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#6258
Dec 30, 2012
 

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obama vomit wrote:
<quoted text>
I take one look at your post and I know it's the hillbilly fraud, call me on your obama phone, fruitcake.
A "hillbilly fraud"? Is that even a thing?

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#6259
Dec 31, 2012
 

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De Opresssor Liber wrote:
<quoted text>
A "hillbilly fraud"? Is that even a thing?
Look in the mirror, thats' what a hillbilly fraud looks like, you are a worthless troll shilling for the democratic propaganda machine, with lies and fraud. You are not who you pretend to be, and everyone knows it, fool.

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#6260
Dec 31, 2012
 

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To

Gramp

Mass Shootings under Obama are increasing.

Dec 14, 2012......sandy hook

Dec. 11, 2012: Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, opens fire in a shopping mall in suburban Portland, Ore., shooting numerous rounds from a semiautomatic rifle, ultimately killing two people and seriously injuring another

Aug. 5, 2012: Army veteran Wade Michael Page kills five men and one woman and wounds three other people, including a police officer, before taking his own life at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin outside Milwaukee

July 20, 2012: Twelve people are killed when a gunman enters an Aurora, Colo., movie theater

Jan. 8, 2011: A gunman kills six people and wounds 13 others, including then-U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, in a shooting spree outside a grocery store in Tucson, Ar

Nov. 5, 2009: Thirteen soldiers and civilians were killed and more than two dozen wounded when a gunman walked into the Soldier Readiness Processing Center at Fort Hood, Texas, and opened fire

April 3, 2009: A 41-year-old man opened fire at an immigrant community center in Binghamton, N.Y.

March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people — including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff’s deputy

before Obama took office we had:

April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, 23, kills 32 people and himself on the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va.

April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas,

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#6261
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Comparing gun murders in the 7 most populous states: CA, NY and IL (gun control) vs. TX, FL, PA and OH (gun friendly).(self.politics)

I'm going to review two statistics:

Per capita gun murder rates
Gun murder rates per gun owner.

The first one is straightforward and obvious. The second, perhaps not so much.

Why compare the number of gun murders to the number of gun owners?

The hypothesis of gun control philosophy is that restricting access to guns and reducing the amount in circulation will reduce associated crime.
If less guns and gun owners were correlated to lower crime and murder rates, this statistic would surely agree.

Why these 7 states? They're the most populous states in the union, and divided between "gun control" and "gun friendly", the sample size of each group is approximately the same.

The first three states I listed are the 1st (CA), 3rd (NY) and 5th (IL) largest states in terms of population. They represent 69.5 million of the 308 million people in the US (2010 census). That's 22.6% of the population of the country. Their gun control schemes are the strongest in the nation (Brady Campaign state law scorecard).

Source: FBI data

Firearm murders per 100k:

National: 2.75
New York: 4.12
Illinois: 2.93

California: 3.25

Total firearm murders in those states: 2,042

Total firearm murder in the US: 8,583

Percentage of total US firearm murders in CA, NY and IL: 23.8%

Total population represented by those 3 states: 22.6%.

Difference: 1.2%

Despite being stringent on guns, those states still contribute a higher percentage of firearm murders to the total compared to their population.

Now let's look at the 2nd (TX), 4th (FL), 6th (PA) and 7th (OH) most populous states. They represent 68.18 million of the 308 million in the US. Their gun control ranges from "wild west" to lenient (Brady Campaign state law scorecard).

Firearm murders per 100k:

National: 2.75
Florida: 3.6 (had to use this source (PDF warning)
Texas: 2.91
Pennsylvania: 3.97

Ohio: 3.54

Total firearm murders in those states: 2,204

Total firearm murder in the US: 8,583

Percentage of total US firearm murders in TX and FL: 25.7%

Total population represented by those 4 states (45 million): 22.1%

Difference 3.6%

Notable differences:

There is a 2.4% difference between gun control states in very populated states in terms of gun murders with more murders in gun-friendly states.
Texas has the most friendly gun laws of the top 7 most populous states. It also has the highest gun ownership rate (citation). It also has the lowest per capita firearm murder rate of all 7 states.
New York has the highest firearm murder rate of the top 7 most populous states (influenced heavily by NYC's rate despite its stringent gun control).

