 Apr 9, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
A religion run by the mob and the Klan
While I have no doubt that many of the GA's are true believers, I also think some are not and are just in it for the money and power.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23236 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody who has a D&C has been given it. It has been revealed to them. The stupidity and ignorance is yours.
There are days it amazes me you can tie your own shoes with what you write.
What should amaze you is for 30 years as a Mormon you never paid attention in Sunday school or priesthood meetings to hear the teacher on occasion state polygamy wasn't a law given to every elder under Smith and Young. And now that you have stated an out right pathetic lie that polygamy was given as a law for every elder to obey which it wasn't, now you don't have the decent honesty to admit you were wrong. So now you'd rather continue with your lie and maintain the status as a liar which you don't seem to mind being.
Being honest isn't hard. But maintaining the stupid pathetic ignorant lie you're maintaining because you can't be honest, that's true proven stupidity and ignorance. But you keep at what you do best, being dishonest in the face of historical facts.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23237 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody who has a D&C has been given it. It has been revealed to them. The stupidity and ignorance is yours.
There are days it amazes me you can tie your own shoes with what you write.
Since you suffer brain farts that prevent you from remembering how to do research on the internet, pretend this writing is a towel for you to wipe the crap from your brain so you can digest the information intelligently for a moment okay?
"The history of polygamy begins in ancient times and is recorded in the Bible. Some of the men who practiced plural marriage then were sinning because they had not specifically been commanded by God to do so. Joseph Smith stated:“I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise”(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 324)."
Now please read again s-l-o-w-l-y....
Joseph Smith stated:“I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise”(UNLESS THE LORD DIRECTS OTHERWISE)(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 324)."

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23238 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see a "do it and shut up" statement. I see more of "it's your choice" statement.
But you are famous for seeing things that are not even there, like teachings for eternal marriage. LOL!!!!
lol...that's because as with Monson's statement, there wasn't a "do it and shut up" statement as you made a lie about. I just did as you did and you find me wrong? How fricking hypocritical of you as is normal...lol.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23239 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nice.
It was describing your mentality.

"..and one (Dana) cannot accept Jesus as Lord without obeying Him."

And that was nice of him to be indirectly speaking of you :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23240 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Now ask me if I care.
You don't care what Grant said? Liar. You stated in a previous post you were going to try and contact him by phone and in the following post you stated..."Well, I'll look into it anyway, if you don't mind." Yet you stated you didn't care what Grant said when you replied..."Now ask me if I care."
Liar. If you didn't care what he said you wouldn't try to contact him or look into what he said. Liar.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23241 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You claim the Old Testament was all there yet when he made his statement. I showing hit was by the fact he quoted from many of the books. You are thicker today than usual, pitiful.
Your entire post is baseless. Know why? Because I never stated "..the old testament was all there..." Give it another try by what I actually said eh? Can you do that? Huh?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23242 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I was posting like you do. How does your medicine taste?
lolol....No you weren't. If you posted like me at all, you wouldn't lie as much as you do and when you say something that's wrong, you'd admit it. And you lie consistently and you next to never admit when you're wrong, you'd rather continue being wrong than be honest about being wrong.
Next, I was asking for a list of prophets accepted by Christians since the death of Christ, not prior to Christ. See, you fail to understand their were no Christians prior to Jesus to accept any prophets so you were wrong in your response twice.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23243 Apr 9, 2013
Cfoote wrote:
To a Mormon this story is history, but to historians it is simply a fiction, concocted by Joseph Smith within his "Book of Mormon." The complete lack of any objective archaeological or historical proof to support such a story is explained away by Mormon apologists to the faithful.
The Bible to Christians is history, but it's a book of fiction to historians and scientists because it's central theme is about an invisible god that created everything from nothing.
According to historians and scientists, real people in real time eras existing in real geographical areas at different times wrote a little here and there about an invisible god. But the book is still fiction to them.
Archaeology and history may prove to invisible god believers the Bible is true and factual, but to historians and scientists, archaeology and history have never proved an invisible god as being true. So the Bible remains a book of fiction. What now?
By the way, check out these links...
http://www.sitchin.com/elephant.htm
http://usahitman.com/tacosop/
They show modern elephant likenesses that Smith claim existed on the Americas some 1800 years ago.
Also, Smith claimed there was continental travel a couple thousand years ago. Seems he got that right too. This link might interest you...
http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/m...

