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Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#666
May 5, 2013
 

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So TBSC asks these folks to go somewhere else. Its seems to me what is unfair is that there is Zero working compassionate mental health treatment of any kind here. The answers will never be to chase people around but to find housing and treatment programs that work.

I cant think of any City that doesn't have someone asking for change at the intersection.

TBSC will take back nothing. Societies problems need to be seen. Cleaning up after people or asking them to take their drug use elsewhere ultimately achieves nothing.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#667
May 5, 2013
 

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These are legitimate questions.

Reached by phone, Steve says he hasn't been on a TBSC clean-up, but may attend the 1-21 "positive loitering" event.

He also invites TBSC volunteers to join the Save Our Shores clean-up on 1-28 along the San Lorenzo River. SOS will be happy to show volunteers their procedures for avoiding destruction of homeless survival gear. Are you--whoever you are--or any other TBSC volunteer interested in doing that?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Steve says he has heard directly from homeless people and from other SOS volunteers that homeless property has been destroyed in the wake of TBSC clean-up's. However--full disclosure--I got no specifics.

Frankly, I have heard more reports recently of police destroying homeless gear than TBSC volunteers (but then police do so regularly and are paid to patrol). I have heard reports of gear being taken by TBSC in past clean-up's, but nothing specific.

The issue is really whether TBSC, whatever the case in the past, is willing to commit itself to not do this in the future. Cube and the other leaders need to make statements about this, which so far, as I can see, they have refused or failed to make.

It has taken a year of asking questions of TBSC to get any answers whatsoever.

Does TBSC specifically advise its clean-up volunteers NOT to take usable homeless tents and gear? As SOS reportedly does? If so, will it change its policy? If not, will it advise its volunteers (as SOS reportedly does) to takes especial care in future clean-up's to respect the rights of those outside?
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#668
May 5, 2013
 

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Every septic tank in the San Lorenzo valley flushes into the river during the rainy season because there's not a damn square foot of land in the SC mountains with adequate drainage (at least after a year or two of use).

Surfers and swimmers have to beware and warnings are posted on public beaches near the river mouth

Yet the county and city allow the building of McMansions wherever their imported gentry (who make their money elsewhere and don't spend it downtown because there's nothing anyone needs...) like.

Scapegoat THEIR environmental destruction.

Their lifestyle does INCREDIBLE DAMAGE to the environment, and most of the people pictured in the video, despite their medical and psychological problems, don't even use a light bulb, no less the massive amount of COAL GENERATED electricity these energy wasting (despite the 'green' label they are no such thing) architectural monstrosities use.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#669
May 5, 2013
 

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The homeless are NOT a part of the problem they are a symptom...

...of a city that developed an untenable socio-economic nightmare in the name of the almighty maximization of profit margins and property values.

From a "Downtown with shopping" and a community that lived and worked there to "Downtown Shopping Mall" with massive police and security apparatus presence as replacement for community-with-a-stake" in 20+- year

NAH... NOTHING FUCKED UP was gonna happen.

Right.

Too too bad it spilled over to the rest of Santa Cruz but I'm NOT crying.

Add to that mix a large cohort of transplanted umn...'residents' who, due to their... umn...'culture' have lived their lives in socioeconomically homogeneous umn...'communities'. ie. Vanilla suburbs with a social life revolving around behavior controlled shopping malls, and you have people who are naturally fearful and REACTIVE, and TBSC panders to that reaction, fear-mongering on everyone from anarchists to junkies to homeless to street kids to musicians who are out of tune to...

Well, Fascists MUST HAVE scapegoats...

...and the fearful will follow.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#670
May 5, 2013
 

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"Does TBSC destroy homeless gear, or do they specifically advise their volunteers to take care not to do so?"

SOS does, I'm told. Unless TBSC leaders and volunteers acknowledge they get the same advice or instruction, it's reasonable to believe they don't.

Was the anonymous poster apparently given any such instructions in his/her clean-up's? We don't know.

