Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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Nephilim

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#112158
Sep 1, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
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I understand your view just disagree with it... If Man kicks woman in belly and can be charged with Homicide then the Human Being in her belly is just that a Human Being... And All Human Beings have a Constitutional Right to Life... And the Homicide of Any Human being is My business...
I have heard all the rationalizations ever given for a womans right to choose... But I stand by my view that one anyone is given the standing of Human Being they also gain the constitutional protections of a Human being...
A fetus is or is not a Human Being... Once it is given standing as a Human Being then Homicide of it should be individual justified in a court of law...
Wouldn't that be kind of be like saying sex should be illegal because it's the same thing as rape and the only difference between sex and rape is the woman giving permission? If a guy kicks a pregnant woman and she was going to keep the baby then yeah, he should be charged. If the woman was on her way to the abortion clinic and told the judge that, then the guy probably wouldn't be charged with murder.

You mentioned mothers killing their 12 year olds but on the other side, are we going to try and make it illegal to masturbate since sperm is a potential life? Both sides of that reasoning just seems way out in left field to me.

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The whole point of the issue..
not the best idea to invite people for a funeral to your home and point your guns at them when they come to the door..

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#112160
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Quantummist wrote:
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I understand your view just disagree with it... If Man kicks woman in belly and can be charged with Homicide then the Human Being in her belly is just that a Human Being... And All Human Beings have a Constitutional Right to Life... And the Homicide of Any Human being is My business...
I have heard all the rationalizations ever given for a womans right to choose... But I stand by my view that one anyone is given the standing of Human Being they also gain the constitutional protections of a Human being...
A fetus is or is not a Human Being... Once it is given standing as a Human Being then Homicide of it should be individual justified in a court of law...
Like I said many times, its a messy topic. A fetus is clearly a human being. But if it has no consciousness then there is no person yet. It is still biologically a part of the mother's body and should be hers to maintain or terminate per her will. Not per your will or mine. That is a clear, logical, and moral stance to take on this issue.

We don't simply allow the definitions of words dictate how we treat each other.

Also, in another post you suggested that my logic would allow a mother to murder her kids at age 11 or more. That's silly. I never said anything to that effect and I find the idea repugnant. Once a child is born it is fully invested with all the rights we grant to any other human being.

The point I was making with the other post was to say that there are many facets to the conversation and the correlation of reproductive rights and reduction of poverty and crime is a matter of fact.

When you give people the power to control their own futures it is a net good.

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#112161
Sep 1, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
Why are you linking me to Mormon Apologetics?

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#112162
Sep 1, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
Oh my god, dude. I read through that article. It is a tour-de-force of apologetics. The author makes so many acrobatic mental maneouvers my head is spinning.

He mentions some kind of altar with "NHM" on it in the Old World. Then leads to the possibility that this is in reference to "Nahom" (whatever that is). I assume that's something from the BoM. But why on earth would you make that leap? It is a vague, and very weak idea. And if this is the best you have you are truly desperate.

I also strongly question some of the things this guy says as being factual. I will have to give this a once-over because it reeks of crazy.

In my spare time, that is. And I do NOT have much spare time to debunk Mormon crazy.

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#112163
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do whut wrote:
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Different people. Different times. Different laws.
Of course Moses was against freedom of religion. He freed the Hebrews, who were all worshipers of The Lord. It's not like he freed a diverse set of people mixed with different religious backgrounds. This is not the same as Muslims killing Christians. Im not sure how you see it that way. They didn't invade another territory and wage war.
This was a group that all believed the same, and then decided to change when Moses didn't come back for a while. These were some weak people that were ready to change beliefs to whatever whim hit them next. This is why they could not follow the higher law.
You never fail to blow me away with this line of reasoning.

It is EXACTLY like Muslims murdering Christians! Muslims murder anyone who converts from Islam to Christianity. It is(or was) legal in Afghanistan. Bush had to pressure them not to do it once. No invasion need be part of the reason. It is EXACTLY like Moses murdering those who believed DIFFERENT than he.

They obviously did not all worship the same god. If they did, why worship a calf? Learn some history please. The bull (Taurus) was worshiped back in the old times. People tend to worship what they helped them become a civilization. The bull is the animal man domesticated to help him work the fields. I am sure many of the "chosen people" just adopted the gods of the day. This is what people do. They blindly worship the gods of their peers.
Moses was trying to ensure their was no diversity of religion. He did this by murdering those who were different.
Again, if their was no diversity, then why did Moses murder 3,000 men women and children that day?
The laws of your god then, are wrong for today, and they were wrong for the old days. They were just plain immoral and barbaric.

Now lets address your insane reasoning of why their should be different standards in different times.
People of those days had the same brain as humans do today. Do you disagree with this?
So if they had the same mental capabilities of learning, then why did your god not teach them the same as people being taught today?

