South Pasadena now on record against a tunnel to extend 710 freeway

Full story: Pasadena Star-News

After nearly 60 years of heated debate and more than 40 different resolutions regarding the 710 Freeway extension, City Council members unanimously voted to go on record opposing any extension through South Pasadena.
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1 - 20 of 61 Comments Last updated Jan 28, 2012
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YankeeFlasher

United States

#1 Nov 5, 2010
It is about time

LA City Council said NO SURFACE CONSTRUCTION anywhere in Los Angeles City jurisdiction...

Eight Neighborhood Councils (=300K+) also support the LACity Council and the SoPas Council.

With Glendale, LaCanada, and SoPas we will be back to LACity Council to get LA to stop the $10B mess and attempts to rework the costs in order to get the toll down to <$10 each way...

Oh BTW the costs for the bored tunnel has increased by >30%- let's say project = 5 miles long in 2006; 2miles for portals (not bored)= 3miles bored tunnel - Caltrans recommended/CTC accepted adding an extra mile in Alhambra - 1/3 = 30+%

This is just the start of "Scope Creep" and costs escalation....

Thanks to SoPas - we are moving onto METRO next month.
freeway tunnel deadly

Garden Grove, CA

#2 Nov 5, 2010
Ask Australian's if toll tunnels have worked for them, better yet, watch this video on YouTube - it is a glimpse into "future" for the neighborhoods that border the planned 710 toll-tunnel.


This video is just one of many reports about the killing effects of cargo transport pollution in Melbourne and Sydney Australia (also Brisbane and Victoria).

The results of the toll tunnel are:

1. Trucks exit the tollway to avoid the tolls and use residential street as a bypass...

2. The pollution emitted from an "emission stack" from a 4 Km (2.4 miles) tunnel, which handles 90,000-100,000 cars daily makes the residents sick.“Polluted air is a contributing factor in the deaths of 1,400 people each year in Sydney alone”.

Other reasons for failed tollways:

"flawed" toll cost estimates: Incorrect cost figures analysis based on "free" roads vs "toll" roads led to a total of "eight toll-road PPPs that have caused losses to investors, lenders and taxpayers in the past five years." This led to collecting an inadequate toll revenue of $3.56 minimum for each trip, which motorists were unwilling to pay let alone the estimated $8 per trip the PPP tunnel partnership would need to break even. From "Lies, damned lies and the Bracks tollway" April 16, 2003
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/...

Bad contracts: "99-year lease agreement, unlimited control of the highway and its tolls, as well as a clause protecting the corporation from any competition, not the least of which includes a ban on construction of any nearby provincial highways that may reduce toll revenue." "has been heavily criticized for the poor terms of lease,".... "skyrocketing toll rates" "The company, known as 407 International Inc., is owned by a consortium of Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte (major shareholder) from Spain, Macquarie Infrastructure Group, and Montreal-based engineering firm SNC-Lavalin."About Highway 407 in Canada" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_407> ;
Pedro

Diamond Bar, CA

#3 Nov 5, 2010
Why doesn't the City put its resources elsewhere. They complain about traffic, then they complain about the Gold Line. The State should extend the 710 and dump it onto Huntington Drive, right up their snooty phony asses.
lakers

Carmel, IN

#4 Nov 5, 2010
just extend the damn freeway either by tunnel or surface. the end results will mean less pollution and traffic for everyone. granted south pas will lose some buildings or homes, but itll be a greater good for the sgv valley. it does however, help alhambra a lot.
YankeeFlasher

United States

#5 Nov 5, 2010
Why doesn't the City put its resources elsewhere.
They complain about traffic, then they complain about the Gold Line.
The State should extend the 710 and dump it onto Huntington Drive,
right up their snooty phony ****.
----------
The City is putting its resources elsewhere - For SoPas and LACity Cities will focus on getting lots of smaller projects started and done...not some $10B project which won't help NOW and won't employ LACounty residents.

Rather than complaining about the traffic and congestion, SoPas is trying to get ramps and signals done NOW.

Oh BTW, putting the 710 stub through to Huntington will have no impact on SoPas -- BUT would really mess up us in El Sereno, LACity and if you think there have been problems with SoPas you haven't seen anything yet...What would happen to Huntington if signals are out of order at 7:45am - already happened once this year....

