Council rejects Kare offer

Council rejects Kare offer

There are 301 comments on the Pasadena Star-News story from Sep 4, 2008, titled Council rejects Kare offer. In it, Pasadena Star-News reports that:

Despite a City Council chamber overflowing with supporters young and old, officials rejected a local youth sports league's offer to purchase a piece of land from the city.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Pasadena Star-News.

Since: Sep 13

Walnut Grove, CA

#104 Sep 5, 2013
I guess, like many who have said here, that pre- 7th grade were the best years.

I remember I had a teamate. We both went to the same elementry school. He wasn't a big guy, but he was tough, and a good player. We played together for 4 years.

Starting from the very beginning, the coach always asked "Who wants to lead in prayer?", and his hand would always go up. It was the same for every game we played for 4 years. It was always him.

And his words never changed. It was always "Dear God, helpusnottocheat,lie,cussorswe ar, and helpuswinthisgame, Amen.", real fast. It was like a ritual. Then, done deal, let's go play.

He left after the 7th grade.

He wasn't happy about the the punishment we all recieved when he took cherries out of his lucnch bag, one day, and started sneakily plunking people in the back of the head with them durring history class.
Then everyone caught on, and cherries were getting thrown all around the room. So we all had to go out on the horse-trail and pick weeds.(Trying not to laugh as we did it!)

After the 7th grade, there was no contact with outside students.

We had a funny way of talking in the 8th grade. It sort of mocked the lanquage of the old testament. You would say, like "Is this not rediculous?." It got dubbed 'Jr. High talk', and we were told to stop doing it. That was kind of funny, looking back on it.

That's when we also started to get heavy sermons from old man Hampton. And we were supposed to keep making some heavy decisions, about if we were going to "follow God, or not".

We had no idea, at that time, that 'follow god', in this case, meant to make RHP a sterile and empecaple youth sports powerhouse. No impure thoughts on campus, and with a strict dress and conduct code.

And nothing but excellence in our sports, band, and school-play performances. If we wanted to be a fireman, or a pilot, that seamed to be outside the boundries of god's 'calling'. It was all about occuapations, such as coaching, and teaching.

Pretty soon, after 7 days a week attendace, we became aligned and sycnronized to the needs, and demands, of the school, and 'god'.

Changes happened gradually so that our parents didn't even notice. They even thought, wow, my kid is much more clean cut, than those public school kids, and doesn't use bad language, or even get in trouble.

They would put up with no family vacations, bowling, going to the movies, family visit days, or disneyland. Even TV shows were frowned upon,(but not the show 'Bananza', which old man Hampton said he liked.)

They willingly shelled out tuition, and sports expenses.

There was no dating, except taking a date to the 'inaugural', to see if you got a 'pin' or not. If you didn't get one, it could be excruciatingly embarrassing.

Is it any wonder why, after I left, I grew long hair, chased girls, sometimes caught them, listened to rock music, and drank, sometimes untill I vomitted!

Ah...but this was the 'short season of sin'. My mom was shocked, and was certain I was taken over by Satan. Others in the club confirmed this to her.

Now I had to explain myself. Yet how could I explain? Maybe she will read this some day, and it will help.
Swiss and neutral

Westminster, CA

#105 Sep 5, 2013
Snoop, your experiences sound so familiar to me. We had "jr high" talk when I was there too. I agree, it was very funny for us but frowned upon by the leaders.

When younger, that was the same prayer almost all of us said. Apparently, not cheating, swearing or lying, sums up what Kare teaches youngsters (sad). Not cheating, swearing or lying all good things for kids to strive for, but come on, what about compassion, understanding or forgiveness (forgiving others), can't kids be taught these good principals as well? Just a thought.