The issue is not me (which "I Have" wishes to make it), but TBSC and its policies. If it has a policy, then presumably its volunteers would know it too.

Sounds like "I Have" is ducking this issue. The Cubes know I have asked this question before. I suggest you e-mail them for their "administrative" response. "Are specific instructions made to avoid taking or destroying usable gear at homeless encampments?"

Another question for "I Have" and his fellow camp removers, have they ever seen any such gear left behind in the "clean-up"s?

And what actually does "I have" have anyway? Except lots of ways of avoiding the question asked in the first place.

For all you Latin scholars, seems like another case of Ignoratio Elenchi (ignoring the issue by raising other concerns and facts). That's the kind of argument being made here.
Buzz

Alviso, CA

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#671
May 5, 2013
 

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Sum Dim wrote:
"Does TBSC destroy homeless gear, or do they specifically advise their volunteers to take care not to do so?"
SOS does, I'm told. Unless TBSC leaders and volunteers acknowledge they get the same advice or instruction, it's reasonable to believe they don't.
Was the anonymous poster apparently given any such instructions in his/her clean-up's? We don't know.
The issue is not me (which "I Have" wishes to make it), but TBSC and its policies. If it has a policy, then presumably its volunteers would know it too.
Sounds like "I Have" is ducking this issue. The Cubes know I have asked this question before. I suggest you e-mail them for their "administrative" response. "Are specific instructions made to avoid taking or destroying usable gear at homeless encampments?"
Another question for "I Have" and his fellow camp removers, have they ever seen any such gear left behind in the "clean-up"s?
And what actually does "I have" have anyway? Except lots of ways of avoiding the question asked in the first place.
For all you Latin scholars, seems like another case of Ignoratio Elenchi (ignoring the issue by raising other concerns and facts). That's the kind of argument being made here.
Too ashamed to post under your real name ColbyLoon? You sure love to hijack the names of your superiors.
This was deleted too

Citrus Heights, CA

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#672
May 5, 2013
 
I see some comments have been deleted. This is unfortunate. Nevertheless, I shall persevere in trying to use this forum to communicate on this issue.
Dr. Colby, I'm sure you're aware of the fact that CTV is losing most of its funding, owing in no small part to the fact that poorly conceived programming such as Club Cruz and other questionable discussion-format shows, some with audiences in the single digits, have caused irreparable damage to its brand in the eyes of Santa Cruzans.
That said, I think Indybay serves as a fantastic place for public discussion. I know I get a lot of my information right here, and I'm always careful to see what the position of this community is on matters of the day, before I weigh in on policy decisions at the City. So, I'm happy to discuss this matter with you right here.
Don

“Facile Largire de Alieno”

Since: Sep 12

Scotts Valley

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#673
May 5, 2013
 
Over 30 straight posts to yourself as Sum Dim shows that you, John Colby, really are dumber than a box of rocks and a pathetic little weenie!
craig

Foster City, CA

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#674
May 5, 2013
 

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The Original Buzz wrote:
Over 30 straight posts to yourself as Sum Dim shows that you, John Colby, really are dumber than a box of rocks and a pathetic little weenie!
I like Sum Dim. I think she challenges the status quo. Are you suggesting she should be censored here?
Buzz

United States

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#675
May 5, 2013
 

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craig wrote:
<quoted text>
I like Sum Dim. I think she challenges the status quo. Are you suggesting she should be censored here?


Decided to change your name to Craig now, loser John Colby. Don't you ever get tired of posting the same old drivel while stoned and stupid?
DBS

Sunnyvale, CA

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#676
May 5, 2013
 
craig wrote:
<quoted text>
I like Sum Dim. I think she challenges the status quo. Are you suggesting she should be censored here?
How's the job search going "craig"??

Any prospects?

Or are you too busy "Dusting" the Mayor?

BWAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#677
May 5, 2013
 
okay. everyone breathe. round 5 in this epic battle of bullshit commentary is coming up after these commercial messages....

"Looking for a close but affordable getaway for the weekend? Visit Santa Cruz! Spend the day soaking up the sun and sea at one of our many bro n' babe beaches!