Why hasn't the 710 been extended even to Mission Rd....Alhambra CC stopped their side of it...they want a larger share of a larger piece ---$600+M and LACity has axed the Schief project for 710>Mission (=NO Surface Construction in LACity, both Mayor and Huizar)..
Get to a meeting and learn something about things before you comment on stuff you can't even get right for the city of SoPas
Too Bad

Los Angeles, CA

#6 Nov 5, 2010
I drive through South Pasadena streets every day to get from the 210 to the 110 and vice versa. They have to deal with a lot of traffic, congestion, and pollution one way or another.
kvl

Duarte, CA

#7 Nov 5, 2010
Any argument by South Pas about exploring other transportation options is just hot air. They were strongly against the Gold Line as well. If South Pas had their way, they would have torn out the tracks for the Gold Line.
Plate of Shrimp

South Pasadena, CA

#8 Nov 5, 2010
kvl wrote:
Any argument by South Pas about exploring other transportation options is just hot air. They were strongly against the Gold Line as well. If South Pas had their way, they would have torn out the tracks for the Gold Line.
That's simply untrue. South Pasadena was instrumental in commissioning a low-build plan in the 1990s - which would deliver most of the purported benefits of the freeway at about 1/10 of the cost. The existence of that plan, and Caltrans' dishonest evaluation of it, was key to the federal court's ruling to stop the freeway in 1999.

South Pasadena didn't oppose the Gold Line -- it favored it. The City only wanted better noise mitigation.

You're wrong. Wrong.
Jimbo Jones

Buena Park, CA

#9 Nov 5, 2010
60 years of impeding the COMPLETION of the 710 freeway to the detriment of the surrounding communities and planned traffic circulation is a crime against the residents of the state. It's time to fire up the bulldozers and head north from Valley Blvd to the vestigial stub in Pasadena. Take out what's in the way as was done when the 210 was out through north Pasadena.
Think of the jobs this would create. The commerce it would enhance. We could have a Freeway to the Sea that would be the envy of other cities.
Enough of whiny South Pas NIMBYs. You can delay progress, but you can't stop it.
A Benefit Assessment Fee can be set for all the residents that have for so long delayed and driven up the cost of this project. It's only fair.
Ima Cave

Mahwah, NJ

#11 Nov 5, 2010
kvl wrote:
Any argument by South Pas about exploring other transportation options is just hot air. They were strongly against the Gold Line as well. If South Pas had their way, they would have torn out the tracks for the Gold Line.
So is that why the South Pasadena City council let the councilman from Azusa occupy their seat on the Gold Line Construction Board? because they didn't want the Gold Line to be successful? or was it to allow the Foothill cities direct input to the construction of a much needed regional transportation through their neighborhoods? so they could represent their residents needs and concerns as construction passes through their town....
Glendora received the the benifit of So Pasadena's effort to maintain local control of regionally controlled and constructed project through neighborhoods... your Glendora city councilperson sits on the Construction board occupying a seat thanks to a deal worked out by key So Pasadena support from its City Council....

so don't just buy the easy hate speak of a few 710 freeway supporters... know the real facts....
DShelley

West Hills, CA

#12 Nov 6, 2010
Why ever happened to the 2 going through to the 101? Ever notice how the "Glendale Freeway" just drops off into nothingness? Pop that baby thru as planned and downtown L.A. commuters will have access to the 210.

As someone who commutes on the 210, I cannot imagine anymore truck traffic being added. Already, with the 210 extension continuing on through to Redlands, there are so many trucks in the right 2 lanes that it is difficult for cars to safely enter and exit the freeway, let alone drive in those lanes.