I'm a bit sorry no proponents of Kare are chiming in to these discussions recently. If anyone reading these posts disagrees with those of us who were hurt while there, this could be a good forum to discuss it. We will be as respectful as possible in these discussions, even if we have disagreements. We won't judge you or anyone else for that matter.(Remember, many of us were once in your shoes and my understand more than you think, about Kare and what it may mean to you).
Slim

Perris, CA

#106 Sep 5, 2013
Hi Snoop Cat,
Those stories are right on!!! Without mentioning names, Snoop Cat, I can totally validate ALL of your stories.
If you're a leader reading this, I would say that these years that Snoop Cat was talking about are probably the most volatile and negative years that I heard of that happened at Kare. Very, very sad.
It was almost mandatory to stop and listen to the founder talk if you were walking by to hear his words of wisdom. No one else was on that high plain. His words could not be challenged by a kid or a leader.
Snoop Cat, I'm sure I know you, and I know that these stories are helping others. I have friends and relatives who have told me the same things.
About four years ago, Kare had a kind of family (Kare) reunion on Huntington Dr. in Arcadia at a hotel. My friend said that the theme was, "We've changed." She said everyone meant well that spoke. But she said it would have been comforting to hear, specifically, what they changed from.
That makes it painful when there's no acknowledgement. If Kare would say, "We've changed. We now honor parents and love kids unconditionally. We want to apologize to you that we were not biblical by saying that you had to go to Kare to be a Christian. To all of you that have a parent, sibling, or friend that is still hurt from something specific that was said or done, please write a short note, and that leader will call him or her to apologize for the misdeeds, which are many."
Anyhow, I bring this up, because they are in a dilemma. They (most of them)cannot say that, because their theology says that a Christian cannot sin. This theology is NOT biblical.
My daughter challenged me for saying a mean thing to her. If I was at Kare, I would not have admitted it, because I couldn't sin. But because in reality, I sin EVERY day, I asked her to forgive me, and that I would ask God to help me be more patient. This is real. My daughter loves me. I love her unconditionally. There's not a thing she could do to lose my love. I'm her dad, of course.
Snoop Cat, you had a fun class. I have relatives whom I'm sure love you. You kids were great. In spite of all of the grief, I remember some funny things you kids did. What about a kid who tore the other kids pocket, accidentally, So the kids gave the other a black eye? Remember that one? I hope you keep in touch with some kids from your class on the outside.
It's funny, you're stories put me right there with your gang.

Since: Sep 13

Walnut Grove, CA

#107 Sep 6, 2013
Swiss and neutral wrote:
When younger, that was the same prayer almost all of us said. Apparently, not cheating, swearing or lying, sums up what Kare teaches youngsters (sad). Not cheating, swearing or lying are all good things for kids to strive for, but come on, what about compassion, understanding or forgiveness
Did you think I was ragging on them about that prayer? Hmmm...
Are you maybe suggesting "The Lord's Prayer", before playing football or baseball?(That's a joke, I'd like to point out, to prevent being misunderstood even further.)

Since: Sep 13

Monterey Park, CA

#108 Sep 6, 2013
Believe it or not I actually have read throught this entire thread...

Beleive it or not I ddint leave Kare terribly damaged I dont think. Mayb e a little but not terribly so. I was certainly angry at the least.

My last hurrah was in the mid 90s. It was all pretty stupid. I liked a girl. She liked me. We went to the movies without permission. Someboday snitched and then everybody and their mother had mettings with us for like months! Very very stupid. We actually missed HOURS of instruction at their so-called college prep program. They finally decided that neither of us met their "standards" and we were "asked" to leave. The whole time, I was just hopeing I could return to my team and finish the season. we were good and i was down there to play sports and we had a good team. My total time there was about 10 years, about 8 years as a student at RHP.

They do talk a lot of religion. They do talkk about you going to hell. i don't remember it being said straiight out, but it was a clear implication that if you quit Kare you would burn forever. We did spend DAYS AND DAYS talking about the most pathetic details like, we could only call a girl on ph for homework, exactly which radio stations we could listen to, whether a PG-13 movie was okay for us to see, whether we could wear white socks or black socks, I mean it was really really stupid!! We'd spend DAYS talking about stuff like this at our science camps. Ha. Some science education.