American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies

S. A. Wells
www.colostate.edu

Abstract:

The recent findings of cocaine, nicotine, and hashish in Egyptian mummies by Balabanova et. al. have been criticized on grounds that: contamination of the mummies may have occurred, improper techniques may have been used, chemical decomposition may have produced the compounds in question, recent mummies of drug users were mistakenly evaluated, that no similar cases are known of such compounds in long-dead bodies, and especially that pre-Columbian transoceanic voyages are highly speculative. These criticisms are each discussed in turn. Balabanova et. al. are shown to have used and confirmed their findings with accepted methods. The possibility of the compounds being byproducts of decomposition is shown to be without precedent and highly unlikely. The possibility that the researchers made evaluations from faked mummies of recent drug users is shown to be highly unlikely in almost all cases. Several additional cases of identified American drugs in mummies are discussed. Additionally, it is shown that significant evidence exists for contact with the Americas in pre-Columbian times. It is determined that the original findings are supported by substantial evidence despite the initial criticisms.[Please refer also to <Edlin>]

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23244 Apr 9, 2013
Cfoote wrote:
I would have thought like the Bible the Book of Mormon would be an inspired work of God.. Unforntunately it isn't. It is a book of fiction made up by a convict (yes Joseph was arrested in Palmyra, and in South Bainbridge) he was no more than a con artist) This was 4 years before he concocted the Book of Mormon. Court documents prove he was a convicted criminal.
So who am I to believe, a convict or the Most High God?
I'm going to say God on this one
lol...you're really going out on a slender branch to call Smith a convict aren't you? Do you even know what his punishment was in that case? Did you know that the person that hired him didn't initiate charges against him? Did you know that the son's who were waiting on their dad's death as he was old, a death that would give them a sizable inheritance, they didn't like that their dad was spending their inheritance digging for treasure so they brought charges against Smith to get their dad to quit spending their soon to be money? Did you know that? I bet you didn't know that Smith never made any real money from his money digging, never made him rich. He thought he could find treasure and silver and gold on people's property. People thought he could find these things. I don't even know if he found anything. Strange that a person who people today claim would never find anything was believed by so many to have power to find those things, know what I mean?
Next, that Bible you believe in, the men God used to put it together, they were also murderers and torturers and only God knows what else they were. They literally murdered by burning at the stake and torture and death by imprisonment/starvation anyone that opposed what they taught concerning Jesus. Those men were anti-marriage for the first 20 popes. Clergy were told/warned not to marry and most didn't.
So the next time you want to criticize, check your own backyard first. Like the apostles God choose, one a self professed murderer, one would lie he knew God and the same would try and kill a man arresting God, another would be a money lover and very critical of how the females adored God and would sell him out for a sack of the almighty dollar. The rest would prove to be doubters of the very gospel principles God taught them before his death.
By the way, you already believe in a book authored by doubters and liars and traitors and a murderer. And you find room to complain about Smith? Why am I not surprised at your hypocrisy.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#23245 Apr 9, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...that's because as with Monson's statement, there wasn't a "do it and shut up" statement as you made a lie about. I just did as you did and you find me wrong? How fricking hypocritical of you as is normal...lol.
Monsons statement...tithing IS obedience and don't start fires. There wasn't anything else.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23246 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly what you said: "Lehi was an educated man who wrote Hebrew language in Egyptian Hieroglyphs..."
how did the hieroglyphs get in guatamala area if not by nephi?

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23247 Apr 9, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the evidence.
You have that wrong... I'm not the evidence, but I have read and seen that the evidence exists.

I don't have to depend on people to write opinions like you do.. then like you go copy and paste their opinions and say oh, oh, that's evidence.

:)

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