Mormons baptize Jews murdered in Holocaust

[No Surprise]

Grandpasmurf952 wrote:

Accuse me of being a liar by twisting my words again and again.

I'll repeat this as often as you like till it sinks in.
I twisted nothing of what you said.
You stated I was lake an ignorant black person that was taken into slavery because I was ignorant and uneducated. You stated I was being used as a black slave was used by a white master, my thoughts his thoughts.
That's as racist of a statement that any one can make without calling a person a *igg*r. So you continue with your racist statements. All you'll prove is what you have been proving, that you're willing to equate yourself to a racist to make a racist comment.
I'm sure if there are other racists in this thread, they'll be more than glad to congratulate you for being the true white racist you proving yourself to be.

[Grandpasmurf952]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
,,,....[cut],,....
I'm sure if there are other racists in this thread, they'll be more than glad to congratulate you for being the true white racist you proving yourself to be.

What makes you think I am white?

And how do you come up with your insane rationalization that because I pointed out your being a slave of the ideas of your masters in Utah that I am calling you a black slave?

And like I said before, your preoccupation with black people as slaves reveals the racism of your ideology.

And why do you deny being a racist?

You are really sick!

I find slavery of any human being abhorrent.

But your MASTER in Utah feels differently.

Here is what your hero Brigham Young had to say on the matter:

“You must not think, from what I say, that I am opposed to slavery. No! The negro is damned, and is to serve his master till God chooses to remove the curse of Ham.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, New York Herald, May 4, 1855, as cited in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1973, p. 56

“The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain the Church must go to destruction,- we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam who are heirs to the priesthood until that curse be removed.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Brigham Young Addresses, Feb. 5, 1852, LDS historical department; online at http://www.geocities.com/solmes.geo/aam-brigh... and http://home.teleport.com/~packham/byoung.htm

“Cain slew his brother.... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.

Trace mankind down to after the flood, and tehn another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the ‘servant of servants,’ and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.

How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof.

Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favorable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood.

They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 290-291; online at http://journals.mormonfundamentalism.org/Vol_...

Your church that you deny being a part of is based on racism of the most extreme nature.

The idea of the mark of Cain being based on an increase in skin pigment is insane!

You go ahead and defend your bigoted racist religion by trying to twist my statements to say what they do not.

But you won't succeed in hiding the hideous nature of your church.

I am not alone in seeking to expose all false religions such as yours based on antisemitism and other forms of blatant racism.

And don't delude yourself into thinking I am singling out the Mormons, All patriarchal hierarchical religions that reject the Jewish God and the Jewish Jesus as you do need to be exposed for the primitive barbaric belief systems that they are.

If you have noticed, I no longer explore the Mormon forum, I only post in threads that are cross posted into the main religious forum. The same with the JW forum.

I am confident that there are enough of us in a growing movement of enlightened individuals that have recognized the reality of unconditional LOVE that you reject, to bring down all false religions based on primitive barbarism such as the one you are mindlessly defending.

[Grandpasmurf952]

Father overtime wrote:

The guy in the post above dislikes religious tolerance. And he hates Mormons. Want to go to the octagon to settle this?

I don't hate religious tolerance, I just recognize it for the hypocrisy that it is.

For example, consider the Mormon church and the Mountain Meadows Massacre. This crime in the name of religion was carried out in the treacherous execution of over 100 men, women, and children, that were predominately Methodist, passing through Utah on their way to California:

http://1857massacre.com/MMM/brigham_young_des...

from the above url:

"BRIGHAM YOUNG DESECRATED
THE CHRISTIAN CROSS AND ROCK CAIRN



Wilford Woodruffs



Brevet Major (Captain) James Carleton, the commanding officer of Company K 1st US Dragoons from Fort Tejon, in 1859, had his men after recovering a large amount of the victim's remains built the original Rock Cairn with a Christian cross.
The crude monument, conical in form and fifty feet in circumference at the base and twelve feet in height. This is surmounted by a cross, hewn from red cedar wood, from the ground to the top of the cross is twenty-four feet. On the transverse part of the cross, facing towards the north, is an inscription carved deeply in the wood:
"VENGEANCE IS MINE: I WILL REPAY SAITH THE LORD ."



In 1858 BRIGHAM YOUNG received a presidential pardon for his part in the atrocities at Mountain Meadows from President Buchanan.


Most of the victims in the Fancher wagon train were Methodist and the Christian Cross is a significant symbol of their religion as it is with most Christian religions.




The original Rock Cairn and Cross were desecrated by Brigham Young on May 25, 1861 as recorded in church historian and forth President of the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, Wilford Woodruffs diary. The Tyrannical Prophet Brigham Young stated at the time of the desecration; "Vengeance is mine and I have had a little." The Rock Cairn was leveled to the ground.


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints hierarchy will continue to deny guilt in the September 11, 1857 Mountain Meadow Massacre, even though overwhelming evidence pointsto the church and the church's second President and Prophet Brigham Young. The church's position that only one person John D. Lee, was responsible for the deaths and robbery of one hundred and twenty persons is absolutely Ludicrous."

Religious tolerance?

And then we have the Roman Catholics with the well documented crusades and inquistion.