Anyway. Luckily for me I was probably ADD and you know? I mostly never really listend. I mostly didn't take their message to heart. My dad was a bachelor and would have his gfs visit our home and I sorta lived in bachelor pad my whole life. Pops and I would have good laughs once in a while making fun of stuff from our "club meetings". So because of that, I was mostly able to focus on playing ball. And I was good. And I was mostly good with all of their stupid rules. and i sorta flew under the radar.

Since: Sep 13

Monterey Park, CA

#109 Sep 6, 2013
when puberty hit though that was different. it is true that there was NO sex education when i was there. the goal was virginity until marriage (big surprise) We weren't even supposed to hold hands, or pass notes or ANYTHING!!! really really stupid little rules. they were scared of sex so they ignored it. So aanyway I was given the boot cuz I liked girls basically.

I was angry for quite a long time. I wanted to play on my teams. I had known most of the guys for 10 years. So i was probably kind of sad too. i was violent for a year or so because i was angry over kare. i got in fights for the smallest things. i went down to the field a few times to watch games, and YES! they do ignore you! I was there for ten years! And they acted like I was invisible! Complete jerks! They weren't ALL that way. A couple actually said hi, how u doing, nice to see you. But 10 years! EVERYONE should have greeted me kindly. I went out w one girl, one time - that was my great sin that I was being ignored for. I'd say 75 to 80 percent of these jerks ignored me when I visited.

I can see how some "quitters" have suffered so much mental pain. I knew some guys who said full heartedly that christ was in their hearts. I knew guys who could cite the bible like nothing and they were true belivers. I could very easliy see how someone like that who had to quit would be crushed.

I can see that.

We were certainly isolated. Kare kept us as busy as possible 7 days a week. if we missed a single day we couldn't play in our games - thats what we were there for! to play games! so we did everything we could to not be benched for our games. So I guess I'm lucky I was sort of ADD and I had my crazy pop and I just didn't take the religious part too seriously. Guess I should thank god for that! Hahaha.

Well. i've already written too much.

I know who aLL those people are that have been mentioned earlier here on this thread. The only one not paart of the cult is Valdez. I think he had a brother there... And I'm pretty sure his bro got smart and quit too. And, yes! That too! They are all married to each other! That is definitely true! No outsiders allowed in leadership. Two names that werent born into it, Heaton and Joe married into those families. Far as I know, all marriages must be pre approved.

I still live withing Kares area of reach, and I do see some old cats here and there and I do hear them say, Oh it's changed so much! I don't know how much they could have changed when all the same people are running the joint. I guess younger generation might be open to change, but really? Theyre all the same families. How much can they really change.

I have my own theories on their growth. There are a LOT of Chinese/Taiwanese close to their main headquarters now in Arcadia. In fact its Majority Asian. I don't think the Asians really take much part in Kare - they got their own after school programs and everything. Kare is expanding east to Covina, Upland, etc. Theyre following the white flight folk who haave some basic christian roots. Most of the new Asians dont have Christian roots either. Plus I know some fool (Sivers?) left them a nice pile of cash... So Kare will be around for a while whther we like it or not.

Maybe they have changed for the better and less people are mentally tortured by their brain washing crap. But that's not my belief. I kept my kids away from there 100%. When people ask me, I tell them the same.
Good luck people. Peace be with you.

Wow! Wrote WAY MORE than I thought!

Since: Sep 13

Monterey Park, CA

#110 Sep 6, 2013
Believe it or not I actually have read throught this entire thread...

Beleive it or not I ddint leave Kare terribly damaged I dont think. Mayb e a little but not terribly so. I was certainly angry at the least.

My last hurrah was in the mid 90s. It was all pretty stupid. I liked a girl. She liked me. We went to the movies without permission. Everybody and their mother had mettings with us for like months! Very very stupid. We actually missed HOURS of instruction at their so-called college prep program. They finally decided that neither of us met their "standards" and we were "asked" to leave. The whole time, I was just hopeing I could return to my team and finish the season. we were good and i was down there to play sports and we had a good team. My total time there was about 10 years, about 8 years as a student at RHP.