All in all, I see this as a mixed bag. On its face, the contention that gun control correlates with lower gun murders is undeniable when comparing these states in this way. However, when one compares them on an individual basis, albeit cherry-picked (Texas vs. NY or CA), the correlation inverts.

My conclusion: We've neither proven nor disproven the efficacy of gun control. It's far more complicated than a single statistic, and this one has points for and against.

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#6262
Dec 31, 2012
 

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The other way I'm going look at this is to compare gun deaths to number of gun owners.

To do this, I've calculated the approximate number of gun owners based upon the self-reported percentages in this study from 2001 and the 2010 census numbers. While I would've liked to have used newer data, I couldn't find anything this reliable that was more recent.

Keep in mind this survey did not ask about legality and was very broad about where guns might be in order to generate as many positive answer as possible. I think this helps accuracy. While I'd prefer more recent numbers, it's unlikely they've changed drastically enough to alter the outcome.

CA: 21.3%(7.9 million)
NY: 18.0%(3.5 million)

IL: 20.2%(2.6 million)

Total gun owners in those 3 states: 14 million.

TX: 35.9%(9 million)

FL: 24.5%(4.6 million)

PA: 34.7%(4.4 million)

OH: 32.4%(3.7 million)

Total gun owners in these 4 states: 21.7 million.

So despite having a slightly smaller population, the gun friendly states have over 50% more gun owners than the gun control states.

Let's express this statistic in number of gun murders per gun owner.

Gun control states: 14.58 murders per every 100k gun owners
Gun friendly states: 10.15 murders per every 100k gun owners.

Results:

Gun friendly states have 50% more gun owners than gun control states.
Gun friendly states have over 40% fewer gun murders per gun owner than gun control states.
Despite having a huge margin in gun ownership, gun friendly states only have a slightly larger number of per capita gun murders relative to their population representation.

Here we have an unequivocal statistic. More guns, more gun owners, lower rate of murder per gun owner, and by a very, very wide margin.

Bonus look: Washington State

Washington has some of the most permissive gun laws in the US. It allows every kind of gun and configuration with the exception of Class 3 (full auto) and short-barreled rifles.

Highlights of its laws include:

State level control over gun laws with no municipal control
No background checks on private party sales ("gun show loophole")
No ban on "assault weapons" nor any features of such weapons.
No ban on high capacity magazines.
No registration of guns or owners (only county level records of pistol transactions at dealers).
No waiting period for long guns.
No waiting period for hand guns if the buyer has a concealed pistol license.
Concealed pistol licenses issued on a "shall issue" basis with requirements no stronger than federal disqualifiers.
Concealed pistol licenses require a $55 payment, fingerprints and background check and no training whatsoever.

All in all, Washington on paper is a gun control advocate's worst nightmare. Let's look at the data:

Total gun murders: 79
Gun murder rate per 100k: 1.25
National gun murder rate per 100k: 2.75

Despite extremely lenient gun laws, WA not only isn't filled with bloody streets, it's one of the safest states in the nation. Its murder rate is half that of the national average, and of those murders, less than half are committed with guns (less than any of the top 7 states).

One interesting note: WA's constitution makes education the top priority of the state.

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#6263
Dec 31, 2012
 

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De Opresssor Liber wrote:
<quoted text>
By "under way", I mean "not happening...ever".
For those that are falling for the hysteria gun laws:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and
From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
Unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated
in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
----------
You won't see this data on the US evening news,
or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property
and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control,
please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun - control message to all of your friends.
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield,
and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain.
All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED
CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

The United States was brought to its knees by a handful of dedicated criminals USING ONLY ....A FEW BOX CUTTERS!

The two states that have liberal gun permits also have the lowest crime. Think the bad guys knowing that someone behind the door is armed may have something to do with that?

Do a search on Washington State, North Dakota, and Vermont
Reality Check

Hicksville, NY

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#6264
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Bruser your brain is too tense, that's 2/10" the size of normal.