And of course the many fundamentalist religions that curse all of those who won't join their specific church to everlasting torment in a fiery hell.

Again, religious tolerance?

And I don't hate Mormons, I don't hate anyone. But I find teachings as hateful and murderous as the teachings of the Later Day Saints abhorrent and will seek to expose their insanity as well as that of any religion that considers murder of those who oppose it something approved by GOD.

So you are correct in that I don't practice religious tolerance, especially concerning racist sexist religions such as the Mormons who practice replacement theology which in effect calls the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel a liar.

There are a lot of other serious problems with the teachings of the Later Day Saints as well.

We all need to get informed as to the evil nature of the Roman hoax of Christianity and it's many derivatives that deny the Jewish GOD and the Jewish Jesus and get involved in restoring true Christianity based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD of Israel to humanity that is even now being found to be in accord with the latest scientific findings concerning the nature of the Cosmos!

GOD is LOVE. WE are ALL ONE WITH GOD, even the unloving!

[Father overtime]

Go ahead and take a 2000 year step backwards.

[Grandpasmurf952]

Father overtime,

Restoring historical Christianity is not taking a 2000 year step backwards.

It is breaking free of the Roman hoax of Christianity that all patriarchal hiearchical churches today that mistakenly call themselves Christian are based on.

And in case you are implying Joseph Smith has a more modern outlook on what Christianity is all about you are wrong.

The religion Joseph Smith created is based on the primitive patriarchal tribal god that the nation of Israel outgrew thousands of years ago.

The GOD of Israel is OMNIPRESENT. This was held to be true even before Jesus conducted his ministry based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD that he taught is unconditional LOVE.

Science is just beginning to grasp the truth of our existence in GOD that the historical Jesus recognized over 2000 years ago.

So in that sense, historical Christianity is on par with a form of infinite consciousness that primitive religions such as the Later Day Saints are totally oblivious to. A form of consciousness that actually projects this universe that Joseph Smith mistakenly thought was the only reality as did most people in the 19th century.

This universe is a projection of a greater reality, an illusion. It is no more real than the picture on a television set.

In itself this universe has no substance. Science is confirimng this to be so on several fronts.

The delusion that most of humanity holds to today is that this is our primary reality. And it is on this false premise that all patriarchal hiearchical religions such as the Later Day Saints have based their faith.

This is the opposite of the message of the historical Jesus.

So to sum it up, Father overtime, I am not suggesting we regress, I am suggesting we catch up with the historical Jesus who revealed the holographic nature of the projection most of humanity mistakenly calls home and who is projecting it.

Science is a tool that is helping us catch up with the historical Jesus but we can't do that if we cling to Roman hoax of Christianity.

The Roman hoax of Christianity is guilty of holding humanity back 2000 years in our spiritual development.

Do the research, Father overtime, you will find everything I have said to be so, and you will find your life to be much richer for it.

[No Surprise]

Grandpasmurf952 wrote:

<quoted text>
What makes you think I am white?
And how do you come up with your insane rationalization that because I pointed out your being a slave of the ideas of your masters in Utah that I am calling you a black slave?
And like I said before, your preoccupation with black people as slaves reveals the racism of your ideology.
And why do you deny being a racist?
You are really sick!
I find slavery of any human being abhorrent.
But your MASTER in Utah feels differently.

You also stated...
"You are in a Master slave relationship, no surprise. The patriarchal hierarchical system is all about slavery. Your thoughts are not your own. You may think they are but you are defending what you have been fed since childhood."
...the above by any shrink worth their degree would know you are using the master slave relationship between whites and blacks as a base for what you said in the above. There is no twist.
The racial slight of your statement is there. And you siad it in a most derogatory way as you could think of to say it. You said it the way you did because you know well when one states a person is a slave to a master, the comparison value is 17th and 18th century black America when blacks were slaves to white masters.
That is the racist over tone you wanted to convey. That is the message you wanted to make a statement of. Only one type of person in America was found to be dumb and ignorant and perfect for a slave, black slaves. Their thoughts were not there own. The white master did his best to make his thoughts that black slave's thoughts.
But none of that matters. You have proved you are willing to bend as low to the ground as a belly crawling cur to make a point to show you have lost respect for yourself and how you care not if people respect you back.
You used racist dialogue to make an absolute stupid idiotic point. And you did it in hopes of being demeaning, rude, etc.
The difference between you and me, is I would never disrespect myself to use a racist comment as you have done. But you did and that's our difference.

[No Surprise]

Grandpasmurf952 wrote:

This is the opposite of the message of the historical Jesus.