They should work on developing an extensive rail system to move the freight out of the Harbor to outlying areas on trains so that most of those heavy polluting trucks do not come into the city. Have truckers pick up their loads in Lancaster or San Bernadino and only come in for local deliveries.
MikeTen

Los Angeles, CA

#13 Nov 7, 2010
DShelley wrote:
Why ever happened to the 2 going through to the 101? Ever notice how the "Glendale Freeway" just drops off into nothingness? Pop that baby thru as planned and downtown L.A. commuters will have access to the 210.
As someone who commutes on the 210, I cannot imagine anymore truck traffic being added. Already, with the 210 extension continuing on through to Redlands, there are so many trucks in the right 2 lanes that it is difficult for cars to safely enter and exit the freeway, let alone drive in those lanes.
They should work on developing an extensive rail system to move the freight out of the Harbor to outlying areas on trains so that most of those heavy polluting trucks do not come into the city. Have truckers pick up their loads in Lancaster or San Bernadino and only come in for local deliveries.
DShelly... good questions
yes the completion of the 210 to the 215 and beyond did increase truck traffic up the 210 north toward the 5, but relief is already planned to address this. On the 2008 Regional Transportation Plan(RTP), spearheaded by County Supervisor Mike Antonovich and and myself as previous chair of the Southern California Council of Governments Transportation committee chair ensured that the High Desert Corridor project though off the local map of project didn't get pushed to a proposed, and stayed on plan and funded to completion. This improved corridor runs between the 215 from the 10 through the high desert north of the San Gabriel mountain and eventual connects to the 14 and to the 5 north of Santa Clarita. You can see the beginings of the west end with the triangle connectors being constructed between Santa Clarita and Lancaster. This will allow truck traffic headed north to Bakersfield Fresno and beyond to bypass the San Gabriel Valley and the LA Basin. That goes for south bound traffic from the central valley to the East Bound Rail Yard in San Bernardino. Creating Heavy rail to address short haul (500 miles or less) is very expensive and near impossible due to local city properties that would need to be taken to create the space to create new rail right of ways. If heavy rail money became available, it would be better spent on improving the capacity of existing heavy rail (long haul) corridors headed east and improving the engine fleets with more environmentally cleaner units. Which is already on the planning documents in the RTP for conversion to all electric engines pulling to and from the LA ports, combined with low sulfur diesel conversions happening right now.
As for the 2 fwy ending in Echo Park.... that extension which was on the books in the 50's just like the 710 fwy was stopped also by locals concerned on the damaging effects of construction and pollution from traffic. The Robertti Bill which is usually connected to homes in the path of the 710 fwy in west Pasadena owned by CalTrans was actually created to address homes in the path of the 2 fwy that the state had started purchasing in the path from Echo Park and south. Finishing the 2 freeway south became a political nightmare for local politicians and with Beverly Hills support the 2 completion died. Only the 710 remains as a continued "missing link" transportation planners lament about. You are correct that if the 2 was completed to the 101 Hollywood Fwy and maybe through to the 10 Santa Monica and maybe to the 110 Harbor just north of USC, traffic which now is forced through the center of LA could easily avoid it bypassing to the west. The completion of the 710 would accomplish the same thing on the east side of LA. But since the bulldozing of homes, businesses, dividing of neighborhoods, and of course local government opposition, surface freeway construction is impossible. Maintaining of the status quo of handling increasing traffic on current fwy's and local streets is unacceptable. That's why Tunneling has to be considered. It does'nt solve every problem, but not to fully examine it is a failure to our children.
freeway tunnel deadly

United States

#14 Nov 7, 2010
Pedro wrote:
Why doesn't the City put its resources elsewhere. They complain about traffic, then they complain about the Gold Line. The State should extend the 710 and dump it onto Huntington Drive, right up their snooty phony ****.
Is you name actually Nat Read?- You sound a lot like the WELL paid lobbyist who likes to pretend his name is Pedro etc and call us residents in El Sereno and S Pasadena "snooty" for not wanting our air polluted by cargo trucks. The people who are fighting this freeway are not wealthy and white. Your confusing El Sereno, S Pasadena and NE LA for San Marino. San Marino doesn't have to fight a freeway because they are the Beverly hills of the east.
- PS when trying to fake other identities don't use an old timers term such as "snooty". And the race card wont work because we who are fighting this injustice come in all colors.
DShelley