Just what teachings could the people back then, not be able to comprehend?
I know your god is a poor teacher, as he does not even know the "teach by example" rule of thumb. But is this why he failed to even try to teach the "Chosen people" the new ways?

I bring up the Moses murders to many people who question why I do not believe in the bible. Most do not even know about the murders. When I enlighten them, they really get taken aback. I will even tell them of the textbook Christian apologetic, the one you cite now. They never see it as a logical or moral reason to kill.
Thus it is an unjustified killing in many persons eyes. It is murder in the eyes of many people.

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#112164
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do whut wrote:
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Wasn't about politics, it was about furthering the church and building Zion in preparation for the return of Jesus Christ. Plural marriage served its purpose at that time and was no longer necessary. Nor do I think the majority could practice it without lust interfering (my opinion).
It isn't that surprising to me that they had to move away from persecution and set up house in the middle of a desert, and still people jacked with them. It's pretty similar to Moses' story. God could have killed all the Egyptians and let the Hebrews stay there and kick their feet up in homes already built. God doesn't have a history of handing things over to the saints with no effort of their own. Again I think it is because they wouldn't appreciate it as much.
Correct, god does not hand anything over to anyone. If your people want a land, they just have to murder the inhabitants themselves. And they did as the bible tells. It is a book justifying the murder of people in a land to clear it for other people of other superstitions.

The practice continued for the next two thousand years after the bible was written.
People learn by example. Now why does your god not know this?

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#112165
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do whut wrote:
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I spent 3 semesters in Chemistry labs too, and had several biology and physics classes too, but that doesn't make me a scientist.
Sorry, but I've seen your interpretations of Bible stories. Remember?
The scriptures were not meant to be confusing and vague. This was the effect of Satan's influence to confuse people and lead God's children astray. Hence the need for a prophet to clarify and rectify.
So the devil made the bible so screwed up? I have not heard this EXCUSE before. Blame the devil for all problems. Thank god for all good things.
It is a pretty good excuse for the leaders to come up with. It gets them off the hook. Brilliant. Unbelievably people still today are falling prey to this line. Really makes me sad for mankind.

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#112166
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do whut wrote:
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Wasn't about politics, it was about furthering the church and building Zion in preparation for the return of Jesus Christ. Plural marriage served its purpose at that time and was no longer necessary. Nor do I think the majority could practice it without lust interfering (my opinion).
It isn't that surprising to me that they had to move away from persecution and set up house in the middle of a desert, and still people jacked with them. It's pretty similar to Moses' story. God could have killed all the Egyptians and let the Hebrews stay there and kick their feet up in homes already built. God doesn't have a history of handing things over to the saints with no effort of their own. Again I think it is because they wouldn't appreciate it as much.
So what god needed (polygamy) was not needed at pretty much the exact same time people demanded polygamy be stopped?
I have been pointing out all along, what is in the bible is simply a story of the standards of the day. As man learns of new ways, he makes new laws. The bible shows this progression, only it attributes all the laws to a god. But our argument is, it is man all along. Men who are leaders, simply claim it was a decision god made.

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#112167
Sep 1, 2013
 
EmpAtheist wrote:
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Although I acknowledge the last part of your message is not going to happen and shouldn't.... I still agree. Lol
I wouldn't actually want that... but I think the world would be a better place as a result. Its just wrong.
Yes, what might be a greater good for society in the end, is not always what is the moral thing to do.
Thus we just need to deal with living in a society with problems to a certain extent.
Utopia cannot exist.

Moses attempted to create a Utopian society by murdering those who worshiped a golden calf in his group. It was not the moral thing to do, but it probably did help the clan be unified in the invasions of new lands.

Living in a free society has its drawbacks, but I will take those risks over being told what I must worship any day.

If I wish to worship a golden calf, well then I should be free to do so. If I chose to worship nothing, I should be free to do so.
America was built upon this very idea.
If the powers that be, tell you what to worship, or even respect one religion over all others, it is in defiance of our constitution. It is in defiance of what grants us this religious freedom.

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do whut wrote:
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Adam was taught the law after building the altar to worship The Lord. This is how there were High Priests in the OT.
Babies did nothing. Their parents were the sinners.
So the moral code of your god is, it is ok to kill the children for sins of the father?
Our laws see this as immoral. It was always immoral.

Ok, so you say the babies did nothing wrong, then please tell us why the god murdered them? You sure skipped right past that main point.

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#112169
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Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So the devil made the bible so screwed up? I have not heard this EXCUSE before. Blame the devil for all problems. Thank god for all good things.
It is a pretty good excuse for the leaders to come up with. It gets them off the hook. Brilliant. Unbelievably people still today are falling prey to this line. Really makes me sad for mankind.
I addressed this in another post too. This is a great example of how you can get absolutely ANYTHING you want to get out of religion, especially if you have a fat book of contradictory stories.