Since: Jul 12

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#6265
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Bruser wrote:
<quoted text>
For those that are falling for the hysteria gun laws:
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and
From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
Unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated
in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
----------
You won't see this data on the US evening news,
or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property
and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control,
please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun - control message to all of your friends.
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield,
and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain.
All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED
CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
The United States was brought to its knees by a handful of dedicated criminals USING ONLY ....A FEW BOX CUTTERS!
The two states that have liberal gun permits also have the lowest crime. Think the bad guys knowing that someone behind the door is armed may have something to do with that?
Do a search on Washington State, North Dakota, and Vermont
Understand that you are responding to the liberal skunk imposter, not to me. I, believe the disarming of America is under way by the obama administraion that was elected by uninformed fools.

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#6266
Dec 31, 2012
 

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"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
--Thomas Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

"You own a business...You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen...."

barack hussein obama



swxxxt

Rochester, PA

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#6267
Jan 1, 2013
 

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youtube.com/watch...
I dunno?
Wloclawek Warrior

Petersburg, VA

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#6268
Jan 1, 2013
 

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a good 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip sawed off to 18.5 inches and with the old Volkswagen muffler screwed on the end, a perfect match for the perfect offender. No having to sit in prison for the clown for life, nice and quiet, looks good, works well

Since: Dec 12

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#6269
Jan 1, 2013
 

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De Oppresso Liber wrote:
"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government
results from too much government."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
--Thomas Jefferson
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
"You own a business...You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen...."
barack hussein obama
Sorry folks, I forgot to mention that I'm a rambling fruitcake.

The truth is, I really admire Obama, I mean, he's managed to save the automakers and get the economy back on track, despite the whack-jobs in the Tea Party. You have to give him that.

Since: Dec 12

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#6270
Jan 1, 2013
 

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De Oppresso Liber wrote:
<quoted text>
Understand that you are responding to the liberal skunk imposter, not to me. I, believe the disarming of America is under way by the obama administraion that was elected by uninformed fools.
Of course, I realize that my "disarming of America" comments sound crazy, especially since nobody on either side of the aisle has said that they support such action, even if it was possible.

Yep...I'm a paranoid idiot. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go test my own urine for arsenic.

Since: Dec 12

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#6271
Jan 1, 2013
 

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Wloclawek Warrior wrote:
a good 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip sawed off to 18.5 inches and with the old Volkswagen muffler screwed on the end, a perfect match for the perfect offender. No having to sit in prison for the clown for life, nice and quiet, looks good, works well
We get it, you're compensating for a small wiener.

Since: Dec 12

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#6272
Jan 1, 2013
 

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Bruser wrote:
<quoted text>
For those that are falling for the hysteria gun laws:
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and
From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
Unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people,
Unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
----------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated
in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
----------
You won't see this data on the US evening news,
or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property
and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control,
please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun - control message to all of your friends.
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield,
and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain.
All else is supplemental.
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED
CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!
DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
The United States was brought to its knees by a handful of dedicated criminals USING ONLY ....A FEW BOX CUTTERS!
The two states that have liberal gun permits also have the lowest crime. Think the bad guys knowing that someone behind the door is armed may have something to do with that?
Do a search on Washington State, North Dakota, and Vermont
You need to get laid.

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#6273
Jan 1, 2013
 

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"Corporations are people, my friend ... of course they are..." —Mitt Romney

Since: Dec 12

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#6274
Jan 1, 2013
 

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"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love."

–Mitt Romney (January 2012)
TrollBot

Mclean, VA

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#6275
Jan 1, 2013
 

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Scumbag Imposter Troll wrote:
(Inane, boring, and childish troll snipped)
Troll. Ignored.

Since: Dec 12

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#6276
Jan 1, 2013
 

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The idea that I own guns because my wiener is small is ridiculous!

First of all, women don't care about the size of a dude's wiener, and that's just a straight up fact, my friends, so a guy with a small package is no less masculine than a guy with a normal unit. Plus, I'd rather have a teeny-weenie, because it's a lot more comfortable when I'm wearing tight jeans.

Sure, when I wear a gun or talk about guns or even see a picture of one, my balls start tingling and I get a stiffy; but that's perfectly normal, I assure you. And yes, it's true that cannot get or maintain a full erection unless I'm strapped, but again, this is very common.

I'm a normal man, damnit.
TrollBot

Mclean, VA

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#6277
Jan 1, 2013
 

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Scumbag Troll Imposter wrote:
(Childishly inane troll snipped)
Troll. Ignored.

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