Spend spend spend your hard earned cash downtown on necessities like gourmet doggie biscuits and $15 taco plates!

Enjoy our delightfully colorful cultural mix of provincial blue-collar East-siders, propertied liberal green-capitalist West-siders, and poor street performers, college graduates majoring in philosophy, heroin users, and part-time anarchists.

fine print: No smoking, no shoes, no service, some restrictions may apply, for quality assurance, your face may be monitored while visiting SC, see the Police Department or the Chamber of Commerce for details. Commerce is king, long live commerce!"

...
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#678
May 5, 2013
 
Personally, I don't think "positive loitering" is the most reactionary activity TBSC can engage in even while clearly, TBSC is a very reactionary group.

TBSC seems to be primarily concerned with individual behavior, specifically behavior usually associated with the underclass of a capitalist society. True, much of the behavior that they get their panties in a bunch over revolves around personal safety but just as much of it also revolves around preserving their perceived (i.e. law enforced) "rights" to commerce and property. Anarchists like me, loosely fall into this category of errant people, though I don't believe we are their primary target. This is to say, the A symbol in their propaganda video was probably thrown in to scare people and make them associate homeless drug addicts with anarchy, even though the situation is much more complex.

TBSC's very name implies that the underclass of visibly unemployed and less visible radical people have taken over and that "real" Santa Cruz peeps must "take it back." In a sense, TBSC is a liberal version of the Tea Party - the former promotes "positive loitering" by claiming public space that they usually would avoid while the latter promotes broader issues about freedom and democracy while packing semi-automatic weapons. Both are quasi-populist in rhetoric, police-friendly, indignant, and a tad hysterical.

I used to live by Grant St Park and yes, the area has its seedy moments. But to me, this is as much an symptom of the geography of the area as it is of class inequity. Even the casual observer can see how Ocean St serves as a gateway to the bigger (i.e. more important) enterprises of Santa Cruz - the Boardwalk and downtown. Ferrell's donuts, Mickie Deez, Denny's, and cheap hotels have never suggested classy areas - Ask yourself this, do the propertied classes that make up the bulwark of TBSC spend a lot of time there? Of course not.

The question I'd like to ask TBSC folks is, where exactly were you when the GAP, Borders, Urban Outfitters, American Apparel, or any of the big corporate chains were moving into town? Where were you when the proposed town plaza was shot down? Where were you when a living wage proposal was put on the ballot? Where were you when the SC police department teamed up w/ Homeland Security to streamline deporting or indefinitely detaining undocumented immigrants?

Yes, I know your organization didn't exist then, but what does it say about you and your values? Within the last 15 years, a progressive agenda with en eye towards economic justice has pretty much been abandoned in favor of a "police and commerce come first" model, as epitomized by mayor Ryan Coonerty. Our hollowed out shell of a "local newspaper" works hand in glove to sensationalize almost every police report, thereby increasing the general paranoia, causing people to avoid going out, and thereby only eliminating the "public" in public safety.

Marinate on that TBSC while you "loiter" this Friday.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#679
May 5, 2013
 
I'm Auntie Imperial, and I approve of this message

On a sad note, someone we might have found in the neighborhood passed recently due to complications from Diabetes.

You most likely have seen Chris if you ever ventured downtown. Word had it he was US Army Special Forces at one time. and later, one of the Methamphetamine addicts that TBSC would most likely seek to semantically and socio-politically demonize, NOT assist medically or psychologically.

Chris had lived in Santa Cruz for about 15 years.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#680
May 5, 2013
 
No... "kind of like scapegoating..."

Personally I like to keep a close eye on the local Fascist News Network... especially the programming that occasionally rears it's PR skank-infested head claiming "good works by good citizens" (Showing the true nature of the 'good citizen' trope, scapegoating the Jews and Roma... taking their jobs and housing while shipping them off to slave labor camps, were 'good works' according to all the "Good Germans" of the 30s.) while, in reality, doing nothing for anyone but them and theirs.