West Hills, CA

#15 Nov 7, 2010
MikeTen wrote:
<quoted text>
DShelly... good questions
yes the completion of the 210 to the 215 and beyond did increase truck traffic up the 210 north toward the 5, but relief is already planned to address this.
Actually the traffic I was referring to was the traffic thru Pasadena and heading out towards the 57 and 15. The 710 extension would create utter gridlock of truck traffic. I can't imagine being able to budge in Pasadena with one more freeway dumping off here. We already have the 134 and 210. Enough!!
I am a little puzzled at to why, as a resident of Pasadena for the past 30 years, I've watched our former train corridor sold off and converted. Many parts are just a few blocks from my house and it seems like every year a former corridor turns into the back of a lumber yard or just sits and rots. Why doesn't the government hang onto the right of ways.
The next thing we should get to work on is creating laws to limit truck traffic during certain hours of the day and allowing all traffic into the car pool lanes on the weekend and during non-rush-hour traffic.
WOW

United States

#16 Nov 8, 2010
Freeway Tunnel Deadly? Is this person for real? This type of construction is done all over the world. Luddite bleating is no reason not to consider this solution.

It is proposed that the 710 Tunnel would be financed by investors and paid for with tolls, creating thousands of jobs. The 910 Tunnel would relieve cut through traffic and reduce air pollution from the stop and go traffic clogging our local streets.

The hard core loony frigne 710 opponents can not even vote off those they consider "disloyal" on the South Pasadena City Council who support looking at this alternative. A few politicians still pander to this fringe with anti tunnel ignorance, but many others are tired of this whining minority, and would like to see if this compromise can work.

This "Tunnel" fear mongering is truly pathethic and desperate luddite thinking by those who are unwilling even to study this sensible alternative.

“Fly low and avoid the penguins”

Since: Dec 09

Pasadena

#17 Nov 8, 2010
WOW wrote:
The 910 Tunnel would relieve cut through traffic and reduce air pollution from the stop and go traffic clogging our local streets.
Sorry, babe, but the huge increase of truck traffic would negate any possible benefit. Seriously: Have you traveled the 210 in the Pasadena to Duarte stretch lately? And this is without the trucking corridor.
WOW

United States

#18 Nov 9, 2010
Oh that's right spoiled luddites like you don't go to the market and buy anyhting trucks deliver? You walk around with your donkey cart and pick up things to eat? How artistic of you? This is just the usual hypocritical luddite twaddle from another spoiled job killing West Pasadena elitist?

This "evil trucks" will come type of fearmongering is typical of the opposition. Since no decisions on allowing trucks through the tunnel has yet been made, or even studied, it is just plain fearmongering? Fact: Trucks are often not permitted in long tunnels, and hazardous trucks are banned in most of California's long highway/freeway tunnels.

The Joseph Goebbel's school of the big lie and spreading fear is one of the few tactical argements these job killing elitist luddites have left against 710 tunnel alternative. These folks are so bereft of logical arguments, that they are afraid to even study the alternative, and resort to mindless fears to rally the increasingly shrill shrinking minority who oppose even studying this option.

“Fly low and avoid the penguins”

Since: Dec 09

Pasadena

#19 Nov 9, 2010
WOW wrote:
This "evil trucks" will come type of fearmongering is typical of the opposition. Since no decisions on allowing trucks through the tunnel has yet been made, or even studied, it is just plain fearmongering? Fact: Trucks are often not permitted in long tunnels, and hazardous trucks are banned in most of California's long highway/freeway tunnels.
You really should read CalTrans own documents which state that the purpose of this tunnel is to connect the trucking routes, but in your self-delusional world, I guess that wouldn't be the case.

Personally, I don't mind the occasional truck running through my town to deliver groceries, or restock the supply of Hondas or Volkswagons, maybe deliver some Stickley repros, but you must be some sort of tard to think that having every single truck delivering chinese crap into the central valley running up and down the 710/210 is a good idea.

And I take offence that you think I run around next to some sort of donkey cart. I leave that job up to the servants. We travel by landau!
WOW is a TOOL

Los Angeles, CA

#20 Nov 9, 2010
Got one of them "word a day" calendars, eh Wow?

“Fly low and avoid the penguins”

Since: Dec 09

Pasadena

#21 Nov 9, 2010
Especially to wow,

Here's that report you keep ignoring:
http://www.scag.ca.gov/rtp2008/pdfs/finalrtp/...

Please see section 2.7, especially the second paragraph: "Due to the importance of truck traffic on the SR-710 and to provide another east-bound connection for freight, it is critical to allow truck traffic in the tunnel."

Hmmm....I wonder who really is telling the "big lie".......

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