They do talk a lot of religion. They do talkk about you going to hell. i don't remember it being said straiight out, but it was a clear implication that if you quit Kare you would burn forever. We did spend DAYS AND DAYS talking about the most pathetic details like, we could only call a girl on ph for homework, exactly which radio stations we could listen to, whether a PG-13 movie was okay for us to see, whether we could wear white socks or black socks, I mean it was really really stupid!! We'd spend DAYS talking about stuff like this at our science camps. Ha. Some science education.

Anyway. Luckily for me I was probably ADD and you know? I mostly never really listend. I mostly didn't take their message to heart. My dad was a bachelor and would have his gfs visit our home and I sorta lived in bachelor pad my whole life. Pops and I would have good laughs once in a while making fun of stuff from our "club meetings". So because of that, I was mostly able to focus on playing ball. And I was good. And I was mostly good with all of their stupid rules. and i sorta flew under the radar.
Swiss and neutral

Westminster, CA

#111 Sep 6, 2013
Snoop, I don't think I misunderstood you. I agree, those prayers were sweet and well meaning. I only wondered why we, as kids, seem to feel that those three things we asked for were the most important things God wanted from us. I wasn't condemning us for that prayer (it was mine as well), I was only wondering why it was we weren't also taught to strive for even deeper more meaningful things such as empathy and compassion. I would rather my kids swore once in awhile and yet were loving, compassionate, forgiving, etc.

Slim, I was at that Kare reunion. I agree with your friend that was there too. You also make a great point as to why they were/are so unforgiving and unlikely to ever say they were sorry for anything (either individually or corporately). It's tide directly to the theology you wrote about.

Since: Sep 13

Monterey Park, CA

#112 Sep 6, 2013
when puberty hit though that was different. it is true that there was NO sex education when i was there. the goal was virginity until marriage (big surprise) We weren't even supposed to hold hands, or pass notes or ANYTHING!!! really really stupid little rules. they were scared of sexuality so they ignored it. So aanyway I was given the boot cuz I liked girls basically.

I was angry for quite a long time. I wanted to play on my teams. I had known most of the guys for 10 years. So i was probably kind of sad too. i was violent for a few years because i was angry over kare. i got in fights for the smallest things. I guess taht was kinda my mental damage. I got violennt. Because i was angry, I admit. I was angry and violent and i guess that's my damage.

i went down to the field a few times to watch games, and YES! they do ignore you! I was there for ten years! And they acted like I was invisible! Complete jerks! They weren't ALL that way. A couple actually said hi, how u doing, nice to see you. But 10 years! EVERYONE should have greeted me kindly. I went out w one girl, one time - that was my great sin that I was being ignored for. I'd say 75 to 80 percent of these jerks ignored me when I visited.

I can see how some "quitters" have suffered so much mental pain. I knew some guys who said full heartedly that christ was in their hearts. I knew guys who could cite the bible like nothing and they were true belivers. I could very easliy see how someone like that who had to quit would be crushed. I can see that. We were certainly isolated. Kare kept us as busy as possible 7 days a week. if we missed a single day we couldn't play in our games - thats what we were there for! to play games! so we did everything we could to not be benched for our games. So I guess I'm lucky I was sort of ADD and I had my crazy pop and I just didn't take the religious part too seriously. Guess I should thank god for that! Hahaha.

Well. i've already written too much.

I know who aLL those people are that have been mentioned earlier here on this thread. The only one not paart of the cult is Valdez. I think he had a brother there... And I'm pretty sure his bro got smart and quit too. And, yes! That too! They are all married to each other! That is definitely true! No outsiders allowed in leadership. Two names that werent born into it, Heaton and Joe married into those families. Far as I know, all marriages must be pre approved.