You have not the faintest idea of who your 'historical Jesus' was.
You have an idea of who you want him to be and that is all.
You have decided every one is wrong concerning God and you're correct.
You have begun you're fight against the 'common idealisms' of Jesus as also did Jim Jones and David Koresh.
You are in your infancy of theistic thoughts as they once were at.
If you doubt this, I challenge you to google each man and see read the info that is out there that details their beginnings.
You're an anti-theistic establishment person. And like Jim and Dave, your message offends more than those that it doesn't offend because you have based all your thinking on what others teach that you claim is ill and wrong.
You claim to be an atheist. But you claim to know the truth of God.
That's a contradiction that'll turn off most people.
When those that are listening to you find out you have no respect for the Bible they have respect for, when they find out you believe they were in what amounts to a racist relationship of master and dumb, ignorant and stupid don't know any better slave with their ministers and priests, you'll have few that will listen any more.
And the only one's that will listen, are those that will do as you accuse others of doing, they will enter a master slave relationship with you, your thoughts their thoughts because you'll convince them their to stupid to think for themselves and to accept what you believe is best for them. Than you can get them to disrespect Modern Christianity and the Bible as you presently loath and disrespect them.
lol...what an epiphany, I have met a future Jim or David in the making!

[No Surprise]

Grandpasmurf952 wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't hate religious tolerance, I just recognize it for the hypocrisy that it is.
For example, consider the Mormon church and the Mountain Meadows Massacre. This crime in the name of religion was carried out in the treacherous execution of over 100 men, women, and children, that were predominately Methodist, passing through Utah on their way to California:
http://1857massacre.com/MMM/brigham_young_des...

Now for some facts that this deceptive person leaves out for any one interested in "..and for the rest of the story.."

Smurf believes Young planned and organized this massacre two months in advance when Young spoke to Indian chiefs, telling them to steal the cattle of this wagon train. An actual conversation to massacre the people of wagon train didn't actually take place. The conversation was about stealing cattle.
According to Smurf, Young than told someone(it's not known who it was)to go and massacre the people of this wagon train and for the Mormon militia in Cedar City to carry out this deed.
So according to Smurf, for several weeks the Mormon militia in Cedar City, all men were told the Indians were going to steal the cattle and the Mormon militia was to massacre men, women and children by way of the blood atonement doctrine. All these men, women and children would be lined up and their throats slit ear to ear with a knife as this was doctrine of how it would be done.
And according to Smurf, all the men in this Mormon militia, men with wives and children, THEY WERE ALL HAPPY AND JOYFUL TO HAVE A CHANCE TO MURDER AND KILL LITTLE CHILDREN, WOMEN AND MEN. They were just a bunch of happy murders to be Mormon men according to Smurf.
So after the Mormon militia plans out how they will accomplish this massacre for several weeks, the day finally comes. The wagon train is passing through with cattle.
What happens? Smurf deceitful won't tell you this which is the rest of the story.
The commander of the Mormon militia suddenly doesn't know what to do. According to Smurf he was commanded by Young to kill all these people and practised doing it for weeks.
But suddenly every one that knew their orders, they don't have a clue as to what to do.
So the commander sends a note to Young asking id they should steal the cattle or massacre the people and steal the cattle.
Young sends a note back telling the commander not to hurt the people but to let them pass by UNHARMED.
What does the commander do? According to Smurf he ignores waiting for an answer from his beloved prophet and takes it on himself to murder the people and steal the cattle with the Indians help.
Now while this massacre is happening, according to Smurf, Young has sent a note to contradict his previous command to murder the wagon people. Smurf would explain Young's God changed his mind.
But Smurf won't explain this contradiction. He won't explain it away because it'll take away for what he with deception preaches.
Never take what Smurf says as what is actually true. He has a tendency to leave out information, just saying :)

[Father overtime]

Grandpasmurf952 wrote:

Father overtime,
Restoring historical Christianity is not taking a 2000 year step backwards.
It is breaking free of the Roman hoax of Christianity that all patriarchal hiearchical churches today that mistakenly call themselves Christian are based on.
And in case you are implying Joseph Smith has a more modern outlook on what Christianity is all about you are wrong.
The religion Joseph Smith created is based on the primitive patriarchal tribal god that the nation of Israel outgrew thousands of years ago.
The GOD of Israel is OMNIPRESENT. This was held to be true even before Jesus conducted his ministry based on the OMNIPRESENT GOD that he taught is unconditional LOVE.
Science is just beginning to grasp the truth of our existence in GOD that the historical Jesus recognized over 2000 years ago.
So in that sense, historical Christianity is on par with a form of infinite consciousness that primitive religions such as the Later Day Saints are totally oblivious to. A form of consciousness that actually projects this universe that Joseph Smith mistakenly thought was the only reality as did most people in the 19th century.
This universe is a projection of a greater reality, an illusion. It is no more real than the picture on a television set.
In itself this universe has no substance. Science is confirimng this to be so on several fronts.
The delusion that most of humanity holds to today is that this is our primary reality. And it is on this false premise that all patriarchal hiearchical religions such as the Later Day Saints have based their faith.
This is the opposite of the message of the historical Jesus.
So to sum it up, Father overtime, I am not suggesting we regress, I am suggesting we catch up with the historical Jesus who revealed the holographic nature of the projection most of humanity mistakenly calls home and who is projecting it.
Science is a tool that is helping us catch up with the historical Jesus but we can't do that if we cling to Roman hoax of Christianity.
The Roman hoax of Christianity is guilty of holding humanity back 2000 years in our spiritual development.
Do the research, Father overtime, you will find everything I have said to be so, and you will find your life to be much richer for it.

What pill did you take? Blue or red?