The people I KNOW that follow this group, TBSC (albeit the people I know vaguely 'follow') are typically and utterly apolitical. They only got 'involved' because the city's social, jobs, and housing policies have adversely affected their neighborhoods with 'sociological wreckage' to be victimized.

One of them, a woman who lives on Lower Ocean street, used to work at that 'whorehouse-of-a-bar'(Note the quotes moderator...) called "The Catalyst" and complained about the hookers on her street... But not the ones she served while at work.

That's typical of the social consciousness and analytic ability of most of TBSC's followers.

But NOT the leaders... They HAVE their agenda... and it's NOT in their 'About', because the agenda is intrinsically the same as the DTA and they don't want their true believing followers to know lest the PR 'spell' be broken.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#681
May 5, 2013
 
Yer a real cohort of one... Congatulations!

THIS statement:

"I didn't see the proliferation of gangs then, local or international. Or heroin abuse. Or murders. Or methheads. Or what seems weekly stabbings and armed robberies in the downtown areas. Did they exist? Yes. Were they at this level? No."

...is absolute nonsense... although with the advent of the Downtown SHOPPING MALL and all the laws, destruction of housing for workers and their jobs, that forced the more creative, less 'incomed' people out of town, you CAN NOTICE the 'problem children' alot more.

But, unlike what the city hoped for by drving those socially helpful and creative elements away, the addicts, who BY DEFINITION are utter socially conservatives, wanting NOTHING to change in their day-to-day routine and stayed, and WILL ALWAYS BE WITH YOU NOW DESPITE ANY LAW YOU MAY MAKE OR SOCIAL HARASSMENT YOU MIGHT CARE TO APPLY.

[Bwah hahahah!]

In other words, the city's policies and laws exacerbated an already existent situation.

They don't care.

It give closet Fascists like TBSC and the DTA more visible scapegoats, that unlike street performers or 'hippie' travelers are QUITE EASY to scapegoat

But, again, the city CREATED that situation.

It happens EVERYWHERE forced gentrification takes place.

And use the word "progressive" in context if you please... "progressive economics".

That means "progressively" more profits, at the existing community's expense.

They have NEVER exhibited any tendency towards 'progressive' social policies.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#682
May 5, 2013
 
No assurance yet from TBSC leaders that they advise their troops to take care not to destroy homeless property.

Lots of personal anonymous insults.

Hopefully the debate may encourage TBSCers to adopt SOS policies explicitly, if they haven't already and to let the community know they have. Even then, the true test will be what they do and the kind of rhetoric they use.

I find the analysis of the TBSC critics persuasive and interesting. And the responses by TBSC supporters, however sincere and passionate, seems vitriolic and naïve. Not to mention focused on discrediting me rather than addressing the issue.

If anyone has any reports from this Friday's “intimidate the street people”“positive loitering” event, please post them.

Perhaps during the next clean-up, the TBSC defenders can take some video of homeless campsites left undisturbed. You know, those 'illegal campsites" that TBSC so loudly bemoans.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#683
May 5, 2013
 
It's no secret some of TBSC members are of the " Bum Hate" crowd and others that are not. But what disturbs me is, there are camps active at the cemetery. If you cleaned there and did not see any " Active Camps" and did not skip one spot, you destroyed some active camps.

People who are surviving for the most part leave their camp all day. They leave things of as little of value as possible. This is living in the streets 101. It marks your spot but you don't have to panic if things are riffled through etc. Its great to do clean up work. You do need some rules, and like SOS, whom I have volunteered , they have very clear rules. These rules should be known by all who do cleanup work. I do not think TBSC has these rules. I don't think they care much. And who is TBSC? Since nobody actively seems to answer public questions asked of TBSC and members do not seem to know anything, I have to assume whomever puts together the flyers has a larger agenda than the average TBSC tool, ahem, I mean Member.

I have seen other TBSC flyers that ask people to call the cops on everything a homeless person does. Spare changing, call the cops, sitting on the side walk, call the cops, smoking, call the cops. Playing a drum, call the cops, etc. etc. That alone told me where they are on issues surrounding` homelessness. Many of the things on that flyer were not even illegal under the many SC laws used for such things.