I still live withing Kares area of reach, and I do see some old cats here and there and I do hear them say, Oh it's changed so much! I don't know how much they could have changed when all the same people are running the joint. I guess younger generation might be open to change, but really? Theyre all the same families. How much can they really change.

I have my own theories on their growth. There are a LOT of Chinese/Taiwanese close to their main headquarters in Arcadia now. In fact its magority Asian. I don't think the Asians really take much part in Kare - they got their own after school programs and everything. Kare is expanding east to Covina, Upland, etc. Theyre following the white flight folk who haave some basic christian roots. Most of the new Asians dont have Christian roots either. Plus I know some fool (Sivers?) left a nice pile of cash... So Kare will be around for a while whther we like it or not.

Maybe they have changed for the better and less people are mentally tortured by their brain washing crap. But that's not my belief. I kept my kids away from there 100%. When people ask me, I tell them the same.

Good luck people. Peace be with you.

Wow! Wrote WAY MORE than I thought!
Swiss and neutral

Westminster, CA

#113 Sep 6, 2013
Didn't see your posts when I wrote my last one Tomas J (we must have been writing at the same time. It seems you had a very typical experience. Glad to hear you don't feel you came out as damaged as you could have.

Yeah, the shunning when you return to watch a game (or whatever) is pretty shocking (at first) and hurtful. Not sure why I was so surprised at this, as it was definitely something Kare teaches their members to do (at least they did when I was there). If they found out you talked with or spent time with a former member, you were definitely reprimanded. This could even include a family member. I think most would agree, that (shunning people) is not really a Christian way of thinking.

Aren't Christians supposed to be loving and non judgmental? I know many non-Christians who are far more loving, accepting and non-judgmental then many of the leaders/coaches I had while at Kare.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#114 Sep 6, 2013
Tomas J wrote:
I was angry for quite a long time. I wanted to play on my teams. I had known most of the guys for 10 years. So i was probably kind of sad too. i was violent for a few years because i was angry over kare. i got in fights for the smallest things. I guess taht was kinda my mental damage. I got violennt. Because i was angry, I admit. I was angry and violent and i guess that's my damage.
Well... Looks like we've had a few comments in the last month... I think I'm happy to see?

Thanks for this Tomas.

Those of us who claim "damage" as a result of our experiences at Kare will have various amounts of "damage".

When I was a fresh "quitter" of the Kare Youth League/Rio Hondo Prep cult, I knew a couple of guys who were quite angry. And violent. I knew the guys before we all quit (or were kicked out) within a year or so's time. After we were all officially quitters, for a brief time we were all fairly close with each other.

I knew their personalities and felt their rage for basically all of us having our childhood and adolescence stolen from us. Both these guys ended up getting arrested a few times each. They were angry. And violent. And I completely understood why. One of my old friends, unfortunately, had to do a couple of years in the state "corrections" system.

That's a terrible price to pay.

I have mostly lost touch with both of them, but I understand that both have been able to "settle down", and live quiet, productive lives.

I think of them often, and I think of both of them especially right now.

I wish them peace.

I'll be reading.
Glo

Los Angeles, CA

#115 Sep 7, 2013
Audrey wrote:

I think what is most important is our stories. Having the ability to share what happened to us. I am curious about what it was like for you when you left.
I wanted to kill myself when I left Kare.

I felt and experienced all the same things that have been written here. And then some.

I was just about to turn 20. One year after high school at RHP. I had started going to Kare in kindergarten.

The only thing a cult kares about is its own survival.

Since: Sep 13

Walnut Grove, CA

#116 Sep 7, 2013
Glo wrote:
<quoted text>
I wanted to kill myself when I left Kare.
I felt and experienced all the same things that have been written here. And then some.
I was just about to turn 20. One year after high school at RHP. I had started going to Kare in kindergarten.
The only thing a cult kares about is its own survival.
Well, you're conditioned meet their approval in so many ways. This makes the leaders feel 'greater' than they really are, and gives them 'purpose'.