And apologists knock themselves out finding ways to rationalize this stuff. I love how they will appeal to solid reason if solid reason works, but if using reason leads to a result that isn't aligned with the core belief they will drop reason like bad habit and go for the wildest, most insane rationalizations.

"um...uh....the devil did it! yeah, that's it."

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#112170
Sep 1, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
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Haha, seriously?? Read the New Testament again. Then we will talk. Jesus plainly taught what is necessary for salvation. It is not guaranteed for everyone.
So you could not find a single scripture to prove me wrong? Just what I thought would happen.
You interpret the bible one way, I will do it another way. Their are thousands of interpretations of the bible pal. Why? Guess the devil got to it.

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#112171
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Nephilim wrote:
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I always wondered about the golden calf story. Seems like after watching the ten plagues, splitting the sea and everything else, they wouldn't have built a false God and started worshiping it the first time Moses took off for a minute. Kind of makes me think that either they really didn't see those "miracles" or the didn't switch Gods right in the middle of everything.
Now if neither ever happened and it's just a story, that makes a lot of sense. If you saw God part the sea would you worship a golden calf?
And they call us skeptical. The chosen people were supposedly in view of the greatest miracles of mankind, yet still did not buy the story. Yet we are expected to believe based upon the claims of the miracles?
When in fact is it is the claims miracles that make me all the more skeptical. The parts I believe are claims of 3,000 people being murdered over worshiping a golden calf. Now that is textbook dictatorship. Highly plausible.

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#112172
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Quantummist wrote:
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Nope not a moralist in the least, Not a Moral aspect to my position, no religious aspect, no touchy feely poor little children aspect... I am Against Unjustified homicide of Human Beings... I don't think we should kill off large populations to save the planet, We should not go out on the weekend for a night of frolic and shoot people in the head.... I place Human Life above all other life forms... Not for any haughty moral reason, just because I am Human and Humans make the rules... If Dogs made the rules then they would get to say dogs are above all other live forms...
Now I would have Zero argument if the US Justice system through the legal process of constitutional valid law sets a date and say Human Life begins at a specific date certain... Before that abortion would not be homicide and if someone kills a fetus in a DUI crash or by kicking a woman in the belly he would only be charge with a bodily injury, assault or what ever the appropriate charge would be and never charge with Homicide... And all prisoners that are in prison for killing a fetus younger than date set have all charges and sentences dropped and expunged from their records concerning homicide...
Until then I stand by my view that any and all homicides should individual require legal justification before the courts including everyone involved in the conspiracy to commit the homicide, Including financial providers... To me it is no difference that to receive money from someone so you can hire a hit man to kill someone... Under some circumstances that might be deemed Justifiable but should be before the courts on each individual event to be justified...
I know the conservative mind has trouble when it comes to the grey areas. Not all is black and white. It is not easy to write laws in a black and white manner that is not in some way, seemingly contradictory.
What the law of our land states is, persons other than the mother cannot make the choice of aborting pregnancy. Only the mother can justly rule termination. No doctor, no government, no father, no one but the carrier.

So it is not seen as an unjust killing in the case of a mother aborting due to the fact only the mother has the choice. She is bearing the burden of carrying. Thus she has the choice of terminating that process.

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#112173
Sep 1, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
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Not a third God, but part of the Godhead. The Holy Ghost is not the same as the Father. The HG is subject to the Father.
Then you have a different interpretation of what a god is.
Many gods of history were subject to another god. It made them no less a god.

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#112174
Sep 1, 2013
 
do whut wrote:
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I only worship one God. He is the Father of us all, including Jesus Christ. I worship Jesus Christ as well because He is the Son of God and atoned for my sins and made it possible to return to our Father in Heaven. The Holy Ghost I do not worship, but commune with frequently. He is the Spirit that has the responsibilities to witness to all that Jesus is the Son of God and that God lives, as well as confirm gospel truth to us, and comfort us.
Jesus was a spirit before coming to earth and gaining His physical body, just like you and me. One cannot be exalted unless he has a physical body, as Jesus demonstrated. And since all those that are saved will be joint heirs with Christ, it only makes sense that we can be exalted too if we follow all the commandments and repent of our sins.
You misunderstand the last quote. Flesh and bone alone can't enter Heaven, but we all will be resurrected which means we receive our bodies back (glorified). This means our spirit and body can go to Heaven.
You may only worship one of these gods, but they can be seen as multiple gods.

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#112175
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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Since I know God is real... You are the foolish one!
Good luck with that!
You claim to "know" a lot of things, but I doubt most of them.

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Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>No!
The Nasty of the Left, far out weighs the Nasty of the Right...
And WHEN the Right gets nasty... we Purge, you embrace!
That was my point!
Sounds like what any blind partisan might say. I have no faith in your perceptions.

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#112177
Sep 1, 2013
 
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Do you believe in Jesus, and what He did for you?
I believe their might be a man named Jesus. I believe, belief causes actions.

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