Cleanups are wonderful if done right and there is PLENTY to clean without getting directly into active homeless camps. TBSC seems to only clean such areas known for being places where the homeless live, with little regard or care about their lives. This also gives me pause and suspicion of of their motives.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#684
May 5, 2013
 

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Sorry 'A'. Although I used to hang with him occasionally, since his slide into Meth abuse I didn't spend much time around him (or should I say 'he had other things to do').

You see, unlike the uneducated hate-mongering that "I have" spewed: "Who will you be? The one shooting up" http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/01/14/1... I'm not exactly a drug user, no less a methhead, and they're sort of paranoid and fussy about who they hang out with.. usually other meth users.

Regarding "I Have's" quip that:(I) deny the fact that gang influence from Salinas has migrated up here. You ignore the fact that South American gangs have moved in to control the heroin trade and profit from it.

Absolutely NOT.

The same rules apply. I was driving taxi in Watsonville as the housing there got pricier in the wake of the computer boom and NAFTA driven packing house shut-downs and ya know... The Chicano community was leaving en masse for places like Salinas and points elsewhere where the rents were more affordable.

But like the economic wreckage of Downtown Santa Cruz, crime increases when community DIES.

...and: "...the economic near-collapse of our nation and most of the planet and the subsequent poverty, lowered incomes, and unemployment that have resulted."

has meant that the Chicano workers have now fled to their countries of origin (reverse emigration) but AMERICANS LIKE THEIR DRUGS, so the drug gangs stay, but those gangs have near nothing to do with WHY that Junkie on the street corner is what he/she is.

But THIS "...the economic near-collapse of our nation and most of the planet and the subsequent poverty, lowered incomes, and unemployment that have resulted." has A LOT to do with why drug users use...

..SO, back to the lack of jobs, and housing one can afford with those jobs.

You know... alleviating what "I Have" is complaining about... instead of scapegoating the victims.
Sum Dim

Foster City, CA

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#685
May 5, 2013
 

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Having recently had a two month stay on the streets of Santa Cruz, I can definitively state that whatever it is you anonymous folks are mad about, is purely fictional contrivement of your delusional minds. I have seen the ugly side of the city, it is mostly within the people who have houses and "work" for a living. Those who struggle from day to day to find their meager food and shelter have a beauty and love and community that cares for each other. Everyone who hoards their possessions in a box with a lock and security services unfailingly allow their possessions to rule their lives.
There are so many people in SC that truly have given up on themselves. The burgeoning homeless community migrates to and from SC because it's a spectacularly beautiful area, full of magic and light and love. The people who want to claim proprietary rights over the sidewalks and street corners are simply afraid of the duality of life. If you have people with homes, you invariably have people without homes. If there are people with jobs, then there will undoubtably be people without jobs. And for every citizen without an obvious drug habit, there are three or more with one.
(notice I said "obvious" -- most "straights" take more drugs on average but fail to recognize these substances as drugs due to lack of regulation)
The anarchist symbol spraypainted on that tree was not done by a true anarchist. The propaganda against the anarchist movement is driven by the fear that people will suddenly become animals if there is no governmental policies in place. I learned a lot from the streets of Santa Cruz. Mostly I learned what a society driven by fear can do to a community governed by love and mutual respect. To claim that one among us has an agenda that isn't heading for the same mutually beneficial outcome is ridiculous.(unless you're implying the gentrification turn to genocide) It'd be a strange and difficult world if the rich were to eradicate the poor.
Who would clean your houses?
Who would wash your cars?
Who would run your drive-thru windows?
Who would teach your children?
Who would do these things, except those who have ALWAYS had to struggle and ALWAYS needed more?
Most importantly, who I ask, WHO would police your streets?
Your lack of trust and distaste for change will be your own ruin. You've brought it on yourselves and the end is on its way for your delineated view of a beautiful and wonderfully diverse world culture we live in today.

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