Then when you leave, they withdraw all the approval, that you busted your hump for most your whole life to try to acheive.

A cheap, manipulative trick. A stunt that defies all common sense and decency.

Cult people are in a trance. So you will seldom get common sense, but instead a lot of fabricated garbage.

No one should seek RHP's approval. And no one should pay attention to their DISapproval.

They are cult.

I was in it, and I'm sorry you got emotionally abused there, too.
2nd that

Westminster, CA

#117 Sep 7, 2013
Flo, So happy you didn't follow through with your initial feelings when you left. It sounds like many who have written about their lives while in Kare, including me, were also damaged. Hang in there. Life is good, even if life at Kare isn't.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#118 Sep 8, 2013
Harry wrote:
To the public that would be reading this response, Kare Youth League IS NOT a cult. According to Merriam-Webster, the deifnition of cult is "a religion regarded as unorthodox...."
If he ever bothered to look at the other side of the Kare Youth League cult debate, Harry Joe would be dismayed. Info is easily available about cults and their characteristics. They match Kare's traits almost perfectly.

Take a look for yourself:
http://www.icsahome.com/view_document_faq.asp...

I left the Kare compound a little over ten years ago.

Has Kare changed that much in ten years? Really?
Slim

Perris, CA

#119 Sep 8, 2013
Just to make it easier for readers, I copied the common practices of cults in my comments. After reading them, I don't know about today, but when I was at Kare, I could confirm all of them except one. And even that one is maybe done, at least to a degree.
CULT PRACTICES: Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
· 1)The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. WITHOUT, QUESTION THE FOUNDER'S BELIEFS WERE PUT ABOVE BIBLICAL TRUTHS OR ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION.
· 2)Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. MY FRIEND, WHO WAS VERY ZEALOUS, DOUBTED AND QUESTIONED, JUST TO SEEK TRUTH, AND WAS BAWLED OUT IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE GROUP FOR QUESTIONING.
· 3)Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). WORK WAS VERY EXCESSIVE. I ACTUALLY LIKED WORKING A LOT. BUT IF YOU DIDN'T, SHOW UP AND WORK HARD AT EVERYTHING, YOU WERE DEFINITELY PUNISHED. I REMEMBER FEELING GLAD THAT OTHERS GOT PUNISHED, WHILE I HAD WORKED HARD. I REGRET THAT NOW.
· 4)The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). ONE WOMAN DEFINITELY DICTATED HOW EVERYONE SHOULD HANDLE DATING. WORKING OUTSIDE WAS DEFINITELY MONITORED.
· 5)The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). OUR FOUNDER WAS A STEP ABOVE OTHER OUTSIDE LEADERS, EVEN IF THEY WERE CHRISTIAN. NO ONE ELSE HAD AS GOOD A PROGRAM FOR KIDS AS US.
· 6)The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. OUR SPORTS, SCHOOL, CHURCH ALWAYS SEEMED TO SAY IT WAS US AGAINST THE OTHERS.
· 7)The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). THERE WAS DEFINITELY NO CHECK AND BALANCE SYSTEM. TODAY AT MY CHURCH, THE PASTOR CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT OUR APPROVAL. I'M VERY AWARE, NOW, OF UNCHECKED AUTHORITY. OUR PASTOR IS GREAT, BUT HE'S JUST A MAN, LIKE THE REST OF US, AND HE KNOWS IT.
· 8)The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). AGAIN I WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD BY A LEADER TO "DON'T LISTEN TO YOUR PARENTS," OVER AN ISSUE THAT WAS NOT CONTROVERSIAL IN THE LEAST.
·
Slim --cont

Perris, CA

#120 Sep 8, 2013
My list (cont.)
9)The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. THIS NEVER HAPPENED......JUST KIDDING...I DON'T NEED TO SAY MUCH ABOUT THIS. BUT, BACK IN THE DAY, IF THINGS HAVE CHANGED, IT WAS VERY CLEAR ABOUT FEELING GUILTY, IF YOU MISSED AN ACTIVITY. ALSO, THERE WAS MUCH GUILT, IF YOU DID ANYTHING THAT APPEARED WRONG. I WANT MY OWN KIDS TO FEEL GUILTY IF THEY TALK BACK TO MY WIFE IN A DISRECTFUL WAY. BUT WE CLEAR IT UP WITH ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, THEN FORGIVENESS. IT DOESN'T LINGER THE WHOLE WEEK, MONTH, YEAR, OR LIFE......ENOUGH SAID.
• 10)Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. I HAVE KEPT A LETTER MY DAD WROTE TO ME SAYING THAT SINCE I HAVE PUT KARE AHEAD OF THE FAMILY, NOT TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH HIM. IT'S TOO PAINFUL FOR HIM. WE HAVE HAD GOOD YEARS TOGETHER, BUT I KEEP THAT LETTER AS A REMINDER THAT FAMILY COMES FIRST!!! GOD HAS ALWAYS PUT FAMILIES FIRST, VERY IMPORTANT. IF YOUR PARENTS HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE, WHO KARES MORE ABOUT YOU, THAT YOUR PARENTS?
• 11)The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. NOT A BIG COMMENT HERE, EXCEPT WE NEEDED KIDS FOR RIO
• 12)The group is preoccupied with making money. NOT MUCH TO SAY HERE. LEADERS THERE, I KNOW, AREN'T IN IT FOR THE MONEY. I FEEL THEY ARE SINCERE, ALTHOUGH VERY WRONG WITH THEIR THEOLOGY.
• 13)Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. VERY TRUE. AGAIN, I LOVED PUTTING IN ALL OF THE TIME. BUT IT WAS VERY DEMANDING.
• 14)Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. VERY TRUE. IT WAS OKAY TO SAY HI TO SOME. BUT DON'T GO TO ANOTHER CHURCH OR BIBLE STUDY. I HAD FRIENDS THAT GOT IN TROUBLE FOR GOING TO VISIT SOMEONE TOO MUCH.
• 15)The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. ANOTHER NO BRAINER. BACK THEN, IF YOU LEFT, YOU WERE PROBABLY GOING TO HELL.
Again, I don't think every leader today feels that way. So why not speak up and say that the founder might have had some wonderful aspects, but that he was a man and terribly wrong on many issues. Maybe there is still a lot of intimidation to be quiet. Maybe things haven't changed with the deeper things, like their theology. Is their love still conditional? Is that Jesus' love.
It would be great to hear from a leader to hear their side, so we can learn what had changed.
Thanks, Kare YOuth League Cult, for that list. It almost seems written to describe Kare, at least the Kare I knew.
Slim --cont

Perris, CA

#121 Sep 8, 2013
I knew something like this would happen. My article came out in two parts BACKWARDS. If I was 20 years old, this wouldn't have happened, of course.
1)The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. TO BE SURE, WE HUNG ON THE FOUNDER’S EVERY WORD.
• 2)Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. THIS NEVER HAPPENED……JUST KIDDING…..NEED I SAY?......MY FRIEND GOT BAWLED OUT IN FRONT OF MANY BY INNOCENTLY QUESTIONNING THE FOUNDER.
• 3)Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). IF YOU DID SOMETHING YOU SHOULDN’T, YOU WOULD GET SOME TYPE OF WORK DUTY OR FINE.
• 4)The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). ONE WOMAN DICTATED DATING AND WHAT TO WEAR. OUTSIDE JOBS WERE DEFINITELY MONITORED
• 5)The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). AGAIN, OUR LEADER WAS A CUT ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE.
• 6)The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. OUR SPORTS, SCHOOL, CHURCH WAS USUALLY US VERSUS THEM. WE WERE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.
• 7)The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). NO ACCOUNTABILITY WHAT SO EVER. MY PASTOR AT CHURCH HAS TO GET APPROVAL BEFORE HE CAN DO ANYTHING. I LIKE IT THAT WAY. HE’S A GREAT GUY. BUT HE’S JUST A MAN.
• 8)The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). MY LEADER, AGAIN, TOLD ME TO “NOT OBEY MY PARENTS,” WHEN A NONSERIOUS ISSUE WAS DISCUSSED. THE GOD THAT I KNOW PUTS GREAT IMPORTANCE ON THE FAMILY UNIT. THE CLUB PUT THE PARENTS SECONDARY, OR EVEN ADVERSARIAL.

Since: Aug 13

Yucaipa, CA

#122 Sep 8, 2013
Slim wrote:
Just to make it easier for readers, I copied the common practices of cults in my comments. After reading them, I don't know about today, but when I was at Kare, I could confirm all of them except one. And even that one is maybe done, at least to a degree.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting,Slim.
I agree with your assessment with Kare's cult characteristics 99.9%.:-)

I agree, none of the cult leaders were in it to get rich. However, sufficient funds have always been essential.

As Glo so brilliant put it:
THE ONLY THING A CULT KARES ABOUT IS ITS OWN SURVIVAL.
Can't survive without the money.

They DO have money now thanks to a nice legacy gift.
Wish that guy gave it to a more deserving organization.
2nd that

Westminster, CA

#123 Sep 9, 2013
Really, really Great and eye opening stuff Kare Youth League Cult and Slim. I agree with everything you wrote slim.

Here is an example of the "work routines" mentioned as one of the characteristics of a cult. I remember one summer, while many had left on a summer trip, some of us back at home (there were very few who didn't go on that trip), would work on Saturday's from 7:00 in the morning until 1:00 pm in the afternoon (kids games were during the week in the summer). We were about 18 or 19 years old, just kids really. We also did all the work to keep Kare going during the week too (concession stand, office detail, getting fields ready, etc). I was at Kare on weekdays during that summer from 7:00 in the morning until late in the evening, Monday through Friday.(We all had night jobs doing janitor services, etc, to earn money as all the time we gave at Kare was volunteer). Like slim said, the funny thing was, we loved it (the hard work). We didn't mind hard the work. We also we felt it was benefiting the kids.

So anyway, after working in the hot sun on Saturdays,(adding sod to a field) from 7:00 am to 1:00 pm (it may have even been until about 3:00 pm, don't remember exactly), we would go get a water melon, some "jumbo" burritos, large sodas, pig out and go swimming at my folks home (where I still lived). One of the leaders found out about our "meal and swimming" time on Saturday afternoons. We were severally rebuked in our next "meeting" about the dangers of simply having fun. Our "spiritual lives" were questioned openly in front of everyone (I realize now this was there way of getting this sick message across to those who happened not to have been with us when we were actually having fun). That leader (who rebuked us in front of everybody) is still there, lending his "gift" of leadership to others.

Thought it would be nice to put an actual story to one of the elements slim explained so well. I'm sure many reading and writing on this website, experienced similar things, many which would fall under one of the elements of a cult, which Slim noted for us.

By the way, I used to go by the name "Swiss and neutral", but as I'm obviously not exactly "neutral", thought it was only fair to change my moniker (bad name in retrospect). I do have friends still involved who I HOPE (and believe), do things far differently. But as all the original leadership (those which are still living anyway) are still in charge, I fear any hope for real change may still be far off, if it is ever to happen at all.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

South Pasadena Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News 'Hate does not make America great': Protesters ... 26 min Jocko 4
Review: KCLA-TV Los Angeles on LA71 1 hr KTLA 5 on LA71 37
News Massive crowd gathers at Pershing Square for Wo... 2 hr tomin cali 4
gudbye to costco 2 hr montebello dork 2
News Montebello housing project still on, despite sale 2 hr montebello dork 4
News Planned power outages today in La Puente and In... (May '10) 3 hr Charles 10
weed molly xanies bars perks oc and more 3 hr dope 2

South Pasadena Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

South Pasadena Mortgages